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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



TOOT BOOT posted:

I don't mean from the virus, I mean in a broader sense. He basically said 'I have to weigh the concern of losing people to covid versus the concern of losing people to suicide or overdose'

The other thing to consider, and this is getting way into the weeds and into territory where it should be on health departments no individual priest etc. should be expected to make the call, is that the longer this goes on the more those at-risk individuals are going to be at increased risk. It does people who need counseling no good if it's available for a few weekends because things get relaxed and then it gets extended months more because the spread worsens and people clamp down.

Basically it's the kind of public health thing that needs to be done in a measured, considered way with a lot of attention paid to the best information we have about how it's being spread.

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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


It's certainly true that we're struggling more with mental health during this time, but I would suggest caution when extending that fact to the conclusion that we should "reopen" or go back to holding normal-ish church services. The reality is that medical professionals and clergy alike must deal with both the COVID-19 crisis and an increase in mental health issues, and we should support them in those.

First, don't underestimate the frightening power of exponential growth and just how contagious this disease is. It's well documented how quickly COVID-19 can spread in a church/choir/funeral/etc setting. The pandemic hasn't been quite so bad (yet) in places that enacted social distancing, stay-at-home, mask wearing, and other measures, but ask someone from Northern Italy how things are and you'd probably get an intense reaction. I liken the situation to a pile of kindling. Right now, most places are keeping the fuel wet and making sure it doesn't pile up. If we relax measures and get a big pile of dry twigs and leaves, a spark might not land in it after all. But if it does catch a spark, the whole thing is going up in flames very rapidly. Congregations meeting for worship or other activities is playing with fire. You're risking a large portion of your community being infected all at once.

Second, be wary of the "cure can't be worse than the disease" line of reasoning. At least in the US that is a right-wing talking point used to justify loosening restrictions purely for economic (money) concerns. I'm not suggesting anyone here is endorsing that, but encouraging us all to be cautious and skeptical of that thinking. Mental health and economic concerns are valid, certainly, but when we start weighing human lives and money I think it's obvious which is more valuable from a Christian perspective. We should do our utmost to save lives from both pandemic and mental/social effects of isolation, the economy be damned.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 21, 2006

When there were five in the bed and we all rolled over I said nothing, because I would not fall off.

Josef bugman posted:

I did not know that! I don't think anyone I know, even my grandma, had anyone but family around when they passed. They did occasionally have priests visit but not for long and certainly not when they were fully in the process of dying.

It’s a important part of the education in most seminaries. Most denominations spend time in hospitals while in seminary ministering to the dying. They do this as pastors for their congregations too.

They occasionally have to do it for other faiths entirely a: you are here and nobody else is so do as best you can type situations.

It has been talked about in the thread before.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Chomsky Boi

Bar Ran Dun posted:

It’s a important part of the education in most seminaries. Most denominations spend time in hospitals while in seminary ministering to the dying. They do this as pastors for their congregations too.

They occasionally have to do it for other faiths entirely a: you are here and nobody else is so do as best you can type situations.

It has been talked about in the thread before.

I must have missed the discussion unfortunately, sorry for my ignorance. I just always assumed it was with people dying of none communicable things I suppose. Or visiting the sick but getting out of the way if there are doctors around.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Worthleast posted:

Sorry, what? People are dying!

and there's more than one Orthodox thing you do with a corpse--when the person is dying, the day after, the service at the church, the service at the grave, and a service 40 days after the death, which is when the soul finally goes to heaven. or hell.

when an Orthodox person dies that creates a lot of work for everyone else. Someone has to make the death porridge, for instance.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


WrenP-Complete posted:

In addition to being with the sick and dying, tending to the corpses of the dead (saying Psalms, washing the bodies) is one of the most sacred religious obligations in Judaism.
same with the more traditionalist branches of Orthodoxy. You can buy the clothing they put the corpse in on Etsy.
https://www.etsy.com/il-en/listing/...believer-burial

Somewhat comforting that I know exactly what will happen to my body when I die; I've been to two Orthodox funerals.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Not to be too flippant or macabre, but "death porridge" is about the most stereotypically Russian/Slavic thing I can imagine

WrenP-Complete
Jul 27, 2012



HEY GUNS posted:

same with the more traditionalist branches of Orthodoxy. You can buy the clothing they put the corpse in on Etsy.
https://www.etsy.com/il-en/listing/...believer-burial

Somewhat comforting that I know exactly what will happen to my body when I die; I've been to two Orthodox funerals.

