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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Gather round children, and let Uncle Cyrano tell you a tale of an earlier time. In the mists of 1994 an assault weapons ban was passed, ushering in a dark age of nation-wide features counts and magazine restrictions. Happily it had a sunset clause, and in 2004 we could once again frolic in fields of bayonet lugs, folding stocks, and cheap 30 rounders.

In the meantime, however. . .



Gun owners came up with all manner of workarounds to continue enjoying the hobby. From rebuilding 20 year old magazines and ingenious repairs to originally-disposable aluminum bodies to realizing that, hey, an AR15 without a flash hider, an A2 stock, and no bayo lug is still pretty much the exact same gun as the ~~banned scary~~ version we saw an entire industry crop around producing "ban compliant" stuff.

Naked muzzles and missing bayo lugs doesn't sound too bad, but some of it got kind of. . . well . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcNS4JdprWc




Post your ban-compliant poo poo! The californians and marylanders in the crowd can play along with the stuff they're getting today, but I really want to see all that dumb poo poo gathering dust in the back of your safes. The ban-compliant bushmaster that promptly got forgotten amid the 2004 glut of reasonably priced, full flavor firearms.










fake edit: I know the term "loophole" is divisive. Personally I think this kind of fits because the spirit of the law in 1994 was 100% to keep those evil modern autoloaders out of the hands of civilians and oops it was written like poo poo so we could basically keep doing what we were doing minus bayo lugs and flash hiders. Don't make this a soap box about how a "loophole" is just interpreting the law as written etc.

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Beretta 96G that came with 10-round mags, which obviously made it WAY safer than the original 11-round mags they normally came with.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Everyone knows about AR-15 pistols. But the "loophole" for me is that in Michigan, since the state recognizes it as a pistol, you can carry it loaded in your vehicle on your concealed pistol license. Or even on your person, I suppose. Conventional long guns have to be unloaded and stored in a case inaccessible to the passenger compartment of the vehicle, and ammo has to be stored separately.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 5, 2018

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Going back to the '94 AWB, I have a Colt A2 HBAR upper that is "featureless" - no muzzle device (in fact no threaded barrel at all), and no bayonet lug.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


I have actually sold all my "loophole" guns. I'll try to find some old photos...but looks like the thread is off to a good start.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



infrared35 posted:

Everyone knows about AR-15 pistols. But the "loophole" for me is that in Michigan, since the state recognizes it as a pistol, you can carry it loaded in your vehicle on your concealed pistol license. Or even on your person, I suppose. Conventional long guns have to be unloaded and stored in a case inaccessible to the passenger compartment of the vehicle, and ammo has to be stored separately.



Jesus loving christ that thing

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

Jesus loving christ that thing rules

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Cyrano4747 posted:

Jesus loving christ that thing

A 10.5Ē AR pistol in .300 Blackout with a folding arm brace?

MrBusiness
Jan 19, 2016


I bought a Marlin Model 60 from a private seller at a gun show for $60 and a pre-Model 10 Remington Repeating Shotgun from a yard sale for $100, both without 4473s, so I guess I exploited the, erm, "gun show loophole". Not exactly in the spirit of the thread but it technically counts, so I guess I'm exploiting the loophole gun thread loophole.

Neo Mara
Apr 20, 2005



infrared35 posted:

Beretta 96G that came with 10-round mags,

And to comply with the law everyone made sure to never take those 10 round .40 cal mags and load them up with 12 rounds of 9mm for their 92s

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Neo Mara posted:

And to comply with the law everyone made sure to never take those 10 round .40 cal mags and load them up with 12 rounds of 9mm for their 92s

I love Canada's version of this.

"AR-15s can only use 5-round mags"

What about an AR pistol? Pistols are allowed to have ten-round mags.

"Fine, you can use 10-round AR pistol mags in AR rifles, but they have to be marked as pistol mags!"

How about a ten-round .50 Beowulf AR pistol mag? Can I load that right up with twenty rounds of 5.56?

