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Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Company B, 2nd Platoon



MG Squad: SPLIT and attach to B and C squads as indicated

A Squad + HQ: MOVE to the first copes of trees, then QUICK to the next. Stop and observe.

B Squad: QUICK down the hill and break east around the fence, then MOVE into the woods up to the tree-line.
+ Attached MMG: FACE towards the road intersection ahead and DEPLOY

C Squad: QUICK down the hill and break north along the road. MOVE across the stream [it appears there is a shallow ford there?] and into the woods as indicated. Creep up to the apex of the woods and observe.
+ Attached MMG: Remain about 50m behind C Squad, do not deploy yet.

Mortar Squad + Ammo Bearers: MOVE to the copse of trees behind A Squad [do the 61mm Mortars need to deploy?]

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Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Comstar posted:

Did the TRP's get placed? Because the Germans are going to put theirs right on those forests.

:agreed:

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Grey Hunter posted:

I got the German orders laid in this morning, only took me 2 hours.

It'll go faster once they have fewer tanks

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Christ on a cracker

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

habeasdorkus posted:

We need to start a deadpool. I'm saying one of the M18s, from a lucky shot at a range of about 1km.

Is it too late to get in on this? Because that seems like a pretty solid guess.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

glynnenstein posted:

Baker Company Orders



Baker Company current and planned positions:




Status: Crowding between 3rd and 4th platoons but nothing much to be done for it (in practical terms, Grey Hunter probably can't micro this much cleaner given terrain and constraints). The company seems to be well concealed by the intervening trees at this time, so hopefully they can progress unmolested. No opposition are visible at this time. The men are moving smartly at QUICK pace, all units are at least READY or RESTED. (Except my XO team, who are tired. Must be smoking on the march.) Final positions will need to be tweaked (pulled back a bit) because spotting through the woods is somewhat doable and edge positions will be dangerous.


2nd Platoon: This is the disposition of your men.



All looks good. I will note that your mortar might have shots from the 2nd squad area that may not at their currently planned destination. You may consider upping their pace if you do decide on a more forward position.

EDIT: if anyone wants screenshots or has questions, ask away and I'll do what I can.

I'm not sure what the effective range is on the organic mortars, but I may consider moving them more towards the front. If they can't get direct LOS on anything they can hit from those trees I might as well push up.

If you get a chance, can you take a look and see what the LOS look like from the woods where they/first squad are headed? It seems worth hanging back if it seems like a good observation point, but otherwise I'll try to consolidate.

How much do we care about grabbing position east of the road? Petrified Forest seems like a decent bet, but I'd be spread thin.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Jaguars! posted:

Intel report:



Armor:
Early on we saw two Tiger IIs, one near the front of the column and one near the back. One panther with the main column and of course the Brummbar, which is a kind of armoured assault mortar that can probably level a building in one go.

Less obvious was the units on the Yosemite Pike: A medium tank with tank riders and some kind of SPG. They're visible at about 1:58'33". Since Medium tanks often come as a unit, there may be another one or they may just have a pair of Panthers. The SPG is likely a loner.

At this stage the head of both columns will have reached roughly the corners of the roads.

Infantry:
Not much to panic about, we've seen 14 Halftracks total so figure about a reinforced company of mechanized troops so far. Whether there are more remains to be seen but they aren't likely to have more than us because their infantry has smaller squads, had to buy all the halftracks and German Infantry in general is more expensive than US AFAIK.

I might be off-base here, but I think we should be a bit careful about meta-gaming based on what we have seen and assuming equal starting values

Grey Hunter posted:

Anything that runs just on treads - so tanks, Tank killers and self propelled guns.

EDIT!

I feel I should tell you that you will be up against it a bit here, your starting rules are harsher than the Germans, but they will get poorer quailty reinforcements, so you will see a shift after this battle.

So if you feel like things are stacked against you, they are, but know every valuable machine you destroy here will probibly never be seen again!

He might just be saying we have more restrictive composition rules from him, but I also feel like we should consider the possibility that the sides themselves are mis-matched in either value or rarity. In other words, we know what we know, but we shouldn't assume we know what we don't know.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Comstar posted:

M36 Tank Destroyers

The tank that is bogged (no thanks to higher command ordering it into a swamp. Russian circa 1941 battalion commanders would approve of such an order) will HIDE and FACE North East (pretty much directly at the Hellcat NE of it). Maybe it can be a surprise if they try and get around our eastern flank. ( I will stop hiding if something gets closer to it's LOS).