Yes, in our tradition men lead/partake in some important services, get married, and are buried in the same kind of garment - called a kittel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kittel

(Women also are buried in a kittel but don't use them for those other purposes)

They look similar between the traditions.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Fritz the Horse posted:

Second, be wary of the "cure can't be worse than the disease" line of reasoning. At least in the US that is a right-wing talking point used to justify loosening restrictions purely for economic (money) concerns. I'm not suggesting anyone here is endorsing that, but encouraging us all to be cautious and skeptical of that thinking. Mental health and economic concerns are valid, certainly, but when we start weighing human lives and money I think it's obvious which is more valuable from a Christian perspective. We should do our utmost to save lives from both pandemic and mental/social effects of isolation, the economy be damned.
I want to lead this by saying that I agree with your perspective and with the two paragraphs I edited out.

I think in this specific context, the thought is about the people who are being told that what was a couple of weeks (fine) and then has been a couple of months, will certainly be a couple of months more, quite likely more like a year, possibly multiple years, and could be "forever, or at least, for the rest of this life."

Now I doubt it will actually come to pass like that (though a couple months/a year total time frame don't seem implausible) but in the west at least we have managed to go a hundred years without an epidemic like this, so nobody much really knows about this in their bones.

e: what would probably be one of the greatest boons a religious group could do for its members, based on my on-the-ground herbivore judgment, is to have someone prepare a regular update with links on the state of play with health and vaccine/treatment news, ideally presenting psychological grounds for optimism in an honest way. It probably wouldn't drive clicks but it could save suffering.

Nessus fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 23, 2020

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Fritz the Horse posted:

Not to be too flippant or macabre, but "death porridge" is about the most stereotypically Russian/Slavic thing I can imagine
greek originally! older than Christianity, possibly older than writing.

this is not the greatest wikipedia entry, but look at this mystery-cult-rear end poo poo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koliva

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

The tattoo megathread is currently on page 666 and so there’s a whole bunch of baphomet/satan tats being posted. In case you’re interested.

WrenP-Complete
Jul 27, 2012



Nessus posted:

e: what would probably be one of the greatest boons a religious group could do for its members, based on my on-the-ground herbivore judgment, is to have someone prepare a regular update with links on the state of play with health and vaccine/treatment news, ideally presenting psychological grounds for optimism in an honest way. It probably wouldn't drive clicks but it could save suffering.

Hm, I could help with this. My hours were cut in half by work and I'm helping with a public health outreach project to make coronavirus science news more accessible to lay people anyway. I wonder what's already being done in terms of disseminating that to faith communities.

Tias
May 25, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


HEY GUNS posted:

and there's more than one Orthodox thing you do with a corpse--when the person is dying, the day after, the service at the church, the service at the grave, and a service 40 days after the death, which is when the soul finally goes to heaven. or hell.

when an Orthodox person dies that creates a lot of work for everyone else. Someone has to make the death porridge, for instance.

Tell me more about death porridge

E: f, you already posted the link. Interesting stuff!

Tias fucked around with this message at 11:48 on May 24, 2020

Bhurak
Nov 12, 2007

Playing music in the key of HIP!


Fun Shoe

My wife's family is of Ukrainian descent and they make this for (orthodox) Christmas.

Pershing
Feb 21, 2010

John "Black Jack" Pershing
Hard Fucking Core



Could I ask folks to add 50s Girl Groupon to your prayers? Maybe reach out too?

