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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Agent Escalus posted:

Word from Vince, there won't be anymore spinoffs either.


Great, sounds like they still have all the creative control, too.

On the other hand, whatever we will see of Kim and Howard WILL BE *IT* so if you ain't happy with how BCS wraps up their arcs, too bad.
But what about SpinONs? New scenes with Kim and Howard are inserted into S6 of BB, Breaking Bad is extended by another 6 seasons, featuring the minutiae of preparing a legal case against the only people from Walt's network they've managed to catch; Huell, Kuby, and Francesca, as well as the side business of getting Bogdan his car wash back.

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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I know it'd be fanservice-y as gently caress, but I'd legitimately love to see even one scene with Marie. If Hank's there, it's not out of the question for her to show up.
The arrival of Hank is telegraphed by a purple item being prominent in the previous scene.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Nail Rat posted:

No, I'm pretty sure it's the same universe as the X-Files, and when Walt drives away screaming at the end of the series, he ends up in that X-Files episode.
BCS has to take place in the X-Files universe, how else do your explain the world turning black and white?

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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DaveKap posted:

Gonna be honest, I usually hate episodes like this episode so it was a drag for me but it was still a fantastic episode so... it's one of those weird things where I know my personal tastes dislike it but my objective tastes are chef kissing it. I definitely did the chef kiss in real life when this camera perspective hit:


Hotline Miami vibes there.
It's GTA. :colbert:

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Peanut Butler posted:

It's my assumption that he took what Kim said both at face value and to heart, and is going to make Nacho drive him down there to get his house in order
Yeah, I didn't really consider any other interpretation than this. No matter how much he believes what Saul is telling him, the right move is pretty much always going to be to act like he accepts it and try to clean house.

Saul told the truth --> This woman's got a point. I don't trust most of the people I'm working with, better try to sort that poo poo out.
Saul is lying but wasn't in on it --> This woman definitely has a point. Someone on my side is responsible, need to sort that poo poo out immediately.
Saul is lying and was in on it --> He still showed up with the money and got me out, so it wasn't Saul's play. Someone is going to great lengths to gently caress me, somehow. Can't kill Saul, then they'll know for sure that I know something's up.

I feel like Lalo is smart enough to consider all those options when Kim is making her case, and realizing that the smartest move is assuming Saul is compromised but not acting immediately on that. The actual valuable knowledge is who is trying to screw him, and he might learn the truth of Saul's involvement when he figures that out, so no need to spend too much time on it now.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Doubtful Guest posted:

Very gripping episode.
I was wondering if Nacho was going to make a move against Lalo - maybe by shooting him after he dropped him off, before the others arrived.
Killing Lalo makes him less useful to Gus, loosens the Salamanca hold on him and may cause the cartel to remove Gus.
Perhaps the title of the finale refers to Nacho - not Saul or Kim?
I was actually considering that, especially because of the way the shot was framed. Pretty sure it'd be a terrible plan though, given that he'd be the #1 suspect, and depending on how fast the twins arrived they might even catch him before he even got back to Albuquerque, after which they'd probably kill anyone with any connection to him.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Karmine posted:

If we can get a new Kaylee we can get a new abuelita.
They need to, to show Gus killing her. This is the scene that establishes that Gus is actually not a good guy.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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TOOT BOOT posted:

My money is on Lalo being entombed in the basement lab.
Breaking Bad is actually the continuation of Lalo's storyline. After his death, his soul jumps into the body of Walter White, bestowing upon him the confidence and drive he needs to rise through the ranks of criminal underworld and eventually take down Gus. Immediately after Gus has been killed, Lalo's ghost makes Walt return to the lab to burn it and his remains, so that he can move on. The remaining seasons follow Walt's self-destruction as his soul is left to deal with the aftermath of Lalo's possession.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I really, truly don't think Kim will die. She might have to be disappeared, but Saul in BB definitely doesn't carry himself as a man who tragically lost someone he deeply loved like a year or two previous. I know Kim wasn't even a character when BB was being written, but they have to (or should) realistically deliver Jimmy to the type of person Saul is in BB, and Kim's death, I feel, gets in the way of that, big time.
Kim runs away with Nacho at the end of S6.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Tender Bender posted:

