I formalized my counterproposal to Malatora: a proper Draconic Nation State

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DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

https://dancefighterredux.wordpress.com/2018/07/29/against-malatora-and-towards-a-draconic-post-human-future/

This thread is for the general discussion of my ongoing blog and twitter centered project to create a virtual society of dragons in the future. The primary blog post I have linked to is the central component of this explication, and handles issues of similarity to Malatora while simultaneously criticizing it as a concept and revealing its untenability.

I've made use of all the current hot alt-right theory: Deleuze, Land, Moldbug, Evola. Some references to Cioran and Nietzsche and Kierkegaard to make sure there's a bit of class. Lot's of jokes. People like jokes, right? Some self-deprecation... it's good. Read it.

Executive Summary:

The concept of Malatora is very poorly defined, and in practice would lead to a collapse, preferably bloodless but conceivably very violent. This is a result of an incoherent mixture of positive and negative rights, combined with a "duty to revolution" and a general non-monopoly on the use of force to preserve the incoherent mixture of positive and negative rights. Additionally, Malatoran values are poorly selected for and we find some of them, notably democracy and equality, very disagreeable.

In contrast, I lay out some properties of my own ideal draconic society in a very top-down, structurally oriented sense. This hypothetical society is envisioned in a post-scarcity, virtualized environment, where all consciousness exists in computer simulations, and ancestor simulations are extant. The first principle is the minimization of superfluous consent. By this is meant, whenever it is possible to engage in positive mutual action that would verifiably be agreeable to both parties, explicit agreement should be unnecessary, and therefore minimized. While I do not recognize equality as an inherent value, neither do I value inequality for its own sake: therefore, I outline some possible risks to an equal field of competition, which I view as necessary for the maintenance of a strong and meritocratic society. These risks are, principally, the emergence of permanent and intractable ressentiment among a certain class of persons in ancestor simulations, occurring due to their permanent past-tense deprivation of an ability to participate in history (rendered permanent precisely by their entry into post-scarcity virtual environments), and due to the deprivation of possibility of character-establishing action that accompanies insertion into an environment where no actions have tangible cost.

The second major risk I outline is the possibility that the iterative growth of computing speed, combined with inequality, will lead to different growth rates of capital, leading to intractable inequality on a scale never before known to man, and consequent social problems. I propose tentative solutions to both issues. The first solution, which I suggest should be universally implemented in all virtual environments, is a kind of inverse growth rate layering, in which those in lower classes should exist in the fastest running simulations, those in intermediate classes in slower running simulations, and those in upper classes in the slowest running simulations. The fact that iterative improvement in computer technology should lead to progressively increasing access to time for everyone is argued as an offsetting factor in this arrangement, as is the general social value of the arrangement. The second solution I propose, which I suggest implementing only at the level of my own preferred virtual environment, is a form of semi-random reincarnation for those who would provably be unhappy, in a Millesian sense, living immortal lives as their present selves.

Hypothetical required technologies and their implications are explicated. Executable level encryption is argued for, for defensive purposes, as is some sort of blockchain-derived accounting method to help ensure outsiders can audit the system to ensure compliance with normative values (like the non-use of torture, and especially infinite torture), but without allowing outsiders to potentially access or alter the system. Various failsafes are discussed which are based on the effective distribution of cryptographic secrets, and possibilities stemming from retrocausal-compatible models of quantum physics are discussed.

An brief argument is presented, the conclusion of which is that all major applications of force should be the result of automated decisions that are inalterable by any sentient actor and intrinsic to a given virtual environment. To account for the possibility of such a system leading to suboptimal results, freedom of movement between virtual environments is emphasized, as well as freedom to create new virtual environments. Use of force considerations are briefly mulled over before I realize I don't actually know enough presently to make the case for any particular implementation.

Lastly, I expound upon my own value system and what kind of virtual environment I would like to see. This is where I propose reincarnation, both as a method of addressing ressentiment and a way of fairly distributing access to social capital, despite the fact that social rank is generally zero-sum (exceptions to this are briefly discussed but rejected as too limited to rebuke the need for reincarnation). Since some citizens would be immortal, this introduces certain potential problems, which are solved by a system of ranked segregation into different, separate simulations within the virtual environment. Conditions and means of transfer between layers of the simulation are briefly described. The overall government structure is given, with the majority of governance taking place at the highest, Tier 3 of society, but with local albeit largely ceremonial governments existing at Tier 2 and Tier 1, which double as training and education centers for those on the path to upward transfer.

