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When did you play it, out of curiosity? I just started pretty recently but by all accounts it launched as a complete and utter disaster. What I've played has been surprisingly fun and not a buggy mess. I will say that I strongly question whether ESO's "optional" monthly subscription is truly optional. Like it is, you can definitely play without it, but the QOL benefits the subscription provides are massive (things like funneling every crafting material you pick up into a special bottomless craft bag, saving you tons and tons of inventory and bank space, for example). It also gives you $15 worth of microtransaction currency every month but really that's not worth nearly as much as the crafting bag and increased bank space if you're going to play for any real length of time. Groovelord Neato posted:i never understood why they made an elder scrolls mmo that doesn't play at all like one of the games. I dunno, it kinda does. It's not like Skyrim's combat isn't floaty and inconsequential too 
Harrow fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 20:29
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I played last year and subscribed and stuff, got to level 40ish i think, and gave up after hitting the same dungeon finder bug for the hundredth time while attempting to run the same generic buggy dungeon for the thousandth time. I had fun once in the hundred and fifty or so hours I played, when me and two friends beat a boss at the end of a dungeon by cheesing him completely via kiting for 15 minutes straight. It involved abusing some bugs and stuff so it wasn't even like a legitimate experience in the sense that it was actually created for players to enjoy. It just felt so horrible, bland, and overwhelmed by repetition and bad decisions vis-a-vis things like crafting and premium currencies. Thats on top of how it basically wasn't an elder scrolls game, which doesn't fundamentally mean it can't also be a good MMO, but was disappointing
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Aug 22, 2018 20:51
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Yeah that sounds pretty lovely, cripes I've had fun so far but I can also see things getting repetitive, if only because weapon variety is severely lacking and (like I mentioned before) the poorly-balanced wide-open skill system means that character builds often tend to be pretty homogeneous. I'm not an expert or anything so I try not to go too far into the problems I see in the game's design (from my amateur POV, of course), though I do think that the insistence on not having any skill cooldowns, combined with the vast majority of skills being usable by any class, is leading to a likely impossible-to-balance system, at least on the PvE side of things. When you don't have cooldowns or a stricter resource system to regulate how often you can use skills, you have to come up with other reasons for players not to just spam a single skill, and ESO's approach seems to be that tons of skills have built-in buff and DoT components. So that means that ground-targeted persistent DoT skills are king and no matter if you're a physical or magical DPS, your main thing are ground-targeted DoT zones. It's worse for physical (stamina) DPS, because there are two that are by far the best ones, to the point that they're in literally every serious physical DPS build, whether melee or ranged, no matter what class. PvP's in a better position because there's a lot more to it than doing damage as efficiently and quickly as possible, but on the PvE side it's all just sort of muddy and I can see that really sucking the life out of group PvE for me. I dunno, every MMO that I like at all has at least one thing that ends up being a fatal flaw and prevents me from really getting invested in it. Obviously they all have a lot of flaws, but there's always one big thing that I eventually run into (or remember, if it's a game I'm returning to) that just takes the wind out of my sails every time. In ESO I bet it's the build variety problems and the fact that every DPS build has to be a DoT build unless you're a casual solo player. In GW2 it's the anemic and monotonous in-game reward systems while they funnel all the cool aesthetics into the cash shop and apologist players keep hiding behind "you can get those by playing, just grind gold and turn it into gems."
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Aug 22, 2018 21:05
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Harrow posted:I dunno, it kinda does. It's not like Skyrim's combat isn't floaty and inconsequential too elder scrolls games are first person.
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Aug 22, 2018 22:06
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Well no you're not going to be a teenager taking your first hit off the pipe again. They got big and complicated so they cost money to make, so investors want a return, so it has to be a WoW killer. Niche ones crop up but they're backed by Kickstarter and run by old flakes that really did need a publisher cracking the whip to accomplish anything, otherwise, they just sit around jerking themselves off. The player base got old and very few people want to sit around for 4-8 hours a night doing mandatory teamwork when there are so many other options out there for online play that's actually fun. If you're still an MMO player for whatever ungodly reason, World of Warcraft has over a decade worth of content, expansions, and quality of life adjustments, so playing another janky launch day MMO where poo poo is broken all the time and you can burn through the content in a month doesn't really appeal, especially since all your friends already play WoW, so you'd be starting all over as a level 1 scrub with a pointy stick. The MMO fanbase swarms over games like a bunch of emotionally damaged locusts, gutting what took years to make in a month then wandering off to the new hotness or hanging around bitching they don't have anything to do and demanding emotional support or fighting amongst themselves. If you want to play with friends, there's basically every game including console games. Nobody wants to play with the toxic randos that make up the MMO playerbase. poo poo, MMO players are so bad, Steve Bannon used them to undermine the US. Pick your reason.
