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When it comes to the makeup of our armored detachment, keep rarity points in mind-as neat as it would be to bring nothing but Sherman 76s and 90mm TDs, that just isn't happening in the points we have allowed. Looking at the list, here's some of the options that we have: Option A: Tank Destroyer Doctrine 5 M4A3(75)W (Mid): 232 points each, 0 rarity 2 M36 GMC: 299 points each, 846 rarity Option B: Distributed Anti-Armor 6 M4A3(76)W (Early): 258 points each, 258 Rarity 1 M4A3(75)W (Mid): 232 points each, 0 rarity Option C: Jumbos Lead the Way 1 M4A3E2(75)W: 297 Points each, 1485 Rarity 1 M4A3(76)W (Early): 258 points each, 258 Rarity 5 M4A3(75)W (Mid): 232 points each, 0 rarity There's a few other permutations we can try, but generally this is what it boils down to. Personally, my preference is for option A or option C-Option A since the M36 TDs will be extremely handy in taking out heavier German armor, and option C because Jumbooooooos. E: Though something else to consider is investing in Hellcats and transports, to try and get our troops to key positions on the battlefield before the Germans can arrive. If we can get to the best terrain first, then we've got a much better chance of being able to hold the Germans back even if they do have superior firepower and numbers. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 16:43
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Dance Officer posted:Mes amis, would it not be wise to consider anti-tank performance the highest priority? After all, why insist on a tank when a field gun can perform the same role on the defense, no? American towed AT guns were notoriously lovely. The M1 57mm was a copy of the British 6 pounder, and was hopelessly obsolete by late 1944. The M1 76mm was more powerful, but was mounted on the same carriage as the 105mm howitzer and as a result it was heavy, unmaneuverable, and generally worthless in a real fight. And that was the heaviest they got-while there was a 90mm AA gun in a DP mount, it was pretty rare, and the gun never made it into a proper towed platform. As a result, the best American AT guns are the ones mounted on tanks-particularly the M36's 90mm M1. They also benefit from having a handful of HVAP rounds, which have much greater velocity and armor penetration than standard anti-tank rounds. This is all not to say that we shouldn't have regular AT guns, because those can definitely come in handy, but they're not anything we can actually rely on. Gnoman posted:I'm thinking along slightly different lines for the armor. I'm leaning toward 3 M36 (standard, not the B1) TDs and 4 105mm M4s. Clarification from Grey-are the rarity points also limited as part of the 25% we can spend on armor, or can we go over? Obviously, that changes quite a bit of the calculus on what we can bring. Edit: Personally, this is what I'm thinking if the rarity points are limited: Tank Destroyer Section: M18 x2 First Tank Platoon: M4A3(76)W Early M4A3(75)W Mid M4A3(75)W Mid Second Tank Platoon: M4A3(76)W Early M4A3(75)W Mid M4A3(105) Late It gives a good balance of numbers and firepower, with 4 76mm guns (Two of which will likely be able to reach prime flanking positions before anyone else can arrive) and a mix of standard Shermans and an assault gun. It also frees up rarity points to be used for things like heavy howitzer barrages, which may be critical towards keeping the Germans off the objective points or disrupting their infantry formations. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 19:08
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Hey Grey, is there any way to get a sense of the makeup of those artillery batteries? I want to know how much some 155mm tubes with VT fuzes would cost.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:39
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habeasdorkus posted:I feel like we need Gnoman to make some calls here. We're currently having a lively back-and-forth in the Discord Grey set up! The long and the short of it is that we're trying to prioritize our armor, artillery, and infantry options. Armor-wise, we're thinking a combo of M4A3E8s, M36s, and M18s, and are currently discussing infantry options (And also waiting on Baccaruda to finish setting up Final Blitzkrieg so we can get more solid estimates on troop numbers-we all want VT fuzes, for instance, but they could come at the cost of infantry bazookas or an extra M36).
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Aug 11, 2018 03:07
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habeasdorkus posted:What's the discord link? https://discord.gg/DBC4M46
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Aug 11, 2018 03:25
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Try this one: https://discord.gg/prRzDJJ e: Grey will still have to let you into the channel
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Aug 11, 2018 04:05
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habeasdorkus posted:That looks pretty good to me. I especially like having those Hellcats available as they're mobile (60 mph on the road!) and may be able to shoot and scoot. In the list Baccaruda posted, they're a pair of off-map towed 105mm batteries. They're invulnerable to counter-battery fire, and come with a set number of rounds they can fire.
