awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

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Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Shaggar posted:

giving DBAs access to a database is a bad idea.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2018 17:16

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# ¿ Sep 14, 2024 19:51

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

I honestly don't know much about how academia functions, I mostly threw the PhD thing out because if I'm going to go get an undergraduate degree at 32, I want to make sure that I'm getting the most out of it. If a masters is sufficient to unlock the jobs I'm interested in, that's fine.

But really, I think that I'll probably be able to get myself on the right path with a year of dedicated study, making open source contributions in the areas I'm interested in, and being willing to accept positions that pay less than I'm making now.

What it comes down to is: When I started my career, I chose web because it was the most accessible path for a very inexperienced programmer with no college degree. Since then, I've been operating under the assumption that webdev is just the best I'm gonna be able to do (as a terrible programmer with no college degree). But honestly, I'm a great programmer who works very hard and there's no reason for me to limit myself to webdev when I desperately want to do something else.

I shortsell myself ITT as a defensive mechanism because it's easier for me to pretend to not care than it is to care and be wrong. But honestly, I love this poo poo, I am serious about programming, and I don't want to spend my career figuring out how to shoehorn functionality into CRUD apps with developers who just want to clock out at the end of the day and never think about programming again (not that there's anything at all wrong with that, but it's not me).

I didn't know your full situation... but it's actually somewhat similar to my own path about 10 years ago. From your posts you seem overqualified to be just webdev, imho. If you are in the U.S. I don't see why you need to accept less pay to get out of webdev. You really shouldn't have to, unless you're doing p-lang webdev (php or js), but even then, you could spend a few weeks to a month going through a book on C# and apply to a .NET SSE position if you have at least 3+ years of experience. The horrible awfulness of webdev will prepare you for the horrible awfulness of enterprise software dev or whatever. And if you are js or whatever, just get a SSE position that works with node (lmao).

IMHO if you want to go the academia route, don't get a CS degree. Get something like math or physics and then you can basically write your own check as a data science guy since you've already got the programming chops. You just need some rigorous stats classes, and honestly you might be able to get by with just a few stats classes, but IANADS (i am not a data scientist).

I dunno, I'm not even sure you're looking for advice but I went from being a php dev (of 5 years exp.) to a .NET backend lead basically overnight because I spent time outside work getting to know C# and .NET. It was a pay-raise, but I was also horribly underpaid as a webdev (which I think most are?) I would also say don't get discouraged (not that you are) because there are so many options out there for programmers even terrible programmer like me are managing to get those figgies without degrees. I think terrible programming is the one of the most friendly careers for non-degree chaps.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2018 07:36

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

yeah, do this. it's not as hard as you're assuming shoegaze. you won't get most the jobs you apply to in any area, but just start doin' it and itll work out. IMHO you should spend your year looking for a good job that you would want, not studying (I mean, unless thats what you want to do). you seem p smart and competent and just need to shoot the job-getting odds, not get more booksmart

Yeah this was my thought, exactly.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2018 20:12

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

tef posted:

every time i look at a kafka log and i find uuids or keys in the messages i am deeply suspicious

Sorry, excuse my ignorance as I'm a terrible programmer, but isn't uuids/keys going to be how you track your state for event sourcing? I thought kafka was for event sourcing...

# ¿ Jul 23, 2018 05:14

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

lmao why would you want to be prepared for real world work? mechanics learn to fix cars with sticks and stones, right?

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 06:17

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

So, golang has p-lang level error handling. Right now, 75% of my golang code is poo poo like

code:

turd, err := butt.Poop()
if err != nil {
    return nil, err
}

I googled a bit to see if there was a better pattern for error handling, because this seems kinda lovely compared to java or c#. Welp, the articles I found titled "error handling best practices" basically say to do this poo poo I've already been doing.

Seems bad.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 17:02

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

handle ur fuckin errors then

That is the fuckin error handling... unless I want to panic/recover in which case you lose the err completely.

jony neuemonic posted:

i mean, there is something to be said for how explicit it makes everything but it's also boilerplate-y as hell.