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Aug 22, 2018 22:20
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The worst thing about Guild Wars 2, IMO, can be summarized by how ArenaNet treats mount skins. GW2 has an extremely good mount system. They feel really good to ride around on and not just like your character is moving faster, and not the sorta clunky mount-riding ESO has. Mounts in GW2 have actual weight behind their animations and move and turn differently depending on the mount type. And each type of mount has a unique movement ability that gets you past specific kinds of obstacles in the open world. It's a legitimately excellent implementation of mounts and I have nothing but praise for it. Now, the mount aesthetics, that's a problem. ArenaNet has no problem making lots of mount skins, and good ones, at that. The problem is that they are categorically a gem store (microtransaction) thing. Period. They're not going to add mount skins that you can earn in-game. And that really summarizes the whole thing for me. It's not just mount skins, of course, but I think those are a particularly illustrative example because of how much art is being produced and how none of it is being used to give players new in-game goals to pursue. And to clarify for anyone unfamiliar with GW2, it's a game without endgame gear progression. The point is that aesthetic stuff is what you're supposed to be trying to get once you reach endgame. That there's so much being produced with so little that you can actually earn in-game is a pretty glaring problem. GW2 has turned into a game about grinding for gold and map-specific currencies, because most of the game's in-game rewards are earned that way, and not through doing content actually related to those things. They're never going to do things like add quests or collections (sorta like scavenger hunt quests) for cool mount skins because those have to go on the gem store. And long-time dedicated GW2 players kind of don't want it to be any other way, either. There's a pervasive attitude that it's important that you can play the game "your way," meaning that you should be able to get most rewards by doing whichever activities you want, and not have to do specific activities to get specific things. A lot of dedicated players would vastly prefer to buy mount skins with gold (or convert gold to gems, or just buy gems) than have to do a quest chain to get mount skins, because they're not being "forced" to do a quest chain they might not want to do, and they can get gold through a wide variety of activities. There's just nothing satisfying about that, to me, and it makes the whole thing kinda depressing to play at endgame. When the only thing that's going to actually get me cool new aesthetics for my character is grinding for currency, I just don't end up really caring about any particular goals. The reason that sucks is that I think there's a lot about GW2 that is very, very good, and if they put more effort into making more compelling quests and instances that provided unique rewards (purely aesthetic, because that's how the game works), it'd probably be the best MMO on the market. That one fatal flaw just kills the whole thing, though. Groovelord Neato posted:elder scrolls games are first person. You can play ESO in first person and you can play single-player Elder Scrolls games in third-person  I mean I don't in either case but it's not like it's a strict and definitive divisionI mean the biggest difference is that you can't mod the gameplay in ESO, which naturally means that if base Elder Scrolls gameplay isn't fun for you (and, let's be honest, it's not particularly great) there's not any way to spice it up. ESO gets by on fun quests and good dungeons but its combat is unmodded Skyrim but with like half of the options. Harrow fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 22:23
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GW2 had a lot of good things about it but lmao at the dungeon system, holy moly, it was like they looked at WoW dungeons and thought "how could we do this, but for toddlers that have just been hit on the head with a mallet". the hardest bosses had like, one move that was an aoe they telegraphed, the whole thing would consist of maybe three or four pulls which were always just totally inconsequential, they were this incredible feat of non-creation. Just these bland forgettable fifteen minute areas where a group of people mindlessly button mashed until everything was dead because they balanced them in a way that ensured players would never have to heal, root, move, debuff, or think even once God those were so fuckin bad I quit after doing them all and never logged back in once. Ill grant part of it might be my own love for the holy trinity but they can still make things hard without having stuff do damage for healers to mitigate. Shame cus the PvP was okay and the leveling PvE was actually really good
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Aug 22, 2018 23:04
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If you play Elder Scrolls in 3rd person, you are wrong.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:05
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Frog Act posted:GW2 had a lot of good things about it but lmao at the dungeon system, holy moly, it was like they looked at WoW dungeons and thought "how could we do this, but for toddlers that have just been hit on the head with a mallet". the hardest bosses had like, one move that was an aoe they telegraphed, the whole thing would consist of maybe three or four pulls which were always just totally inconsequential, they were this incredible feat of non-creation. Just these bland forgettable fifteen minute areas where a group of people mindlessly button mashed until everything was dead because they balanced them in a way that ensured players would never have to heal, root, move, debuff, or think even once They fixed that by completely ditching the dungeon system all together and moving to fractals: 15 min mini scenarios that all play vastly different with varying puzzles/set pieces. (You have to do 3 in a row before heading back to the hub area) It works extremely well since there is a ramping difficult system that is completely up to the player on how hard/easy a fractal run will be. You really should check it out since its some of the best 5 man content in the game with new fractals being added: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists
