|
incorrect it exists purely to let "web developers" gatekeep their nonsense by making GBS threads out Frameworks nobody has heard of "Oh sorry you haven't heard of jizz.js? I guess this is not the company for you, we're pretty cutting edge  "
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 22:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 18:30 |
|
|
if you ignore the server side rendering weirdness I think it's basically just a full stack javascript framework which isn't that weird in itself if you don't want to develop the backend and frontend separately
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
Share Bear posted:i def feel like iterm2 and vim w/ale introduce a ton of input lag on osx iterm2 had double the latency of terminal.app whenever https://danluu.com/term-latency/ was written. try terminal.app
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:34
|
|
|
next is for when you have a ‘back end team’ and a ‘front end team’ and your front end team wants to do things without waiting for the backend team so its for dysfunctional organizations basically so its for p much all organizations basically
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:50
|
|
|
i like next.js server side rendering. its a return to how websites should be. assemble as much as possible on the server and send over mostly finished html. it’s fast.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
I have nothing against server side rendering it just seems weird to me to use something based around react if you want to primarily do that It just seems like the flip side of htmx in terms of being determined to use a certain paradigm even when it doesn't make sense anymore mystes fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:47
|
|
|
lifg posted:i like next.js server side rendering. its a return to how websites should be. assemble as much as possible on the server and send over mostly finished html. it’s fast. i like server side rendering but using js for it is gonna be an lol from me
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 01:11
|
|
|
pokeyman posted:iterm2 had double the latency of terminal.app whenever https://danluu.com/term-latency/ was written. try terminal.app oooh drat thanks
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 01:20
|
|
|
cool av posted:next is for when you have a ‘back end team’ and a ‘front end team’ and your front end team wants to do things without waiting for the backend team it's not bad to use web native languages and markup to make websites, obvs better than blazor or whatever the gently caress that has to compile down into html/css/js anyway. next.js and all the other new ones have features enough to make an orchestration layer/bff without any of the architects and backend devs being aware of what is happening until it is too late (and works correctly for the user of the app).
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
Blazor doesn't compile into html or javascript; it's basically completely equivalent to react and jsx but in dotnet/webassembly rather than javascript (like jsx it uses templates that look like html but the tags actually get compiled into code that instantiates objects in a react-like framework). If you don't like that approach then you shouldn't like react/jsx either. (that said there are still some disadvantages to using wasm, plus as with anything that's not javascript, blazor adds complexity in terms of interfacing with javascript code so I'm not necessary recommending it) Also when you're doing server side rendering it doesn't really make any difference if you're using javascript I don't think there's anything wrong with javascript as a backend language though and it can be convenient to want to use the same language for both frontend and backend but the idea that javascript is a "web native language" and therefore automatically better for backend code than other languages is kind of silly There's nothing that inherently makes javascript better for frontend code either except the fact that it's built into browsers mystes fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:08
|
|
|
Share Bear posted:oooh drat thanks i discovered wezterm recently and oh gently caress is it nice and fast
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:11
|
|
|
FormatAmerica posted:it's not bad to use web native languages and markup to make websites, obvs better than blazor or whatever the gently caress that has to compile down into html/css/js anyway that’s bait
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
MrQueasy posted:Skill issue. drove my coworker mad that i was using vim over ssh on a machine 5000mi away, couldn't understand how i dealt with the lag
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
mystes posted:Blazor doesn't compile into html or javascript; it's basically completely equivalent to react and jsx but in dotnet/webassembly rather than javascript (like jsx it uses templates that look like html but the tags actually get compiled into code that instantiates objects in a react-like framework). If you don't like that approach then you shouldn't like react/jsx either. (that said there are still some disadvantages to using wasm, plus as with anything that's not javascript, blazor adds complexity in terms of interfacing with javascript code so I'm not necessary recommending it) if you do blazor you want to eliminate all javascript cause thats the point. if you're making an application thats not a problem cause you dont need javascript, but if you're making a web application full of ads and lovely javascript then yeah mixing that with blazor doesnt work. it is pretty incredible just how much faster blazor is at rendering dom changes even with loading a whole fuckin CLR in webass.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:42
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:if you do blazor you want to eliminate all javascript cause thats the point. if you're making an application thats not a problem cause you dont need javascript, but if you're making a web application full of ads and lovely javascript then yeah mixing that with blazor doesnt work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:47
|
|
|
just use rust and webasm
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
don't use wasm right now unless you really have to for something specific also using a language other than javascript/typescript for browser stuff will just make your life harder
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:49
|
|
|
mystes posted:The problem is eliminating all javascript code usually isn't really realistic at present because there simply isn't enough stuff available in blazor or whatever and once you need to write wrappers for stuff in another language it tends to quickly offset the advantage of using another language that you prefer theres plenty of stuff available in blazor the problem is you're thinking like a javascript developer as if you actually need fart.js or whatever. just get rid of it
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
mystes posted:don't use wasm right now unless you really have to for something specific who among us doesn't loathe and wish pain upon themselves
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:52
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:theres plenty of stuff available in blazor the problem is you're thinking like a javascript developer as if you actually need fart.js or whatever. just get rid of it there's simply no way native blazor components can compete with what's available in javascript even if you do decide to just not use any components and make everything yourself, that in itself is extra work that you're causing by not using javascript because suddenly when you need anything specific like a calendar control or something that looks/works a certain way, rather than just using a premade one you're going to be spending a bunch of time writing it yourself also, eventually it might be possible to use pure wasm, but right now it always has to go through javascript to interface with stuff. that means that using wasm you currently effectively have to debug two languages rather than one mystes fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 02:58
