Religionthread: Mass at 5am so we can have breakfast earlier

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Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I can't dislike pretty churches even with the fact that I'm not a very visual person and usually prefer plainness.

There is a love for God and a desire to be inspired to beauty that just speaks to me in them.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2018 00:42

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 04:46

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Icons are sweet, what kind of dumb Byzantine bans icons.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2018 04:36

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Could I ask you to pray for my attempts to get back into Grad School? I've made the decision to go back and study theology and I find trying to look for schools, sort recommendations, all of it terrifying.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 15:49

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

St. Dismas/Jesus buddy action movie.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2018 00:44

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

My last D&D PC was a Lawful Good Truenamer/Paladin Gestalt, who was allowed to do that because Truenamer was so bad it added nothing to his character except wonderful flavor.

It was fun.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2018 00:51

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Paul is a fascinating figure because I'm not sure Christianity as a religion would've survived without his tremendous success as a missionary, but I'm never sure how I feel about his actual teaching and character.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2018 22:07

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Well, also, Paul was writing to communities that were coming up with theological and practical problems because the entire practice of the religion was new. He was trying to answer questions they had about what to do in dilemmas they had with their new faith.

E: Actually the whole bit in Jesus Christ superstar about 'why did you come at this time and in this nation, before mass communication' is missing that the historical moment when Christ arrived actually DID present almost unprecedented mobility and freedom to travel and preach throughout the regions of the Roman Empire at that time.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Aug 27, 2018

# ¿ Aug 27, 2018 22:13

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The other thing is the main thing I can be sure of about him, from what I know of the man, is that his conversion was extremely sincere (unless all the biblical sources are totally inaccurate somehow) and that he really thought the return of Christ was imminent and that one of the most important things in the world was spreading the word of salvation as fast and far as he could.

Like, he makes sense. He's got problems but I feel like I kind of understand him as a person as much as we can understand a person from their writings and a few other writings about them thousands of years later.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2018 23:29

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

HEY GUNS posted:

calvinism is the most evil ideology imo

I have no idea how Calvinism caught on.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2018 22:21

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

It just seems designed to inflict maximum misery, either by someone who is certain they're saved regardless and so can justify whatever awful poo poo they want to do, or by other people driving themselves to distraction fretting over if they're saved or not and trying to confirm it for themselves by conforming like mad.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2018 22:25

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

pidan posted:

Also near my hometown a robber knight was captured but escaped when he offered to jump over the castle moat with his horse and subsequently actually did manage to pull it off.

I'm gonna say the robber knight was totally justified in his escape entirely on the principle of it being cool as heck.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2018 22:38

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The Phlegmatist posted:

I'm out. I've deleted all my social media accounts, and this will be the last one.

The Seven Sorrows do not gently caress around. I cried the first time I attended Mass seeing Christ up on the cross, which I guess would be an embarrassing thing to happen to an ex-Calvinist. That went away after a few Sunday Masses. And then I started up with the Servite Rosary two years later and the tears immediately came back when I attended Mass. I'm a weird data scientist STEMlord, I have no idea what's going on with that.

Just be good. Don't let other people get to you. Take the locus of control and put it inside yourself whenever you hear something that aggrieves you and then partake in the healing sacraments of your church. It takes a lot of effort for a person to be both their statue and their sculptor, but we have a little trick in the fact that grace abounds.

Bye.

Good luck and God be with you out there, internet friend. We'll miss you.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2018 13:12

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also some of them have basically accidentally recreated a faith-based eschaton without (probably) meaning to, complete with the resurrection of the dead (in the form of belief in Cryonics) and a grand judgment by the new computer god.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2018 17:21

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

HEY GUNS posted:

well if it's people from Jewish or Christian backgrounds who are getting incredibly emotionally heated up and inventing these things, what they invent is likely to have a Jewish or Christian form, if not content.

Yes, but it's still fascinating. A religious yearning in someone who associates religion with stupidity and thinks they're too smart to be religious.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2018 17:54

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tias posted:

Starting my early christianity course today, we've already talked about Desert Fathers and the Syrian church

Early Christianity (and 2nd Temple Judaism) both totally rule to study. The early church is fascinating because the traditions aren't set yet and no-one around them has any idea how to react to them. Like the Letter of Trajan to Pliny where they're like 'The hell are these guys, what do we do with them.'