Yeah, pretty much. It worsens the snr.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 18:14

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Bloody posted:

ctps:

code:

using System.Linq;
using System.IO;

namespace ConsoleApp1
{
    class Program
    {
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            var a = File.ReadAllLines(@"C:\a.txt");
            var b = File.ReadAllLines(@"C:\b.txt");
            File.WriteAllText(@"C:\c.txt", b.Except(a).Aggregate("", (x, y) => x += y + "\r\n"));
        }
    }
}

there is probably a trivial tool for this, isn't there

cat b.txt >> a.txt

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 18:42

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Peeny Cheez posted:

code:

grep -vxF a.txt b.txt > ur_mom.txt

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 19:16

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Soooooo... CEO sent out an email this morning covering such important topics as:

I think the CEO is willing to take feedback as he doesn't really have experience managing software engineers. I'm currently planning to share links to Netflix cluture and the article on "proper feeding of software engineers", but I really want to just say "we don't need a fuckin babysitter" since as far as I know, myself and the other dev are easily hitting 40 hrs/week and cranking out code. This job is actually the most productive I've ever been in my career, in terms of hours out of the day spent on task vs. browsing forums/twitter/whatever.

what do?

# ¿ Jul 30, 2018 22:17

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Bloody posted:

update resume

I really like this jerb, though... and everything else is set up really well. I guess I'm hoping there's an article out there on "don't babysit your devs" but I think I just have to power through and try to explain the concept to him off the cuff... wish me luck lmao

# ¿ Jul 30, 2018 22:30

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

If anyone is interested in an update, I talked to the CEO. As I suspected, he hasn't ever managed programmers before. He's been a finance bro for his whole career, and it actually started out pretty well but...

I pointed out that successful tech companies like Netflix and Airbnb are actually fairly rules-light, which he seemed honestly surprised at. I also said (thanks to responses here) pointed out the email was basically whip-cracking, which is very demotivating for any employee, but especially for programmers. He also seemed responsive to the notion that you should judge a programmer by his results, regardless of how hard he works.

This could all be blowing smoke up my butt, but what DOES track is that I'm not the one with a target on my back... the other programmer is. According to CEO, he "looks at his phone all the time!" and "takes long lunches". Hilariously, I pointed out that I do the same. His response was, "But I don't SEE you doing those things!"

The other dev is definitely a junior dev, which I've pointed out, and his code is not terrible. (He does need a lot of hand-holding, but we all do as junior devs, imo.) So, I tried to stick up for the poor guy, but for whatever reason the CEO just doesn't like him... which is frustrating because junior dev is a good guy and there's a decent chance that someday someone else will have the target on their back and welp.

So... kind of a mixed bag there.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 03:11

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Luigi Thirty posted:

I wrote an abstract class without wanting to commit harry caray I think I�m no longer a terrible programmer

I think this double qualifies you AS terrible programmer, sorry mate

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 15:00

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

i've tried twice to make my inconsistent type param and variable lettering more consistent and each attempt has covered my project in slurs and MAGAs

perfect description of js with proptypes

# ¿ Aug 1, 2018 14:08

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

why you should define an xsd schema for your xml documents.txt.doc.zip.exe

That has almost nothing to do with why this is horrible.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2018 17:11

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

akadajet posted:

maybe we could offer some pointers

lmao

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 05:22

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

ctps: wtf are these js devs doing with environment variables? wtf is this poo poo? Instead of pulling these values from, ya know, the ENVIRONMENT there's whole layers of plugins at every level of the js/npm/webpack shitshow to handle putting that poo poo on the filesystem and reading them into your react app or whatever. I want to set up all the environment vars in docker-compose and in our CI/CD system but it's not working because poo poo's loving hard-coded in a .env or config file or something. I wanna beat the frontend guy with a trout but I know it's not really his fault this is just js dev.

edit: hahahahaa this is the saddest stupidest thing I've read about js

https://www.npmjs.com/package/dotenv

quote:

Dotenv is a zero-dependency module that loads environment variables from a .env file into process.env. Storing configuration in the environment separate from code is based on The Twelve-Factor App methodology.

Oh wow guys we'll just hard-code these values in a different file and we'll be 12-factor!!! A file is just part of the environment, after all, like birds and trees and beers or whatever.

Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Aug 2, 2018

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 20:43

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

i think you're supposed to use .env for defaults and dev, and then use actual environment variables non locally

fundamentally that's not horrible, idk what your people are doin

direnv is better tho

The current frontend guy's readme says: Put necessary env vars in the appropriate `.env.*` file. Any local variables you don't want committed go in `.env.local`

These .env are absolutely intended to go to source control and be used for prod builds. But near as I can tell from the source code, everything is wired up with dotenv, so setting environment variables on my local env or even in a docker container are just flat ignored and it complains about not having a .env value for that variable. This seems so awful. And I've read 6 articles about webpack now that all say that is how you should do it: "gently caress env, put everything in .env files or pass them as arguments to your webpack calls in package.json"

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 21:15

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

cross posting, please help

i want to communicate with a gadget that uses Wifi Direct. i know ios supports it but how can i use the api??

MultipeerConnectivity only supports other apple devices AFAICT.

did you google it? I found multiple results that discuss using wifi direct in iOS.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2018 19:16

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

AWWNAW posted:

how�s this related to serverless functions? I can�t tell what the gently caress this does from reading that page and I�ve used Kubernetes for a couple years

never mind I had to look at the GitHub repos to see what it does....

I think it's just native support for k8s in google butt platform?

# ¿ Aug 3, 2018 21:53

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Spime Wrangler posted:

if you�re doing first principles simulation then starting with euler�s method for integration is cool but once you get it working don�t even bother with anything less than fourth order Runge Kutta for a solver (�rk4�)

for even more fun times implement an adaptive Runge Kutta algorithm, which own

The only fun I've had with go was writing an ode solver with runge kutta like 5 years ago. I specifically wrote it to be the base of a n-body solver but like all my projects I moved on to something else.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2018 17:19

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Spime Wrangler posted:

I mostly wanted to point out that Euler integration isn�t sufficient for orbit simulations regardless of timestep, which could cause headaches if you weren�t aware.

wait why not?

# ¿ Aug 4, 2018 20:27

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

meanwhile, just saw this on HN:

build you a Rust VM: https://blog.subnetzero.io/post/building-language-vm-part-00/

# ¿ Aug 4, 2018 20:29

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

admittedly react/jsx/html, which i'm not very comfortable with in general, and rust, where the bad experience is not because of vscode.

but about 3 hours ago i discovered zen mode in vscode and i've been really enjoying it.

wait are you talking about Visual Studio 2017 or Visual Studio Code? These are completely different things and at first it sounded like you were talking about vs2017

# ¿ Aug 5, 2018 06:53

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Mahatma Goonsay posted:

0^X,1^Y,D(13,10)^#,DO{X<10000 X^Z_D(13,10)^#,X+Y^X,Z^Y}

lmao what is this, perl?

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 21:17

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

anthonypants posted:

no it's MAGIC, like they said

http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-meditech-magic-385.html

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 21:29

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

agh whhhhhhyy

there are better ways!

lmao They're using jruby, i.e. lovely ruby running on top of lovely jvm. It's like getting on a big fat diesel bus that takes a half-hour to get to your destination that is 5 mins away on foot.

My first evar terrible programming job was managing an ETL process using perl scripts. I was importing multi-GB tag-delimited (NOT xml) text files into MS SQL Server 2000. I still love perl even though it's p-lang af because I barely knew programming but could still grind through 4 or 5 GB of text in mere seconds and I felt powerful.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2018 18:40

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Tankakern posted:

if i were your boss and found out you were janitoring white space for a week, i'd fire you

terrible programming: janitoring white space for a week

aka

python programming

# ¿ Aug 9, 2018 23:44

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

c j/tp s: we have a new analyst joining our team so my dbt pet project will actually be useful since following the best practices has me lay our data model out in small, easily comprehensible and naturally connected chunks.

it's nice so far - our dwh architect of course instantly scoffed at everything (macros? just type it out in script lol; variables and functions? pentaho does all that better; etc), but he can go sniff his rear end with negatory snark about learning new tech since that's a major component of my job duties and since he still, 9 months in, is absolutely baffled by and unable to perform such complex devops manipulations as "ssh into centos box and type htop to see ram use or cat a config file in known path to check the variables" (decade of professional it experience)

I've never heard of dbt before. From the basic docs you just write some selects and it generates a data model for those selects? But then you can iteratively add select statements as you go? Hmm, sounds like magic (like ORM) and therefore bad, but it sounds potentially better than manually fiddling with db schema or liquibase or whatever.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 18:39

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

it was mentioned by a fellow thread poster a few pages back first, so i'm toying with it. right now i agree that it is like the T bit in ETL.

