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Just coming in to introduce myself and say hello.  I'm Wren, a fairly well-educated modern Jew. I did two years of a very traditional rabbinical school as a woman (which was an interesting experience) before dropping out and doing graduate school full-time. I read the first dozen or so pages of this thread, then skipped to the end and saw that lurkers and effortposting was encouraged, so I thought I'd introduce myself, which I hope is allowed. Looking forward to good conversations.  Edit: I don't feel like I can weigh in on the ongoing compassion question in the thread but my parents and I are taking a mussar class together on Tuesday nights. Mussar is a form of Jewish self improvement where you concentrate on one particular character trait at a time. We are spending two weeks on "honor" and our class is in a big debate about whether it is possible or admirable to show honor to everyone. I and my study partner*, the rabbi's 92 year old father who is also a rabbi, and vet who served in the US Navy, are fully in the punch Nazis and deplatform the alt-right camp. My parents (stepdad is Sikh and is a core member of the course and community, and Jewish mom) are committed to non-violence and see Thich Nhat Hanh as someone to emulate with regard to this character trait. *"chevruta," Judaism is traditionally studied in dialectal pairs. WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Feb 10, 2020 |
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Feb 10, 2020 18:37
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Thank you for all the warm welcomes! Honorthoughts incoming! I largely agree with the thread's ideas of deplatforming as a kind of honor, but I think it may conflict with my parents and the majority of the class, and perhaps with the original meaning of honor in the texts we've read. Our class wasn't able to get fully into it and are taking two weeks on the trait of honor in order to discuss further. These are ideas we had in our paired conversation but haven't really explored with the larger group yet: The earlier sources we looked at on honor teach more concrete, universal manifestations - you honor another by not interrupting them, by standing up before then, by calling someone according to their title, etc. Then even these earlier texts suggest there are more individual kinds of honoring someone - following preferences that may be specific to my family, or immediately after services each week, my mother or I hand the rabbi a cup of coffee. Those are idiosyncratic ways of showing someone honor. I think deplatforming Nazis honors them as a threat, and honors the dignity of potential listeners, but certainly doesn't honor them in those universal methods. I think there's a difference in "showing honor to someone" and "honoring someone" as well as between the way that we treat all human beings that is a base level of respect and the way we treat someone who we want others to honor as a exemplary role model. When I show someone honor who is higher up in the social hierarchy than me, I think I'm honoring our culture and values itself, not just that person. Also in our paired discussion the elder rabbi suggested we pay the basic kinds of respect to criminals, because of recognizing who they could have been, which is a fascinating idea I want to explore further. Not directly related to honor, I'm a big fan of silly and non silly head coverings of all sorts! I'm more of a fan of head coverings for householders as a personal choice than those that are mandated very strictly by social groups. We encourage my stepdad to wear colorful turbans to express his individuality. When we lived in a colder climate, he often asked me if I could source him a streimel (the big round fur hats worn by members of some Chassidic groups),but he never took me up on my offers to secure one for him. 
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Feb 10, 2020 22:13
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If you are game, refocus on the original line of inquiry. Is it appropriate to honor everyone? If so, what honor should everyone be shown? What honor should a dangerous enemy be shown? Edit: hat-chat! Freudian, maybe you can expound more on this British(?) tradition? When I studied in London for a year, some community members who do not wear black hats the rest of the time, wore full out fancy top hats during the service (not regular black hats). I tried googling this and found many examples of British and Canadian Jews wearing top hats in synagogues, which is delightful, but I don't know how to link Google image photos on my phone. WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Feb 11, 2020 |
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Feb 11, 2020 01:23
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Captain von Trapp posted:I wouldn't rule that totally out, but in the entirety of the extensive documentation of the war I don't think Jesus is mentioned even once. A more distinct split between Christianity and Judaism did begin to emerge after the war, but I wouldn't say that implies early Christians were participants in the war itself. I'm not a historical scholar of this period but I do remember reading about the flight to Pella, where the Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella before the Great Revolt. Reading this Wikipedia article, it sounds like historicity of this event is debated.
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Feb 11, 2020 23:53
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Stay strong and safe, Fritz. A kid in Sunday school just defined adultery as "pretending to be an adult when you aren't one." 
