|
A classic case of everything working out better than expected.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:51 |
|
|
I can't get enough of the Battlegroup flavor https://twitter.com/Lancer_RPG/status/1261690586647556096?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
FWIW early on when Tom and Miguel made COMP/CON official we briefly talked about translation/localization for the book and app. It's something that everyone wants to do but will almost necessitate another kickstarter or similar to get the funds to kick that off. I think a season two is feasible if it's more or less just a second printing with stretch goals for localization and additional expansion content. When that will happen though is totally up in the air, if at all. C/C, at least, is still at least a year away from when I'd want to start looking at localization.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:33
|
|
|
People are talking about baronies stuff, is that being sent out to selected people, or just in general?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:41
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:People are talking about baronies stuff, is that being sent out to selected people, or just in general? If you backed the KS then you should get everything in Season 1 when it's out (whenever that is), otherwise you'll be able to buy it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:42
|
|
|
I did back the KS, so should be able to get it when it comes out! Though I imagine it is going to be a while till I get the book (UK person here). I was more meaning in this thread. I saw folks talking about it and was wondering if there had been copies sent out for folks to read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
What would be the difference between a Season 1 and Season 2 of Lancer? Because the planned S1 releases are staggered in a way that will probably go through several years to end up published, so it is clearly not a season in terms of period of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:I did back the KS, so should be able to get it when it comes out! Though I imagine it is going to be a while till I get the book (UK person here). It's kinda scattered all over, hang on a sec I'll see if I can scrape it together. This is some of the latest stuff about the major Baronic houses, and then this is a WIP of some new mechanics slated to appear in the KTB guide which are basically PbtA-adjacent moves you can get for your character that give you extra sorts of narrative capabilities and permissions. There's no real structured version of what the fully compiled supplement is going to look like, I gather it's being pieced together still. Per Tom, the KTB guide may have a Baronic mech or two (counting as SSC for core bonus purposes, probably) but will also incorporate a thing he's started messing with which is alternate LL2 frames for existing mechs. That's something he's thinking of doing for Wallflower Act 1, so that instead of full blown new mechs there's now going to be like an alternate Genghis frame, an alternate Swallowtail frame, etc. ZearothK posted:What would be the difference between a Season 1 and Season 2 of Lancer? Because the planned S1 releases are staggered in a way that will probably go through several years to end up published, so it is clearly not a season in terms of period of time. Season 2 is theoretically just like "another run of stuff that didn't get done the first time." Obvious possibilities are things like guides for SSC, Horus, and/or IPS-N, maybe some Albatross related stuff, maybe some other stuff entirely, who knows. The one thing that Miguel has mentioned when he's been asked is that his thinking is that a Season 2 would involve pushing the time in setting to the point where Union reinforcements arrive at Cornucopia to assist the defenders against the Aun incursion, and that if he has the chance and time to do so he'd love to do a whole big Great Boundary Garden Campaign that has players on the ground in Cornucopia having to hold out for the years it takes for Union to arrive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:56
|
|
|
it's a subjective season
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
I like that Bonds mechanic a lot and I think the game would greatly benefit from an expansion of the narrative play, even (especially?) in optional modules
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:59
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:I like that Bonds mechanic a lot and I think the game would greatly benefit from an expansion of the narrative play, even (especially?) in optional modules I think that's the idea. Tom is an avowed storygamer, Lancer is a pretty big departure from his usual fare which is stuff like Broken Worlds and GUN, and now that the tactical combat part of Lancer is largely locked down save for adding new toys periodically (mechs, NPCs, etc) it looks like he wants to look at ways of adding new stuff to the narrative side. I know the HA guide is still slated to have rules for being a guy in a base calling in supplies and doing recon, there's been mention of some sort of "running your own faction" mechanics, and then there's the simple thing of just adding new downtime actions like Long Rim did with Gunfight and Deep Dive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