She (he?...I'm unsure on pronouns) is going thru lymphoma and it sounds about 10 times worse than my cancer experience. Reading that diary thread has brought up a lot of the old feels for me. I remember people reaching out and the joy that brought me...maybe we could give 50s Girl some of that.

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Health update: I beat the kidney infection. Weird side effect from Covid: I no longer have any sense of smell. No, really, I can't smell anything at all!

So physically, I'm recovering and doing fine under the circumstances. Being out of breath is still something that is slowly, S L O W L Y getting better.

Mentally on the other hand...not doing good at all. Two years of exactly ZERO social contact (No, really, it has been more than two years since I last spoke to another human being in real life, and it's been more than one year since my phone rang) is taking it's toll on me.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The general increasing love of athletics is benefiting our young men, and making their lives better and more worth the living.

BattyKiara posted:

Health update: I beat the kidney infection. Weird side effect from Covid: I no longer have any sense of smell. No, really, I can't smell anything at all!

So physically, I'm recovering and doing fine under the circumstances. Being out of breath is still something that is slowly, S L O W L Y getting better.

Mentally on the other hand...not doing good at all. Two years of exactly ZERO social contact (No, really, it has been more than two years since I last spoke to another human being in real life, and it's been more than one year since my phone rang) is taking it's toll on me.

Well, it's good to know that your world doesn't stink anymore.

I don't know or understand your situation and why you can't interact with people, but you remain in my prayers. May the presence of God comfort you. You've obviously been through a lot.

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned


Batty, are you a researcher somewhere or perhaps a Desert Father?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


BattyKiara posted:

Health update: I beat the kidney infection. Weird side effect from Covid: I no longer have any sense of smell. No, really, I can't smell anything at all!
That's the virus in your olfactory nerves. You may recover.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Worthleast posted:

Batty, are you a researcher somewhere or perhaps a Desert Father?
She's in Witness Protection

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned



Whoops. Desert Mother then.

Hopefully we can provide some social interaction. Do you like knock-knock jokes?

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Hey Guns had it right. And yes, I like silly jokes.

Did you hear about the shapeshifting tractor? It turned into a field!

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Why did future chief justice Snoop Dogg carry an umbrella with him? For drizzle.

Why is Quentin Tarantino directing the next Flintstones cartoon? he knows about needing feet to go

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned


Did you hear about the new Pirate movie?

It's rated PG-13.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Why do Buddhists not vacuum the corners? no attachments

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




What costume did the pickup wear for Halloween? A monster truck!

What has four wheels and flies? A garbage truck!

How do trucks cook dinner? On their grills!

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



Soiled Meat

Boy it's like a neverending struggle trying to deal with toxic relatives while trying to be equanimous and forgiving.

Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015



Fritz the Horse posted:

It's certainly true that we're struggling more with mental health during this time, but I would suggest caution when extending that fact to the conclusion that we should "reopen" or go back to holding normal-ish church services. The reality is that medical professionals and clergy alike must deal with both the COVID-19 crisis and an increase in mental health issues, and we should support them in those.

I think the thing we need to accept is that "normal" doesn't exist any more. How does the Church look in this new world? Like to stick to administration of the sacrament we have to accept that chances are for the next few years churches get to choose two out of: 1) regular communion 2)the common cup 3)not killing your congregation

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Fallen Rib

zonohedron posted:

What costume did the pickup wear for Halloween? A monster truck!

What has four wheels and flies? A garbage truck!

How do trucks cook dinner? On their grills!

zonohedron why do you know so many truck jokes?!

Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015



zonohedron posted:

What costume did the pickup wear for Halloween? A monster truck!

What has four wheels and flies? A garba#ge truck!

How do trucks cook dinner? On their grills!

