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NiceGuy
Dec 13, 2006

This is my BOOMSTICK

College Slice

Craptacular! posted:

I know it doesnít vibe with the Sympathize With The Woman Always motto thatís in fashion, but Iíll go ahead and admit I have greater skepticism for white women accusing black men of victimizing them, if you can admit the whole point of that testimony had very little to do with whether Bonds knowingly took The Clear and a lot more to do with ruining his public image.

It doesn't matter what the point or objective was if it's loving true. And judging by what's on the record with Sun Bonds, who btw is decidedly not white apparently quite white, aww gee shucks I'm just not willing to give Barry the benefit of the doubt on this one, no matter how many times he smiles in spring training.

Thanks for justifying all my posting in this thread, though.

NiceGuy fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Aug 19, 2018

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Eegah!
Jul 26, 2010




NiceGuy posted:

It doesn't matter what the point or objective was if it's loving true. And judging by what's on the record with Sun Bonds, who btw is decidedly not white, aww gee shucks I'm just not willing to give Barry the benefit of the doubt on this one, no matter how many times he smiles in spring training.

Thanks for justifying all my posting in this thread, though.

There's a lot to take apart with his post, but calling a Swedish woman not white is a weird one.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

It's how her species communicates



It's ok to not like Barry Bonds. And I do not like Barry Bonds.

NiceGuy
Dec 13, 2006

This is my BOOMSTICK

College Slice

Whoops, my mistake! Her last name and complexion made me think otherwise! Itís still a dumb point.

Edit: although Iíd love to hear what youíd Ďtake apartí from what I said other than that error though :allears:

NiceGuy fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 19, 2018

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005
Ask me about my SAS erotic fan fiction

Barrold Bonds was one of if not the best contact hitters to ever play the sport, he juiced to maintain elite power late into life, beat his wife, got unfair treatment from the media due to being a successful black athlete, and I hate his stupid face and little earring.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Doltos posted:

Barrold Bonds was one of if not the best contact hitters to ever play the sport, he juiced to maintain elite power late into life, beat his wife, got unfair treatment from the media due to being a successful black athlete, and he was cool as gently caress other than the whole domestic violence thing, which almost certainly makes him A Bad Person.

Eegah!
Jul 26, 2010




I think at the end of the day its such an unproductive waste to scold everyone who ever admires a problematic person's achievements because everything in our current society is unbelievably problematic and exploitative. Culture is downwind of power, so constantly keeping track of and updating your enjoyments based off of how problematic it is isn't going to change anything. I think just about everyone who admires Bonds does it with the acknowledgement that he was a piece of poo poo.

Remember, every famous person you like is awful. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/19/us/asia-argento-assault-jimmy-bennett.html

NiceGuy
Dec 13, 2006

This is my BOOMSTICK

College Slice

Eegah! posted:

I think at the end of the day its such an unproductive waste to scold everyone who ever admires a problematic person's achievements because everything in our current society is unbelievably problematic and exploitative.

Everything is bad so don't criticize bad stuff? That sure is a thought.

Eegah! posted:

Culture is downwind of power, so constantly keeping track of and updating your enjoyments based off of how problematic it is isn't going to change anything.

I'm not, and neither is anyone else who brings it up. It's just gross when Addison Russell's name draws cringes but Sir Barrold gets the god treatment :shrug:

Eegah! posted:

I think just about everyone who admires Bonds does it with the acknowledgement that he was a piece of poo poo.

You'd be forgiven for ignoring Craptastic!'s posts on most occasions but it's pretty obvious you're ignoring it here because it doesn't play to your point (spoiler: bitches be lyinnnn I mean right guys?)


Nah that's just how terrible people rationalize the equally awful world we live in.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause


but you participate in society how interesting

Kirios
Jan 25, 2010





Teemu Pokemon posted:

but you participate in society how interesting

Whoa, are you an intellectual?!

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



Popete posted:

Yeah I'm not sure I buy into it just being statistical outliers when you're talking about multiple guys hitting 60+ homeruns. It's just not a thing you see happen anymore or before that time.

For the record I don't have strong opinions about the steroid players, they definitely don't deserve as much ire as they have drawn and the league clearly thew them under the bus.

In this line of thinking, the reason we pay so much attention to what happened during the PED era is probably just the raw, and out of context, numbers of home runs.

If earlier eras of baseball had 162 game seasons, we'd have a lot more 60+ HR seasons.