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Aug 11, 2018 16:29
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Keeping in mind that the list Bac posted may not be the final composition that Gnoman goes with, anyone have any additional input on what list we'll be bringing? Speaking personally, I'm good with the list that Bac posted. Missing out on the additional Sherman hurts a bit, but it can't be denied that the Germans will likely be bringing a fair amount of armor, and the Hellcats and M36 TDs offer the best chance at taking them out-both from the side, in the case of the Hellcats, and from the front in the case of the M36 TDs. I do wish there was some way we could squeeze in some heavier artillery or VT fuzes, but to be honest I'm not sure what we could cut to get there. I can 100% guarantee that we're going to regret not bringing nothing but forward observers and 240mm artillery, however.
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Aug 11, 2018 20:54
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Alright, with the list set, it's time to fill it out with commanders. Sign up to die in Task Force Gnoman here
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Aug 12, 2018 21:27
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If anyone wants I made a ton of unit banners:                     
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Aug 13, 2018 00:38
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We could also take anyone who wants to drive an individual tank, just to help fill out the roster with active players.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:04
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Radical. New guys, signup sheet is here. We need a straggler platoon, someone to drive some armored cars, and a few people to order around mortars. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hy0R8lZecf60a55Bmyyvy-GureyxxcSqbhewJMPBzzI/edit#gid=0
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Aug 13, 2018 20:48
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Jaguars! posted:No worries, I left that in by accident. Sure does. Don't believe they're armed, though they could be useful for light recon.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:24
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Alright, here's the current labeled map:
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Aug 14, 2018 00:30
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 So here's my current thoughts re: Armor deployment and planning. The Germans will almost certainly have the tactical advantage on this map. If they brought any big cats (Which they almost certainly did), they'll be able to place their tanks in positions where they'll be able to cover large parts of the map with long-range guns and heavy frontal armor-which means if we want to exact a toll on them, we can't allow themselves to play their game. Now, one of the most crucial parts of the map is Grand Canyon Highway. It bisects the map cleanly, and will have to be crossed by any German forces wishing to attack positions on the west side of the map. It's crucial for both map control and for identifying enemy forces, and we're going to take it. Right when the whistle blows, I'm going to order at least one M18 Hellcat and one M36 to Grand Canyon Highway. By my calculations, the Hellcat can get to a relatively concealed position by Gettysburg within two minutes of the game starting, with the M36 arriving at the south end of GCH shortly afterwards. With both vehicles arriving quickly to the scene, they'll be able to establish overwatch over the highway and can blast any German forces attempting to cross. It's not a plan without risks, but it can potentially create vital disruption within the German ranks, and can give us time to bring up our infantry to Cobru. Meanwhile, the Shermans will be assisting in delivering troops to Cobru. Each Sherman can carry 15 troops, and thus can help fulfill the vital task of getting our troops to forward firing positions as quickly as possible. After dropping off the troops, the Shermans will work in an infantry support role, keeping their guns trained on Noville and ready to attack any German infantry or armor coming from the town. Finally, our last tank destroyer platoon will race along the western edge of the battlefield up towards the southern edge of Acadia. Their job is going to be twofold-getting into a position where they can fire on German troops coming out of Noville, and serve as a check on German armor attempting to advance on Cobru. I'm still deciding on where to deploy the last M36 and M18. I'm tempted to throw one towards Grand Canyon to help lock down the road, or to keep them in reserve behind Joshua Tree so that they can respond to threats from both the east and the west. But, if anyone has suggestions, I'm happy to hear them. So, thoughts?