"Y-yes?"

Neo Mara
Apr 20, 2005



infrared35 posted:

I love Canada's version of this.

"AR-15s can only use 5-round mags"

What about an AR pistol? Pistols are allowed to have ten-round mags.

"Fine, you can use 10-round AR pistol mags in AR rifles, but they have to be marked as pistol mags!"

How about a ten-round .50 Beowulf AR pistol mag? Can I load that right up with twenty rounds of 5.56?

"Y-yes?"

yeah that cracks me up too. Someone can correct me but I think CA's version is a 10 round .458 SOCOM mag is... a 30 round 5.56 mag. In CA I think it would have to be labeled .458 and I don't know if you're allowed to load it up 5.56.. but still cracks me up.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


The closest thing to a loophole gun is a Cooey .22lr that I own. They were never imported so it must have walked across the border way back when.

Which I understand was pretty common back in the day. I used to attend a gun show regularly up by the Canadian border and I'd chat with people. One guy was lamenting the days when he could go up to B.C. for gun shows. Dude was older then dirt, so I suppose he might have been doing it legally. I have no idea when the Canada/US border stopped being a line you could walk guns back and forth across.

In any case the gun shop had no idea how to price it so they slapped $49.99 on it and called it good. I was happy.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene


Fun Shoe

I don't have a loophole gun so much as a single loophole mag from my '94 USP that would have gotten grandfathered in.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Party Plane Jones posted:

I don't have a loophole gun so much as a single loophole mag from my '94 USP that would have gotten grandfathered in.

Oh, man. Those were fun times during the AWB too. My brand new P229 came with two ten-round mags. But I had to have those two more rounds because of my OCD ("that's what the gun was designed to hold!") so I paid a hundred bucks for a pre-ban 12-rounder.

MrBusiness
Jan 19, 2016


infrared35 posted:

Oh, man. Those were fun times during the AWB too. My brand new P229 came with two ten-round mags. But I had to have those two more rounds because of my OCD ("that's what the gun was designed to hold!") so I paid a hundred bucks for a pre-ban 12-rounder.

Wait, did the AWB apply to pistol mags too? It was a little before my time, but that would make sense of the fact that my dad's Browning BDM has ten-round mags while being clearly designed for higher capacity.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene


Fun Shoe

MrBusiness posted:

Wait, did the AWB apply to pistol mags too? It was a little before my time, but that would make sense of the fact that my dad's Browning BDM has ten-round mags while being clearly designed for higher capacity.

Yep; its also why companies like Glock saw the writing on the wall and put mag production into overdrive in order to get under the cutoff date for grandfathering. Then when .40 became the new hot sidearm for police they did trades of guns to PDs so they could get those mags as well. Glock pre-ban/ex-LEO mags went for a large premium and in certain circles still do (its mainly a Massachusetts thing, I think?)

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


I got my SAR-1 (Romanian AKM clone imported by Century Arms, it was the precursor to the WASR line) in January or February 2001 which was prime ban period. Unlike the Egyptian MAADIs and some Norincos of the time it was sold with a traditional AK stock and pistol grip, but it did lack a bayonet lug and threaded muzzle. In 2012 I fixed both of those problems by installing a Romanian gas block (the original was canted so I fixed that at the same time) with the bayolug still intact and then threaded the muzzle with a fancy little pilot that CNC Warrior sold. Now it wears a proper slant brake and I purchased a Romanian bayonet to complete the package

I do kind of want to replace the furniture with some of the beat up Romanian dong furniture set that APEX gets in from time to time. And I've been meaning to replace the stock black pistol grip with the correct brown Romanian grip, it's one of the 922r parts Century used.

Found an old picture of it on my Imgur, along with its Yugoslavian little brother the day I brought it home:



Oh, the picture reminded me, I took the bluing off the bolt carrier a long time ago (I was like... 16? so around 2003ish) because it looks cooler and I also refinished the stock some time around 2011 because the original finish was ugly as poo poo and I was bored.