Hack Wilson (56 in '30)
Jimmie Foxx (58 in '32) - he hit 5 HR across the final 5 games of the season
Hank Greenburg (58 in '38)
Ralph Kiner (54 in '49)

So it [airquote]could[/airquote] have happened 3 times in a decade in the '30s if they had more games.

Kiner and Wilson would have been tough to pull-off but, in addition to the extra games, you have to consider that extra games also would mean more stress on pitchers so it's possible their HR pace would have improved.

Expansion pitching is a real thing and you can see it when you look at what happened in the late '70s. It usually comes with inflated batting stats. That doesn't make anybody innocent but it does mean that a whole lot of players who were hitting 50+ HR around the turn off the century weren't just getting extra help in the gym - pitching was bad and just getting hot during a few games a year in Mile High Stadium/Coors field could go a long way.

Also, notice that a lot of the guys who were hitting home runs in the high 50s or low 60s were in batter friendly environments:
Griffey, JR, in the Kingdome
Sosa in Chicago
McGwire was in the NL Central
ARod in New York/AL East
Ortiz in Boston/AL East
Brady Anderson in Baltimore/AL East
Thome in Cleveland

The only outlier, by park factors, I can really find are Greg Vaughn and Andruw Jones. Jones was an established 35+ HR hitter and Vaughn had done the same, so I don't think they are outliers in terms of their own home run hitting ceilings. You can probably find plenty of guys who had a season where their peak HR season was roughly ~20% higher than their average.

Like I said, it doesn't make anyone more or less guilty of doing something wrong, I just think people put way too much emphasis on the PEDs. Especially since players had been using PEDs since the 60s, that we know of.

HOTLANTA MAN
Jul 4, 2010

by Hand Knit


Lipstick Apathy

Y'all are still forgetting the Barry Bonds couldn't even throw out Sid Bream from shallow left

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

He shouldn't have had to, those worthless scrubs Doug Drabek and Stan Belinda blew that game

vincentpricesboner
Sep 3, 2006

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


tadashi posted:


Expansion pitching is a real thing and you can see it when you look at what happened in the late '70s. It usually comes with inflated batting stats. That doesn't make anybody innocent but it does mean that a whole lot of players who were hitting 50+ HR around the turn off the century weren't just getting extra help in the gym - pitching was bad and just getting hot during a few games a year in Mile High Stadium/Coors field could go a long way.

Like I said, it doesn't make anyone more or less guilty of doing something wrong, I just think people put way too much emphasis on the PEDs. Especially since players had been using PEDs since the 60s, that we know of.

On the other hand steroids have a clear statistically ability to increase both strength gains and decrease recovery times. Both are those help with being able to swing a bat fast and to stay on the field during a long season. The question isn't "Do PEDs help guys hit home runs?", (they obviously do) its "Do PEDs help a guy hit 1% more home runs, or 25%, or somewhere inbetween?"

fawning deference
Jul 4, 2018



tadashi posted:

That's what I'm saying. Brady Anderson wasn't a scrub. Dean Palmer was smaller (by weight but the same height) than he was and he had multiple 35+ HR seasons during that span.

If I'm not mistaken, 1996 is one of the years that baseball writers love to unpack when they're short on ideas just because it's so packed with "Can you believe this guy did this?" moments. Terry Steinbach hit 36 HR after being a 10-15 guy his whole career. 1996 marked a career high in HR for a bunch of players and a lot of players were in their peak seasons for HR. It's a really fun year to fall down the rabbit hole for.

I remember the Rockies' lineup that year being so insane. Ellis Burks had an absurd season which he never came remotely near again. Dante Bichette, Todd Helton, Larry Walker, Vinny Castilla.

Ken Caminiti had a similarly amazing season which he never approached again.

SilvergunSuperman
Aug 6, 2010
RAPE APOLOGIST


Ginette Reno posted:

I'm torn on how much steroids help because on the one hand only Bonds did what Bonds did so clearly that wasn't all or even mostly steroids but on the other you've got people like Greg Vaughn and Brady Anderson having 50 home run seasons. So what the hell

I mistook him for Gregg Zaun and my mind shattered for a sec.

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Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

The more you temper a stick, the stronger it becomes

Fun Shoe

SilvergunSuperman posted:

I mistook him for Gregg Zaun and my mind shattered for a sec.

Gregg Zaun is a great baseball name though

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