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Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007




mrlego posted:

Has anyone had experience with internet ammo shipments DROS to local gun stores in the Bay Area? Specifically San Mateo county area?

Is that even worth it, given the extra costs?

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mrlego
Feb 14, 2007

I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.

LGS ammo fees is what I'm trying to understand. If anyone had done an internet ammo order on the peninsula was what I am curious about.

.30 carbine is fairly expensive on the internet already, it's going to be doubly so if I can even find it on shelves in the Bay Area.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So the new roster rules are still letting grandfathered guns go indefinitely so long as the manufacturer does not submit any new models?

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



mrlego posted:

LGS ammo fees is what I'm trying to understand. If anyone had done an internet ammo order on the peninsula was what I am curious about.

.30 carbine is fairly expensive on the internet already, it's going to be doubly so if I can even find it on shelves in the Bay Area.

I haven't had any ammo shipped in to gun stores in the Bay but if you haven't already checked out Bay Area Gun Vault & Eddy's Shooting Sports they both carry a wide variety of calibers and their prices aren't awful. Krausewerk also might have some if they're still in business although I think most places are possibly still closed at the moment. I did get a case of Korean .30 Carbine just last week from SGAmmo during the one afternoon we were allowed to order from anyone though which was nice! lol

mrlego
Feb 14, 2007

I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.

flightless greeb posted:

.... Korean .30 Carbine just last week from SGAmmo during the one afternoon we were allowed to order from anyone though which was nice! lol

That's exactly the ammo I was looking at! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check those places out

ArmyGroup303
Apr 10, 2004

If this were real life, I would have piloted this helicopter with you still in it.

mrlego posted:

Has anyone had experience with internet ammo shipments DROS to local gun stores in the Bay Area? Specifically San Mateo county area?

No, only more Santa Clara County. Rates are OK at the places I've been at (SC Guns) and where I've looked (RMB Enterprises, LC Action).

Henrik Zetterberg posted:

Is that even worth it, given the extra costs?

It's worth it if you:
1) Are willing to drop +$500 on bulk orders.
2) Are trying to get speciality/self-defense ammo that you can't get at local stores.
3) Both reasons above together.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Shaocaholica posted:

So the new roster rules are still letting grandfathered guns go indefinitely so long as the manufacturer does not submit any new models?
If you mean the proposed bill, then no. Whenever any company adds a qualifying model that meets the roster safe handgun standards, then three oldest grandfathered handguns that don't meet those standards are removed.

CA PC 31910(b)(7) from 2020 Bill AB-2847 posted:

The Department of Justice shall, for each semiautomatic pistol newly added to the roster pursuant to Section 32015, remove from the roster exactly three semiautomatic pistols lacking one or more of the applicable features described in paragraphs (4), (5), and (6) of subdivision (b) and added to the roster before July 1, 2022. Notwithstanding those paragraphs, each semiautomatic pistol removed from the roster pursuant to this subdivision shall be considered an unsafe handgun. The Attorney General shall remove semiautomatic pistols from the roster pursuant to this subdivision in reverse order of their dates of addition to the roster, beginning with the semiautomatic pistol added to the roster on the earliest date and continuing until each semiautomatic pistol on the roster includes each of the applicable features described in those paragraphs.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 22:45 on May 1, 2020

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


speaking of specialty ammo, would stores even carry 5.7? Even the shops that used to sell FN fives as a doorbuster

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


BeAuMaN posted:

If you mean the proposed bill, then no. Whenever any company adds a qualifying model that meets the roster safe handgun standards, then three oldest grandfathered handguns that don't meet those standards are removed.

Hmm ok. ‘Don’t nobody add nothin!’

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



mrlego posted:

LGS ammo fees is what I'm trying to understand. If anyone had done an internet ammo order on the peninsula was what I am curious about.

.30 carbine is fairly expensive on the internet already, it's going to be doubly so if I can even find it on shelves in the Bay Area.

If you have a decent relationship with any particular LGS, ask if they can order it for you. Maybe they'll just charge a small fee if you ask nicely enough.

mrlego
Feb 14, 2007

I do not avoid women, but I do deny them my essence.

It's not something I'd ever though of doing but I'll give it a shot.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007

Most of the gear, most of the time


My LGS will do up to 5k rounds for $25 + tax if you're paying cash. That's probably the cheapest way to get a crazy caliber, I figured out it was cheaper to do that than buy .357 Sig from the store when I was looking at getting 1k rounds.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


So regarding the emergency stay motion on Rhode v Becerra (Ammo Background Checks)... on Calguns someone pointed out that at the first of the month the Motions Panel changes, and that's indeed true. They also seemed to indicate that the new Motions Panel handles any unfinished motions (I don't know!).