The tank that can still move will move FAST (think orange line) to be just slightly up the road from the Hellcat's current position already there, STOP and FACE up the highway North (blue line). If there's a Hellcat in front of the position, try and place the tank to the left side of the road so it has a view north without putting it's 90mm gun up the back side of it.



Is it Bogged or Immobilized? If it's just Bogged there is a chance they can unstick it.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

glynnenstein posted:

It's immobilized. It's going to be one of the memorial tanks you see in the middle of towns in the Ardennes to this day.

:911::hf::france:

Hubis fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Aug 21, 2018

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Orders: B Company, 2nd Platoon



More or less the same as before, but modified to be all QUICK.

1st Squad: Travel QUICK across the stream and north of the trees, cut across the field and into the woods
2nd Squad + 4th Squad A-Team: Travel QUICK then south along the edge of the woods, entering towards the eastern peninsula.
3rd Squad + 4th Squad B-Team: Travel QUICK to the stream, then cut east along the stream, using the hill for cover
5th Squad: Travel QUICK to the nearby copse of trees, then cut across the middle and proceed to the next cluster.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
B Company, 2nd Platoon

All Units: reduce to pace to MOVE


(I forget if "A" or "B" is the scout team when you split squads -- my map assumes "B" is the scout team and "A" is the rest of the squad)

1st Squad: SPLIT SCOUT team off, then MOVE to the edge of the central outcropping of the woods as depicted, in between 2nd and 3rd Squad's ultimate destinations.
2nd Squad: SPLIT SCOUT team off, then MOVE the scout team to the edge of the woods on the far eastern flank and MOVE the rest of the squad to the edge of the woods slightly further west.
3rd Squad: SPLIT SCOUT team off, then MOVE the scout team up along the edge of the stream while the rest of the squad WAITS 30s and then MOVES to a position slightly behind the scout team's destination.
4th Squad, A Team: MOVE NNE into the woods, then rest in the woods behind the final position of 2nd Squad's main force.
4th Squad, B Team: MOVE east along the stream and rest in the cover behind the final position of 3rd Squad's main force.
5th Squad: MOVE as indicated across the field and into the woods, proceeding into the clearing in the middle of the woods behind 1st and 2nd Squad's final positions.

habeasdorkus posted:



PAUSE for 60 seconds, then ROUTE PURPLE, ending up facing EAST on Zion Road.



Pending confirmation from my CO, but added to the move list.

Yeah, I was about to mention it looks like there are some good keyhole positions along that road where my platoon is moving.

Hubis fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Aug 26, 2018

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Acebuckeye13 posted:

*Two AFVs? That's right fuckers, not only did that Hellcat kill a Hummel, the shot went right through and killed the one behind it. That same Hellcat is also a second away from blasting a halftrack full of dudes, so suffice it to say we're off to a good start.

no way

e: lol

Hubis fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 26, 2018

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Fray posted:

Pretty sure there are smoke shells going off around the TDs, you can see it in the birdseye shot. I expect the Germans will chill for a minute or two while the smoke develops, then move across the highway. Tanks will move onto the road facing south to pop us if we're still there when the smoke clears.

looking at the replay, I also imagine they are moving a tank into position to pop anything trying to advance forward into the smoke through that gap in the woods to the NE.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Grey Hunter posted:

It is to late for the pebbles to give orders

:f5:

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Bacarruda posted:

:siren:
The MMGs in the Everglades are NOT deployed. Please deploy them so they can shoot.

This is, for the moment at least, intentional. There honestly aren't many iseful plsces for a machine gun store the moment, as anywhere with good sightlines on possible avenues of motion for the enemy are either at extreme range or wide open to supporting fire from the Eastern hills. I'm staying mobile for now and hoping to get a better idea where to set up my base of fire.

It isn't quite clear what the long-term plan is for this side of our front, but I suspect I will end up providing support and/or preparing to ambush any attempts at vehicle pushes through this area.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Bacarruda posted:

Cool. Your MGs are currently in really good positions in the Everglades with decent sightlines to the NE. Well done on that count.