|
|
|
yeah where will blazer find steaming piles of doodoo
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 03:03
|
|
|
as usual the browser already has these built in rich text editor? contenteditable calendar control? input type=date my "don't reinvent the wheel" t-shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by my shirt
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 03:48
|
|
|
lol if you think you can actually get anything approaching consistent behavior by contenteditable directly
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 03:53
|
|
|
I don't it was a bit (though your users may surprise you!)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:16
|
|
|
Yeah it was bait but even the trap-springers admit that javascript by virtue of being a browser-runtime-compatible language, perhaps native to the thing that you use to browse the web, is better or at the very least more accessible. It is extremely distressing to see dlls loaded in chrome dev tools (good job C# devs) but it also runs like poo poo and is awful to work with so I'm not too worried about it usurping react which is already widely adopted, runs like poo poo and is awful to work with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:28
|
|
|
mystes posted:The problem is eliminating all javascript code usually isn't really realistic at present because there simply isn't enough stuff available in blazor or whatever and once you need to write wrappers for stuff in another language it tends to quickly offset the advantage of using another language that you prefer also this, something like 60% of the js on the web today is jquery - the idea of replacing it all with even other javascript poo poo is crazy. but at the same time hey that's a lot less rope to hang yourself with than a SPA framework. anything that touches C# or java or python? astronomical units of standard library rope available at your closest neighborhood bikeshed. FormatAmerica fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:31
|
|
|
pokeyman posted:as usual the browser already has these built in I plopped a few type=time inputs into the timecard webapp and an extremely senior professor in the Computer Science department opened a ticket to complain that typing "5:30" into the input registered as 5:30 AM and "surely the system is smart enough to know I meant PM??" Being an alumnus of the school and knowing this professor's reputation, it was EXTREMELY satisfying to close the ticket with a "tell it to your browser vendor" lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:51
|
|
|
RokosCockatrice posted:Trying out vscode and compared to the jetbrains ecosystem... oh my god. It's like I've been wandering around in a fog of ~400ms latency for the past two years. I don’t get that kind of input latency in my intellij op, i just tried it now and can’t observe any difference whatsoever between intellij and vscode. gonna say this is pebkac somehow, or maybe you need a better computer?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 09:20
|
|
|
mystes posted:The problem is eliminating all javascript code usually isn't really realistic at present because there simply isn't enough stuff available in blazor or whatever and once you need to write wrappers for stuff in another language it tends to quickly offset the advantage of using another language that you prefer I get what you mean - nobody wants to reimplement drag and drop file uploads etc, but you can probably do it cleanly by putting the js for that into that specific component or something. though I guess then you've got a gross barf of js half way up your DOM or something (I've done worse) does blazor use razor for writing the actual templates? I can remember. I love razor it's great.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 09:38
|
|
|
I've done some stuff in f# using the fable transpiler and if anything id say it has a significantly better JavaScript interop situation then blazor because among other things you can 1) convert typescript to f# bindings automatically to some extent and 2) consume react components directly with pseudo-jsx without needing any bindings at all as long as you don't need to invoke methods It's still a situation where it makes you constantly wonder why you're putting in extra effort to use something other than JavaScript for your frontend code just to make the 10% of your frontend code that's calling your backend simpler at the cost of making the 90% that's doing, you know, frontend poo poo more complicated compared to if you were just using typescript in vite like a normal person That said, I think blazor is going to get more tempting as the ecosystem matures mystes fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 11:48
|
|
|
what other careers are suitable for people with brains that make them stereotypical computer touchers i contemplate the future of terrible programming with deep trepidation
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 11:54
|
|
|
redleader posted:what other careers are suitable for people with brains that make them stereotypical computer touchers
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 11:59
|
|
|
How is it that vlc has never worked from the command line on ubuntu you can start a video with `vlc ./filename`, but it never, ever actually quits afterwards
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 11:59
|
|
|
Use mpv why would you want to use vlc
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 12:32
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:I get what you mean - nobody wants to reimplement drag and drop file uploads etc, but you can probably do it cleanly by putting the js for that into that specific component or something. congrats, you’ve figured out one of the reasons react exists
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 12:38
|
|
|
RokosCockatrice posted:How is it that vlc has never worked from the command line on ubuntu Shot in the dark: Is vlc a snap now? That usually explains why something is broken (see firefox snap)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 13:02
|
|
|
It's never worked. Since as long as I can remember, vlc on ubuntu didn't close correctly (the taskbar always has remnants of the vlc icon), and in some circumstances, in particular when launching from the command line, vlc will refuse to do basic gnome things like close when you press the X in the top right and try to hang your session. Going to give mpv a try. Nothing like hoping the devil you don't know will be better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 13:45
|
|
|
The preponderance of web frameworks is evidence of just how awful browsers are. You don't have people year in and year out trying to write a new layer on top of C++ to make it bearable to work with, and you definitely don't have flocks of people ready to try your new C++ shim because you promise it'll make your lovely job better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 13:53
|
|
|
mpv is pretty good, especially when you tell it to use yt-dlp. Suddenly you can open youtube (and other media site) links in a proper desktop player
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 18:30 |
|
|
RokosCockatrice posted:The preponderance of web frameworks is evidence of just how awful browsers are. You don't have people year in and year out trying to write a new layer on top of C++ to make it bearable to work with, and you definitely don't have flocks of people ready to try your new C++ shim because you promise it'll make your lovely job better. you're right people just write new languages instead lmao
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 14:02
|
|