My uncle was a big fan of tractors. He had about twenty sitting in his yard, in various states of repair. Tractor parts in the sink, sump oil on the rug, his house was a real state. One day my aunt sat him down. She said "it's these tractors or me."

My uncle was bummed, but he loved his wife. So he phoned a dealer, and sold every one of those tractors.

He made a bit of money by it as well. He took his fistfull of notes, and went down to the local pub.

He was pretty sad about losing his tractors, but he wanted to spread the wealth a bit. He bought everyone pints, but he wasn't feeling any happier. He sat in the corner smoking and drinking.

The air above his head was thick with a fug of booze, cigarette smoke and sadness.

Suddenly he stood up. He took a deep breath, and inhaled all that smoke and beer smell and fumes, and walked outside and breathed it all into the sky.

The air in the pub was as clear as champagne.

"How the hell did you do that?" the barman said.

"It's not hard when you're an ex-tractor fan" my uncle replied.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!



Lipstick Apathy


This got a belly laugh out of me.

The Dalai Lama walks into a pizzaria and says "please make me one with everything"

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

Nth Doctor posted:

The Dalai Lama walks into a pizzaria and says "please make me one with everything"

The worker responded “that’ll be $4.50.” The Dalai Lama handed over five dollars. “My change?,” the Dalai Lama asked? The worker responded, “Change must come from within.”

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!



Lipstick Apathy

Thirteen Orphans posted:

The worker responded “that’ll be $4.50.” The Dalai Lama handed over five dollars. “My change?,” the Dalai Lama asked? The worker responded, “Change must come from within.”

Ah, I see you are also well cultured

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

“Physically impossible!”

https://youtu.be/xlIrI80og8c

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

Nessus posted:

Why do Buddhists not vacuum the corners? no attachments

I posted this original joke in an old Buddhism thread:

“Have you heard about the Sutra that denies the existence of Avalokiteshvara? It’s considered by most to be non-Kannon-ical.

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




HopperUK posted:

zonohedron why do you know so many truck jokes?!

My younger son loves vehicles. One of his "all about trucks" books - I think it's actually by National Geographic? - has a groaner like that on every page. I used to be able to skip reading those when that book was selected as the book read at bedtime, but my older son insists I read the jokes, too. These days I've been reading Ann Leckie's Ancillary trilogy, with occasional ad lib editing; inadvertantly on-topic for the thread because the one I'm reading right now is Ancillary Sword, which starts with the point of view character arriving on a space station where the locals are celebrating a solemn religious holiday with meditation, song, and decorating the corridors with sparkly garlands of neon penises. (I did not read any of the description of the Genitalia Festival aloud.)

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Let's have some religious jokes in the religion thread:

Three pets went to Heaven, and God asks each of them "What did you believe in life to make you worthy of Heaven?"

The large dog answers: I believed in guarding my master from harm and protected his home from robbers.

"Very well, you are worthy of Heaven, come in"

The small dog answers: I believed in keeping my master happy, and in comforting him when he felt sad.

"You are a good boy, welcome to Heaven"

The cat answers: I believe, God, that you are sitting in my seat right now, so move!

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




"Jokes for starting a sermon" is a... well, it's a google search, for sure.

quote:

Little Susie was watching her father, a pastor, write a sermon.

"How do you know what to say?" she asked.

"Why, God tells me."

"Oh, then why do you keep crossing things out?"

quote:

A preacher was completing a temperance sermon: with great expression he said, "If I had all the beer in the world, I'd take it and throw it into the river."

With even greater emphasis, he said, "And if I had all the wine in the world, I'd take it and throw it into the river."

And then, finally, he said, "And if I had all the whiskey in the world, I'd take it and throw it into the river." He sat down.

The song leader then stood very cautiously and announced with a pleasant smile, "For our closing song, let us sing Hymn #365: 'Shall We Gather At the River.'"

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


https://twitter.com/bethbourdon/sta...702232227971072

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HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


https://orthodoxia.info/news/a-note...ommunion-spoon/

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