Did pilot combat ever move forward, or will on foot stuff stay strictly storygame?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:It's kinda scattered all over, hang on a sec I'll see if I can scrape it together. Thank you very much indeed! I couldn't find these on the discord easily, so thank you for the link!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:Did pilot combat ever move forward, or will on foot stuff stay strictly storygame? You can fight in mech combat on foot. It's a really bad idea most of the time, but you can.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
spectralent posted:You can fight in mech combat on foot. It's a really bad idea most of the time, but you can. What I mean to say is: I am on foot, those guys are on foot, I want to make them dead, how do I do that? Or is that not really on the scope of a lancer engagement?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:Did pilot combat ever move forward, or will on foot stuff stay strictly storygame? spectralent posted:You can fight in mech combat on foot. It's a really bad idea most of the time, but you can. Yeah beyond what currently exists there've been no mention of plans to expand on-foot tactical combat and I don't think there's an interest in it by the designers. They tried a bunch of times, couldn't make it work the way they wanted, so they just made sure it functioned in some capacity and called it a day. I'm of the opinion that the way to do interesting infantry scale combat in Lancer is through making it its own separate game. You have a hardsuit, a rifle, and some demo charges, your squad has jump packs and a few rocket launchers, your mission is to destroy a single Raleigh, go.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:47
|
|
|
The X-com approach, sort of?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Season 2 is theoretically just like "another run of stuff that didn't get done the first time." Obvious possibilities are things like guides for SSC, Horus, and/or IPS-N, maybe some Albatross related stuff, maybe some other stuff entirely, who knows. SSC and Horus are my favorites, would love to see them fleshed out
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Yeah beyond what currently exists there've been no mention of plans to expand on-foot tactical combat and I don't think there's an interest in it by the designers. They tried a bunch of times, couldn't make it work the way they wanted, so they just made sure it functioned in some capacity and called it a day. I'm of the opinion that the way to do interesting infantry scale combat in Lancer is through making it its own separate game. You have a hardsuit, a rifle, and some demo charges, your squad has jump packs and a few rocket launchers, your mission is to destroy a single Raleigh, go. My thought was a mission in PATROL where, sure, there's mechs and you have to shoot the other guys, but really the issue is that you can't shoot a colonial rebellion to death and your family will be forty years older than you by the time you get back and you're out of cigarettes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
my current project is marrying lancer to stars without number revised. i've considered using the swn combat rules for out-of-mech fights but at the same time i really prefer how core lancer just glosses past that stuff because its not worth the tactical depth that mech combat has. using the sector generation rules to design a slice of space for far field team shenanigans has been great though
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:18
|
|
|
Serf posted:my current project is marrying lancer to stars without number revised. i've considered using the swn combat rules for out-of-mech fights but at the same time i really prefer how core lancer just glosses past that stuff because its not worth the tactical depth that mech combat has. using the sector generation rules to design a slice of space for far field team shenanigans has been great though That reminds me, did you ever finish those colony/base building rules you were messing with?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:
This is super useful since I'm running a Barony campaign presently. One of the downsides of Discord is there can be a ton of stuff you miss if you're not following a particular server religiously.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
Serf posted:my current project is marrying lancer to stars without number revised. i've considered using the swn combat rules for out-of-mech fights but at the same time i really prefer how core lancer just glosses past that stuff because its not worth the tactical depth that mech combat has. using the sector generation rules to design a slice of space for far field team shenanigans has been great though If I wanted some on-foot-level combat I'd probably use Fragged Empire. The crunch level feels very similar to Lancer's.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
The more I think about it, the more the answer to "how do I make these guys dead" in a Lancer game seems to be "make an assault roll or something to break through them, then go get your mech." Which, yeah, this is a mech game. But I'd like a more "formal" option when death is on the line.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:That reminds me, did you ever finish those colony/base building rules you were messing with? no. i found myself unhappy with the core system and aspects of the visual presentation of the colony buildings. i'm going to take another pass at it sometime and see about playtesting them BabelFish posted:If I wanted some on-foot-level combat I'd probably use Fragged Empire. The crunch level feels very similar to Lancer's. aside from my brain's inability to process the fragged rules, more crunch isn't what i wanted. i ran swn for a while and the osr-style combat is pretty lightweight for the most part but even that felt like too much
