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Communist Walrus
Aug 31, 2001

I don't mind taking charity,
From those that I despise.

wolrah posted:

Nacho - Nothing about this series has pointed towards his survival.

He gets name-dropped in the episode of Breaking Bad where Jesse and Walt kidnap Saul (might be his first appearance in the series?) so presumably he survives at least a little ways into the BB timeline.

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Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Communist Walrus posted:

He gets name-dropped in the episode of Breaking Bad where Jesse and Walt kidnap Saul (might be his first appearance in the series?) so presumably he survives at least a little ways into the BB timeline.

That's funny, I don't remember the part where Saul says "Ignacio is alive, he's alive and well!" in the Breaking Bad scene

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Last Chance posted:

That's funny, I don't remember the part where Saul says "Ignacio is alive, he's alive and well!" in the Breaking Bad scene

Yeah, the line is ambiguous enough that both Nacho and Lalo could be out of the picture in whatever way, and maybe Saul just doesn't know.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

He puts the blame for something on Ignacio which it's entirely feasible that he'd do on someone he knows is dead. But really the scene gives us no indication one way or another about Nacho. The only thing it does tell us is that Saul believes Lalo at least could still be alive.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

At least with Jesse, according to word of god, he got to flee to alaska and become a carpenter. el Camino didn't show that far, but as of him driving away at the end of BB that was his intended ending. So at least he'll get to seize some kind of satisfaction. So he didn't lose absolutely everything.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



BioEnchanted posted:

At least with Jesse, according to word of god, he got to flee to alaska and become a carpenter. el Camino didn't show that far, but as of him driving away at the end of BB that was his intended ending. So at least he'll get to seize some kind of satisfaction. So he didn't lose absolutely everything.

It's implied he'll get his "happy ending," but I wouldn't be shocked if they one day revisit Jesse Pinkman for life to poo poo on him once again.

I think the show has some sort of karmic justice for its main characters so I expect Saul and Kim to hit some immoral point of no return next season. I'd love for Jimmy to have a happy ending, but he gets pretty deep into advocating for murder in BB. I'd assume his trauma from the cash run and whatever happens in S6 will seal his fate.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


iamsosmrt posted:

It's implied he'll get his "happy ending," but I wouldn't be shocked if they one day revisit Jesse Pinkman for life to poo poo on him once again.

I think the show has some sort of karmic justice for its main characters so I expect Saul and Kim to hit some immoral point of no return next season. I'd love for Jimmy to have a happy ending, but he gets pretty deep into advocating for murder in BB. I'd assume his trauma from the cash run and whatever happens in S6 will seal his fate.

I'd love to see him go from how he is now, drastically made much darker in the first half of s6, or even beyond that, and then focus on the Gene stuff on the back end to help turn him back from Saul to someone at least resembling Jimmy.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'd love to see him go from how he is now, drastically made much darker in the first half of s6, or even beyond that, and then focus on the Gene stuff on the back end to help turn him back from Saul to someone at least resembling Jimmy.
I really think this is what we're going to get. I think it'd be really sad if BCS just consisted of Jimmy's "fall" and he just ends up as sad sack Gene... or worse. I mean, we already know that ending.

The Gene scenes have to be building to something resembling redemption, or some other kind of transformation, or else why have them?

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Last Chance posted:

I really think this is what we're going to get. I think it'd be really sad if BCS just consisted of Jimmy's "fall" and he just ends up as sad sack Gene... or worse. I mean, we already know that ending.

The Gene scenes have to be building to something resembling redemption, or some other kind of transformation, or else why have them?

I kind of wish there were going to be 16 episodes in season 6. I love the slow burn, don't want the show to be over (who does?), and really hope they have enough time to properly do everything they want.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



Last Chance posted:

I really think this is what we're going to get. I think it'd be really sad if BCS just consisted of Jimmy's "fall" and he just ends up as sad sack Gene... or worse. I mean, we already know that ending.

The Gene scenes have to be building to something resembling redemption, or some other kind of transformation, or else why have them?

I'm pretty certain they are building to something. It'll be huge in Gene/Jimmy's life but it could be very low key or a huge public thing in his locale.