I love the Jimmy/Kim stuff as usual, but agree with folks saying that the cartel stuff felt like such dead weight. This show is at its weakest when it tries to be Remember Breaking Bad, and a cartel assassin hit squad involving only characters outside the main cast is a weak way to end a season. Lalo's gonna be a terrifying force of nature when he returns to Albuquerque, but we didn't need to spend half of an extra long finale to get him from where he already was to that point.

tl;dr: Gimme Jimmy
I get the "Remember Breaking Bad" criticism - but this was like one of the few episodes of the cartel meth business stuff where it felt like it could stand on its own. Perhaps because Lalo is one of the few characters which they're largely free to do with as they please as long as he's out of the picture by the time BB rolls around. Also because he's just a joy to watch.

That said, spending that much time on it definitely has to mean the Lalo/Nacho situation is gonna be the major focal point of the next season, otherwise it just seems pointless. Speculation: The Sandpiper scam is gonna somehow end with Howard getting killed when he tries to confront Jimmy at exactly the wrong time.

mobby_6kl posted:

Anyway. Good episode but I'm not sure I'm buying Kim's development entirely. She was threatened by a cartel boss in her own home and learned that her husband was almost executed in the desert for a hundred grand, and instead of shaking from the Adrenalin, she wants to destroy Howard now because he's selfish or something? For a moment it looked like she was loving with Jimmy when she got back but looks like they're actually going with it.
She never liked him, and having a near death experience helps people realize what they treasure in life. For Kim, it's scamming rich assholes.

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

The thing is though that unlike the Twins, Lalo is actually cool and fun to watch. The problem is that they wrote in a threat against him that was literally impossible for him to overcome without that threat making an idiot out of itself.
If it had just been three guys with machine guns and the sequence had been the same length I think that these writers could have actually pulled it off. SEVEN guys? No loving way. That's like if Hank and Gomez won the shootout with the Nazis.
Lalo had seven guards, but I think there were only 4 (possibly 5) assassins.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Orange Devil posted:

Imagine only sleeping 1 or 2 hours a night. That's 2 Lalo superpowers now.
1-2 hours a night, 8-9 hours a day.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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oh jay posted:

Wow, my brain totally glazed over that scene.
Based on what people have been missing this season, it seems a lot of people are glazing over Gus scenes.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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stev posted:

This is the real reason he wanted Mike on Madrigal's books. He wanted to beat the curse, and it worked.
In an alternate universe, when Walt first has the discussion with Gus in the Pollos, Gus forces him to take a job as a fry cook to prove to him that he's a trustworthy business partner.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Having the assassin go slowly around the corner instead of using the space even though any idiot would know to maximize the advantages of having a ranged weapon is silly.
Having the assassin leader send two men down the tunnel and then keeping his gun aimed down at the hole when there is no possible way Lalo could come from there without gunfire is egregiously stupid and if you think otherwise you're wrong.
I can sorta live with the first one, as the sloppy work of an underling who expected no resistance at all. The leader though, yeah, they should've done something to make him seem more competent. It's already been established with the tunnel that Lalo was prepared for the eventuality of getting attacked, and that he decided to use it as a way to control where his would-be assassins went. Just take that a little bit further and add a secret door into the bathroom which he could use to get the drop on the leader who had taken up an otherwise unassailable position. An alternative route to your escape tunnel seems like it'd be useful, and it'd underscore the fact that this is Lalo's turf.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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DarklyDreaming posted:

I'm picturing this happening and the only way it could possibly end is with Walt angrily storming out of the place and the series ending with a lot less dead bodies.
Walt gets so mad he ends up coughing himself to death right there. Hank makes an inappropriate joke at Walt's funeral, about also wanting to die at Pollos. No one realizes just how big a bullet they all just dodged.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Sleeveless posted:

Considering that they gave the bell a backstory what are the odds that Beneke Fabricators makes an appearance as one of the early attempts at money laundering, and them backing out after finding Ted untrustworthy puts him in the position of cooking the books the avoid losing his family business.
The actual missing story is Saul's friendship with Danny.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Regy Rusty posted:

A lot of what we see of Saul in BB, especially early on, is him putting on the sleazy act for clients. And honestly he never actually develops a close relationship with any of the main characters on the show, nothing like what he has with Kim in BCS. So there aren't that many opportunities to see what he's like beneath the surface.
Yeah, I feel like you could explain any inconsistencies in characterization with BB being from Walt's perspective. BB Saul was never quite as sleazy as he seems early on, that was just the respectable Judeo-Christian side of Walt trying to convince himself that this guy is the real criminal lowlife - and maybe Saul was playing up that side of himself because he knew it'd work on Walt. Saul is a consummate salesman/scammer, he probably has enough experience dealing with these repressed types to now exactly how to make them feel safe. If it's acting like a clown lawyer to the guy with a stick up his rear end who wants to feel superior to everyone, then he's gonna do it, and he can always turn it down a notch when they've build a business relationship.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Rochallor posted:

Rather than the cartel stuff in general it's the Gus/superlab stuff in particular which feels extraneous. It really seems like a bad idea to bring Gus into the show, at least the way they did it. They establish him as being under the thumb of the big boys down Mexico way, which is the same state he was in at the beginning of Breaking Bad, so there's not much else he can do except be secretly disobedient. Like if they'd had a story about him falling back under the thumb of the cartel, or extricating himself from a different situation we didn't see, there might be a story there. You could probably wring something out of Gus establishing a network or getting in with Madrigal, something which might even require some legal consultation.
I agree with this being the real issue, rather than the cartel stuff in general, though I have a perhaps slightly different view on how to deal with it. BB Gus might have been under the thumb of the cartel, but they were a distant overlord that allowed him quite a lot of freedom as long as he was making them money. Put BCS Gus in a position of absolute subjugation to Hector, a man who doesn't trust Gus and who is right there to keep an eye on him, and you've made Gus a far more vulnerable character - quite distinct from his BB self - even more so because of their personal history. Yes, the story would still be one of getting back at the cartel and taking over, but from a very different position.

I do like the idea of the Madrigal connection getting more play, of Gus using his legitimate business as a cover for activities he doesn't want the cartel to know about, just as much as it's a cover vis-a-vis law enforcement. Admittedly in large parts because I want to see how you approach convincing the most nervous woman in the world to join your criminal empire when you're not even an empire yet.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Lydia's already on board, isn't she?
Yes. I was talking about a hypothetical entirely different Gus storyline, with Lydia being introduced much earlier.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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punk rebel ecks posted:

Would he even need to get a lawyer though?
The truth generally doesn't matter if you say poo poo convincingly enough, and then there's the question of which truth is relevant. The truth of "this is gonna turn into a big hassle" is far more important than whether it's actually true that he's vulnerable to a suit. Obviously the equation would change if Jimmy was dealing with someone higher up the social hierarchy who might want to punish him for daring to speak to his betters like this.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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punk rebel ecks posted:

Like…why would she immediately scream to arrest the Nazi dad? Shouldn’t she understand that Nazi dad would just deny it and the family wouldn’t call the cops?
Because she's a Holocaust survivor and all her traumas are resurfacing? That's what I'm getting from the scene.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Lalo killed Howard for having disrespected the chairman of the Pan-American Mustache Club.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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OctaviusBeaver posted:

The plan felt underwhelming once it's revealed that the magical drug was doing the heavy lifting. At that point give him LSD and it would be just as embarrassing.
Is it magical? It's just concentrated caffeine to get his pupils to dilate like he's on coke, isn't it?