No problem, better to have the info than not!

So to expand on my statement from earlier:

I am concerned that any position I have in the Everglades / along the road will be untenable if we do not preserve our TD units.

It's not immediately obvious from the map, but the Everglades and the area between the Highway and Joshua Tree is all one big depression, and there is very little meaningful cover towards the east. Meanwhile, the eastern side of the road is a large, open hill which would provide excellent sight lines for an attacker's armored vehicles to overwatch any position I might take. So while there might be good MG positions in the abstract, I am concerned that should they actually be needed (the enemy moves infantry forward in advance of an armored push on that flank) they would be very easily suppressed and killed. Meanwhile, the potential enemy armor positions are far outside of practical range for my infantry AT weapons.

I'd like to set up fire support positions that have good views of the potential avenues of attack (and/or ones that I can move up to support any pushes into the town, should it come to that) but which are protected from view to the east. I need to do some in-game digging to figure that out -- the game does not make any of that convenient (seriously, how hard can it possibly be to fix the Target line?).

Basically, these are my imagined orders for future contingencies (pending real instruction from Baker Actual)

quote:

Best case scenario: A push on Noville

MG teams would move into positions to provide overwatch and suppress enemy infantry in the southern buildings, while my squads would advance up along the road to provide recon and force protection. My mortar team can potentially get direct LOS from some of the rises around Joshua Tree or to the east of Everglades (I am not sure how important direct LOS or range is to the 61mm mortars).

In this case I'm still vulnerable to overwatch from the hillside east of the road, and would need the TDs to threaten the enemy armor and deny them good positions.

quote:

Worst Case Scenario: A combined-arms push along the south-eastern flank

I imagine this would involve moving their heavy armor across the road between Everglades and Petrified Forest. At the moment there's not much I can do to prevent them from occupying the eastern side of the road, however I can reposition my AT teams in ambush positions in the hedges and streams to deny them a fast path through the center, and try to position my MG and infantry in positions to recon their movements and prevent them from flushing out the AT teams.

The goal here would be to draw them into knife fight range, and I'd need the TDs to prevent them from swinging far to the south (though that immobilized hellcat will help!)

So in either case, I'm either going to be moving up or falling back. I suspect their main plan will be to use their heavy armor superiority to control the open area to the East/Southeast, push infantry across the north, and then creep their armor southward to support an advance from Noville through the woods to envelop Cobru.

Also: as mentioned earlier, I could use some advice from people with in-game experience on what I need to do to best position the 61mm mortars.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
I would just like to take a moment to point out that this particular situation with the vehicles is the precise definition of "outnumbered and outgunned", and that there is no inherent need to hold the road in the long term(instead of simply trying to use ambush tactics to deny it to the enemy instead).

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Grey Hunter posted:





https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf8w1bankgkszmx/LP%20Battle%201%20At10.bts?dl=0

48 hours for turns!

Rule Update.
commanders may declare the following at any point in the game.

Ceasefire. The other side will be notified that you are wishing to end the fighting for now. If both sides agree, the next battle will be fought on the same map, but with reinforcements and deployment zones based off ground held.
Retreat Immediately break contact and end the battle. the enemy will advance to your next map, and become the attacker.

You sure know how to end them!

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Bacarruda posted:

The German northern left hook throws a bit of a monkey wrench into things. They're sprinting at least two platoons of infantry (and possibly an entire company) across Death Valley. They have a large number of tanks (2 King Tigers, ~5-10 Panthers, a Brummbar) and appx. a company of halftracks with mounted infantry perfect for reinforcing this push.

If their effort succeeds, they can take Acadia, storm Vicksburg, and assault Cobru from three sides.

To prevent this - we need to do three things:

1) Punish the Germans - move the Shermans (Acebuckeye13), Able Company (gradenko_2000), and the Machinegun Platoon (Mantis42) into Northern Cobru to throw enfilading fire into the Germans crossing Death Valley.
2) Access Denial - use artillery and mortars hitting Death Valley and Acadia to prevent the Germans from getting a foothold there.
3) Containment - move the Straggler Group (Top Hats Monthly) into Vicksburg and elements of Able Company (gradenko_2000) into NW Cobru to prevent any German who get into Acadia from breaking out.

