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Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


RZA Encryption posted:

Thank you daniel. Here is my referral link: https://www.carmax.com/cars/chevrolet/spark-ev

You are a gentleman and a scholar

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Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008







Toilet Rascal

OldPueblo posted:

I guess I feel that it's such a great deal that they will disappear. I mean look at that price for that odometer. They aren't being made anymore and I live in Arizona where they weren't even sold. Because the FR-S was my car and I was the only one that really loved it, and I no longer drive it, why not get rid of it when the Spark EV seems to be better in every way for what my wife wants. Just makes sense, and my post here was really the end of that research. Thanks though!

Buy your wife a focus RS or whatever the cool hatch kids are buying.

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003


FilthyImp posted:

Weird question but whats the status of PHEV SUVs or Crossovers with 3rd row seating?

I think I saw a Tiguan Hybrid, and I know the Pacifica has a plug-in, but is it overall a pretty small niche?

Yes, my wife keeps saying we need bigger cars, but I'd be saddled with it and my 35 mile commute does not look favorably on 19mpg monsters.

A plug in Honda Pilot has been photographed testing but there is no info on release date or range yet

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002


I just noticed Electrify America has recently opened up two 350kW charging stations:

https://insideevs.com/electrify-ame...n-fincastle-va/

Now we just need someone to develop a battery chemistry that can safely charge at 4-5C and actually figure out how to mass-produce it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




OldPueblo posted:

I guess I feel that it's such a great deal that they will disappear. I mean look at that price for that odometer. They aren't being made anymore and I live in Arizona where they weren't even sold. Because the FR-S was my car and I was the only one that really loved it, and I no longer drive it, why not get rid of it when the Spark EV seems to be better in every way for what my wife wants. Just makes sense, and my post here was really the end of that research. Thanks though!

as a wife haver i just want to make sure that your wife has driven the car and it meets her needs and she likes it, i have been big time owned by this before

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

I bought a car that wasn't my first choice because of the sad face my GF pulled when she thought me and the dealer had stalled in negotiations and I was walking away.

I now have made the mistake of introducing her to the Renault Zoe, but like I said a couple of pages ago, I'm not paying $40k for a small electric car with bare minimum equipment. It was fun to drive though..

OldPueblo
May 2, 2007

Likes to argue. Wins arguments with ignorant people. Not usually against educated people, just ignorant posters. Bing it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

as a wife haver i just want to make sure that your wife has driven the car and it meets her needs and she likes it, i have been big time owned by this before

Having also been burned by this, I made sure she test drove it and had final say. She liked it, we're waiting on a tail light blemish to be fixed. Also we'll likely be trading off between the two EVs based upon who's driving where or needs what capacity.

ClassH
Mar 17, 2008


RZA Encryption posted:

I'm gonna make rabidly defending the spark ev my gimmick. Like the kind of people that accuse everyone of anti-tesla bias, but for the spark ev.


I support this.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

Pets, cars and lingerie make terrible gifts. Just hand the wife a big wad of cash a la George Jetson

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Oven Wrangler

honey I bought you a vacuum

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006



KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

as a wife haver i just want to make sure that your wife has driven the car and it meets her needs and she likes it, i have been big time owned by this before

Lol been there done that. Bought her a manual Accord because it was a great deal, but it was one of the older ones that still had a cable clutch that was pretty drat stiff and she got sick of it in traffic really quick. Sold it in a few months after that

Ever since then she drives and approves first

lostleaf
Jul 12, 2009


I'm looking into idea of an used small cheap EV. Does anyone have experience with the Fiat 500e? They're even cheaper than spark and leaf here in Norcal.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




It depends on your use case. They don't have great range and there are no quick charging options. If you're just poking around town or commuting they aren't bad for that purpose. They are not the best made vehicles of all time but an electric motor might help with that. Uncle Serge (former FCA CEO) (RIP) famously told people not to buy them, so you can spit on his grave a little bit if you do pick one up.

edit: I drove one, it was fairly good to drive actually. The weight is not ideal and the short wheelbase makes it a little crashy, but it had most of the same virtues as the normal Fiat 500.

OldPueblo
May 2, 2007

Likes to argue. Wins arguments with ignorant people. Not usually against educated people, just ignorant posters. Bing it.

lostleaf posted:

I'm looking into idea of an used small cheap EV. Does anyone have experience with the Fiat 500e? They're even cheaper than spark and leaf here in Norcal.

Having just gone through this decision, the reasons I went with the Spark were related to two more doors, more room/practicality, faster charging options, and the torque for fun factor. Also if you want to trial the Onstar stuff, I could see some of that being useful for my wife (phone app to pre-cool, etc). I think at least in my mind, the only edge the Fiat had was looks and cool factor.

OldPueblo fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Aug 17, 2018

RZA Encryption
May 11, 2006

I will never reveal the exponential secret.


