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pidan
Nov 6, 2012



.

pidan fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 19, 2019

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



JcDent posted:

You better be posting cattes every time you post something about calvinists. And modern churches.

I can't promise they'll always be cats. Chinchillas are also cute and fuzzy.

https://i.imgur.com/oDvMPyW.mp4

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Cythereal posted:

I can't promise they'll always be cats. Chinchillas are also cute and fuzzy.

https://i.imgur.com/oDvMPyW.mp4
i thought they were hamster sized


but they're not

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


pidan posted:

So what does it mean when someone says they're consecrated to ... ? Is it something you do once, like taking refuge, or is it something one has to keep doing, like, uh, a novena? Do you say a daily rosary?

Also do you get cool magic powers

you're supposed to renew your act of consecration every year on the same Marian feast day you chose. St. Louis de Montfort recommended the Annunciation as the preferred feast day to do it.

anyway how it works is that you enter into a period of prayer and fasting 33 days before a Marian feast day and then consecrate yourself to Mary during the Mass held on that day. you're essentially pledging that you will become a slave of Mary and letting her lead you to Christ. also it's generally recommended you go full ven. matt talbot with it and wear a cilice or scapular afterwards. and most people, I assume, pray the rosary daily both before and after this.

doing it on the feast of Our Lady of Sorrows has its own special prayer and is very rarely done.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


The Phlegmatist posted:

you're supposed to renew your act of consecration every year on the same Marian feast day you chose. St. Louis de Montfort recommended the Annunciation as the preferred feast day to do it.

anyway how it works is that you enter into a period of prayer and fasting 33 days before a Marian feast day and then consecrate yourself to Mary during the Mass held on that day. you're essentially pledging that you will become a slave of Mary and letting her lead you to Christ. also it's generally recommended you go full ven. matt talbot with it and wear a cilice or scapular afterwards. and most people, I assume, pray the rosary daily both before and after this.

doing it on the feast of Our Lady of Sorrows has its own special prayer and is very rarely done.

post the prayer

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.


Epicurius posted:

If it was good enough for Michelangelo, it's good enough for me.

Or, for that, matter, good enough for Zurab Tsereteli



Yeah, I'm aware of that; it is the shame of orthodoxy.

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


HEY GUNS posted:

post the prayer

quote:

Most Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, holy Queen of Martyrs and spotless Virgin, would that I could be in Heaven with thee; there to contemplate the honors rendered to thee by the Most Holy Trinity and by the whole Heavenly Court! But since I am still a pilgrim in this valley of tears, receive from me, thy unworthy servant and a poor sinner, the most sincere homage and the most perfect act of vassalage and devotion that a human creature can offer thee.

I consecrate myself to thy Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart, pierced with so many swords of sorrow, and place my poor soul therein forever. Receive me as a partaker in thy Sorrows, and never suffer that I should depart from that Cross on which thy only begotten Son expired for me and which He wishes to share with me. With thee, O Mary, I will endure all the sufferings, persecutions, adversities, failures, contradictions and infirmities, with which it will please thy Divine Son to visit me in this life.

All of them I offer to thee, in memory of the Sorrows which thou didst suffer during thy life, that every thought of my mind, every beating of my heart may henceforward be an act of compassion to thy Sorrows, and of delight for the glory thou now enjoyest in Heaven.

Since then, O Dear Mother, I now meditate thy Sorrows, and rejoice in seeing thee glorified, do thou also have compassion on me, and reconcile me to thy Son Jesus, that I may become thy true and loyal son (daughter); come on my last day and assist me in my last agony at the hour death, even as thou wert present at the Agony of thy Divine Son Jesus, that from this painful exile I may go to Heaven, there to be made partaker of thy glory. Amen.

last time this devotion was a thing was in *checks notes* ... rwanda.

Sleng Teng
May 3, 2009



Good churches, good hats, good thread.

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




cats inna church

So I never got a reply to my e-mail, but Fr. Lenin (whose name I'm not redacting because I think it's cool that my pastor's given name is Lenin...) gave basically two homilies this morning. The one after the Gospel was about how the Mass is not our invention, how we can't read the newspaper instead of the Scripture, or sing our favorite songs instead of the Psalms (this is proof Fr. Lenin has been spared some of the parishes I've attended in the US), and how if he uses his own words instead of the Eucharistic Prayer he'll just be giving us bread, and that would be like starving us.