DrowningInDreams fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Aug 5, 2018

# ? Jul 30, 2018 00:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 25, 2024 09:16

Mr. Creakle: Apr 27, 2007; Protecting your virginity

I wonder whatever happened to Taygon and his merry band of hermaphroditic robo-yiffers

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:34

friendly 2 da void: Mar 23, 2018

deleuze was an ultra left-of-the-left type thinker, has he really gotten appropriated by the alt-right? smh

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:36

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

friendly 2 da void posted:

deleuze was an ultra left-of-the-left type thinker, has he really gotten appropriated by the alt-right? smh

Why not? They appropriated Foucault.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:38

Dean of Swing: Feb 22, 2012

The mecha-dragon penis is shaped like a wizards hat, allowing it to scoop out the seed of inferior dragons when smashing the cervix.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:39

Old Story: Jun 2, 2006; Oven Wrangler

this is indecipherable. What the gently caress! Am I retarded

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:49

Old Story: Jun 2, 2006; Oven Wrangler

it seems like there's a lot of reading you have to do previous to this, and I'm never going to read any of it

now the Hardy Boys,

# ? Jul 30, 2018 01:54

The Dennis System: Aug 4, 2014; Nothing in Jurassic World is natural, we have always filled gaps in the genome with the DNA of other animals. And if the genetic code was pure, many of them would look quite different. But you didn't ask for reality, you asked for more teeth.

I don't understand a single word of the OP. I guess I'm hilariously out of touch.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 02:24

Blue Train: Jun 17, 2012

I wish peter thiel would die

# ? Jul 30, 2018 02:32

gleebster: Dec 16, 2006; Only a howler; Pillbug

The Dennis System posted:

I don't understand a single word of the OP. I guess I'm hilariously out of touch.

Come on, I bet you understand "made". Otherwise, :same:

# ? Jul 30, 2018 02:35

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

gently caress off gurf

# ? Jul 30, 2018 02:51

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

let it mellow posted:

gently caress off gurf

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:00

ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD: Jan 21, 2007

*autistic screeching*

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:01

Odd: Dec 30, 2006; I think everybody just needs to maybe cool out a little maybe

DrowningInDreams posted:

?

I agree, I'm not clicking any links so how about the abstract, OP? You piece of poo poo

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:02

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

Odd posted:

I agree, I'm not clicking any links so how about the abstract, OP? You piece of poo poo

Ok, give me a few minutes to summarize and edit it into the OP.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:03

Odd: Dec 30, 2006; I think everybody just needs to maybe cool out a little maybe

DrowningInDreams posted:

Ok, give me a few minutes to summarize and edit it into the OP.

You better, rear end in a top hat

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:05

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

DrowningInDreams posted:

?

gently caress off gurf

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:27

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

quote the funny parts you piece of poo poo

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:29

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

let it mellow posted:

gently caress off gurf

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:31

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

your friend a dog posted:

quote the funny parts you piece of poo poo

Oh shut up. FFS, this is a website of bums.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:32

Dean of Swing: Feb 22, 2012

SCROTO TURBOSPERG posted:

*autistic screeching*

This is how Malatora announces the arrival of foreign dignitaries.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 03:47

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

That�s a lot of words to say �I�m retarded�

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:11

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

dads friend steve posted:

That�s a lot of words to say �I�m retarded�

Thank you for your contribution to my thread

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:13

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

DrowningInDreams posted:

Oh shut up. FFS, this is a website of bums.

you loving retard

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:18

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

come in ehre with your piece of poo poo link and half baked semi-paragraph of bullshit and nothing else and you want respect? suck my drat dick you bitch man

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:19

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

your friend a dog posted:

come in ehre with your piece of poo poo link and half baked semi-paragraph of bullshit and nothing else and you want respect? suck my drat dick you bitch man

I had actually expected people to, you know. Read it. Make jokes. Denigrate me on the basis of my writing. That sort of thing. Not to be utterly belligerent about being asked to read.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:21