Just fyi my onstar trial expired but I can still use the chevrolet app to lock/unlock/precondition. I wouldn't have expected that to keep working but it does and it's super useful.

lostleaf
Jul 12, 2009


My wife loves the way the 500 looks otherwise I'd be going with the spark or leaf as well. She took one look at the spark and said no way.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



lostleaf posted:

I'm looking into idea of an used small cheap EV. Does anyone have experience with the Fiat 500e? They're even cheaper than spark and leaf here in Norcal.

Here's a vlogger review, if you hadn't come across it already. The use case would require owning a parking spot with charging and not having any road trip plans, but other than that it looks fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHcWTDtA5iA

Jimong5
Oct 3, 2005


Grimey Drawer

RZA Encryption posted:

Just fyi my onstar trial expired but I can still use the chevrolet app to lock/unlock/precondition. I wouldn't have expected that to keep working but it does and it's super useful.
OnStar basic works for 5 years after the car is bought. I dont know if there is any option to renew it after that though.

Hizawk
Jun 18, 2004

High on the Lions.


Saying, Alexa, start my car is such a key loving feature and the future is now.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Hizawk posted:

Saying, Alexa, start my car is such a key loving feature and the future is now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5p0gqCIEa8

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

What is "c" as it relates to charging rates?

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

"I think he's watching us..."

"No, it's just the Mountain Peeks."
(Source)



ilkhan posted:

What is "c" as it relates to charging rates?

Coulomb? The amount of charge delivered by one amp in one second.

hifi
Jul 25, 2012



It's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger#C-rates

quote:

For example, for a battery with a capacity of 500 mAh, a discharge rate of 5000 mA (i.e., 5 A) corresponds to a C-rate of 10 (per hour), meaning that such a current can discharge 10 such batteries in one hour. Likewise, for the same battery a charge current of 250 mA corresponds to a C-rate of 1/2 (per hour), meaning that this current will increase the state of charge of this battery by 50% in one hour.[3]

Ulf
Jul 15, 2001

I see the eigenvalue
in thine eye,
I hear the tender tensor
in thy sigh.

Pillbug

That article uses way too many numbers and confuses the issue.

To put it simply: charging at 1C will charge your battery in one hour, charging at 2C will charge you in half an hour, charging at 0.8C will charge your battery in 1/.8 = 1h15m. It's an oversimplification when speaking about Li batteries since the charge rate is not constant, but it's still a very useful term.

It comes from R/C cars which ran off nicad batteries and had constant charge rates.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

Makes sense. That article is indeed way too many numbers.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



It's a bit confusing that it uses the same symbol as Coulomb. Not sure what it's short for, but I think of it as Capacity. If you charge twice the battery's capacity in one hour, it's 2C. (But Ulf is very right about charging rates)

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008


Fun Shoe

A few little interesting tidbits from Musk in this video, about future Tesla plans etc: https://youtu.be/MevKTPN4ozw

There are still plans for a $25k model eventually, etc). Also the Roadster 2's range of 600 miles is predicated on an expected 10% increase in energy density of their batteries..

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009




Not to drag this thread down the shitter again, but Musk promises what he thinks will be possible to be delivered on the date at which he thinks it will be, and repeatedly gets it wrong. This puts other manufacturers at a serious disadvantage because they're not competing against what Tesla is producing, they're competing against what Tesla has promised.

The bolt is has been in production for nearly 2 years now, and we still have yet to see a $35k Model 3.

I don't see how the volume of the car could support 180% of the Model S's battery volume, or of a tire that could support a 5000lb+ car up to 250mph. Still, every other electric sports car will be in the shadow of the Roadster 2 until it shows up, if it shows up. They won't be able to exist as they are capable of existing because they'll be compared to what can't yet exist.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

"I think he's watching us..."

"No, it's just the Mountain Peeks."
(Source)



Powershift posted:

Not to drag this thread down the shitter again, but Musk promises what he thinks will be possible to be delivered on the date at which he thinks it will be, and repeatedly gets it wrong. This puts other manufacturers at a serious disadvantage because they're not competing against what Tesla is producing, they're competing against what Tesla has promised.

The bolt is has been in production for nearly 2 years now, and we still have yet to see a $35k Model 3.

I don't see how the volume of the car could support 180% of the Model S's battery volume, or of a tire that could support a 5000lb+ car up to 250mph. Still, every other electric sports car will be in the shadow of the Roadster 2 until it shows up, if it shows up. They won't be able to exist as they are capable of existing because they'll be compared to what can't yet exist.

I don't think the Porsche 918 is in the shadow of anything.
Or the SLS AMG electric for that matter, except for the above.

Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Aug 20, 2018

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009




Finger Prince posted:

I don't think the Porsche 918 is in the shadow of anything.
Or the SLS AMG electric for that matter, except for the above.