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Aug 14, 2018 06:37
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Oh man I really need something for the Straggler Battalion, I would be a bad Captain if I had nothing. I made a ton of banners and posted them on the last page, feel free to grab one and MS Paint a slogan on it. Acebuckeye13 posted:If anyone wants I made a ton of unit banners:
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Aug 14, 2018 06:41
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Alright tankers, get ready to ride. First things first, bunnyofdoom, your orders are simple: Deploy in the far western corner and move both your tank destroyers as fast as possible into the space between Acadia and Saguaro. Make sure your move ends far enough back between the two wooded areas that you can't be targeted from Death Valley, but can still put fire down into area around the Natural Bridges. habeasdorkus, I'm giving you a choice. I want at least one of your Hellcats to tear rear end from the eastern edge of the spawn area across Stones River and Congaree Drive to Grand Canyon Highway, taking position on the highway hugging Petrified Forest. After that, you have three options: 1. Deploy both of your Hellcats at that position 2. Deploy one Hellcat at that position and deploy the other as a reserve on Zion Road behind Joshua Tree 3. Push one or both Hellcats are close as you dare towards Noville, to get better shots on tanks and troops crossing over the highway. Once you get past Petrified Forest, there is effectively very little concealment along the highway, so you're basically asking to get shot. But, you could distract the Germans, and if you push all the way into Noville you basically create a giant problem for the Germans that they'll have to slow their advance to solve. On the other hand, you're guaranteed to lose whichever Tank Destroyers you send down the Highway, so you better loving make it count if you dare risking US Army Property that way. Once you've deployed the Hellcats, it's inevitable that the Germans will eventually put something at the other end of Grand Canyon to shoot back. Don't get dragged into a gun duel-if the Germans get any tanks with their front armor facing you at the other end, pull the Hellcats back to Congaree Drive. Comstar, your M36 90mm GMCs are some of the most important vehicles we have. I want you to send at least one along with habeasdorkus' Hellcats to Petrified Forest, and I'll let you decide if you want to risk sending both if you really want to try and lock down that highway for us. Otherwise, send the other M36 to the area behind Joshua Tree, so we can send it to the East or West depending on the tactical situation (And so it can potentially knock out any German armor attempting to flank us from the east. boxofaids, your role is recon. I want at least one of your M8 Greyhounds to ride east and take cover either around the area of Petrified Forest or Katmai to get a good observation point on German activity in the eastern half of the map-I don't care if it's a Kubelwagen or a King Tiger, if it's coming from the east I want to know about it. As to your other armored car, that I'll give you some more flexibility for-you can try to plant it somewhere in the west, possibly behind Saguaro or within E3 looking northeast. Or, you can join with the medium tanks and try to provide some additional infantry support. Speaking of the Medium Tanks, both Easy 8s are going load up an infantry squad each from Alpha Company (Just tell me who, gradenko) and follow the following course towards Cobru:  FAST up the Natchez Trace towards Cobru. Upon arriving in the southwest corner of the objective area, HUNT into the nearby garden and take up positions there, offloading the tank riders. Face northeast, towards Noville. Open Up Beginning Position:  End Position:  Standing Orders and Objectives Our tanks are our most valuable assets, but make no mistake: In all likelihood, we are outnumbered and outgunned. Should you come into a situation where you're looking at a gun duel with a German AFV, fall back. We don't have a ton of space to work with, but we can make things difficult for the Germans and force them to move more slowly and cautiously, which works fully to our advantage. If you have a question, ask. Hell, I've been playing CM games now for a while and I'm still learning things! Fortunately, there are plenty of people here who are knowledgeable about the game-both Combat Mission specifically and the how these games tend to run over the forums. If you want to know something specific about how orders are handled, the differences between the various move commands, or specific terrain features you want to use to your advantage, please post in the thread or the discord to let us know. Seriously, ask. Maps are deceptive-what may seem like a foolproof plan on the strategic map may actually be a horrible deathtrap on the ground. The map is descriptive in some ways, but does little to fully illustrate the rise and fall of terrain, the effects of foliage, or other features on the map. There are several people including myself who have the game who are willing to take screenshots of terrain areas to help you plot your orders, so don't hesitate to ask about how bulletproof your plan really is. And above all else, Shoot the Germans.
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Aug 15, 2018 04:14
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habeasdorkus posted:PS, requesting permission to repaint my M18's red to make them go faster. Approved, as are your orders.
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Aug 15, 2018 22:17
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habeasdorkus posted:The armored cars have a top speed of 55mph on the road, i don't know about their cross country performance. It's pretty good, on the dry ground we have they should be able to stick pretty close to the Hellcats.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:26
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Three quick things: First, don't worry about going slow over the creek. The conditions are dry and there's very little chance of your tanks bogging down as they cross, regardless of how fast you're going. Second, I need those 90mm guns overlooking Grand Canyon Highway at Petrified Forest as quickly as you can get them there. The timing on this map is going to be critical, and we need to be able cut off the highway before the Germans start getting tanks and men across it. Please make sure your movement order ends with your tanks on Grand Canyon Highway at Petrified Forest, and that it's as straight a line from the spawn area as possible. Third, you can choose where you deploy, so let Grey know you want to start on the eastern edge of the map facing east-otherwise he may leave you in the default starting location if you don't specify, and that adds even more time. Just want to make sure we're on the same page. Do you have any questions or concerns about what you and your TDs have been asked to do?