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 22:10
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:The more I think about it, the more the answer to "how do I make these guys dead" in a Lancer game seems to be "make an assault roll or something to break through them, then go get your mech." Yeah, Assault or Take Someone Out with the intent of "killing a/that dude" you can even do a Raid/Dredd take down a tower block floor by floor or the whole thing with a single roll of heroic difficulty (or normal if that's the tone or level your campaign is at). Super soldier/Mercenary background would even get Accuracy on it while a research scientist would probably not, but it depends on their field, obviously! Like in theory a character in a heavy hardsuit has 2 armour which means anything smaller than a Heavy pilot weapon can't damage them anyway so you get the Legend of the Galactic Heroes Rosenritter assholes just running through a place and anyone with a weapon smaller than a rocket launcher can't do poo poo to them, so a guy with a two handed axe in power armour just rolling 1d20+6 trigger+accuracy to clear out some goons with pistols isn't even that unreasonable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 23:26
|
|
|
Ignite Memories posted:You make me wanna run a lancaster even though it cant do anything fun I'm waiting with baited breath for official art for the IPS-N Kidd, which is apparently evolved from the Lancaster - that should solve the 'anything fun' part of the problem. In my mind's eye it's like a Lancaster combined with a trade federation troop carrier, with racks upon racks of subaltern bot buddies. McKilligan fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
You can absolutely physically have pilots in tactical combat, the game has rules for it, it's just that pilots in tactical combat are not very interesting because all of the cool toys and gizmos are locked to mechs. People wanted Titanfall style combat where pilots could zip around and singlehandedly fight mechs but no way of attempting to try and get there really worked to the designers' satisfactions and so they decided to focus on mechs. You can totally get out of your mech and kill a grunt with your pilot weapon, it's just that doing the "get out and run around as a pilot while my mech acts on AI command" thing is A). not actually all that effective, you're basically increasing your chances of getting splattered for like 2 extra damage a round and B). not all that deep and largely gonna boil down to you going "I move, then I shoot" over and over. I've seen GMs try to do all pilot tactical combats in Lancer going back to early drafts and at no point with no iteration of the rules do I recommend it. It's like playing 4E D&D but all anyone can do is basic attacks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:You can absolutely physically have pilots in tactical combat, the game has rules for it, it's just that pilots in tactical combat are not very interesting because all of the cool toys and gizmos are locked to mechs. People wanted Titanfall style combat where pilots could zip around and singlehandedly fight mechs but no way of attempting to try and get there really worked to the designers' satisfactions and so they decided to focus on mechs. You can totally get out of your mech and kill a grunt with your pilot weapon, it's just that doing the "get out and run around as a pilot while my mech acts on AI command" thing is A). not actually all that effective, you're basically increasing your chances of getting splattered for like 2 extra damage a round and B). not all that deep and largely gonna boil down to you going "I move, then I shoot" over and over. Is there an alternative combat system, like GURPS, that you could hijack and slap into the game for non-mech combat? Granted, it would take the overall focus of the campaign off of mechs, but it might be a fun alternative if the players actually WANTED to storm a building / compound on foot, rather than reduce it to rubble from the seat of their 3 story war machine. Or you could do a kind of fun experiment with soldiers storming a compound while the mechs handle larger threats - 2 separate sessions, but gameplay-wise happening simultaneously. Maybe not exactly gameplay as intended, but you can do whatever you want in life.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
McKilligan posted:Is there an alternative combat system, like GURPS, that you could hijack and slap into the game for non-mech combat? Granted, it would take the overall focus of the campaign off of mechs, but it might be a fun alternative if the players actually WANTED to storm a building / compound on foot, rather than reduce it to rubble from the seat of their 3 story war machine. Like I said earlier, if I wanted to do a real infantry-focused combat system for Lancer my take would be to do it like Battlegroup and have it just be essentially a different game altogether. You could also run it in another currently existing game if you wanted, sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:58