Let's look at our new Motions Panel for May:

Barry G. Silverman, Clinton Appointee based in Phoenix, AZ
Jacqueline Nguyen, Obama Appointee based in Pasadena, CA
Daniel P Collins, Trump Appointee based in Pasadena, CA

It should be noted that Silverman was on the En Banc Panel in Peruta (ruling that May Issue for Concealed Carry is constitutional iirc)... and he dissented on 2A grounds. Not sure if there's much to go on concerning Collins other than he's a recent Trump appointee. Nguyen was in the majority for Silvester v Harris (ruling saying 10-day waiting period is constitutional). That's just a bit of googling and stuff I vaguely remember.

This looks more favorable than the last group... and if they are indeed handling our motion now, and if you were to treat the judges on those few facts alone it looks like a 2-1 in our favor, but I'm... not jaded enough to think judges aren't that complex and also I prefer to remain cautiously optimistic unless I get disappointed again. Here's hoping they deny Becerra's emergency stay motion though .

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 09:54 on May 2, 2020

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



Collins is a federalist society guy, clerked for Scalia, and was appointed after McConnell stopped honoring blue slips. So while he has no record on guns, everything else lines up for him probably being pro-2A. That panel looks pretty good for us if it's true they'll be the ones deciding it.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Okay, after e-mailing the 9CA Clerk's Office I've reviewed the procedural stuff regarding the Rhode v Becerra injunction stay thing. They referred me to Section 6.4 of 9CA General Orders. Ah ha! So I was looking in the wrong place.

It should be noted that 6.3 covers disposition of Motions generally, however 6.4 covers Emergency Motions specifically.

Anyhow, so 6.4(a)... going to snip a bit to keep it on point, but once again, you can read the full General Orders here. References to a "merits panel" means the panel that will be the ones deciding the appeal itself; holding oral arguments, writing the opinion, etc.

9CA General Orders 6.4 Emergency Motions posted:

(a.) Assignment to Judges
(SNIP)
In cases that are not assigned to a merits panel, either through the usual calendaring process or as a comeback, the motions attorneys will present emergency motions to the motions panel. In the event one or more judges on the motions panel is unavailable, any substitute judge(s) will be drawn by lot.
Presumptively, the current motions panel will decide all emergency motions in which a response is filed within the sitting month, unless the case has already been assigned to a previous motions panel. If the deadline for filing a response to an emergency motion falls within three business days of the end of the month, the motion will be presented to the following month’s motions panel, unless the current month’s motions panel orders otherwise.
The default deadline for filing a response to a motion is 10 days. See FRAP 27(a)(3)
(SNIP)
The part snipped at the end talks about setting custom deadlines. So, AG Becerra filed their Emergency Stay Motion on 4/24/2020. That means the deadline before the end of the sitting month (or rather within 3 business days of it) is past the sitting month in which it was filed, so it gets held over for the next month's panel meaning the slow response is per the 9CA General Orders.

It also states the Motions Panel will presumptively act on Motions with responses within the deadline, so they must allow time for Michel & Associates responding motion (barring custom deadlines on responses). So what about the administrative stay?

9CA General Orders 6.4 Emergency Motions Cont'd posted:

(b.) Actions by Judges
When relief is requested within 48 hours, judges on motions duty may treat an emergency motion as requesting temporary relief until the motions panel can more fully consider the merits of the motion. A single judge may issue an order granting or denying temporary relief, if no other judge on motions duty is available and the order would not effectively dispose of the motion or the appeal. If the order would in effect decide the motion or appeal, the judge must obtain the concurrence of at least one other judge on the motions panel.
(SNIP)
The part snipped after talked about expediting the appeal itself. AG Becerra in his Emergency Stay Motion requested "IMMEDIATE RELIEF", and as that falls within the 48 hour requested relief window, the two of three Motions Panel judges available who answered the motion granted temporary relief until the motion could be further considered.

I don't see any other special orders, so that should mean we do have May's Motion Panel to decide. It also explains the waiting thus far. Hope that helps.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 4, 2020

I Demand Food
Nov 17, 2002


Alan Smithee posted:

speaking of specialty ammo, would stores even carry 5.7? Even the shops that used to sell FN fives as a doorbuster

At least before the 'rona, a lot of the smaller local stores around here carried Federal, SS197R, and even SS198LF, but it's not something I ever saw at Turners or Walmart.

The prices were nearly extortionist, though.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Thanks for looking into that Beauman!

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Yeah np. I know the procedural stuff is kind of dry but I wanted to know why exactly things have been proceeding the way they have. It's all pretty standard apparently.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


I Demand Food posted:

At least before the 'rona, a lot of the smaller local stores around here carried Federal, SS197R, and even SS198LF, but it's not something I ever saw at Turners or Walmart.