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Feb 16, 2020 20:11
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Fritz the Horse posted:Neigh! From an intuitive Jewish legal perspective, when I understood the significance of the question about the oil and cloths, it seemed common sensical to bury or burn it. 
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Feb 21, 2020 17:09
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This week at synagogue I gave the lay talk on the weekly reading (Parashat Mishpatim Exodus 21:1–24:18). I spoke about the development of a basic legal code and why this text may feel initially spiritually uninspiring to us from the framework of Kohlberg's theory of moral development. ... Then I was completely outshone by my study partner, the 93 year old elder rabbi, presenting a Yiddish version of "Take Me Out to The Ballgame." This is my first "rodeo Shabbat" and I wasn't sure quite what to expect. Edit: 
WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Feb 22, 2020 |
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Feb 22, 2020 21:00
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Fritz the Horse posted:Ain't my place to judge who is and is not Christian Whose place is it? God? Religious leader? Each person?
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Feb 25, 2020 15:53
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Could you please explain a bit more as to why the baptisms of one Christian group would pragmatically matter to another? Is it for instances of marrying between the groups, and requiring another baptism or conversion, that sort of thing? I'm home sick with a stomach bug so very much appreciate both prayers and posting to entertain myself. I'm intermittently napping and working on the Sunday school curriculum. The dogs are helping immensely.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:52
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Hurray.
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Feb 26, 2020 05:45
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Tias posted:I'm not even christian, and I'm more or less invested in criticizing christians who baptize the non-christian dead. I used to care extremely hard about it, as it seemed to prove the agressive and aloof nature of Jehova, to try to coerce even the non-active souls to follow it. Having talked to my mormon friend about it, I'm more relaxed (it seems to just be a future offer of baptism in the event that LDS are right about everything), but still I'm like.. don't interrupt my spirit chills to try and offer me mormonism, it's the eternal soul equivalent of door to door missionaries annoying you on your day off. Thank you. Regarding posthumous conversion, it strikes many people as very offensive in my communities. When I lived in DC, another Jewish friend and I joked about going to the large LDS temple and saying "We are the Jews and we need to talk."
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Feb 26, 2020 13:23
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Tias posted:That explains why I've chowed down on PB samwiches all my life and am fit as a fiddle not really - I have three kidneys You are the second European goon I know with three kidneys. Hm. Thanks for all the healing prayers yesterday. I'm on the mend, thank goodness. E: The American Sikh community is experiencing some trauma as one of their former leaders was exposed as a sexual abuser in a recently published book. I'm doing a lot of listening to my stepdad about what his identity as a Sikh means to him. The betrayal is just horrifying. WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 18:52
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My heart is breaking for my stepdad, whose spiritual teacher gave him his name. All of this person's teachings are now called into question now that truths about him have come to light; the community is just reeling. I'm being as supportive as possible.
WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 03:16
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CommonShore posted:Hi Wren- I don't have much to add but I want to acknowledge that I'm reading your posts and to me that sounds like an awful and sad situation. Thanks a lot for the acknowledgement. We talked about it all tonight and watched videos of other students of this teacher discussing the situation, and I helped him get into a private Facebook group to find some more support. Then he fell asleep on the couch watching Dragonheart; I think it's just emotionally exhausting. Just hearing stories about what the teacher did was absolutely nauseating, ugh.
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Feb 27, 2020 06:55
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Prurient Squid posted:I finally got round to reading 2 Maccabees and it's as disturbing as I was lead to believe. I've got to the part where Antiochus turns good after God gives him diarrhea. Haha I illustrated that book in high school, though I don't remember if I did that part.
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Feb 27, 2020 22:24
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I meditate and pray both formally and informally. As far as formally, prayer soaks through my lived experience. The last thing I say before I go to sleep is the Shema, the statement of core Jewish belief, and when I wake up I say prayers thanking God for the new light and safekeeping through the night. I say blessings before and after I eat, after I see lightning, etc. It's a historical and personal practice to simultaneously embrace intention and the traditional form, not to just mumble by rote. I think of the constant small blessings as opportunities for me to pause and practice gratitude, focus on what's important.