Here's a battalion-level maneuver plan that accomplishes this. Gnoman, what do you think?



So one thing to keep in mind is that we should avoid having a "win or die" mindset here, especially based on what Grey has said:

Grey Hunter posted:

Rule Update.
commanders may declare the following at any point in the game.

Ceasefire. The other side will be notified that you are wishing to end the fighting for now. If both sides agree, the next battle will be fought on the same map, but with reinforcements and deployment zones based off ground held.
Retreat Immediately break contact and end the battle. the enemy will advance to your next map, and become the attacker.

and from the first page:

Grey Hunter posted:

5 - Your reinforcements will be coming, if you can hold or push back the enemy, we will be able to harden up your unit and begin to supply better units, failure to hold will mean you will have to make do with more straggler units.
6 - Bogged and abandoned units will only be reclaimed if you hold the field.

Grey Hunter posted:

I feel I should tell you that you will be up against it a bit here, your starting rules are harsher than the Germans, but they will get poorer quailty reinforcements, so you will see a shift after this battle.

So if you feel like things are stacked against you, they are, but know every valuable machine you destroy here will probibly never be seen again!

I feel like our primary objective should be to force the Germans into a ceasefire -- that would be a huge victory for us. Barring that, we should attempt to do as much damage to the german armored force as possible while still preserving our forces for an eventual retreat in a fighting withdrawal action. To me this means ambushes and "hit and run" tactic rather than trying to hold any particular piece of ground.

The important thing in my mind is that there is going to be another map, and losses (ours and theirs) will affect what's available.

Hubis fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 29, 2018

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Bacarruda posted:

Where to we withdraw to? There's nothing but open ground south of us, open geound the Germans can see if they take Acadia or Cobru.

Do our infantry have the mobility or firepower to hit or run from halftracks and tanks?

We hold good terrain now. Sure, we can try a defense in depth by using the houses in Cobru and Sequoia and Joshua Tree. But running is not an option.

No, I believe we literally just say "we retreat" in the thread and Grey Hunter starts a new map with reinforcements. Our reinforcements get better if we hold (and we can recover immobilized vehicles!) or are more stragglers if we retreat, but the Germans don't replace lost vehicles from their pool no matter what (though their pool might include more stuff not on the map).

This is not to question anything you suggested, btw -- I think you presented a good situational overview/plan; my point was more that we should also keep in mind the multi-mission campaign as well. If the Germans force us to retreat but it costs them a ton of vehicles to do so that may effectively be a win.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Baker Company, 2nd Platoon



Movin' On Up!

[Grey Hunter: please *cancel* all orders -- I think 3rd squad is stuck on a wait that should have been finished already but is irrelevant now anyways]

1st Squad: MOVE out of the woods and across the stream, then QUICK across the road. Proceed to MOVE through the woods to the edge as indicated.
2nd Squad: MOVE to the edge of the woods in advance of 1st Squad's previous position
3rd Squad: Proceed QUICK to the woods to the north, then MOVE at a deliberate pace to final location
4th Squad, A Team: QUICK to the other side of the road, then MOVE to the edge of the woods where you should have a vantage down the eastern side of Sequoia. FACE northeast and DEPLOY at the destination.
4th Squad, B Team: MOVE forward to the edge of the woods, FACE north and DEPLOY.
5th Squad: MOVE to the far side of the stream, then QUICK across the road, and then MOVE through the forest to the clearing behind 1st Squad.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Comstar posted:

We need to pull the Sherman back. Maybe the northern hellcat can get a flank shot, or wait till they commit?

I need a place to put my M36 for a ambush on their armour coming towards us.

I'm hoping the tank crewman down south can keep an eye on that King Tiger too.

The bailed out dudes don't have a radio, right?

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Stairmaster posted:

it's labor day you bourgie scum

I celebrated Labor Day back in May, jokes on you Gov't

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Jaguars! posted:

Well, it's not easy. IMO the woods south of Noville need to be denied to the Germans which is what Glynn's company is doing, and it's the best way to get troops to Noville proper. Moving infantry Cobru -> Noville is would be a slaughter and unlikely to achieve anything. I did underestimate the distance between the two towns a bit though, so we might be able to infiltrate forwards a little bit.