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Aug 16, 2018 14:43
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Fray posted:There's no snow and this is a creek, not a river like in the other cases. Yeah I've run a bunch of tests to see how long it takes to get armor to GCH and nothing has ever bogged going across Stones River.
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Aug 16, 2018 20:11
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Important observations: -The Germans decided to bring a Mechanized Infantry Battalion, it looks like, which is good for us-the additional mobility doesn't really help them that much on this map, and is helped to create a giant traffic jam which is delaying the deployment of their armor. On the other hand, if they decide to swing their thrust towards our southern flank, this could lead to Issues -Speaking of their armor, it's hard to say for sure but my guess right now is that they've got 2 King Tigers, 2 Panthers (Maybe), and 1 Brummbar. Paradoxically, I think this may actually be a win for us-we can't really hurt the KTs, but they'll likely stand back and snipe, which means the Germans will have a reduced ability to support their infantry, and we can frustrate the KTs with smoke bombardments. -Looks like there was a miscommunication and the infantry squads didn't get planted on my Shermans. This isn't the end of the world-I can move my Shermans to try and better cover the approaches to Cobru. But each and every one of our infantry commanders need to change their MOVE orders to QUICK in order to get to their positions. The Germans may have a hosed-up traffic jam now, but once they start getting their halftracks moving there's only so much my armor can do to delay them. The only way we can hold Cobru is to get boots on the ground, and hopefully before artillery starts dropping on their heads. -Just wanna say I'm proud of my armor commanders, our tanks are already moving and some are even in position. I may dive into the game and make some suggestions about some specific unit placement (Just to make sure all the tanks that have been ordered to Grand Canyon Highway have shots), and I may order one of the Hellcats forward to help gently caress up their transports if I can find a position that's covered from the KTs, but you're all doing great thus far and it's because of you that we are going to win this battle 
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Aug 19, 2018 23:37
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Apparently one of the M36s somehow immobilized itself and ~I'm so mad~
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Aug 20, 2018 01:59
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Hubis posted:I'm not sure what the effective range is on the organic mortars, but I may consider moving them more towards the front. If they can't get direct LOS on anything they can hit from those trees I might as well push up. Don't, that field is way too exposed and you'll get blasted by the KT or anything else they have on overwatch
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Aug 20, 2018 03:17
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Comstar posted:Well I’m furious. May I say I told you so? A tank destroyer getting immobilized didn't happen once in the dozen times I ran a turn to see how long it would take the TDs to get to their positions. Speed and mobility is of the essence this mission, and it was a risk we had to take. Sometimes, bad luck happens-only thing we can do is move on with our remaining resources. Bac's working on targeting the artillery. The functional M36 has an important job to do, and that's locking down Grand Canyon Highway. We've got two M18s that are rushing to take similar positions, and HabeasDorkus is at liberty to decide whether he wants to push up his TDs to try and briefly engage the column. The problem, of course, is that by doing so, that puts them at risk of exposing themselves to fire from a King Tiger and a Panther at least. That's not a long-range engagement we can win, which is why I want your remaining M36 to hang back in a safe, unexposed overwatch position. Trying to get too greedy here could risk the whole operation-in the end, knocking out a few halftracks won't shift the course of the battle, but losing our remaining heavy anti-tank asset in a long-range gun duel may. The immobilized M36 is stuck there for the rest of the game. The line of sight isn't awful, and it may yet be able to engage German forces attempting to work their way around the east. Unfortunately, indirect fire isn't possible. Once I've got the save going, I'll try and get some more detailed estimates and maps out as to where our forces can best position themselves. If you have any questions, please let me know.