Yeah, those $500,000-$1,000,000 limited production cars, one of which had an electric range of 12 miles, are certainly what i was referring to.

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008


Fun Shoe

I dunno, my impression is that most people think Tesla's are awesome cars, although there have been some issues with QA especially with the older models and early release model 3's, but those seem largely resolved now? They also don't stack up to similarly priced vehicles in terms of quality of the interior furnishings etc.
But in terms of performance etc I'm not aware of Musk over promising and underdelivering on anything really? I may well be wrong though.

The big problem with listening to him talk about future plans for Tesla seems to be his absurdly overambitious time estimates.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




I think it's less absolute performance and more of a timing question. I think the Roadster 2 will likely perform to spec when it's released. The problem is that it's talked about now, so benchracing idiots will compare specs of cars that you can buy now to some future promised Tesla performance spec.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

The problem with Tesla cars is that they cost more than a $25,00 LEAF but perform worse than a $500,000 SLS AMG

"What's the point?"

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

"I think he's watching us..."

"No, it's just the Mountain Peeks."
(Source)



Point is nobody makes an electric sports car, other than exotic hypercars. Nobody is planning to either, to my knowledge, other than Tesla. So the ones that exist now are not going to be judged against a hypothetical future Tesla sports car, and if anyone else has a one in the pipes, people can bench race them against the Roadster 2 all they like because neither exist.

CAT INTERCEPTOR
Nov 9, 2004

I think you mean dont piss in the sink....again!

Finger Prince posted:

Point is nobody makes an electric sports car, other than exotic hypercars. Nobody is planning to either, to my knowledge, other than Tesla. So the ones that exist now are not going to be judged against a hypothetical future Tesla sports car, and if anyone else has a one in the pipes, people can bench race them against the Roadster 2 all they like because neither exist.

Given the already existing Tesla perfomance optioned cars are already fast, there's a pretty high bar any other EV sportscar needs to go over to start with, let alone benchracing a hypothetical car that exists as a prototype only so far.

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Finger Prince posted:

Point is nobody makes an electric sports car, other than exotic hypercars. Nobody is planning to either, to my knowledge, other than Tesla. So the ones that exist now are not going to be judged against a hypothetical future Tesla sports car, and if anyone else has a one in the pipes, people can bench race them against the Roadster 2 all they like because neither exist.

Um. The Roadster is pretty clearly going to be a very expensive exotic. I say that as someone who REALLY wishes theyd do something like the first Roadster, since I can actually afford one now. Id also love a coupe version of the 3 with more power. Like, Id trade my 3 on one and eat the depreciation to make it happen.

(I may have missed your point. Running on not a lot of sleep. )

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

They need either margin or volume, and a $50k two seater is neither of those. Grab a P3 or figure out how to afford a Roadster 2. You have plenty of time to save, obviously.

I think his point was an electric Corvette would be awesome. Which is true, but wouldn't have the margins or volume to be sustainable for them. P3 is the closest we're going to get for a while. And to be fair, the P3 is a drat good sports car in its own right.

You'd have to add $20k+ to the sticker to justify a new body design with the volume it would capture, and the response would end up being "it's a little better around corners, but that isn't worth giving up the back seat" and nobody would buy it.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Aug 21, 2018

OldPueblo
May 2, 2007

Likes to argue. Wins arguments with ignorant people. Not usually against educated people, just ignorant posters. Bing it.

Not gonna lie, sometimes when I have to go somewhere I jump in the Spark instead of the Model 3. I just love driving "zesty" small/light cars, maybe I'm just missing the FR-S. Tesla just needs to produce cheap shorter range cars that millennials (or whatever the term is these days) can toss around the city. Something like all those other "failed" attempts to mass produce the three-wheel gas commuter cars (Elio for example). Everything doesn't have to be awesome. My philosophy is either pay extra and get exactly what you want, or swing completely the other way and get something cheap and enjoy the fact that you saved a bunch of money. In the middle is where you don't get either and are sad.

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008


Fun Shoe

It'll certainly be interesting, if they get that far, too see what they compromise for the future $25k model. I don't really think they'd do a short range thing as you suggest but who knows really.

e: I saw my first Nissan Leaf in London yesterday. Actually looked like a decent normal car. Seems like the next thing for taxi drivers (I loving hope). I'd love to test drive one, though current models don't have the range I unfortunately.

El Grillo fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Aug 21, 2018

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Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002


El Grillo posted:

It'll certainly be interesting, if they get that far, too see what they compromise for the future $25k model. I don't really think they'd do a short range thing as you suggest but who knows really.

The thing there is that Elon Musk's grand vision is for there to be no excuse for anyone anywhere to stick with fossil fuels. Short-range commuter cars don't really fit into that very well.

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