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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precision posted:

yeah it was some kind of amphetamine that isn't tested for. or maybe ketamine.
Doesn't ketamine basically do the exact opposite of what they want, apart from making pupils dilate? Caffeine-sensitivity makes a lot more sense as something that modifies the effect of the drug if the drug is caffeine, or something similar.

OctaviusBeaver posted:

If you can drug him by handing him a damp piece of paper then the rest of the scheme is pointless. Just give him drugs and he'll act weird at the hearing, why bother with the country club and fake bribe? They didn't play on his character flaws like with Chuck or the Mesa Verde guy, they just drugged him so he freaked out. It's a court room super weapon but I predict it will never come up again.

It's not the worst plot point ever, but after 6 episodes of build up it felt like a let down.
The drug alone would've just made him a more high strung/intense version of himself, the actual thing making him freak out was all the priming they had done up to that point. I think it's entirely possible he might have had a freakout even without the drug, the drug just made certain there was no chance he'd cool his jets and get the pictures first before slinging accusations.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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How haggard are the people in your lives? Don't get me wrong, they do look good for their age, but not particularly so.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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CJacobs posted:

Howard kinda sounds like if Patrick Bateman were genuinely sane instead of just pretending to be. That kind of intonation where there is absolutely nothing but vast empty space behind his words and voice as he describes something in depth, except without the part where he runs around screaming and chasing women naked and armed with a chainsaw.
Bateman never hurt anyone, it was all just in his head. Howard might have been the exact same, just fit into a different mold.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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precision posted:

one would think that a sequel to American Psycho starring Mila Kunis and William Shatner would be, at minimum, hilariously misguided, but it's just... boring as hell, basically a Lifetime movie
Apparently the movie they signed up for was another movie entirely, with a more interesting script, but it got rewritten during production because someone got the rights to sell it as American Psycho 2.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Aye Doc posted:

lmao God i forgot it happened loving twice. the people who watch The Boys are some of the worst TV watchers around
These two black dudes are clearly brothers.

Now to explain how people are truly reaching calling the character named Stormfront a racist.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Old Doggy Bastard posted:

Salamanca family funeral shot after Hector realizes Lalo is dead and Gus gives a torture monologue would be nice, all sorts of places a camera doesn't normally go for the camera to go in like the ( empty ) coffin, shots foreshadowing all the Salamanas will soon die.

I was surprised at first about how all the people who died were Lalo's staff and not family. Then it made sense, given we only know Hector had at least two or more brothers, since Lalo and Tuco are cousins and I think he says the twins are as well. Interesting how the only woman Salamanca ever seen, let alone mentioned, is abuela who they kept out of the cartel business. A far prequel, a tragedy about the earlier dynasty of Salamancas how they came to die, could be good if it almost entirely didn't have Hector and thereby explains why he didn't die like his brothers in their very lethal industry. Lalo could reprise, cast younger people for the rest.
The remaining Gus plot of BCS is Gus planning how to take her out.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Old Doggy Bastard posted:

Oh, the actress? That's a shame, though I don't think she would have come back after how good a grandson Tuco was about everything.

I figured Gus just didn't consider her a Salamanca or waited for her to die naturally, out of respect.
Salamanca

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Of course the food is good, it's developed by Germans.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Chadzok posted:

Tbh I don't quite get why Kim thinks they would have "broken up" if she told him Lalo was alive. She would have ditched him if he called off the con? Pretty juvenile, but I guess she sees and is disgusted by that too
She expected Jimmy to break up with her to keep her safe. Instead she ended up breaking up with him to keep everyone else safe.