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Aug 20, 2018 06:00
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 Comstar posted:For the sole remaining M36 that has mobility, if I stop, can I get a flank shot on the Panther if it keeps moving forward? Ie- can I stop it advancing? So for reference, this is what your M36 can see:   And the current movement orders:  At this point, I would not stop in the field. You’re only going to be able to take long-ranged potshots at halftracks, and it’s a hideously exposed position-especially considering one of their King Tigers is currently on overwatch just out of line of sight. Instead, continue heading FAST towards Petrified, and take up position alongside or just behind the Hellcats to wallop anything coming across Grand Canyon. (Also, make sure to change your movement, as right now it’ll take you through some bushes and into a position that can’t actually see anything due to elevation). Again, it cannot be emphasized enough just how important controlling Grand Canyon Highway is: If we prevent the Germans from moving across it, or at least slow them down, we are denying them the use of the crossroads that they need to advance on Antwerp. Petrified Forest may very well be the most important position on the map and your M36 having line of sight down it is an essential part of our battle plan. Moving on:  boxofaids, I think this may be the ideal spot for your western Greyhound. From here you’ve got a good look into the eastern approach to Cobru, and together with my Shermans we should be able to effectively cover all the approaches into the town from here while waiting for the infantry to show up. It's also not too late to send your other Greyhound back west via Congaree, so you can use both armored cars to help defend Cobru and prevent the Germans from entering Joshua Tree. habeasdorkus, your orders look good. Be aware that your Hellcats might be far up enough that they'll be getting LoS into vehicles entering Noville from the east, which could be a good or bad thing depending on the angles and what shoots back. bunnyofdoom, you should be alright with your current orders, though something I've found is that the area position you're heading to may have enough elevation to see over Noville towards the higher ground to the east. I don't believe from that position you'll have LoS on that KT (Which is a good thing) or to German vehicles entering Noville, but it's something to consider all the same. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 00:31
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 Now, for my orders:  I want to cancel my current movement and do this instead: Move both Shermans FAST due north. The Sherman on the left (Henceforth named 'CASCABELA QUEEN') will be stopping behind the hedge where it can get a clear line of fire across the northern fields, as well as down the road to the northeast. The Sherman on the right ('COPPERHEAD PRINCE') will be driving to just in front of the house, where it should have a decent line of sight to the northeastern approach to the town, while also having line of sight to the northern fields. Both should also OPEN UP until contact is made. If anyone has any questions or needs orders or suggestions clarified, let me know.
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Aug 21, 2018 00:53
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Bacarruda posted:This current pathing will drive the M36 right into the LOS of the King Tiger, by parking it on the open ground. Why not turn left a little bit and post up so that the forest screens the left flank of the M36? Yeah that's why I made sure to post the current pathing, since it's Very Necessary to change it.
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Aug 21, 2018 01:01
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habeasdorkus posted:I'm assuming you want me to not change my orders a bit, Cap'n Bucky? I'll just sit right here and shoot some danged tanks. Your only orders right now are to kill every son of a bitch unfortunate enough to cross into your sights.
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Aug 22, 2018 19:46
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I'll have more orders and thoughts up when I have more time but first:Comstar posted:M36 Platoon This is an impossible order. The forest is impassable to armor. Furthermore, I wouldn't want you to do it anyway. First and foremost, there's no reason to pop smoke since the Germans are already trying to smoke the position and can't see you regardless. Second, I'm not willing to give up that position. I still need time to think about how I want to play this and to go over the terrain, but for now both Comstar and Habeas, I want both of you to have your armor hold position.
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Aug 26, 2018 01:04
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First things first: Comstar and habeasdorkus, HOLD POSITION This may seem counter-intuitive at first, but here's the thing: Grand Canyon Highway is far too valuable to give up this easily. So far, we have killed two* AFVs, damaged a third, and are on the precipice of murdering a fourth. The Germans cannot advance across the highway without exposing their sides to our guns. If we leave now, we may never reclaim this ground, and allow the Germans to seize the initiative we have denied them. I say, nuts to that. You may be worried about the smoke, but I'm not. The German mortars are limited to a handful of smoke rounds each, which means that this bombardment may not completely obscure our tanks' vision. Furthermore, even if it does, we have three tanks with heavy anti-tank guns and excellent spotting capabilities. Even if the Germans try and park a Panther or two on the opposite end of the highway, we've got a good chance of taking them out-especially considering we can reverse to make sure we're in a hull-down position. Now, if the KT emerges from the smoke... well, that's a problem, but it's still a risk I'm willing to take. bunnyofdoom, your Hellcat is in a tough position and I'm not sure where to order it. You can try to creep forward along the edge of the forest to try and get LoS on something, stay hidden in reserve, or try to go back and drive along the creek to get an eye on what they might have coming from the north side of town. The choice is up to you. *Two AFVs? That's right fuckers, not only did that Hellcat kill a Hummel, the shot went right through and killed the one behind it. That same Hellcat is also a second away from blasting a halftrack full of dudes, so suffice it to say we're off to a good start. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 03:59