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Feb 28, 2020 02:38
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Do any of you have any podcasts to recommend? I've recently started listening to podcasts again. It's good to have something to listen to when my hands are busy.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:40
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As of last night, I'm dating the synagogue's rabbi. Everything is hush hush until we become more serious - both his family and my family know what's going on, but not the congregation. Our next date is Shabbat afternoon to drink tea and play cards with him and his father. I really really like him; this is marvelous and surreal and I'm falling really hard. It'll be hard not to beam at him something awful tonight at services.
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Mar 13, 2020 13:19
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm glad someone has something good going on right now with all that's happening in the world. Thank you. Things got serious between me and him very fast since our first date a week ago, and now I know more about negotiating with the board of a synagogue during a crisis than I ever thought I would. I'm trying to create a supportive partnership and collaborate and encourage our community's work as we are going. That wasn't super articulate but just wanted to let you know we are going strong and thinking off all of you. Edit: do we have an ongoing prayer request list?
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Mar 18, 2020 22:32
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Liquid Communism posted:It's not a lot, but it is very, very essential for the safety of yourself and those around you if you're going to have a firearm in the house. I know people at the synagogue carry because of security, but maybe I should ask to do some additional training since I'm always around them. I'll ask about it. Thanks for the idea. Currently buying the board game Pandemic for our Shabbat afternoon game time.
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Mar 19, 2020 14:53
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Virtual! Shabbat! Services!
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Mar 21, 2020 17:08
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Congregational rabbis, who tend to be a gregarious sort, are sending one another parody songs commiserating about how all their classes are on Zoom now. The person I am seeing played me a bunch of them as I set up his virtual classes this morning.
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Mar 25, 2020 01:28
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Lutha Mahtin posted:~*~my rabbi boyfriend~*~  
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Mar 25, 2020 08:17
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Times are strange indeed, friends. I accompanied the rabbi to hospice today and we were not admitted to the dying man's room because of coronavirus, so from the benches in front of the building, he said the last confessional on FaceTime with the grieving family.
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Mar 31, 2020 05:13
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That's horribly sad. I've been saying additional prayers for the safety and healing of the world during this dangerous time. Jewish communities everywhere are scrambling to figure out what we are going to do for Pesach (Passover) coming up in a week now. I'll write more about what's going on after getting some more cleaning for the holiday done...
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Apr 1, 2020 23:30
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Adding BattyKiara to my prayers for healing list.
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Apr 2, 2020 23:03
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Really glad to hear you're hanging in there, BattyKiara, you've been in our prayers. We are holding virtual Passover seders as well as small family gatherings (less than ten people). We were up til 3 cleaning last night/this morning.
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Apr 5, 2020 22:12
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Nth Doctor posted:I mentioned this in another thread, but not here. My Grandmother's 91 year old husband tested positive for COVID-19 last week and has been in the hospital ever since. He seemed to have turned the corner and there was talk just yesterday of plans for his coming home. Overnight he took a turn for the worst, developing pneumonia, and is not expected to make it. Are you able/willing to provide first names and mother's names for focusing prayer energy? Our custom is to pray for health invoking the mother's name for mercy. If not, I will include them in my prayers more anonymously. Mr. Enderby, absolutely, would love to talk virtual seders, I'll try and effort post about the sokn. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts and feelings. My significant other's two sons will be attending our sedarim via video call because of travel restrictions and being cautious about exposing their grandfather to the disease.
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Apr 8, 2020 10:18
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It's interesting. In Judaism we have a tradition of contested authorship of the book of Job, perhaps because it's so challenging theologically.