Just me spitballing here, but I feel like the biggest risk to us right now (without consulting the map again) is that they can creep their armor into increasingly aggressive and mutually supporting positions in the open are to the north and provide direct fire into Cobru. Given we are down quite a few tanks and have no other effective way of challenging their armor at range, we need to be very careful about conserving and coordinating our remaining tanks to win any duels and prevent them from establishing armored superiority. If that happens then it's game over for us, no matter how many platoons you pack into the town. If they have the armor advantage they could just march their dismounted infantry, supportred by big guns in the rear and halftrack MGs up close, due south without ever having to mess with the woods.

That being said, I given that I don't think our hand is very good right now to begin with trying to create some opportunities/seize the initiative by applying pressure elsewhere (i.e. through the woods towards Noville) seems as good of a plan as any. I don't know if it makes sense to do a full assault on the town itself, but we need to keep moving, expanding our lines, and occupying every bit of cover we can if only as a means of denying safe areas for their armor to operate. We are a far less mobile force, and the worst thing we can possibly do is hunker down in positions and let them bottle us in. Ideally we'd get some infantry up to the woods in the NE to support that lone TD and challenge them trying to encircle Cobru, but the window for that may have already closed.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Pretty sure considering our force comp that window was never open to begin with.

Yeah I was under the impression we could have mounted some of the squads en desant but apparently you can only do that with mechanized infantry.

Jaguars! posted:

One advantage we have is that the pressure is on the Germans. They took a town, but they will be aware that if they don't take a big chunk out of our fighting force then we'll actually be stronger in the next game.

Yeah. Honestly, if we just fight them to a ceasefire on this map I think that's a win for us.

Jaguars! posted:

So what we want to do is lure the germans into bad positions in their search for us. If they can't see anything in their present places, then they have to move forward and that's when we can give them a bloody nose.

If the germans remain passive, then probing toward Noville helps force the issue and forces them to redeploy.


Tank wise, we should be fighing a delaying action - Lay an ambush, shoot once, scoot back to a new position, lay an ambush... this is how you multiply the effectiveness of one tank. Harriet is in a position that looks ok on them map, but what is the field of fire like? Where are you going to go after the ambush is sprung?

bunnyofdoom posted:

That is a really good point. All I had thought about is popping a tank. Perhaps maybe I move backwards along the tree line, forcing any attempt to hunt me to chase me, and draw them closer to our bazookas?>

This is really what we should be trying to do, I think. Move our infantry up for spotting/ambush positions and find good keyhole spots that allow us to shoot and scoot as they move their armor forward. If they get aggressive and we're able to take some pot shots with bazookas, then mission accomplished.

I think right now it's important that we preserve what armor we have left as a "force in being".

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

lol

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Hey, the tank crew by the main highway has recovered. We could run them to the other side of the road and see if they are able to spot anything...

glynnenstein posted:

I'll have some re-worked orders for Baker in a few hours. Bad news is walking is slow, so it's taking a while. The good news is everyone has recovered fatigue so we can jog for a while again.

I noticed my 3rd Squad/MG team are actually under small arms fire (they've ended up a bit closer to the edge of the woods than I had planned...)

Looking at the situation, I'm going to bring up my rear squads and consolidate in Sequoia.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Jaguars! posted:

Intel T17



A: Both panthers moved forward one after the other. One bright side to this is that they no longer have buildings or hedges hiding their sides.
B: Again, both panthers moved forward a little. The Brummbar is located at the right hand X.
C: Dammit, another one? How many of the drat things have they got? It's located well too. This is it's view toward the woods:

I didn't realize that the woods were on a forward slope like that. That makes it a little harder to get into Noville, althugh we should still make sure we own the part of the woods back from the crest. There is also infantry in the building next to it:

Who can see this infantry?

D: Halftrack presumably moving backup to shore up the flanks.
E: Tiger probably heading for the south bit of town
F: Stationary halftracks.