Then there were two intercessions relating to current events - one asking for strength for the church, one for healing for victims - and then after the announcements Father stood back up and read a very long speech, about as long as his homily was, about how he was sorry and ashamed on behalf of his brother priests, how we'd all been failed by his brother priests, how he was begging us for our prayers, and also how if we ever become aware of abuse "like that" we're to call the authorities, and if we tell him instead, he'll call 911 while we're still in his office.

It was very moving, and I don't think too many other people heard my three-year-old yelling "you no scold me, I scold you!" when I asked him to hush so I could hear.

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


Yeah, our bishop delivered the homily here, apologized for his fellow bishops and reiterated our diocesan abuse policies.

I'm lucky that he isn't 1. complicit in the cover-up or 2. immediately blaming THE GAYS because either of those would make CCD quite a bit harder!

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

CountFosco posted:

Yeah, I'm aware of that; it is the shame of orthodoxy.

I thought the shame of Orthodoxy is how Orthodox leadership tends to be complicit in supporting oppressive state structures of which they have become a part, like the way the Russian Orthodox Church stirred up antisemitism and threw themselves 100% behind the Romanovs in Tsarist Russia, even when it became clear that there needed to be serious reforms, or how, during the Soviet Union, they agreed themselves to back the Soviet state in exchange for ending repression against Orthodoxy, or how now, the Russian Orthodox leadership has gotten in bed with Putin, or how the Serbian Patriarch supported Serbian militias in Bosnia in the Yugoslav Wars.

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008



CountFosco posted:

Yeah, I'm aware of that; it is the shame of orthodoxy.

I've been meaning to post this icon I got for free a few months ago:




I've been curious about it since it seems to be an image of the Father.

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008



Epicurius posted:

I thought the shame of Orthodoxy is how Orthodox leadership tends to be complicit in supporting oppressive state structures of which they have become a part, like the way the Russian Orthodox Church stirred up antisemitism and threw themselves 100% behind the Romanovs in Tsarist Russia, even when it became clear that there needed to be serious reforms, or how, during the Soviet Union, they agreed themselves to back the Soviet state in exchange for ending repression against Orthodoxy, or how now, the Russian Orthodox leadership has gotten in bed with Putin, or how the Serbian Patriarch supported Serbian militias in Bosnia in the Yugoslav Wars.

Actually, I'm the shame of Orthodoxy.

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


Slimy Hog posted:

I've been meaning to post this icon I got for free a few months ago:




I've been curious about it since it seems to be an image of the Father.

I thought these were banned in Orthodoxy.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Slimy Hog posted:

I've been curious about it since it seems to be an image of the Father.
old icons did all sorts of things and few people cared, the hyperdox can suckit

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



.

pidan fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 19, 2019

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.


Epicurius posted:

I thought the shame of Orthodoxy is how Orthodox leadership tends to be complicit in supporting oppressive state structures of which they have become a part, like the way the Russian Orthodox Church stirred up antisemitism and threw themselves 100% behind the Romanovs in Tsarist Russia, even when it became clear that there needed to be serious reforms, or how, during the Soviet Union, they agreed themselves to back the Soviet state in exchange for ending repression against Orthodoxy, or how now, the Russian Orthodox leadership has gotten in bed with Putin, or how the Serbian Patriarch supported Serbian militias in Bosnia in the Yugoslav Wars.

Nope, it's the visual depiction of the father, as this is a theological lie. All of the things that you've described are painting the Russian church in rather broad strokes. Further, you have to remember that Peter the Great dissolved the patriarchate of Moscow and leashed the church leadership directly to his will, under the influence, I might add, of western European "reformers", mainly Dutch, under his plan to "modernize" Russia.

It's not "hyperdox" to bristle at the visual depiction of the Father, because the Father is immaterial. It defies what we understand about the inscrutability of the divine, the well-known cloud of unknowing. It's a rule with a purpose, and it's a good rule, and those who break it only reinforce in the broader culture the idea that Christians think of God as an old bearded white man living in the sky. The most which is permissible is a hand appearing out of the corner.

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.


pidan posted:

Isn't the most famous orthodox icon an icon that depicts the trinity and hence the Father?



Also, when you think about it, isn't Jesus already an image of the Father? Aren't we all

Technically, those are the three angelic visitors, and thus is not depicting the trinity directly, but indirectly stands as a representation of the principle of the trinity.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


CountFosco posted:

It's not "hyperdox" to bristle at the visual depiction of the Father, because the Father is immaterial. It defies what we understand about the inscrutability of the divine, the well-known cloud of unknowing. It's a rule with a purpose, and it's a good rule, and those who break it only reinforce in the broader culture the idea that Christians think of God as an old bearded white man living in the sky. The most which is permissible is a hand appearing out of the corner.
ok but old icons did a LOT of random poo poo that you couldn't crack down on


made ok by ancient usage imo

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Aug 19, 2018

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



.

pidan fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 19, 2019

CountFosco
Jan 9, 2012

Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.