The prices were nearly extortionist, though.

speaking of brands, is there anything to know about one or the other? I picked federal cuz I had heard of it

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Per reddit, the AG has filed for a 21 day extension in the ammo case https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/com...hode_v_becerra/

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


To be clear: That's for the due date on the brief for the appeal to the injunction on itself, and has no bearing on the timeline for the Motion Panel's decision to grant or deny the Request for Emergency Stay on the Benitez's injunction order.

But yeah, Deputy AG Richards needs an extension to file a brief because apparently he has to go home and take care of the kids half of the day now (There's other reasons but I find that one most comical). I have no sympathy.

The Royal Nonesuch
Nov 1, 2005



Pillbug

Alan Smithee posted:

speaking of brands, is there anything to know about one or the other? I picked federal cuz I had heard of it

Basic federal is a perfectly good upper-middle ground imo and great for range ammo/learning how to shoot and will be great for most of your target needs. Once you shoot a bunch and want to consider serious self-defense rounds you'd move up to, for example: Federal Premium HST, Hornady Critical Defense, Speer, etc. They will be pricier, but obviously you do not want to have a mag full of old, budget ammo in your firearm when the corona zombies break the back window at 2AM looking for toilet paper. I've had ancient batches of ultra cheap old ammo where the primers fail to detonate waaay more than is even acceptable for loving around in the desert with friends. Ammo is, as you can imagine, one hell of a rabbit hole and you can find a billion reviews comparing brands and effectiveness if you really want to.

ArmyGroup303
Apr 10, 2004

If this were real life, I would have piloted this helicopter with you still in it.

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

Ammo is, as you can imagine, one hell of a rabbit hole and you can find a billion reviews comparing brands and effectiveness if you really want to.

Along those lines, Lucky Gunner Labs has a pretty comprehensive guide on the most common self-defense bullet brands and calibers.

I Demand Food
Nov 17, 2002


Alan Smithee posted:

speaking of brands, is there anything to know about one or the other? I picked federal cuz I had heard of it

Federal is a pretty solid brand.

POI for the Federal and FN SS197R is pretty much the same. SS195 and SS198 have a different POI than those two so it's worth keeping in mind if you use one type for range use and another for carry/SD.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


flightless greeb posted:

Per reddit, the AG has filed for a 21 day extension in the ammo case https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/com...hode_v_becerra/

Michel & Associates Opposition: https://michellawyers.com/wp-conten...ening-Brief.pdf
Opposition is conditional on whether the Emergency stay is granted or not.

I love this framing:

quote:

The State tells this Court that 28 days to brief an interlocutory appeal of a temporary injunction is insufficient, that it needs 21 extra days because of staffing issues exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic and the need for its attorneys to digest the district court’s order and collaborate on opposing it.
...
Yet the State was able to reach its conclusion that the district court had abused its discretion in issuing the preliminary injunction and draft not one, but two, motions making its case, in little more than 28 hours.

I mean obviously Becerra's office was prepping arguments and stuff ahead of time while they waited, expecting Benitez to do what he did, but it's wonderful framing.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Becerra's reply to CRPA's opposition to the emergency stay motion:

https://michellawyers.com/wp-conten...ding-Appeal.pdf

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007




quote:

If this appeal proceeds without a stay, hundreds if not thousands of prohibited persons—including violent felons, the dangerously mentally ill, and others—will have unfettered, anonymous access to ammunition at their local firearms stores. Once those prohibited people purchase ammunition, getting it back will be next to impossible

Like in every other state? gently caress off.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



It does seem like a pretty convincing legal argument (to me, a moron) if you hate guns and don't know anything about them or any of the other ill effects this law is causing. Bodes ill!

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


I can't really say anything about the standing of non-parties thing, or of CRPA not having organizational standing, because that refers more to caselaw stuff which is outside my domain. However, I take umbrage with Becerra calling out all these individuals denied on background checks in the Merits discussion (Part I) saying they're non-parties, but suddenly, when we get to the Irreparable Harm, Balance of Equities, and Public Interest discussion (Part II), where they're most certainly relevant, they're no longer mentioned; only the plaintiffs themselves supposedly having no standing and only the hundreds of prohibited persons (and the unknown number that were deterred!) seem to exist for this discussion. Yet in Benitez's order on the balance it talks about the other end of that, being the large number of non-prohibited people being denied their constitutional right, and the unknown number being deterred

But that's to be expected in an argument to emphasize their strengths.