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet




Ultra Carp

I don't actually own the real loophole gun just a replica of it which has 1 upside, the CSA VZ 61 Skorpian in .22lr (but .32 and .380 versions are available in Canada)




So some background, up here in Canada we have prohibited firearms practically speaking these are banned for civilian ownership. Under the regulations prescribing certain firearms to be prohibited we have this specific wording.

quote:

40 The firearm of the design commonly known as the Skorpion Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

Oh no! isn't that banned Chillyrabbit, better lose it in a boating accident!

Nope! This is specifically classed as a Restricted rifle/Commercial version of the Skorpian SMG/rifle. It has a stock so it can't be the pistol . The SMG/rifle came first so this can't be a variant of the Skorpian auto pistol.

quote:

"- the firearm known as the Czech Small Arms, manufactured Sa VZ.61 Combat is a similar firearm to the Model referenced in PFR, Part 1, para 40. However, PFR, Part 1, para 40 refers to the "pistol" version of the Skorpion whereas the model in this record is the semi-automatic, commercial version (C/V) of the submachine gun (full automatic) Skorpion VZ. 61 and therefore should not be linked to PFR, Part 1, para 40."

Now because of its not a pistol, it also gets around this prohibition (why I don't have the true loophole gun)

A prohibited firearm is also a

quote:

a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;

So a VZ 61 Skorpian that was manufactured to be semi-auto only with the stock, and that fires .32 acp is legal in Canada as it is a rifle

Now because the VZ 61 with a stock is a rifle it only can have 5 round semi-auto center fire magazines, but because it is a "rifle" the rimfire version can have an unlimited magazine capacity.

Just an odd quirk of the Canadian gun control laws.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Hot drat, that thing looks wicked fun.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Doctor Grape Ape posted:

I got my SAR-1 (Romanian AKM clone imported by Century Arms, it was the precursor to the WASR line) in January or February 2001 which was prime ban period. Unlike the Egyptian MAADIs and some Norincos of the time it was sold with a traditional AK stock and pistol grip, but it did lack a bayonet lug and threaded muzzle. In 2012 I fixed both of those problems by installing a Romanian gas block (the original was canted so I fixed that at the same time) with the bayolug still intact and then threaded the muzzle with a fancy little pilot that CNC Warrior sold. Now it wears a proper slant brake and I purchased a Romanian bayonet to complete the package

I do kind of want to replace the furniture with some of the beat up Romanian dong furniture set that APEX gets in from time to time. And I've been meaning to replace the stock black pistol grip with the correct brown Romanian grip, it's one of the 922r parts Century used.

Found an old picture of it on my Imgur, along with its Yugoslavian little brother the day I brought it home:



Oh, the picture reminded me, I took the bluing off the bolt carrier a long time ago (I was like... 16? so around 2003ish) because it looks cooler and I also refinished the stock some time around 2011 because the original finish was ugly as poo poo and I was bored.
I bought a SAR-1 and a SAR-2 around 2000. Better than the WASR but still hit or miss depending on the individual rifle. I've sold them but they were definitely prime ban guns as you said.

The best was all the photos of folding stocks and threaded barrels on AKs the day the AWB sunset on ak-47.net. People were making garage mods on the down low in anticipation. It was such a big deal. A folding stock on a ban gun!

As I recall mags weren't a big deal for some guns like AKs because there was so much old surplus floating around but certain 22LR mags and Glock mags were pricey. Maybe I'm forgetting something but I don't have anything left from those days.

E: Interesting post on that Canadian CZ

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


I don't have anything neat or dumb looking compliance wise for the newer California AWB. Also for all of us that registered with the most recent Assault Weapon Ban: Most of us are still hunkering down and waiting for our mother-may-I permission slips as CA DoJ is taking forever to process them.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Most people own "loophole" guns, it's just how you define "loophole." "Oh, 14.5 inches is too short to be a title I firearm? Guess we better slap an extra inch and a half of barrel on the end of this AR so we can sell it to you." But that's pretty boring, so here's a more interesting one:

Can't import shotguns with pistol grips? Ok, we'll import them with a weird sporter stock and a slightly relocated trigger group. Just go hog wild once it's imported.