I'd guess he'll find a way to re-gain some level of his Slippin' Jimmy existence. His story is of a guy who uses his brain to overcome his situation so I wouldn't be shocked if that's essentially where it goes.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



iamsosmrt posted:


I'd guess he'll find a way to re-gain some level of his Slippin' Jimmy existence. His story is of a guy who uses his brain to overcome his situation so I wouldn't be shocked if that's essentially where it goes.

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum

Gene has a bag of diamonds but he also has a bag of Walter White Brand Explosion Crystals

CaptainCaveman
Apr 15, 2005

Always searching for North.


If Kim and Saul get a happy reunion in the Gene era, I hope the scene switches to color once she shows up.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



moist turtleneck posted:

he also has a bag of Walter White Brand Explosion Crystals

Wait, he does?? When did they show that?

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


CaptainCaveman posted:

If Kim and Saul get a happy reunion in the Gene era, I hope the scene switches to color once she shows up.

Yes, this, very much.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Regy Rusty posted:

He puts the blame for something on Ignacio which it's entirely feasible that he'd do on someone he knows is dead. But really the scene gives us no indication one way or another about Nacho. The only thing it does tell us is that Saul believes Lalo at least could still be alive.
Yeah, this is how I interpret that scene. I don't think Jimmy would throw Nacho under the bus if he didn't at least think he was either dead or safe such that it's harmless self defense.

BioEnchanted posted:

At least with Jesse, according to word of god, he got to flee to alaska and become a carpenter. el Camino didn't show that far, but as of him driving away at the end of BB that was his intended ending. So at least he'll get to seize some kind of satisfaction. So he didn't lose absolutely everything.
What I meant by that is he lost pretty much everything that was his life previous to the events of Breaking Bad. The house shenanigans presumably torpedoed what was left of his relationship with his family, his girlfriends all died, and the only person he cares about he can't interact with in any way.

Likewise for Skyler and Walt Jr. Their family has been torn apart, they've lost their home, their assets, their friends, etc.

Marie's really the only one who doesn't have to totally rebuild her life, presumably she'd be well covered by life insurance, pension, and the like, but she still loses her husband and her relationship with her closest family that seems to make up most of her social life.

CaptainCaveman posted:

If Kim and Saul get a happy reunion in the Gene era, I hope the scene switches to color once she shows up.
I don't care if it'd be sappy and silly I'd be happy to see this.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



wolrah posted:

Yeah, this is how I interpret that scene. I don't think Jimmy would throw Nacho under the bus if he didn't at least think he was either dead or safe such that it's harmless self defense.

What I meant by that is he lost pretty much everything that was his life previous to the events of Breaking Bad. The house shenanigans presumably torpedoed what was left of his relationship with his family, his girlfriends all died, and the only person he cares about he can't interact with in any way.

Likewise for Skyler and Walt Jr. Their family has been torn apart, they've lost their home, their assets, their friends, etc.

Marie's really the only one who doesn't have to totally rebuild her life, presumably she'd be well covered by life insurance, pension, and the like, but she still loses her husband and her relationship with her closest family that seems to make up most of her social life.

I don't care if it'd be sappy and silly I'd be happy to see this.

Nah you were basically right, except maybe over the semantic accuracy of "everything" but all those main character lost a lot, if not everything.

Marie losing Hank could be the entire basis of an incredibly tragic story in and of itself, I'd say she qualifies for the everything.

The one thing that Jesse, Marie and possibly Gene/Kim have left is hope.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Skinny P is probably in jail after the events of El Camino, right? Hoping that Badger didn't get caught too

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Last Chance posted:

Skinny P is probably in jail after the events of El Camino, right? Hoping that Badger didn't get caught too

I don't think so, I think he probably got picked up but was likely released.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



These are angry cops still hunting down the murderers of beloved local agents. Maybe Skinny Pete got got by the boys in blue.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I don't think so, I think he probably got picked up but was likely released.

I guess Skinny could plead ignorance on knowing where the El Camino actually came from, but for some reason I thought maybe they'd try to get him for helping Jesse escape somehow. Upon thinking about it more, I'm not sure what that would look like if Skinny just said "IDK he just showed up and wanted to trade my car for the other one"

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

wolrah posted:

Yeah, this is how I interpret that scene. I don't think Jimmy would throw Nacho under the bus if he didn't at least think he was either dead or safe such that it's harmless self defense.