the actual tech, basically, is Jinja-SQL compiler with some (havent experimented yet) schema testing capacity. since i work with analytics stuff, this is pretty good poo poo for our use case at least since isntead of writing like 2000 sloc sql script with a dozen levels deep subqueries you just lay poo poo down in a logical sequence, write basic validation tests for intermediate steps, and then you can just populate a schema on dwh with it or use it somewhere else. i really like the ability to abstract things like names and values into configs - we have a case where the same database can look differently in two different places, and i can just cross compile the script batches with different targets and provide people with wrokings cripts for everything

tl;dr in my current understanding (2 hours of work) its nothing complicated, magial, or grountbreaking. sql with jinja syntax sugar and barebones schema testing framework. my primary usecase for it is a presentable and explainable sql that can be easily replicated afterwards, since schemas are dime a dozen and representing some recursive garbage just in a bunch of straightforward selects is real nice when you need to deal with people who are not necessarily very strong in sql, or familiar with your data model, or have time and energy needed to traverse the atlass shrugged of sql scripts

That makes sense. My real problem (I'm just realizing) is that I don't know anything about data warehousing. Explaining dbt as the "T" in ETL clears things up a lot, though.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 18:51

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

it's an intermediate T, standard E from your current database, and L into a single schema in that same database. that's a single dbt project encapsulated, so it's basically something not too technical people (analysts who write sql) can decently start with to get something going on in your data lake

Yeah the dbt docs keep referring to "analysts" and I'm like wtf is that

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 18:59

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Mahatma Goonsay posted:

oh yeah the old one is definitely more optimized. someone in another group ran some tests on it and now my director is all worried. what is funny is that i brought the same thing up a couple months ago and it just got hand waved away. oh well

I hope they referred to your concerns as "premature optimization"

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 19:46

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

in other news i'm am learning so much from this emulator101 tutorial it's crazy. i keep having big eureka moments and i've only finished the disassembler.

everyone should go learn a bit of assembly

Does that assembly game count? The one with different locks you have to program your way into. I can't remember the name of it now.

e: oh here it is: https://microcorruption.com/

# ¿ Aug 11, 2018 17:58

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

NihilCredo posted:

(btw, at one point TAoUT literally shows a test that defines a mock, tells the mock what a certain method should return, then asserts that the method returns that value. no non-mock code appears in the test at all.)

Sounds great! I want my codebase to have 110% coverage!

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 20:23

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

floatman posted:

I'm amazed at the other pl thread that actually has the embarrassment of riches to actually argue about what type of unit tests is good, while here I am struggling for scraps with this pos test suite that takes 9 hours to run, but don't worry guys we got, "ideas to fix them!"

I literally just saw a test that performed a bunch of loving asserts, then the last line of the test was markTestSkipped(). When I comment out the last line it's actually a passing test. What the gently caress was that Dev on when it was marked as skipped I want some of that too to ease my pain

it could be (or was) a flappy test. Did you run it again? Flappy tests (tests that alternatively succeed and fail) can be really hard to debug if your test fixtures were engineered badly.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2018 00:47

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Sorry for double post, but I'm finishing up this talk on Rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFM8vw3pbU

It's Bryan Cantrill, a joyent guy, and he kinda rambles all over the place but he used Rust for a few weeks and thinks it's cool.

Rust content starts at: 1:00:30

His discussion of the fight over npm shrinkwrap is kinda funny (at 1:11-ish)

# ¿ Aug 14, 2018 00:54

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

wow gitlab is just way better than bitbucket

I disagree. Gitlab's UI is consistently hard to read. It definitely has more features than bitbucket, but the bitbucket UI doesn't give me eyestrain trying to find the button or link that I need to do a thing. I dunno, part of my bias could be the fact that the bulk of my gitlab experience has been from the on prem gitlab our Russian contractors are using. Everything is English, but drat it's hard to look at compared to bitbucket or github.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2018 20:21

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

What's a good random side project for RUST? I've been blanking on this for like 24 hours, now.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 15:13

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Bloody posted:

I blanked on it for a year then saw an excuse to use it at work

Hmm... maybe I should replace our python script that spins up infrastructure repos for drone with a RUST executable.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 15:18

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# ¿ Sep 14, 2024 19:51

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Symbolic Butt posted:

this is me reading this:

# ¿ Aug 16, 2018 16:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

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