# ¿ Sep 19, 2018 15:03

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tias posted:

This sounds interesting, can you link me?

http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html

# ¿ Sep 19, 2018 15:47

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

My masters in Religious Studies was 5 years ago and I try to avoid ever using I in academic writing.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2018 04:17

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Mr Enderby posted:

That's a stupid rule, and it will make your writing worse. By all means exclude personal experience from your work, but if you merely exclude the word "I" you end up with nonsense like "this writer has found..." or "the reader is struck by...".

I was going over some style points with our undergrad interns last month. I asked why they kept using the word "however" in the middle of sentences. It turns out both of them, doing different courses in different subjects at different unis, had been taught never to use the word "but". Academic writing is so loving debased.

Going back over my old thesis paper, I'm mis-remembering. It was more of 'avoid personal experience', not the term I, you're pretty much right.

Man, it's been a long time since I wrote this thing. I really should update it because when I wrote it the most interesting conclusion in it didn't get enough time or support.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2018 13:18

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tias posted:

So I'm still on my early christianity course, and we're reading Romans, which is a complete and utter trip. Pauls christianity is really clear and powerful when explained against the backdrop of gnostic and pagan ideas from his contemporary time.

One thing that bugs me, though: Paul says the problem of original sin is fixed by the sacrifice of christ, and that we have to die because of the original sin - but if we have to die because of original sin, why didn't we stop dying after the sacrifice of christ? Is this something that has eventually been retconned to happen at the Second Coming (this was my teachers take)?

The reason Paul is interesting (besides thousands of others) is that his conversations with the followers he has converted or is attempting to convert required him to find commonality and ways of relating his ideas without having to explain the whole thing from the beginning, hence the feeling you speak of of his being 'clear and powerful' against a backdrop of his contemporary time. It's one of the reasons he was such a successful missionary.

As to the second question, this is actually something he struggles with some, as we see different interpretations of this in the different letters, which either means some of his letters might not be of Pauline authorship or, more likely, that these ideas were in conversation with the simple fact that Christ had not returned yet, the world had not ended yet, and yet some believers had died. So it is necessary to address questions like 'do we know when he's coming back' and 'are they coming back when he does'. And the latter can certainly be addressed within the Jewish tradition as it is, because of the Book of Daniel and its introduction of the idea of the resurrection of the righteous dead after a period of great strife.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2018 18:32

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Man every time I learn something new about Jewish theology it sounds rad as hell.

Mind there's probably a bit of a filter at work given I mostly hear about it here, but still.

This actually isn't an uncommon kind of theme, that it is best to do as much as you are able even if you fail, especially with regards to attaining wisdom. To seek wisdom is the highest calling, even though humans can never actually attain it, and seeking it profits them. To truly understand the way to wisdom is the province of God, yet man should still seek it (and respect God in the process).

# ¿ Sep 22, 2018 19:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I got Arianism which can't possibly be right, I have always believed in the uncreated glory of the Christ.

I blame the pomegranates.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2018 22:20

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

saintonan posted:

https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1045853333007798272

As an example, this man is not a follower of Christ.

The word heretic (and anti-christ, in the original definition of acting against christ) is basically made for people like this.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 14:30

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Given how much stress they apparently suffer being representatives of a powerful hegemonic class that has immense temporal authority, I have to wonder how fast these people would completely shatter if they were ever actually oppressed.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 14:57

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

HEY GUNS posted:

https://twitter.com/chIoroplast/status/1046106523594887168

This chap's got calvinism's number alright.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 21:38

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

All I'll say is a whole lot of these people better really hope us Universalists are right or they're gonna have a hell of a surprise waiting at eternity.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2018 16:25

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

HEY GUNS posted:

as an Orthodox i am required to believe that these people are doing the best they can and that only I, HEGEL, am the first of sinners

I know I should do the same, I just really, really struggle with it. I've always been a pretty hot-headed and angry person.

I think it's the flip side of anxiety.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2018 16:47

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Any theology that tries to cut out the Harrowing of Hell is a sad theology I want no part in.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2018 17:32

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Honeycrisps are the best apple, but Fuji apples are also very good.

Apples in general are one of the proofs of God's love for creation.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2018 04:28

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Pellisworth posted:

golden delicious and red delicious are garbage

It has to be some kind of plot to call the worst apples 'delicious'.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2018 04:41

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Keromaru5 posted:

This weekend I'm going to a conference for Orthodox young adults in Atlanta, and I thought the thread would be interested to know about the party they're having on Saturday. The theme? Silly hats.