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Aug 22, 2018 23:24
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I said come in! posted:If you play Elder Scrolls in 3rd person, you are wrong.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:30
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Bloodly posted:City of Heroes. More specifically, the Mastermind pet system. Pets are usually a single thing, and they're more like auto-damage, because they only get one or two moves. This is also true of many single player games. Not exactly a MMO, but have you played Guild Wars 1? You recruit henchman to bring with you into the zones that have as many active skills as you do. Starting with the 2nd expansion, they added NPC heroes with skillbars that you could completely customize and eventually break the game over your knee. There's also a cash shop option to use your other PCs on the account as NPCs, so you can bring more heroes of a given primary class than the game's progression supplies you with.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:30
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Frog Act posted:GW2 had a lot of good things about it but lmao at the dungeon system, holy moly, it was like they looked at WoW dungeons and thought "how could we do this, but for toddlers that have just been hit on the head with a mallet". the hardest bosses had like, one move that was an aoe they telegraphed, the whole thing would consist of maybe three or four pulls which were always just totally inconsequential, they were this incredible feat of non-creation. Just these bland forgettable fifteen minute areas where a group of people mindlessly button mashed until everything was dead because they balanced them in a way that ensured players would never have to heal, root, move, debuff, or think even once BexGu posted:They fixed that by completely ditching the dungeon system all together and moving to fractals: 15 min mini scenarios that all play vastly different with varying puzzles/set pieces. (You have to do 3 in a row before heading back to the hub area) It works extremely well since there is a ramping difficult system that is completely up to the player on how hard/easy a fractal run will be. Yeah, GW2 has significantly improved its group PvE design since launch. Hell, there are even raids now, with healers and tanks and everything (though if you want to tank you better roll Mesmer, they still haven't quite figured out how to make them less mandatory). I just think maybe they should revisit the idea of making new non-fractal dungeons at some point. I like fractals, but I want some small group PvE stuff that isn't "wandering through pocket dimensions in the Mists"-themed. Hell, they could even copy the model Bungie uses for Destiny's strikes, where they reuse areas of the open world and/or maps they made for solo story missions and use them for different scenarios, like how they reused dungeon maps for explorable mode dungeons on launch.
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Aug 23, 2018 01:23
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Age of wushu meets city of heroes
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Aug 23, 2018 04:36
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TalonDemonKing posted:Age of wushu meets city of heroes I'm really looking forward to City of Titans, but that MMO is still a very long ways away.
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Aug 23, 2018 07:12
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Harrow posted:Yeah, GW2 has significantly improved its group PvE design since launch. Hell, there are even raids now, with healers and tanks and everything (though if you want to tank you better roll Mesmer, they still haven't quite figured out how to make them less mandatory). Every time I wish an MMO would break out of the Healer - Tank - DPS mold; I remember playing GW2 and think, okay, perhaps the mold is there for a reason.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:00
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kzin602 posted:Every time I wish an MMO would break out of the Healer - Tank - DPS mold; I remember playing GW2 and think, okay, perhaps the mold is there for a reason. I think it's entirely possible to break out of that mold, but you're going to have to go farther away from standard MMO combat to do it, and that was the problem GW2 ran into. It's different from WoW's combat, sure, but not enough to allow for consistently interesting combat encounters without the role trinity. Destiny is actually an interesting example of this, because for all its many, many faults, it has pretty well-designed group PvE instances, both small-group and raid, and it doesn't have tanks or healers at all. They do it in raids by essentially designing fights as time-sensitive puzzle encounters where players might need to take on a role that is specific to that fight (like using a special environmental weapon, for example), so those fights can require teamwork without necessarily falling back on the tank/healer/DPS division. But, of course, it's also a first-person shooter and not a pseudo-action MMO like GW2. That said, GW2 could (and does) take some cues from that kind of design. None of the raid encounters technically require tanks or healers--playing close to perfectly lets you avoid enough damage that your personal healing abilities can take care of the rest--and in some cases can't be tanked in the first place. Those encounters just have other mechanics going on to keep them interesting and require teamwork. And most raid groups run at least one healer anyway because unless you're doing speedruns of an encounter you memorized months ago, you're not playing well enough to avoid enough damage that you don't need outside healing. Fractals (the 5-player instances) are sometimes a little more clusterfucky, but they've done better there than they did with their launch dungeons, at least. They tend to rely on rotating modifiers that change how you play instead. Doing the same fractal instance with the No Pain, No Gain modifier (enemies gain damage reduction and a stacking damage and critical boost when hit) is a different experience than doing that same instance with the Social Awkwardness modifier (you take damage when you hit an enemy if you're standing too close to another player).