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

quote:

The second major risk I outline is the possibility that the iterative growth of computing speed, combined with inequality, will lead to different growth rates of capital, leading to intractable inequality on a scale never before known to man, and consequent social problems. I propose tentative solutions to both issues. The first solution, which I suggest should be universally implemented in all virtual environments, is a kind of inverse growth rate layering, in which those in lower classes should exist in the fastest running simulations, those in intermediate classes in slower running simulations, and those in upper classes in the slowest running simulations. The fact that iterative improvement in computer technology should lead to progressively increasing access to time for everyone is argued as an offsetting factor in this arrangement, as is the general social value of the arrangement. The second solution I propose, which I suggest implementing only at the level of my own preferred virtual environment, is a form of semi-random reincarnation for those who would provably be unhappy, in a Millesian sense, living immortal lives as their present selves.

It�s like inverse bitcoin mining where the richest mine the slowest and the poorest have to use more computing cycles to mine more but they�re still poor?? Or maybe I�m retarded??

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:21

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

DrowningInDreams posted:

I had actually expected people to, you know. Read it. Make jokes. Denigrate me on the basis of my writing. That sort of thing. Not to be utterly belligerent about being asked to read.

im going to loving kill you dude. im going to tear you apart with my bare hands and then gouge out my own drat eyeballs before i read soemthing you cant even bother to quote parts out of. gently caress! gently caress you!!

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:22

PantsandCola: Aug 17, 2013; you did good... you did good

whoa whoa whats going on here

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:22

DrowningInDreams: Mar 13, 2009; Dilettante lizard

dads friend steve posted:

It�s like inverse bitcoin mining where the richest mine the slowest and the poorest have to use more computing cycles to mine more but they�re still poor?? Or maybe I�m retarded??

This is basically correct. Thank you for reading. The idea is that this would be the fastest way out of poverty. Of course, in this context, we are probably thinking of poverty in terms of ability and social capital, rather than material capital.

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:23

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

DrowningInDreams posted:

This is basically correct. Thank you for reading. The idea is that this would be the fastest way out of poverty. Of course, in this context, we are probably thinking of poverty in terms of ability and social capital, rather than material capital.

qUOTE teh drat PARTS bitch!!

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:25

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:26

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

DrowningInDreams posted:

This is basically correct. Thank you for reading. The idea is that this would be the fastest way out of poverty. Of course, in this context, we are probably thinking of poverty in terms of ability and social capital, rather than material capital.

Cool except for the part where the rich and powerful give themselves the slowest simulations instead of the fastest and also where they allow themselves to randomly reincarnate as poors against all previous documented behavior of the rich and powerful

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:33

The Dennis System: Aug 4, 2014; Nothing in Jurassic World is natural, we have always filled gaps in the genome with the DNA of other animals. And if the genetic code was pure, many of them would look quite different. But you didn't ask for reality, you asked for more teeth.

DrowningInDreams posted:

https://dancefighterredux.wordpress.com/2018/07/29/against-malatora-and-towards-a-draconic-post-human-future/

I've made use of all the current hot alt-right theory: Deleuze, Land, Moldbug, Evola. Some references to Cioran and Nietzsche and Kierkegaard to make sure there's a bit of class. Lot's of jokes. People like jokes, right? Some self-deprecation... it's good. Read it.

Executive Summary:

The concept of Malatora is very poorly defined, and in practice would lead to a collapse, preferably bloodless but conceivably very violent. This is a result of an incoherent mixture of positive and negative rights, combined with a "duty to revolution" and a general non-monopoly on the use of force to preserve the incoherent mixture of positive and negative rights. Additionally, Malatoran values are poorly selected for and we find some of them, notably democracy and equality, very disagreeable.

In contrast, I lay out some properties of my own ideal draconic society in a very top-down, structurally oriented sense. This hypothetical society is envisioned in a post-scarcity, virtualized environment, where all consciousness exists in computer simulations, and ancestor simulations are extant. The first principle is the minimization of superfluous consent. By this is meant, whenever it is possible to engage in positive mutual action that would verifiably be agreeable to both parties, explicit agreement should be unnecessary, and therefore minimized. While I do not recognize equality as an inherent value, neither do I value inequality for its own sake: therefore, I outline some possible risks to an equal field of competition, which I view as necessary for the maintenance of a strong and meritocratic society. These risks are, principally, the emergence of permanent and intractable ressentiment among a certain class of persons in ancestor simulations, occurring due to their permanent past-tense deprivation of an ability to participate in history (rendered permanent precisely by their entry into post-scarcity virtual environments), and due to the deprivation of possibility of character-establishing action that accompanies insertion into an environment where no actions have tangible cost.

