awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

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Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

like I said, it's either really good or really bad depending on how you look at it

can you explain how you should be looking at it for this to be considered 'good'?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 09:29

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# ¿ Sep 11, 2024 15:00

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

ah, the Ultimate Extensibility pattern.

it's a nice pattern that disallows:
* database optimizations
* any kind of sharding
* intellisense
* refactoring your code

good

i look forward to your horror novel

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 10:50

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

c'mon I have some standards

i thought i'd never say this but mongodb these days isn't half-bad

i mean, i'd still just use postgres, but it isn't the clown car that it used to be (i guess since the acquisition of wiredtiger)

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 12:33

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

'can you please add field X to the orders table'
'uh, sure let me just load/save all the rows of xml we have instead of just running ALTER TABLE like a sane person'

no it's great, xml

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 13:41

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

and let me guess
all of this is because someone at some point said 'it's going to be way too cumbersome to manually define the fields in our crud screens'

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 13:58

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

when i was still doing c# i fell into that trap as well

i feel your pain, friend

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 14:35

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

brap posted:

javascript haters like to say that js doesn't even have a standard library,

wow, next thing you'll be telling us is you can even do magical things like reading files from disk in js

# ¿ Oct 28, 2018 00:16

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

edit: do people still use knockout?

i don't think so

true story, i wrote the knockout.mapping plugin because i was naively attempting the same thing you're trying to do. e.g. have a big page with tons of dynamic/nested fields, users can edit them at will and just hit a big 'save' button (or 'revert' button since I'm also keeping the original state :allears:

).

it sometimes worked but was a) slow as balls and b) incredibly complicated to keep working whenever asp.net mvc decided to update how its data binding worked

# ¿ Oct 31, 2018 14:26

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

what gets me about the binding in .net mvc is that it should be perfectly capable of handling lists without continuous element names and should be capable of handling child elements as generic lists instead of requiring a name that traces all the way back to the parent (so just list[0].Id etc not parent[0].child[0].what[0]. The[0].gently caress[0].list[0].id) but instead the default helper functions generate masses of nested refs

what helped me the most was at some point to just start defining proper REST APIs for all our business logic. i found this a pain to start with but it's genuinely easier to maintain in the long run since you're doing smaller (hopefully well-isolated) api calls instead of having bespoke controller methods for *every* *single* *page* in your application

it also makes it easier to expose this api and even to script parts of your app for devops work

# ¿ Oct 31, 2018 15:17

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

it's an awesome book

# ¿ Oct 31, 2018 19:39

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

also the solid gold excuse of "idk why the system is slow, must be a bad query plan" which you can use whenever because nobody really understands the query planner (ask me about throwing the hail Mary of redeclaring inputs to stop param sniffing)

to be fair we've been bitten by oracle randomly deciding to throw away perfectly good query plans and replacing them by poo poo ones, thereby removing any performance from our order process

this was with sprocs (and bizarre pragma-style 'optimizer hints')

# ¿ Nov 1, 2018 11:57

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

for one, if you don't have a date you don't know whether dst was in effect or not

# ¿ Nov 8, 2018 08:35

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Zaxxon posted:

nobody is ever happy with search

"why is this unstructured data not providing me with automatic insights and organization?"

# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 17:00

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

ShartPoint

# ¿ Nov 14, 2018 22:35

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

brap posted:

pretty much any line of business app in c# or java depends profoundly on reflection to do serialization so at a minimum look forward to twiddling the set of attributes on your model classes. not that this is a bad thing.

well ACTUALLY libraries on the java side are moving away from reflection more and more, to do things at compiletime instead. Jackson has the afterburner module for instance, and there are frameworks popping up such as micronaut.

also anything in the Android space basically limits reflection as much as possible

# ¿ Nov 16, 2018 19:28

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

the whole notion that css and html are "different concerns" is just insane to me
this whole idea of BEM and everything around it is manual busywork that finally (seems to be) addressed by web components

interested to see how "the frontend community" will mess up those, though

# ¿ Nov 22, 2018 11:57

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

the css zen garden always seemed more like a 'party trick' to me then something actually useful

i mean, i think they also wanted to argue that css and html were 'separate concerns', but then in order for it to work you'd have to author your html in a VERY SPECIFIC WAY to make it work with the css: the structure of your html is dictated by the limitations of css, so they are not separate at all

# ¿ Nov 22, 2018 17:36

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

scala is not acceptable

it had some promise at some point, when akka was still kind of relevant. ironically this was when akka (developed by a company called typesafe) didn't, in fact, have typesafe actors

# ¿ Nov 26, 2018 23:13

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Maximum Leader posted:

i have a basic parent/child relationship in a database where i need to perform a basic join, problem is that the database is turbofucked by horrible decisions. the parent has fields parent/child relationship 1 through 12 containing a reference to the child instead of just putting the reference to the parent on the child. im at a loss with this, any advice guys?

code:

select * from children c where c.id in (select p.child1, p.child2, p.child3, p.child4, p.child5 from parent p where p.id = parent_id)

~declarative~

# ¿ Nov 28, 2018 11:49

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

what tends to trip me up with c++ are all the subtle details you need to know that aren't warned about at all (at least when I was using msvc 5 years ago)

like, when you don't have a constructor it will autogenerate not 1 but 5 different ones for you. if you write one constructor yourself, well....better also write the 4 other ones because if you don't then things will behave subtly incorrectly at some point later in your program, etc