What I meant by that is he lost pretty much everything that was his life previous to the events of Breaking Bad. The house shenanigans presumably torpedoed what was left of his relationship with his family, his girlfriends all died, and the only person he cares about he can't interact with in any way.

Likewise for Skyler and Walt Jr. Their family has been torn apart, they've lost their home, their assets, their friends, etc.

Marie's really the only one who doesn't have to totally rebuild her life, presumably she'd be well covered by life insurance, pension, and the like, but she still loses her husband and her relationship with her closest family that seems to make up most of her social life.

I don't care if it'd be sappy and silly I'd be happy to see this.

I get that nothing is going to end perfectly but even if they meet up, it hits colour, fin would be ok. I just think that jimmy is one of the characters weíve spent the most time with that has the most chance of actually being a good guy in there somewhere, and itíd be nice to see something good for him

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum

The scene I think about more and more is Mike's death and how I want to go out like that telling someone I hate to shut the gently caress up one last time

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!

wolrah posted:

Every main character whose story has ended has died and/or lost everything.


Walt Jr. - Lost everything



Corection! Walt Jr has a sweet-rear end trust fund coming his way courtesy of Grey Matter.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



SolarFire2 posted:

Corection! Walt Jr has a sweet-rear end trust fund coming his way courtesy of Grey Matter.

yes, money will ease his pain. money for the best breakfasts everyday

Last Chance fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 16, 2020

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

iamsosmrt posted:

Wait, he does?? When did they show that?

It was one of the things he threatened the thugs with when he had them strung upside down in the pinata factory.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'd love to see him go from how he is now, drastically made much darker in the first half of s6, or even beyond that, and then focus on the Gene stuff on the back end to help turn him back from Saul to someone at least resembling Jimmy.

It would be weird or at least tricky to have Saul's story end on too big of a bang, it isn't like he's some shriveled husk of a man when we meet him in BB. By all accounts he seems fairly happy/satisfied slumming it up with his dirtbag clients until Walt's Meth MillionsTM lure him deeper into 'the game'.

Agent Escalus
Oct 5, 2002

"I couldn't stop saying aloud how miscast Jim Carrey was!"


wolrah posted:

I had this come up in my youtube recs and figured it was thread relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btJ2255abjQ

Thanks for posting that! It never came up in mine, despite a small history of watching a few good BB/BCS analysis videos. I wish there were more/longer vids, but at the same time I guess there's plenty of similar options out there, sans Mr. Esposito.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

If Gene can (safely) get back with Kim, then why is he such a sad sack during those cold opens?

Yeah, I think he's only in that location because it's probably the only possibility he has of ever seeing her again, even if it's from a distance without her knowing a la the last time Walt sees Jr./Flynn.

CaptainCaveman posted:

If Kim and Saul get a happy reunion in the Gene era, I hope the scene switches to color once she shows up.

Sure, but maybe not fully regular color. It'd probably be a better move creatively for the color to be off or tinted; it keeps in with the use of color and themes of the series, and a good way to send underline the symbolism of "things can never be what they used to be."

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

A Little Known FACT: Burger King's Bacon King is superior to the Baconator.


Expecting or hoping that Jimmy / Saul gets anything resembling a happy ending for the series is probably wishful thinking.

Even though they did give Jessie a nice send off... I also think it's probably highly unlikely he doesn't end up back in the drug / meth business in Alaska... I mean he's good at it, without Walt around to keep making stupid decisions and loving everything up, Jessie could likely do pretty well sling meth in Alaska... New spinoff series!

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

It would be sad, but I could see him selling to loggers or something. As long as he isn't making the blue stuff, he could probably lay low enough.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Expecting or hoping that Jimmy / Saul gets anything resembling a happy ending for the series is probably wishful thinking.

Even though they did give Jessie a nice send off... I also think it's probably highly unlikely he doesn't end up back in the drug / meth business in Alaska... I mean he's good at it, without Walt around to keep making stupid decisions and loving everything up, Jessie could likely do pretty well sling meth in Alaska... New spinoff series!

The thing about TV shows is they always end before the long term consequences of trauma happen. Jessie is hosed for life. We all want a happy ending for our stories but that's what makes them stories. The idea that a person can get over the kind of trauma Jessie has been through and go onto live a happy life is a fairytale. He had substance abuse issues before all this happened. A realistic ending for Jessie is him being an addict rather than a dealer sitting a meth squat blasted out of his mind trying to numb the pain.