The second major risk I outline is the possibility that the iterative growth of computing speed, combined with inequality, will lead to different growth rates of capital, leading to intractable inequality on a scale never before known to man, and consequent social problems. I propose tentative solutions to both issues. The first solution, which I suggest should be universally implemented in all virtual environments, is a kind of inverse growth rate layering, in which those in lower classes should exist in the fastest running simulations, those in intermediate classes in slower running simulations, and those in upper classes in the slowest running simulations. The fact that iterative improvement in computer technology should lead to progressively increasing access to time for everyone is argued as an offsetting factor in this arrangement, as is the general social value of the arrangement. The second solution I propose, which I suggest implementing only at the level of my own preferred virtual environment, is a form of semi-random reincarnation for those who would provably be unhappy, in a Millesian sense, living immortal lives as their present selves.

Hypothetical required technologies and their implications are explicated. Executable level encryption is argued for, for defensive purposes, as is some sort of blockchain-derived accounting method to help ensure outsiders can audit the system to ensure compliance with normative values (like the non-use of torture, and especially infinite torture), but without allowing outsiders to potentially access or alter the system. Various failsafes are discussed which are based on the effective distribution of cryptographic secrets, and possibilities stemming from retrocausal-compatible models of quantum physics are discussed.

An brief argument is presented, the conclusion of which is that all major applications of force should be the result of automated decisions that are inalterable by any sentient actor and intrinsic to a given virtual environment. To account for the possibility of such a system leading to suboptimal results, freedom of movement between virtual environments is emphasized, as well as freedom to create new virtual environments. Use of force considerations are briefly mulled over before I realize I don't actually know enough presently to make the case for any particular implementation.

Lastly, I expound upon my own value system and what kind of virtual environment I would like to see. This is where I propose reincarnation, both as a method of addressing ressentiment and a way of fairly distributing access to social capital, despite the fact that social rank is generally zero-sum (exceptions to this are briefly discussed but rejected as too limited to rebuke the need for reincarnation). Since some citizens would be immortal, this introduces certain potential problems, which are solved by a system of ranked segregation into different, separate simulations within the virtual environment. Conditions and means of transfer between layers of the simulation are briefly described. The overall government structure is given, with the majority of governance taking place at the highest, Tier 3 of society, but with local albeit largely ceremonial governments existing at Tier 2 and Tier 1, which double as training and education centers for those on the path to upward transfer.

Dude, what?

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:34

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

quote:

Lastly, I expound upon my own value system and what kind of virtual environment I would like to see. This is where I propose reincarnation, both as a method of addressing ressentiment and a way of fairly distributing access to social capital, despite the fact that social rank is generally zero-sum (exceptions to this are briefly discussed but rejected as too limited to rebuke the need for reincarnation). Since some citizens would be immortal, this introduces certain potential problems, which are solved by a system of ranked segregation into different, separate simulations within the virtual environment. Conditions and means of transfer between layers of the simulation are briefly described. The overall government structure is given, with the majority of governance taking place at the highest, Tier 3 of society, but with local albeit largely ceremonial governments existing at Tier 2 and Tier 1, which double as training and education centers for those on the path to upward transfer.

�The immortal citizens of tier 3 will surely foster the upward movement of citizens from tiers 1 and 2 to ultimately supplant them�
- A gigantic retard

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:37

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

Why am I responding to this poo poo???!?

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:38

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

Do they have shark week in the post-scarcity future?

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:39

your friend a dog: Nov 2, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

DrowningInDreams posted:

This is basically correct. Thank you for reading. The idea is that this would be the fastest way out of poverty. Of course, in this context, we are probably thinking of poverty in terms of ability and social capital, rather than material capital.

gently caress you! gently caress you you lizard furry bitch! :blastu:

# ? Jul 30, 2018 04:43