Suddenly considering Orthodox as an option.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2018 17:17

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

It depends on the sect/denomination/Christian.

Soteriology changes a lot.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2018 18:31

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Pershing posted:

They named it The Melchizetrek.

Your diocese is either the best or the worst and I can't tell which.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2018 00:40

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tias posted:

The memorial bl�t is coming up! (3rd of November, traditionally)

The priestess has decided that one of the corners involved will be Hel, the goddess of the underworld. Many traditional minded (and too christianized, imo) pagans are afraid to give her worship, so I took over representing her.

I'm a guy going to be channeling the power of a two-faced lady of the underworld who is keeper of all who die outside of Odin and Frejas purviews, ama

Why would they be afraid of worshiping a Goddess of the Underworld in a pagan context? They usually aren't anything bad. I know very little about Norse mythology and Hel, so unless she's unusually hostile or something, is it mostly a Hades situation where later material conflates her with Satan?

# ¿ Oct 14, 2018 14:52

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Pellisworth posted:

Modern Judaism is pretty strongly monotheistic afaik.

Historically, early Jews/Hebrews were more henotheistic (there are many gods but ours is the best and we're only going to worship YHWH), you can see this in reading the Old Testament.

As I recall, it's during the Babylonian Exile (following the destruction of the First Temple) that Judaism develops a stronger monotheism.

Yes, the idea develops as an innovation to explain why YHWH was not defeated by Marduk, counter to the conventional religious thought of the time about how the Gods battle one another during wars in addition to the human armies. The conventional take would have been that YHWH was taken captive by Marduk symbolically by the seizure of the holy items and priesthood and destruction of the Temple. Instead, you see an idea develop among those who want to continue to worship YHWH as undefeated that the Babylonians were permitted to defeat the kingdoms because they had not kept to their covenant and had not followed the exact advice of the various prophets during the foreign policy crises that eventually led to the defeat of Israel and Judea. This had the side effect of keeping YHWH in control and developed into 'And Marduk isn't even really a god, at best he's some other demon, everything moved according to the plan of YHWH.'

# ¿ Oct 15, 2018 17:04

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Senju Kannon posted:

it reminds me of the religion section at the berkeley communist book store which consisted of atheist books by islamophobic and just all around racist nu atheist authors and no, like, liberation theology or anything like that

looks bad, bob avakian, man who talks confidently about police brutality but says "black people" quieter than the rest of the correct sentence

How did the nu atheist movement get taken over by islamophobes, anyway? Is it just that 'boy those people we hate sure are savages and their religion is wrong about everything' nonsense got way more popular traction post 9/11 talking about that kind of thing or was it always a part of the movement to poo poo on the 'other' more than the Christian traditions?

# ¿ Oct 17, 2018 18:41

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

HEY GUNS posted:

also they know little about STEM but they're huge fans of STEM, and make that fanaticism a center of their identity

easy prey for "scientific" racism and sexism

Ah, the good old Tech Cultists, recreating the Christian Eschaton but with robit devil and cryonics in place of the resurrection of the dead.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2018 19:10

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

taken over? personally, i am unaware of a time when many internet atheist movements weren't rotten with bigotry

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jx8/too-many-atheists-are-veering-dangerously-toward-the-alt-right

I suppose that fits with what Senju was saying about it being a 'therapeutic' movement, given its main self-definition as a movement is 'we're the smartest and rightest and the only ones who use logic'.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2018 20:42

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tias posted:

I just sat through a grueling but amazing 6 hour lecture on the many and varied afterlives recounted of in norse mythology.

AMA (particularly about valkyries, shining lands, heathen ghosts or sagas, though)

So what's the actual deal with Hel? What kind of afterlife is she dealing with?

Is Valhalla specifically 'you stick here until the end of days when you get into an even bigger fight' like it's usually portrayed in popular stuff?

How do ghosts happen?

What are Valkyries?

# ¿ Nov 3, 2018 16:47

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Reconstructive or not, I'm curious to hear what he heard. Almost all religious stuff is fascinating to me, and even if it's a wholly modern reconstruction what they say about the stories is still of great interest.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2018 02:13

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 04:46

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

At the same time, 'the minimum they were supposed to do' was 'win the house, despite it being gerrymandered to hell and intentionally designed for it to be generally impossible for that to happen after 2010'.

Sometimes I feel like the atmosphere of constant despair is self-reinforcing and pretty unhelpful. Still, I'll be praying for things to get better in the future.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2018 16:19

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