I think that infantry may be the ones taking pot shots at my MG squad that got moved a bit too close to the edge of the woods

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Jaguars! posted:

I cant point out much, but here's a closer view of the town



We hit the germans crossing the field pretty hard, I think. There were two groups visible and both got hit by the sherman quite a bit. One retreated a bit which indicates we killed enough of them to cause a panic. I do plan to push some scouts forward of the Hellcat but it's going to take a while to get there.

I think that might have actually bought us enough time that we could Hustle more of the stragglers on the Left Flank up into Acadia. The angles and elevations are such that I don't think the Panthers have good OverWatch that far out semicolon getting a few squads up there to both contest the woods and act as forward spotters for the rest of our forces could be really helpful.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Baker Company, 2nd Platoon



2nd Squad: Proceed QUICK to the stream, then along the stream to take up a position on the bridge.
4th Squad, B-Team: Limber your weapon and proceed QUICK across the stream to a temporary position in cover on the down-hill side of the road just south of the bridge.


1st Squad: Proceed QUICK through the woods to a position just south of the little clearing. This should give you excellent visibility onto the Eastern edge of Sequoia and the Southern edge of Noville.
4th Squad, A-Team: Hot contact! I know you are tired, but proceed QUICK Southeast along the tree-line about 10m to break contact, then move into deeper cover. DEPLOY at the indicated location and FACE towards Noville.
5th Squad: Proceed QUICK to the wooded clearing just West of 1st Squad's ultimate position.


3rd Squad: CANCEL all orders [with backspace -- this should allow splitting]. SPLIT SCOUT team.
3rd Squad, A-Team: Return fire! TARGET AREA around the nearest building East of the highway.
3rd Squad, B-Team: Get some forward spotting on enemy positions in anticipation of moving our center of gravity northward. Proceed QUICK across the clearing about 20m into the woods, then approach SLOW the eastern edge of the woods (remaining at least 10m within cover).

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
It's worth noting that the scattered copses between Noville and Cobru are not nearly as open as it appears on the overhead map, especially given the backs of those houses have some pretty solid hedge walls. It's also not clear from overhead, but there's some degree of elevation change that you can definitely take advantage of. You could move some scout teams pretty far NE to serve as tripwires, and possibly an AT team or two if you can find good positions to ambush and then fall back.

Those houses are going to become death traps if their tanks can advance to the point where they can area fire on them. If we plan on fighting them in the town then we'd be better off placing only light presence in the outermost buildings and have a plan for ambushing them with AT weapons as they advance inward.

If we want to fight them from the town to prevent their infantry from even getting a foothold then we need to screen against tanks forward from those positions. Keeping our AT weapons next to our and the bulk of our infantry doesn't work -- we've only got 175m range on those bazookas, and we're ideally going to want to be firing them from a direction perpendicular to the tanks' approach to the town. Personally, I'd suggest picking at least a few squads and splitting them up into point teams, AT teams, and cover/fire support and creeping them out into the No-Man's Land. Scout forward to spot enemy movement, sneak the AT teams into position, and then ambush and pull back, with the fire support teams there to guard against the enemy infantry screen. Take a "Defense In Depth" approach and fall back in a planned fashion, hopefully causing some attrition among the enemy as you do. In Cobru, pick a few hard points to set up MGs to support the fallback and set up secondary positions.

It's important to start thinking about this now because HUNT and SLOW (aka sneaky) movement is both tiring and slow. If we don't move into those positions soon (especially given the smoke screen that is apparently dropping) then we will have given up the opportunity to use them.

Besides, who wants to live forever?

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

TehKeen posted:

note: once able, please split off AT teams from rifle squads and keep them ~50-75m behind their respective squads away from the treeline

(and just for GH's benefit, again, you should be able to do this if you cancel the current movement orders first)

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Baker Company, 2nd Platoon



ALL SQUADS: CANCEL ORDERS

Squad 1: SPLIT TEAMS
Squad 1A: FAST SE to the edge of the woods, then QUICK to the copse of the woods to the west of the stream
Squad 1B: FAST SE to the edge of the woods, then MOVE up again to the eastermost corner of the forest
Squad 1C: FAST to the edge of the woods, then QUICK across the stream to the trees indicated

Squad 2: SPLIT TEAMS
Squad 2A: QUICK to the copse of trees west of the river just south of the bend
Squad 2B: FAST up along the river bed into the trees just SE of the stream bend

Squad 3A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ8lpCQbyw

Squad 3B: Hold position and rest while the rest of the company reinforces your position.