# ¿ Dec 2, 2018 09:57

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

compiling my entire java backend application is still faster than whatever insanity webpack needs to do to compile half a dozen js files

# ¿ Dec 6, 2018 00:07

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

what the hell, out of the box spring will even crash your application at startup it it can't connect to the database

you need to go out of your way to not do that

# ¿ Dec 8, 2018 17:11

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

well perhaps it's because tools like docker and ubuntu have actually taken the time to be, you know, end-user friendly by providing things that seem alien to some opensource fans like "friendly documentation" and "relatively clear error messages"

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 17:28

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Finster Dexter posted:

Honestly, this probably accounts for a lot of its popularity.

exactly

so instead of whining about people not making the best technology choices maybe they should be enticed to choose them instead of snarkily assuming that "nobody cares"

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 19:01

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

FormatAmerica posted:

Serious answer: project scaffolding

it seems to me like scaffolding is pretty terrible, actually. It's basically the wheel reinvention of something like Maven's archetypes: you vomit huge amounts of boilerplate into a bunch of files and then say "look! easy setup!". now let's hope you never need to update the project structure again because the scaffolding tool will probably not be able to handle it.

instead, try to have sane defaults that are easy to tweak so the default configuration is very succinct, which is a conclusion our friendly frontend devs have finally seem to have latched on to.

of course they didn't land on this before having a detour to the land of fallacies called "we'll have no configuration at all!!!", but still

# ¿ Jan 2, 2019 14:19

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

testing integrations with your persistence layers is a difficult and frustrating problem, imo. i have yet to discover a method of unit testing sql queries that gives me full confidence that they'll perform the way i want.

why not just spin up a docker container containing postgres (or whatever you use), run your migrations against it and unit test all your queries? then the rest of the code can just run with whatever fake in-memory repository you use, but at least you know that a) your migration work and b) your queries are valid

# ¿ Jan 10, 2019 21:23

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Sapozhnik posted:

but hopefully that first thing gets fixed asap because "download poo poo from random open-internet urls on first startup" is not a deployment model and you'd think the docker-humpers in move-fast-and-break-stuff land would appreciate that

what do you expect? it's being designed by the same people that thought nodejs was a worthwhile endeavour

and, like all frontend developers, they've decided to not learn anything from past mistakes or from other languages. instead, they're going to poorly reinvent the wheel, yet again.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2019 17:29

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

rls going stable shook my faith in rust a good deal

agreed. that made very little sense, a bit like "we're giving up, let's just call it stable and be done with it"

# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 23:13

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Beamed posted:

the dev responsible said he just wanted a way for more people to start trying it, which.. man. i dunno. do they even use it?

here is his reasoning. I don't know if people use it. I certainly don't, not because I don't want to but because it's unusably broken

at least the intellij plugin is written by someone who understands how to write a language plugin, simply because it wasn't his first attempt

# ¿ Feb 6, 2019 08:03

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

yes just reply all and explain how the junior dev is trying to clear up sales rep's mess

if your organization does not understand that, then sever

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 08:32

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

so Travis got acquired last month and their new owners promptly fired all senior engineers

recommendations for another free-for-open-source ci platform wanted! I just want to build some Java application from a github repo that does a bit of docker for integration testing (not sure how that would work if the build itself takes place within a container, i mean)

any suggestions?

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 23:34

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

yes but which one can you actively recommend as being somewhat easy to setup/manage and not-flaky

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 23:39

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

"Ooh, we had such a lovely honeymoon on {C65C4E6B-7D7A-4F38-8305-0D4C90776202}"

# ¿ Mar 19, 2019 20:00

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

I love me some IntelliJ but it's a pretty glitchy program. after every update the first project I open will open a window but then just sit there. restarting IntelliJ solves that... :iiam:

# ¿ Mar 29, 2019 08:03

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

I'd recommend you just try to do stuff that's interesting to you and then do that really well.

In my experience (with admittedly half-decent technical interviewers) it's an assumption in IT that you'll always have to learn new things *anyway*, so this is just part of the job. If you're incapable of taking a job using a technology that you haven't used yet, you're a bad programmer. If, however, you can show that you're eager to learn then that's going to be your way in. Also, counterpoint if this comes up in an interview: anything they can put in their "must have experience with" list is going to be obsolete in 2 years time anyway, so you need to have these learnin' skills regardless.

disclaimer: ymmv, 2 cents, etc

# ¿ Apr 3, 2019 08:27

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

ah yes, the developer who is "obsessed with performance" and will happily write a bunch of horrible code to make everything more efficient

you end up with just the horrible code

# ¿ Apr 3, 2019 15:07

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

akadajet posted:

angular 7 works just fine

can confirm

of course its not on the fifth backwards-incompatible version of its router, like react, so i guess it makes people worry about their job security or some such

# ¿ Apr 4, 2019 08:04

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

hot take: state management in react is in fact terrible and redux and hooks are quite literally golang levels of bad

# ¿ Apr 4, 2019 08:07

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

ah, Knockout! I've built the mapping plugin for that. It was terrible

but i still think it was the best thing available at that point in time (arguably better than all the 'let's just do a diff' approaches that happened afterwards)

# ¿ Apr 5, 2019 12:00

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# ¿ Sep 11, 2024 15:00

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

be sure to avoid picking anything boring (i.e. stable) like Angular and choose something that involves tons of options and development time wiring everything together

it's much more fun than actually writing your boring crud screens

# ¿ Apr 8, 2019 15:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: it's like working with a gazillion juniors instead of one giant testicle

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