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Comstar, I don't want to have to keep yanking you back, so please post what you want to do before you actually make orders because the ones you put in are actively counter-productive. Driving back to the west side of the map in full view of whatever vehicles they have on overwatch in the east is asking for an unlucky shot to kill you, and Now, on to orders: CURRENT POSITION For the record, here's the area we're trying to defend:   It really can’t be emphasized just how critical of a position Petrified Forest is. The overwatch over the road is golden, and from spots it has LoS of the roads leading into Noville from the east, and some approaches into Sequoia. It’s drat good ground, to put it lightly. The downside, of course, is that the area around Petrified is fairly exposed. Driving away from Petrified means allowing LoS and long-range shots from enemy anti-tank assets positioned in the northeastern part of the map, which contains at least one King Tiger. Trying to creep around behind the forest itself can also mean potential exposure, given the shape of the forest. The reasons why we occupied it, however, were important enough that I deemed it was worth the risk. I still do, though the Panther sitting on Grand Canyon is certainly an immense danger and risk. So, the question here is: What is the best way to utilize our armor, to protect it from enemy fire while preventing German armor from running rampant across the map? Well, there’s a few options, ranging from defensive to aggressive. Let’s review: OPTION ONE: RETREAT In this scenario, we extricate our M18 and M36 from the Petrified Forest position entirely, ceding the ground and falling back to friendly lines. BENEFITS: -Gets the armor out of the line of sight of the enemy. -Repositions armor closer to friendly infantry DRAWBACKS: -Armor is exposed between Petrified and Joshua Tree -Lack of positions suitable for armor near those lines -Cedes extremely important ground to enemy forces. OPTION TWO: TEMPORARY FALLBACK In this scenario, the M36 and M18 withdraw from the road, either directly behind Petrified or onto the open ground to the west (Allowing them to still have LoS to Noville while remaining out of sight of the Panther and hidden via Petrified from the KT). BENEFITS: -Armor is no longer exposed to the Panther -Remain near the ground to retake it if/when the Panther moves DRAWBACKS -Cede Grand Canyon Highway to the enemy (Even if temporarily) -May be difficult to retake ground if Panther remains stationary OPTION THREE: HULL DOWN One of the benefits of the Grand Canyon Highway position is that it’s on a hill-which means it’s possible to go Hull-Down, exposing only the tips of our turrets to the enemy while they remain fully silhouetted along the Highway. To do this, the M36 and M18 would have to reverse to these approximate locations (Preferably even farther back, to roughly along the small patch of trees):  BENEFITS: -Protection against enemy armor increases significantly, as the enemy has to make a much more difficult shot -Retains commanding position over Grand Canyon Highway -Can potentially kill Panther once the smoke clears (90mm will go right through and 76mm AP can go through the turret) DRAWBACKS: -Still exposed to the Panther OPTION FOUR: DEATH TO BIG CATS Something that hasn’t been mentioned much is the position of the King Tiger that we can see. For reference, here he is:  Look at that motherfucker, thinks he’s so great. Well we can show him As you may be able to see, the KT’s side armor is exposed as it’s currently trundling along. This is a significant opportunity, and we could easily sneak the M36 along the side of Petrified to try and get shots on its side armor. BENEFITS: -Can knock out one of their biggest armor assets -Will probably not get an opportunity like this again DRAWBACKS: -It’d be a hell of a shot -KT can stop and pivot at any time -We don’t know where the second KT is, and driving the M36 to where it can see the KT carries with it the risk that it’ll expose itself to the unseen KT. FINAL OPINION: These are the four options roughly available to us. Note that we can mix and match-we can, say, have the Hellcat fall back to Joshua Tree, while the M36 hides behind Petrified. But personally, I don’t want to give up this ground. Having our armor hide or fall back is a foolish endeavor, as we’re facing the same scenario wherever the Germans show up with their heavy armor-they’ll drive forward, potentially bounce a shot, and kill us there. Grand Canyon Highway is one of the few positions where we have a real terrain advantage that can even the score, and I do not want to give it up. After all, remember this: If we stick the tank destroyers somewhere they’ll be safe and untargeted by German armor all game, that is effectively the same as them having been destroyed or never having been brought along in the first place. Victory requires risk, and there are some risks we have to take-especially when the terrain and the enemy armor composition are already so unfavorable. Right now, I’m going to order both Habeas and Comstar to have their vehicles REVERSE and OPEN UP to achieve hull-down positions over Grand Canyon Highway. Is it a risk? Absolutely. But every other action requires risk as well, and this is the one that gives us the best chance of success. Unless someone wants to take a side shot on that KT, in which case by all means, godspeed you crazy motherfucker. Now, if you want to argue for a different course of action, I'm more than willing to hear it, and talk you through options with considerations to terrain and enemy LoS. But please, talk to me first. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 16:08