HEY GUNS posted:

ok but old icons do a LOT of random poo poo that you can't crack down on


made ok by ancient usage imo

I'm not suggesting that we "crack down" so to speak. I'm not going to send some sort of icon gestapo to round them up and burn them. All I'm saying is that the church should maintain good rules, and when people break them, recognize such icons as outside of the canonicity of icon rules. I'm well aware that the depiction of the father is an error made in good faith by genuinely pious people, but that doesn't make these depictions legitimate within the church. I certainly make far worse errors a dozen times a day, but that doesn't make it right.

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


pidan posted:

Thank you for explaining! Do you always pray the sorrowful rosary? Is that even a thing in English?

I follow the traditional rosary schedule (Sorrowful/Joyous/Glorious, etc.) and then also pray the Servite Rosary every day, which is what I think you're talking about. Sometimes called the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows or the Seven Swords Rosary.

It's not...really that popular of a devotion in the US. I think it's more popular in Africa and in continental Europe.

The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 19, 2018

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned


https://twitter.com/nbcschicago/sta...7607667712?s=21

pidan
Nov 6, 2012



.

pidan fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 19, 2019

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008




She threw what looks like a strike too!

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


Slimy Hog posted:

She threw what looks like a strike too!

Pretty sweet.


last thread posted:

I've been trying to think of a way to put this sensitively for a few days, so please understand I'm not coming from a position of looking down my nose at Catholics here.

I do think there is something inherent to the Catholic Church that has exacerbated the tendency toward cover ups. I don't think it's anything to do with celibacy. It's to do with an idea of magisterium.

Other Churches might have ignored the complaints of victims, or downplayed them, or disbelieved them, or covered them up to protect the Church. But I do think there was something particularly Catholic about trying to set up an internal justice system, to deal with abusers without the oversight or knowledge of the secular authorities.

For better or for worse, the Catholic Church behaves very differently from most other Churches. The Holy See has diplomats, it runs hospitals, it has a lawyers and bureaucrats. I feel like it was a lot easier for Catholic Bishops to feel that they were dealing with abusers, when they sent them off for a three month rest cure, before giving them a new diocese.

You can find a lot of examples of predatory ministers in the Church of England, along with ample evidence their actions were overlooked, and it is sickening. What I'm not aware of, however, are filing cabinets of evidence of abuse that were meticulously collected and never turned over to the authorities.


I think it's right both that the church deserves a lot of scorn for how they've dealt with this, and that there's been something very different with the Catholic Church. As regards this case though, the different thing seems to be exactly the filing cabinets full of records, that just turned out to be incriminating when someone actually read them.

When the scandal machine finally makes it to the kind of Southern Baptists who think all sins are equally bad, it'll get ugly.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Slimy Hog posted:

Actually, I'm the shame of Orthodoxy.
no this is

https://nypost.com/2015/10/04/kinky...-porn-sex-tape/

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

CountFosco posted:

Nope, it's the visual depiction of the father, as this is a theological lie. All of the things that you've described are painting the Russian church in rather broad strokes. Further, you have to remember that Peter the Great dissolved the patriarchate of Moscow and leashed the church leadership directly to his will, under the influence, I might add, of western European "reformers", mainly Dutch, under his plan to "modernize" Russia.

It's not "hyperdox" to bristle at the visual depiction of the Father, because the Father is immaterial. It defies what we understand about the inscrutability of the divine, the well-known cloud of unknowing. It's a rule with a purpose, and it's a good rule, and those who break it only reinforce in the broader culture the idea that Christians think of God as an old bearded white man living in the sky. The most which is permissible is a hand appearing out of the corner.

So to clarify, because I don't want to misinterpret you here, it's a morally worse thing to do to draw a picture of God than to lead a pogrom?

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


twerking on the railroad posted:

I think it's right both that the church deserves a lot of scorn for how they've dealt with this, and that there's been something very different with the Catholic Church. As regards this case though, the different thing seems to be exactly the filing cabinets full of records, that just turned out to be incriminating when someone actually read them.