Craptacular fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Aug 10, 2018

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Look at that Catamount Fury I keep hearing those things are crap but with some tweaking you can make them work well enough.

Also the "Hunting Shotgun" exception to the Chinese Arms Import Ban is the gift that keeps on giving.
(Might also be hunting rifles in general, but there seems to be a lot of Chinese shotguns out there)

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Aug 12, 2018

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Literally any of the banned rifles in Maryland, you can own in their pistol form.

I really want a 12" FAL pistol

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Literally any of the banned rifles in Maryland, you can own in their pistol form.

I really want a 12" FAL pistol

Do it.

PhotoKirk
Jul 2, 2007

insert witty text here


I'll have to dig up my ugly DR-200 thumbhole stocks.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



PhotoKirk posted:

I'll have to dig up my ugly DR-200 thumbhole stocks.

Yessssss thatís the good stuff.

Anyone have one of those derpy single stack AKs?

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


Cyrano4747 posted:

Yessssss thatís the good stuff.

Anyone have one of those derpy single stack AKs?

Or the pump action ak?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Sixgun Strumpet posted:

Or the pump action ak?

I remember seeing those in pawn shops in Oregon in loving huuuuuuge numbers around 2006. Obviously people were unloading them to buy real AKs with the AWB going away but I've always had a pair of questions.

1) how much did the shops pay for those? They were never being sold dirt cheap, so they must have had at least a little money in them.

2) what ever happened to them? Converted into a real AK? Eventually sold to an idiot? Eventually had the price lowered down into "rusty .22 bolt gun" territory just to move them? Exchanged for gift cards at a buy back?

edit: if I could get one for $200 or less I"d legit love to own an AWB pump AK just for the novelty and as a conversation piece.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Are arm braces for AKs something that exist?
edit: Hmmmm https://www.preppergunshop.com/ci-sb-47-stabilizing-brace-fits-pap-m92-pap-m85pv-draco

PhotoKirk
Jul 2, 2007

insert witty text here


Cyrano4747 posted:

Yessssss thatís the good stuff.

Anyone have one of those derpy single stack AKs?



I have the Ace tube stocks installed on both of them now.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Lol literally everything I own since I'm in CA.

janklow
Sep 28, 2001

whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.


Doctor Grape Ape posted:

I got my SAR-1 (Romanian AKM clone imported by Century Arms, it was the precursor to the WASR line) in January or February 2001 which was prime ban period. Unlike the Egyptian MAADIs and some Norincos of the time it was sold with a traditional AK stock and pistol grip, but it did lack a bayonet lug and threaded muzzle. In 2012 I fixed both of those problems by installing a Romanian gas block (the original was canted so I fixed that at the same time) with the bayolug still intact and then threaded the muzzle with a fancy little pilot that CNC Warrior sold. Now it wears a proper slant brake and I purchased a Romanian bayonet to complete the package
bought an SAR-1 back in 2003 to meet the same federal "loophole" as you.

...then MD passed their 2013 law and i bought an SBR AK and a pistol AK (both Arsenals) to get through THEIR anti-AK loophole.

moral of the story: AWBs make me buy more AKs? also, the SAR-1 might just be the best of all those guns.

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

Purchased around 2003 for less than $300, sold it in 2013 for $900 (Thanks Obama!)



I still use this image to show people this is not an Assault Weapon according to the AWB of 94-04.

Baconroll
Feb 6, 2009


UK Legal double action modern revolver - cap'n'ball (shotgun primer/smokeless powder/wadcutter).



MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


That's pretty fukken sweet

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




I would like to know more.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Yeah, same.

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bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


I want to know where I can get the cylinders. Or something, because I have terrible ideas for that.

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