Squad 4A: CANCEL ORDERS (I think there's still a SLOW movement there) and MOVE back in the direction indicated as quickly as possible (I think MOVE is the fastest they can go)
Squad 4B: MOVE up along the west side of the stream behind 2nd Squad's advance

Squad 5: Fall back due S as quickly as possible (QUICK for 5A, FAST for 5B) and then head E to the tree-line.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
There is essentially nothing but an immobilized Jackson preventing them from driving right across open terrain and completely surrounding Cobru.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
I'm probably just going to hold tight, barring no new orders. We really desperately need smoke on that building/tank location. 2nd and 4th platoons could get AT teams into range, but they have infantry in the building there that can do an excellent job of overwatch in the tanks position.

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Baker Company, 2nd Platoon

Everyone continue previous orders, EXCEPT:



2nd Platoon HQ: Advance QUICK to 2nd Squad/B-Team's position and hold tight.

2nd Squad/A-Team: Cut across the stream and MOVE up to the trees
2nd Squad/B-Team: MOVE along the trees along the S/E side of the stream

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Comstar posted:

Why didn't my tank open fire? It just sat there and ignored targets to it's front :(

Somethings seems to be wrong with our bloody tanks today.

My guess: The German units are at Crack/Elite experience level, and so are essentially Terminators that are going to do everything faster and better than our AI. There may also be some kind of spotting distance advantage, which would make it easy for them to win exactly the kind of stand-off engagements we've been trying to fight. If that's the case then it really sucks, but would explain things.
The only way to really beat that is
a) Take advantage of missteps like driving tanks into exposed positions
b) Overwhelm them with numbers, so that even if they kill one of our TDs there's another ready to return fire and hit them, ideally from different facings

They have done a good job of avoiding (a) and (b) is physically impossible right now because we lost all our TDs in the early part of the engagement and spread them out in the hopes of surprising them and winning even fights front-on rather than concentrating them and creating uneven fights.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

don't you loving dare

we have not lost all these men for nothing

This is faulty thinking.

A position has value based on what you can do with it, not what you paid for it.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

make them take this town over our loving corpses

I believe this is their plan, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv9XNFpRdhg&t=50s


Bacarruda posted:

I disagree. Our position is redeemable, if we have the guts and the brains to do the job.

We need to stop talking in abstracts.

1)What is our objective?
Hold Cobru and force a ceasefire?
Retreat after inflicting casualties to their armor support?
Inflict casualties on their manpower?


2) What is our plan to achieve the objective?
We could hope to hold Cobru if we let them pummel us until their tanks run out of HE, then fight them along the interior of the village. We honestly don't really know how much infantry support they have, but between our artillery, early half-track hits, and our own tanks plinking at them we probably did a little damage. They might have a hard time of actually pushing us out without moving their tanks into a dangerous position. might.


3) What are the potential risks of the plan?
At this point I think we've already taken some of the worst losses in terms of value by letting our entire armored wing be annihilated. We have a fairly intact A Company and a somewhat under-strength B company, and a ton of stragglers left to lose.
We also have a bunch of points in artillery that are basically a sunk cost.

Unfortunately, I think that a ton of the factors in this decision depend on what happens between battles, which we don't really know without GH telling us. How much reinforcement could we expect, and of what quality? What about the enemy? How much of our current force can we hope to roll over?

Bacarruda posted:

Casualties this turn were light. No one in Cobru was killed, besides the two men in the M36. Those buildings are strong.

This I actually agree with, somewhat. Aside from the nut-punch loss of the M36 nothing's really changed situationally, except Baker's advanced. Of course, the advanced position doesn't really help us forestall an attack because they can (and probably should) just walk over open ground across the north. But I dunno, maybe we can score a tank kill or two. I think that's about all I think we can hope for, though.

Bacarruda posted:

We can quickly fall back into central Cobru in houses their armor can't easily see. Thrn make them come to us.
To be clear, we cannot *make* them do anything. They definitely have mortars, spotting positions, and *good* views from high ground down the open avenues of Cobru. They can put a lot of fire on us. And we can hunker down in the buildings, but that's not going to help much if we are also trying to repel an assault.