When the scandal machine finally makes it to the kind of Southern Baptists who think all sins are equally bad, it'll get ugly.

well let's turn to the baptists and see what they're saying about paige patterson

quote:

We thought this was a Roman Catholic problem. The unbiblical requirement of priestly celibacy and the organized conspiracy of silence within the hierarchy helped to explain the cesspool of child sex abuse that has robbed the Roman Catholic Church of so much of its moral authority. When people said that Evangelicals had a similar crisis coming, it didn’t seem plausible — even to me. I have been president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for twenty-five years. I did not see this coming.

I was wrong. The judgment of God has come.

Judgment has now come to the house of the Southern Baptist Convention. The terrible swift sword of public humiliation has come with a vengeance. There can be no doubt that this story is not over.

We cannot blame a requirement of priestly celibacy. We cannot even point to an organized conspiracy of silence within the denominational hierarchy. No, our humiliation comes as a result of an unorganized conspiracy of silence. Sadly, the unorganized nature of our problem may make recovery and correction even more difficult and the silence even more dangerous.

uh oh

e: also, evangelicals for whatever reason like to perform their sexual violence against women instead of children which makes them much harder to compartmentalize. mark "the best way for a woman to win her husband to Christ is on her knees am I right fellas" driscoll burned his entire denomination to the ground because of his behavior but nobody talks about it for some reason.

The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Aug 20, 2018

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

Excellent homily by the priest about the grand jury report. My favorite line “This great Evil must be exposed. This great Evil must be cleansed from the Church like Christ cleansed the Temple in Jerusalem.”

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

My rampant shitposting has broke my brain beyond repair. I have no redeemable qualities and wish to be put out of my shitposting misery for good. TIA!

i went to an orthodox service today and a goon handed me some bread, am i orthodox now? i ate the bread

e: also i am very disappointed because my dad said orthodox services were hours and hours long and this was clearly like 90 minutes tops

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


Lutha Mahtin posted:

i went to an orthodox service today and a goon handed me some bread, am i orthodox now? i ate the bread

e: also i am very disappointed because my dad said orthodox services were hours and hours long and this was clearly like 90 minutes tops

you aren't orthodox until you have very strong opinions about icons one way or the other

also try out an ethiopian orthodox service if you want something longer

Keromaru5
Dec 28, 2012
For what it's worth, this is more trashy shoujo manga than trashy nerdbait hentai.


Lutha Mahtin posted:

i went to an orthodox service today and a goon handed me some bread, am i orthodox now? i ate the bread

e: also i am very disappointed because my dad said orthodox services were hours and hours long and this was clearly like 90 minutes tops
No, that's the antidoron, everybody gets that, Orthodox or not. You're not Orthodox until the priest swabs your hands with oil.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Aug 20, 2018

The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


Keromaru5 posted:

No, that's the antidoron, everybody gets that, Orthodox or not. You're not Orthodox until the priest swabs your hands with oil.

your hands? you mean the orthodox don't rub oil all over your face? weak.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

My rampant shitposting has broke my brain beyond repair. I have no redeemable qualities and wish to be put out of my shitposting misery for good. TIA!

Keromaru5 posted:

No, that's the antidoron, everybody gets that,



The Phlegmatist posted:

you aren't orthodox until you have very strong opinions about icons one way or the other

i'm for em

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Doctor Rope

Icons are sweet, what kind of dumb Byzantine bans icons.

Keromaru5
Dec 28, 2012
For what it's worth, this is more trashy shoujo manga than trashy nerdbait hentai.


The Phlegmatist posted:

your hands? you mean the orthodox don't rub oil all over your face? weak.
No, IIRC, they do your face, too. Even your ears.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Keromaru5 posted:

No, IIRC, they do your face, too. Even your ears.
yeah my priest went inside my ears

Night10194 posted:

Icons are sweet, what kind of dumb Byzantine bans icons.
this thread is def. Team Irene

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned


http://press.vatican.va/content/sal...01246.html#ingl

Papa Francesco posted:

I invite the entire holy faithful People of God to a penitential exercise of prayer and fasting, following the Lord’s command. This can awaken our conscience and arouse our solidarity and commitment to a culture of care that says “never again” to every form of abuse.

A good start. Bring on the sackcloth and ashes, and also accept the resignation of Cardinal Wuerl please.

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The Phlegmatist
Nov 24, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


It's interesting that nobody really seems to be calling for the Vatican itself to be investigated, because it looks to me like they were refusing to laicize priests accused of abuse.

Maybe people realize that every member of the laity who comes within 50 miles of the Vatican Bank ends up sleeping with the fishes, though.

e: well here we go:
https://twitter.com/frrocketdan/sta...554573947887624

The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 20, 2018

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