Isaacs Alter Ego
Sep 18, 2007
Little hand says its time to rock and roll.



Funky See Funky Do posted:

The thing about TV shows is they always end before the long term consequences of trauma happen. Jessie is hosed for life. We all want a happy ending for our stories but that's what makes them stories. The idea that a person can get over the kind of trauma Jessie has been through and go onto live a happy life is a fairytale. He had substance abuse issues before all this happened. A realistic ending for Jessie is him being an addict rather than a dealer sitting a meth squat blasted out of his mind trying to numb the pain.

Looking at the world like this and thinking that "realistically" no one can ever recover from addiction or trauma and improve their life is a very sad, ultimately incorrect way to view things. There are many stories (real ones) out there of people managing to better their lives with help from others that care. I don't mean to make assumptions but I assume you got this worldview through experience; I hope you or anyone else you know who may have experienced this kind of trauma is able to get the help necessary for recovery, which I promise you does in fact exist and is not a fairy tale.

Apologies as this is off topic a little I just felt it was necessary to bring a little clarity.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

That's not my argument at all. It's not any trauma, it's the specific extreme trauma that Jessie went through. He's going to get the psychiatric care he needs in an isolated Alaskan town? I did not make a blanket statement about trauma or addiction but Jessie's specific circumstances are loving dire and there is little reason to be hopeful for him.

Frankly you're the one projecting there.

Isaacs Alter Ego
Sep 18, 2007
Little hand says its time to rock and roll.



Funky See Funky Do posted:

That's not my argument at all. It's not any trauma, it's the specific extreme trauma that Jessie went through. He's going to get the psychiatric care he needs in an isolated Alaskan town? I did not make a blanket statement about trauma or addiction but Jessie's specific circumstances are loving dire and there is little reason to be hopeful for him.

Frankly you're the one projecting there.

When I read your post it seemed like a blanket statement about trauma/addiction, but I apologize for misinterpreting what you wrote. No offense was meant, I just thought it was helpful to offer something on a more positive note.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

El Camino is a narrative about Jesse overcoming his trauma. Thatís pretty much itís only purpose, since as plenty of people have pointed out, Jesses story could have just ended with him driving away in BB to an uncertain fate.

Yeah itís not realistic that someone gets over something like that on their own, but then itís not generally realistic that most people experience the kind of change that underpins dramatised narratives anyway. El Camino is a whole story of Jesse revisiting old relationships that have shaped him- Mike, skinny Pete and badger, Jane, Todd, Walt, some general druggy low lives, Brock (itís notable brock gets referenced but not Andrea, brock was the more notable character for Jesse anyway) and trying to make sense of them.

The thing that made the Todd abuse so damaging wasnít just the physical pain, it was the dynamic that he was completely owned by Todd, the boundary between what the abuser wants and the abused becoming thin, as the pizza scene shows. Jesse figuratively has to confront this directly when his escape depends on him inhabiting Toddís apartment trying to think like Todd.

But then the movie ends not with Todd, but with a scene with Walt. The point being that Todd wasnít actually the original or most important abuser. The welder guy despite being a Todd collaborator gets dealt with dispassionately in a way that suggests Jesse is just very done with this nonsense.

The scene with Walt has an odd tone, where Walt is at turns condescendingly arrogant, vulnerable and parental. The point is obviously not that he was a ďgood dadĒ but as part of Jesses POV as he realizes that he was ultimately just a guy. Itís like in therapy when the person accepts that their abusive parent wasnít god or the devil, just a kind of lovely dude.

massive spider fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 17, 2020

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Right and the way trauma works in a TV show is that a person does a few symbolic things and then move on with their life. Jessie moves to a small Alaskan town and he gets to start over. I think anyone who has ever moved to try and get away from their problems will tell you that never works. The trauma Jessie has been through would take years of specialized psychiatric care for him to even begin deal with in a way that isn't destructive and where's he going to get that? He's got to be careful going shopping because he's still wanted by multiple agencies and that never goes away. Jessie is going to be alone in his cabin night after night with no friends, no family, no-one to talk to, and the memories of the horrific things he's experienced in the past few years constantly popping into his head. What does he have to help him cope with that?

E: You edited that post while I was writing mine dammit.