Edit: I mean, hell, my dad and my grandmother are both deterred by the background check law because they don't want to deal with it. Grandma's shotgun wouldn't be registered, and Dad probably doesn't have a registered gun on file depending on if co-registrant on an AW counts or not. They'd rather I just gift them some (per the exemption of the law).

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 8, 2020

ArmyGroup303
Apr 10, 2004

If this were real life, I would have piloted this helicopter with you still in it.

Shifting gears back at a little to Miller versus Basura (the AW ban), do we know when Judge Benitez will resume hearing the case? From what I understand, COVID-19 has delayed the initial hearings, but it's not clear when they'll start/pick up again.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


ArmyGroup303 posted:

Shifting gears back at a little to Miller versus Basura (the AW ban), do we know when Judge Benitez will resume hearing the case? From what I understand, COVID-19 has delayed the initial hearings, but it's not clear when they'll start/pick up again.

No, no known date as of yet.

3/16/2020 MINUTE ORDER issued by the Honorable Roger T. Benitez posted:

In keeping with the Covid-19 related recommendations of United States President Donald J. Trump, as well as medical experts as to social distancing, this Court hereby exercises its discretion and vacates the current motion hearing date of March 19, 2020. Notice of a new motion hearing date and time will be given at a later date.
Edit: FPC maybe could ask the court for a date since video stuff is setup at least on the appeals court?

Refer to this page (sort by descending): https://www.courtlistener.com/docke...ller-v-becerra/
I used some of my free quarterly pacer bucks to add a few documents. I should probably write how PACER lets users charge up to $30 worth of document access per quarter for free, and that the RECAP extension will autoupload those docs to courtlistener... except for the appeals courts. No idea why court listener has issues with uploading docs for appeals courts.
Also this page but it's ugly: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/miller

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 11, 2020

ArmyGroup303
Apr 10, 2004

If this were real life, I would have piloted this helicopter with you still in it.

Thanks for the info, BeAuMaN. In related news, the Supreme Court is set to have conference over the gun-related cases on Friday, including our own Pena vs. Horan roster case. Here's hoping there's some positive forward movement on that case.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



ArmyGroup303 posted:

Thanks for the info, BeAuMaN. In related news, the Supreme Court is set to have conference over the gun-related cases on Friday, including our own Pena vs. Horan roster case. Here's hoping there's some positive forward movement on that case.

Most Fridays they have a conference, but there's generally fuckloads of petitions they work on, not just the gun ones. AFAIK they're not having a conference just for the gun cases. FWIW, there's already been two conferences since the NY decision (when the took all the gun cases off hold) and both times they relisted them all. Sometimes they'll do that for months before eventually denying (or granting) cert.

Here's a short thing about each of the 10 cases:

https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/04/...day-conference/

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Reading that it seems impossible that they won't take up a CCW case since there's like 5 identical cases pending for that same issue.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



Yeah basically tons of CCW, a few AWBs, and the roster. Just thinking over what'd benefit me most personally, probably the roster,. There's a lot of off-roster stuff I'd like to get, and I don't think I'd choose to carry. I think they could use any one of the cases to force the courts to start interpreting Heller in a way that benefits all the other gun cases, though.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Motions Panel granted emergency stay on injunction:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap...571335.68.0.pdf

Boooooooooo (going to read in a bit; Collins dissented)

Double oof from the request for extension on brief filing in the appeal being granted yesterday.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 00:18 on May 15, 2020

ArmyGroup303
Apr 10, 2004

If this were real life, I would have piloted this helicopter with you still in it.

BeAuMaN posted:

Motions Panel granted emergency stay on injunction. Boooooooooo (going to read in a bit; Collins dissented) Double oof from the request for extension on brief filing in the appeal being granted yesterday.

Booooooo! Booooooo! Onto the next step.

In slightly more positive news, in 2020, what would better to do for a featureless AR: buy one or build one? (Might crosspost with the AR megathread.)

If I was to build, I was trying to go for a simple, lighter weight build: Faxon gunner barrel, Aero lower, freefloat tube, ALG trigger, Thordsen stock (edit: now thinking about the adjustable length of pull on the Gen 3 is more important than the lighter weight of the Gen 2).

ArmyGroup303 fucked around with this message at 03:30 on May 15, 2020

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Huh... those Gen III Thordsens don't look bad.

Honestly haven't looked at what out-of-the-box featureless ARs cost but in the past it was typically cheaper to build your own by getting a lower and ordering everything else. Often talked about in the featureless AR is also Fightlite SCR lower but that's a lotta bucks.

Definitely check in the AR-15 thread though.

frunksock
Feb 21, 2002



Wack.

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flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I guess they're also pushing to ban 80%s and "Other" firearms which I think right now is mainly that Franklin Armory AR pistol?

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