Both being sort of parallels to Gus deciding not to pursue his romantic interest in the Wine Man.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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InfiniteZero posted:

Howard might disagree.
She knew it was going too far, but Howard wouldn't listen.

precision posted:

i really don't like how giancarlo just turns the swishy slider to maximum in any scene where his sexuality is explicitly at play, and is never like that even a little bit any other time, not even around Lyle. it just, i dunno, it makes me really think "this is a very straight man trying to be gay". you see actors do it all the time.

seriously watch his body language in the wine scene. he's basically on fire
I feel like it makes sense for the character? The show (+BB) seems pretty explicit about him pushing that sort of stuff way down, then pouring a foot of cement on top of it. The last time he let someone into his life, they got their brains blown out.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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UZR IS BULLSHIT posted:

It’s definitely true to life in that this sort of thing seems to not be enforced at all in New Mexico, although by 2008 Saul Goodman would have made quite a few enemies in APD who would jump all over any opportunity they had to harass him 🤔
Saul goads them into loving with him just to feel something.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Nuebot posted:

Just have a shot of Tuco in prison and Skinny Pete be like "Hey, yo, man what're you gonna do when you get out?" and Tuco stare at him for a while, we flash back to a scene not dissimilar to the twins' backstory - only instead of drowning one of them in water it's little Tuco and a pile of meth. And then Tuco's just like "I've got to take care of my Tio!" And credits roll.
Tuco making meth angels as his tio is smiling down on him.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Nail Rat posted:

If Chuck lets Jimmy in thanks to Sandpiper, which he was even working with Jimmy on, I think none of the bad stuff happens and Saul Goodman never exists outside of a joke with Marco. He might slip a bit but it was Chuck telling him that he's never going to be a real lawyer, after he fought tooth and nail for legitimacy while also taking care of his batshit insane rear end in a top hat brother, that made him say gently caress it.

Of course it would be a much less interesting,.much shorter show, and it couldn't lead to BB Saul so...
The scenario where Chuck lets Jimmy be a lawyer at HHM is one where he does it keep Jimmy under his control, now that he has a machine gun. Which is basically a recipe for a more extreme version of what happened on the show, with Jimmy actually getting the "prize" and then having it snatched away while Chuck reveals he never trusted him.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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This was the grossest episode they've ever made. I love cinnamon rolls, but I was about ready to throw up seeing whatever that was.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Nail Rat posted:

If we count BB, Jesse's chemical toilet bath was grosser
No, watching a dude eat a cinnamon roll covered in glue was definitely grosser.

R. Guyovich posted:

i think healy would have done fine with the material and people are reading way too much into the recast, the earlier appearances were more menacing because of the circumstances. now with the shoe on the other foot that changes and so does the performance
Yeah, the original encounter was him getting made with cops right there, while here he's implicitly threatening his mom. Like, Saul might "just" have been the lawyer, but he was involved in some pretty brutal hits, no reason to think he might not be able to call on those connections if needed.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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bawfuls posted:

Have to agree with those speculating we are fully done with ABQ stories now, and it will be Gene the rest of the way.
The Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul scene is going to be them as imaginary family sitting behind Jimmy as he defends himself in court and gets off with community service.

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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

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Panic! At The Tesco posted:

Nah its lame as hell when show creators try to trick reddit or whatever. Just make the show how you want instead of either pandering to or tricking the fans.
The problem with trying to trick Reddit is when it affects the show, like Westworld S2. If Gilligan is making the show he wants and at the same time seeding rumors just to troll people, then that's perfectly fine. The two scenarios basically have nothing to do with each other in terms of outcome.

wizardofloneliness posted:

Yeah, the amount of viewers who are completely unfamiliar with Breaking Bad and are also totally uninterested in googling it has got to be vanishingly small. It doesn’t seem like Gilligan and co. are particularly concerned with that demographic.
Why do you think that? The way the vast majority of people watch any show is vastly different from how goons do. Hell, a lot of the people who watched BB probably can't remember how things went down in that show.

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