Hubis fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 12, 2018

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Here's the thing: It's very likely that there's never going to be a better position for our infantry than the one they're in. The terrain around the town is an absolute dick and a half for armor-as much as they might like to, for instance, and there's no way of actually encircling us without exposing one of their tanks to side shots from the surviving Hellcat.

I certainly hope your entire argument does not hinge on the efficacy of a single M18 unsupported by infantry in an isolated position against what appears to be an entire armored platoon with mechanized infantry support.

They can neutralize the hellcat by advancing a few squads of infantry into the woods and gently applying a Panzerschreck to the side, which is precisely what they appear to be trying to do. If we had pushed units further north in a wider sweep we could challenge this, but unless we want to push those stragglers up across the open ground it's a bit late for that.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Furthermore, the only way to truly force infantry out of an urban area is through your own infantry or overwhelming artillery, which they clearly don't posses.

Direct fire HE counts as artillery, my dude.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

And if they want to sit their tanks outside of the town and try to shoot into it (Which they're limited by doing through line of sight), fine-that just makes it easier for us to drop 105mm shells on their engine decks.

You need people alive to spot the artillery for that, and if we cede the edge of the town (which we will need to do) then we can't do that. I also hope that your answer is not "drop artillery on heavily armored and highly mobile gun platforms"

Acebuckeye13 posted:

This might not be a fight we can outright win, but we've known that since the very beginning. The thing is, this is also a fight that we can't lose, so long as we keep up our nerve and don't allow the German successes with their armor to psych us out.

We've taken this ground, we're holding it, there's nothing the Germans can do but try and move forward to take it. Why make it easy for them?

Again, it's a question of cost/benefit.



GREY HUNTER: Can you refresh us on what we can hope for in terms of reinforcements in the even of either (a) a cease-fire on this map or (b) a retreat in good order?

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Some more details

This is the kind of cover our men our occupying on the edge of Cobru right now:



Here is a view of Cobru from their assault gun's current positions:

It can see roughly two rows into town.

With some quick estimation and LOS checks, here's how I view Cobru:


RED areas are those that would come under direct fire should we try to defend them from an assault. I think we need to immediately cede these positions if we intend to hold the town.
YELLOW areas are those that don't have great lines of sight from the enemy armor, but might come under fire from certain angles. We could put forward defenders here and expect to fall back in a defense in depth.

The remaining buildings are those I think we could set up defensive positions in that would serve to deny the enemy infantry control while still not exposing us to attack from stand-off ranges.

If we were to remain in Cobru, here's a quick swing at a battle plan (details subject to discussion):



RED: Able company withdraws from forward positions (under heavy smoke cover) to the positions indicated. Dotted lines would be forward squads/tank ambush teams, solid line would be our main center of gravity/fallback position. The goal would be to absorb the initial infiltration and draw them into a fight over the center courtyard in Cobru

WHITE: Baker company would preserve the flank to prevent them from moving armor in along a second axis and firing on Cobru from the high ground to the east, and position themselves to take shots of opportunity against any tanks that do push forward.

BLUE: The straggler company would try to get as many men as possible (including) AT teams into the woods to the North to deny the enemy freedom of movement around our flank. They would shift the center of their remaining forces East to act as reserves for Able Company. The buildings along the western edge of their line are of importance/interest because they provide some decent views into the enemy edge of the town (and the field to the N) that we can use to call in fire support.


- - - - - - -

Personally, I'm of the opinion that we won't be able to fight them to a cease-fire here, and I'm skeptical that we can fight extract any kind of toll on their forces that would make an attempt to hold worth it. That being said, I don't think that anything has changed appreciatively this last turn that leads us to need to abandon our positions IMMEDIATELY -- if people want to hold on and fight then I think we can wait maybe another 10 game-minutes provided that we begin to withdraw to more defensible locations. That would probably be my vote, actually. I don't think theres much I can really accomplish on the right flank, and I anticipate dying horribly, but there's always the off chance we might be able to get a tank in the crossfire of two AT teams between 2nd and 4th platoons which would be nice.

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Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...
Any observers please repost this to the German thread -- they've earned it

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