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:The more I think about it, the more the answer to "how do I make these guys dead" in a Lancer game seems to be "make an assault roll or something to break through them, then go get your mech." EthanSteele posted:Yeah, Assault or Take Someone Out with the intent of "killing a/that dude" you can even do a Raid/Dredd take down a tower block floor by floor or the whole thing with a single roll of heroic difficulty (or normal if that's the tone or level your campaign is at). Super soldier/Mercenary background would even get Accuracy on it while a research scientist would probably not, but it depends on their field, obviously! I've basically removed pilot combat in the narrative portions of the games I've run exactly this way and it works (IMO) extremely well (the narrative conceit being they are loving Lancers and if they want someone dead they're gonna make it happen). I roll with skills to take someone out/escape damage and present consequences on bad rolls. I also asked my players to elaborate on their pilot loadouts which kind of helps to fill in what's lost with the pilot gear stats being mostly meaningless -- narratively my veteran sniper player's custom-fabbed railgun "plays" very differently to my spacer outlaw's spider-mine launcher. Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 01:13
|
|
|
Yeah! We've only ever done pilot vs guy fights with skills, having a bunch of humans running around and busting out the map grid for combat without a single mech seems like way too much effort for the Tactical Mech Combat Game. My guy is a super soldier with a big two handed axe and a shoulder mounted thermal lance on his big boy suit, when he Assaults he really goes loud and there's a lot of holes in things, while the hacker with a high powered sniper rifle doing the same is very different narratively despite both of their big weapons being the Heavy Signature.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 01:41
|
|
|
I think for pilot-scale combat sans mecha you could maybe just import a few 4e At Will and Encounter abilities scaled for appropriate damage. Let each character pick a few and flavor as appropriate. I wouldn't personally bother, but 4e is about as good a tactical combat analog as you're going to find.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:I think for pilot-scale combat sans mecha you could maybe just import a few 4e At Will and Encounter abilities scaled for appropriate damage. Let each character pick a few and flavor as appropriate. I agree, basically if you want to have pilot combat be as fun as mech combat then it needs to have some stuff. Right now it doesn't, so it's pretty much a backup plan for if your mech gets trashed. The other thing is using talents like the newly released Black Thumb that let you do things like hang halfway out of your mech and repair it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Like 600 human beings and 20-30 mechs die in a given Attrition match in Titanfall, it only works because it comes with instant respawns; in TTRPGs where folks get attached to their character that's a more difficult sell. I must not be that good at Titanfall because every time I try to do a pilot trick against a Titan I get goosed On the Lancer tactical layer, pilot combat doesn't work so good because humans have only 1 HP track (instead of HP+Heat) and are much more difficult to put back together after eating a 40mm round compared to a robot. I'd be in favor of robust pilot-on-pilot tactical combat if you could have tiny people hop out of the chests of your pilots and run around like the little alien guy inside the big guy in Men in Black 1 and that's a bit of a departure from Lancer's established tone
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 12:49
|
|
|
McKilligan posted:Eyyyy, it's almost the middle of the month! Gonna need a Zaku head to go with that Gundam one
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 20:28
|
|
|
40 Proof Listerine posted:Like 600 human beings and 20-30 mechs die in a given Attrition match in Titanfall, it only works because it comes with instant respawns; in TTRPGs where folks get attached to their character that's a more difficult sell. Let the tiny man in my pilots chest fight a mech
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 21:52
|
|
|
We had an instance where one of my PCs got his mech destroyed by a particularly effective and troublesome unit of dug in infantry. The player got out of his wreck and asked if he could beat the poo poo out of the squad on foot and I said sure why not and he did and it was glorious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
40 Proof Listerine posted:Like 600 human beings and 20-30 mechs die in a given Attrition match in Titanfall, it only works because it comes with instant respawns; in TTRPGs where folks get attached to their character that's a more difficult sell. This isn't anything against you but Titanfall is one of those games where the skill ceiling is astronomically high and the people who are good at it are really fuckin good, and I think that colors the perception of it in a lot of cases.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:51 |
|
|
A bunch of NHPs standing around in mechs having a little human fight ring
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 22:58
|
|