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Hubis posted:I would just like to take a moment to point out that this particular situation with the vehicles is the precise definition of "outnumbered and outgunned", and that there is no inherent need to hold the road in the long term(instead of simply trying to use ambush tactics to deny it to the enemy instead).  There's one tank versus two tank destroyers, and both TDs are capable of penetrating the Panther. They're not outnumbered or outgunned (For the moment)Going further, though, holding the road severely limits the ability for the Germans to bring troops and infantry to the western side of the map to attack Cobru, which severely restricts their mobility and ability to make a concentrated attack on our forces. It also prevents them from trying to swing armor around the south side of Noville to support an attack on Joshua Tree, which helps us significantly. Personally, I consider the benefits of holding the position to be well worth the risk. That said, as I've said before, I will listen to Comstar and habeas, and I will follow Gnomen's orders. But I want to make my perspective and understanding clear.
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Aug 28, 2018 20:19
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Man, it would have been one thing if the Hellcat had at least seen who was shooting at it, but this really hurts. I don't know if I just badly overestimated their spotting capabilities or if the Germans brought tanks with higher veterancy, but... urgh, this sucks. Well, nothing to do but keep moving. Big thing right now is withdrawing the M36 before it gets murdered by the KT. I'll look at the terrain later and see if there's an optimal route to try and withdraw along to bring it back to our lines. Gnoman or Comstar, any preferences on where to bring it to? Also, Habeas, feel free to take over one of the Shermans so you can still command something with treads.
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Aug 29, 2018 11:54
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As a quick note, I'll be leaving on Thursday night or Friday morning to hike into the canyon, and will be hiking back up Saturday night. For the time I'm gone, I'll be giving habeasdorkus provisional command of the armored company, unless he'll also be busy or unless anyone else wants it more.
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Aug 29, 2018 20:56
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Got it. Comstar, boxofaids, please fight amongst yourselves so I can determine who deserves it more.
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Aug 30, 2018 00:03
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Pretty straightforward orders this turn. Our main priority is to get ready for the German assault on Cobru, and to place forces in optimal areas to wipe out German infantry while forcing German armor to come in close to get shots on our own vehicles. boxofaids, I want you to move one of your M8 scout cars to help cover the northeastern approach to Cobru. The terrain there is pretty rough, and doesn't offer much good spotting, but it's worth having a spare gun to help cover the most likely German approach. I've provided the following terrain pictures to give you a better idea where a good spot might be, and if you want anything more detailed or would like advice, feel free to ask.   habeasdorkus, you are now in command of M4A3E8(76)W 'CASCABELA QUEEN'. Treat her well, and stay put for now.  bunnyofdoom, as discused, consider your remaining M18 Hellcat to be in reserve and on overwatch. It's in a good position for now, no need to get greedy.  Comstar, it's a minor miracle that the KT hasn't swung around to shoot at you yet. If you want, feel free to stay in that position for no longer than one turn to send a few more potshots at the KT before hauling rear end back to our lines, as Grand Canyon Highway is now untenable. The position you posted the previous turn near the scout car is fine for now, but feel free to inquire about other places you could potentially plant your big gun. Be sure to ask though, since the terrain around that area is more than a little screwy in ways that aren't apparent from the top-down map.  e: I have realized the pictures I provided are not high-res enough to provide the assistance I had hoped they would. I will address this tomorrow. Maybe.
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Aug 30, 2018 06:12
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M4A3E8(76)W 'COPPERHEAD PRINCE' will MOVE north along the road to the edge of the crossroads, where the tank will stop where its right flank will be covered by the barn. 
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Aug 30, 2018 06:15
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Hubis posted:Ideally we'd get some infantry up to the woods in the NE to support that lone TD and challenge them trying to encircle Cobru, but the window for that may have already closed. Pretty sure considering our force comp that window was never open to begin with.
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Sep 5, 2018 16:32
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Sep 6, 2018 05:43
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