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Apr 8, 2020 21:00
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HEY GUNS posted:would you be interested in a translation of it by a tutor at my old school Heck yeah, I dig translations. JB, I'll try to think of a book to recommend about the authorship of Job and theodicy. After much effort, and introspection, we cleaned our homes, removing all leavened products. During Passover we see leavening as ego inflation, because it makes you puffed up and/or an adulteration of our ideals and values, so the cleaning process becomes a ritual for the introspection process. The rabbis - my *boyfriend* and his dad - did a virtual Seder the night before Passover, recorded on Facebook. tonight and tomorrow night people in lock down can access it and sing along with them and participate. The company Haggadot R Us made their haggadot (guide for the seder) free for download this year. I think this is all great, and honestly I don't think that people would forsake going to an in-person Seder because a virtual one is available. There are obviously technical things that make virtual seders more and less fun and accessible but this technology will allow people who could never experience a Seder to potentially take a look and have a feel for myriads of sedarim. This holiday is one where we declare "all who are hungry come and eat" so this year we are learning about limiting our in-home hospitality and channeling it towards mutual aid organizations. Feels weird but is obviously the best thing to do. Practice makes progress. Tonight we hosted my family and the rabbis' family - some of his children had to attend virtually but we included them in some of the readings, we were able to see them eating the ritual foods with us, etc. We - of course - have far, far too much food. It was only my partner's third time making matzah balls, and they turned out great. Tomorrow morning the Passover services will be virtual and then we have a very limited set of careful congregants joining us for second seder, staying below the ten-person recommendations. We pour wine - symbolic of joy - out of glasses for the plagues our enemies suffered, and tonight we counted an additional plague of coronavirus. May the sick be healed and may we all experience a complete healing of body and spirit.
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Apr 9, 2020 13:13
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Mr Enderby posted:Putting the plate together now. It's not correct for a few reasons. Non-Kosher wine, no lamb shank, lots of leaven (i.e. beer) in the house. Also I am using tortillas as matsoh. But my hosts say this is fine because as a gentile I am participating as a guest at a meal, and none of this is a religious obligation for me. I'd be interested to know what YOUR BOYFRIEND THE RABBI would say to that. I told him that on the forums I write on a non-Jew wanted his opinion about their seder and ritual foods, and he grinned really big and said he wanted to see the exact writing. Then we cohosted our first event for *congregants* and *some other community members* with me as HIS GIRLFRIEND, and things went really well! We debriefed a bit ("I wonder if I was warm enough with that person, could you give me advice about what I could have done if someone gets anxious about reading out loud like that again, here's what I think I would like to say next time if this particular issue comes up") and it's past 3, and I will follow up more once I get some sleep. Also skimming the conversation seems interesting... But the respectful tone of disagreement and comeraderie in dialectic was really heartening.
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Apr 10, 2020 11:05
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Just had a (video) meeting with a new health care provider of a family member. The hcp is a religious Christian and knows us to be religious Jews, so we had a good time trading Bible verses about health and healing, and he offered phrases like "a Moses rocks moment" for "a praise Jesus moment." I am pleased at bridging the gap.
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Apr 10, 2020 19:06
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Wishing you all meaningful and redemptive spring holidays. My middle schoolers in Sunday school are writing plays/other art pieces about respect and "holiness" in relationship to other people I'm very excited to see them all next weekend 😁.
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Apr 12, 2020 21:51
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How's Blue? (Da ba dee da ba doo) Last day of Passover!
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Apr 16, 2020 19:21
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What's the Christian word for de-sanctifying a space, like if a Church is going to be repurposed? I thought it was de-sanctifying but I'm told that's not the precise term.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:45
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Deconsecration! Thank you! We were trying to describe official processes of holy spaces changing hands in Israel. Fritz... Is that you?
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Apr 16, 2020 20:00
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I'm at a hospital accompanying a family member who may need an essential surgery for their back. This hospital has ~15 people with COVID-19, none of whom are in the outpatient surgery wing. Everyone seems quite tense. I'm being very calm to help other people be calm. I am remembering to wave to children because they can't see me smiling and any kid in the hospital now for sure needs to be here.I'm a big fan of peas for snack plants!
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Apr 16, 2020 21:18
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HEY GUNS posted:eight by eight squares, which i pleat. My limited experience with sewing machines says that the problem is always something to do with timing. I have some quilting fabric I can send you - would you please PM me the appropriate address?
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Apr 17, 2020 14:28
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I have a favor to ask for a friend of my mother's -- she's Orthodox Jewish, and due to circumstances I'm not sure it's my place to share she needs either a Rabbi or instructions on performing the yizkor and prayers for the dying, and can't turn to her own local faith community. Either someone who could reach out to her would work (I can give you her contact information) or just the information she needs would work. I got you. Could you PM me her contact info please?
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Apr 18, 2020 02:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Will do -- I'm kind of playing telephone but I'll send it on first thing tomorrow morning. No problem. Given that she's Orthodox, I won't be reaching out until Shabbat is over in any case. Thank you for connecting us.
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Apr 18, 2020 04:14
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