Chadzok
Apr 25, 2002



Funky See Funky Do posted:

Right and the way trauma works in a TV show is that a person does a few symbolic things and then move on with their life. Jessie moves to a small Alaskan town and he gets to start over. I think anyone who has ever moved to try and get away from their problems will tell you that never works. The trauma Jessie has been through would take years of specialized psychiatric care for him to even begin deal with in a way that isn't destructive and where's he going to get that? He's got to be careful going shopping because he's still wanted by multiple agencies and that never goes away. Jessie is going to be alone in his cabin night after night with no friends, no family, no-one to talk to, and the memories of the horrific things he's experienced in the past few years constantly popping into his head. What does he have to help him cope with that?

E: You edited that post while I was writing mine dammit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZzlPGnKdU

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Hell, when it was said there isn't a show about dealing with lasting trauma, there is now. Steven Universe Future is a long form mental breakdown for the main character as he tries and fails to deal with the traumas he experience since he was 10 years old. It basically ends with him about to distance himself from his old life while seeing a therapist after things get so bad that he can't ignore them anymore. Notable clip although it contains spoilers for the older series it spins off from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx_3f1Pl5p8

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



massive spider posted:

El Camino is a narrative about Jesse overcoming his trauma. That’s pretty much it’s only purpose, since as plenty of people have pointed out, Jesses story could have just ended with him driving away in BB to an uncertain fate.

Yeah it’s not realistic that someone gets over something like that on their own, but then it’s not generally realistic that most people experience the kind of change that underpins dramatised narratives anyway. El Camino is a whole story of Jesse revisiting old relationships that have shaped him- Mike, skinny Pete and badger, Jane, Todd, Walt, some general druggy low lives, Brock (it’s notable brock gets referenced but not Andrea, brock was the more notable character for Jesse anyway) and trying to make sense of them.

The thing that made the Todd abuse so damaging wasn’t just the physical pain, it was the dynamic that he was completely owned by Todd, the boundary between what the abuser wants and the abused becoming thin, as the pizza scene shows. Jesse figuratively has to confront this directly when his escape depends on him inhabiting Todd’s apartment trying to think like Todd.

But then the movie ends not with Todd, but with a scene with Walt. The point being obviously that Todd wasn’t actually the original or most important abuser. The welder guy despite being a Todd collaborator gets dealt with dispassionately in a way that suggests Jesse is just very done with this nonsense.

The scene with Walt has an odd tone, where Walt is at turns condescendingly arrogant, vulnerable and parental. The point is obviously not that he was a “good dad” but as part of Jesses POV as he realizes that he was ultimately just a guy. It’s like in therapy when the person accepts that their abusive parent wasn’t god or the devil, just a kind of lovely dude.

This is a very good post. you explained some really cool parallels that went over my head while watching el camino a few times.


Funky See Funky Do posted:

Right and the way trauma works in a TV show is that a person does a few symbolic things and then move on with their life. Jessie moves to a small Alaskan town and he gets to start over. I think anyone who has ever moved to try and get away from their problems will tell you that never works. The trauma Jessie has been through would take years of specialized psychiatric care for him to even begin deal with in a way that isn't destructive and where's he going to get that? He's got to be careful going shopping because he's still wanted by multiple agencies and that never goes away. Jessie is going to be alone in his cabin night after night with no friends, no family, no-one to talk to, and the memories of the horrific things he's experienced in the past few years constantly popping into his head. What does he have to help him cope with that?

E: You edited that post while I was writing mine dammit.

I don't really think these posts are at odds with each other. the show + movie ends the story, we don't know what happens afterwards. we see jesse confronting things in el camino and we hope he gets to a better place, but that path for him is hard as gently caress after all the trauma, and like you said he's much more likely to fall back on old habits and things, but the point is that the path to redemption is there. Even if it's a path filled with landmines.

we basically just got an extended scene of jesse escaping in the car at the end of the finale of breaking bad. of course he's headed towards a very uncertain future, but for the time being, he's free from his prisons and that's the first step.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



BioEnchanted posted:

Hell, when it was said there isn't a show about dealing with lasting trauma, there is now. Steven Universe Future

There's also Bojack Horseman

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you broke my grill
Jul 11, 2019



how did Rhea not get an Emmy nomination

https://people.com/tv/emmy-nominati...st-of-nominees/

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