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Aug 23, 2018 17:13
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No. There wont. Because there never actually were any good MMOs to start with, World of Warcraft is by far the most accessible, but it's just a giant theme park and all the sandbox MMOs are incomprehensible lunatic factories. So no, there aren't. It is possible, if you run a small private server with friends only, you could make a good "MMO", it just isn't really massive anymore.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:21
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I don't understand criticism of "theme park" MMOs or MMOs being "just a theme park". Theme parks loving own.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:00
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I cried on the log flume when I was eight
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Aug 24, 2018 15:09
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Mode 7 posted:I don't understand criticism of "theme park" MMOs or MMOs being "just a theme park". Everyone thinks they want ultra realistic hardcore 'like real life' things where your survival isn't protected and you can rise to dizzy heights or fall just as far. Where things take forever to do and so this 'means something'. They think they want it hard for the sake of challenge. There's a presumption that you'll be either on top, or watching and glorying in someone else's achievements from afar because hey, they did the work. Like they're actual celebrities. They think they want 'another life'. I doubt this.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:19
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When they make an MMO that plays like Dark Souls we will have a hit.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:17
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Bloodly posted:Everyone thinks they want ultra realistic hardcore 'like real life' things where your survival isn't protected and you can rise to dizzy heights or fall just as far. Where things take forever to do and so this 'means something'. They think they want it hard for the sake of challenge. People definitely romanticize "sandbox" MMOs but the vast majority of them are just absolute slogs, and any suggestions I've seen for hypothetical "good" sandbox MMOs sound like complete slogs, too. I get the desire. I really do. Sometimes I think it would be cool to have an MMO where players trying to achieve specific goals can end up creating gameplay for other players--not in the sense of a City of Heroes map generator thing, but in the sense that a player could almost be a quest-giver. Like say a game has a really in-depth and cool crafting system and some players are just all-in on crafting. They need some sort of rare ingredient that maybe they have to gather themselves, but it's only found in a really dangerous area that's across the sea. So they hire another player who has a ship, and some other players who are combat-focused, and they all go on an adventure together to get this thing. And then I step back and realize, wait, that would actually loving suck to play. What are the fighter/adventurer guys doing while the captain pilots the ship? What is the merchant/crafter doing, like, at all other than following dudes around? Once they hit land, what does the captain do? Just hang out on the ship? If the captain is also specced to be good at fighting, why doesn't everyone have a ship, then, if you don't have to choose? It's one of those things that I can make sound like "yeah man, players are the content, this owns" but then if you think about how it would actually work in a real, functioning game, it just sounds boring as poo poo.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:32
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The best mmo I ever played was knight online, probably, and that was cookie cutter cleric/mage/tank/dps castle siege PVP as it gets. Leveling was a total grindfest though
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Aug 24, 2018 16:53
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Bloodly posted:Everyone thinks they want ultra realistic hardcore 'like real life' things where your survival isn't protected and you can rise to dizzy heights or fall just as far. Where things take forever to do and so this 'means something'. They think they want it hard for the sake of challenge. It's clear that there's a sizeable niche who do want something like this- see the proliferation of Arma 'Life' servers and GTA 5 roleplay. There is evidently a subset of gamers that want challenge and achievement in their gaming experience equivalent with significant real-life investment. But for better or worse, this market pales in comparison to the number of people who want to come home from a stressful day and not face anything resembling meaningful setback or failure in their leisure time. If you're planning to make a game, looking at the relative market success of Fortnite vs. PUBG vs. Arma/Tarkov/etc. provides a good sense for where to focus on the spectrum of gaming adversity if you want to guarantee a return. That said, it's completely possible to make a game with significant adversity that doesn't feel like an endless slog. If the core gameplay loop is fun, even achieving modest success in a play session can feel relaxing. The problem is MMOs are largely mired in design tropes harkening back to 1990s MUDs. Gameplay centered around pressing a button every few seconds to trigger an ability is boring as hell.
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Aug 24, 2018 21:07
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Wakko posted:That said, it's completely possible to make a game with significant adversity that doesn't feel like an endless slog. If the core gameplay loop is fun, even achieving modest success in a play session can feel relaxing. The problem is MMOs are largely mired in design tropes harkening back to 1990s MUDs. Gameplay centered around pressing a button every few seconds to trigger an ability is boring as hell. I've posted it before in this thread, but it's really annoying to me how western and eastern-developed MMOs each do something way better than the other, and so far very few developers have even really tried to bridge that gap. Western MMOs tend to have the kind of content and content pacing that makes it easier for a player to jump in and quickly start doing something fun and engaging. They vary in how successful they are at this, of course, but by and large I think it's true. They have stronger worlds that are denser with activities, and a wider variety of activities, both for solo and group play. But the problem is that their combat is at best lackluster. The best of the western-developed (or western-style, since I think FFXIV falls into this bucket) MMOs can have okay combat, like I think Guild Wars 2's combat is okay, but never combat that is actually engaging on its own merits. The best you can hope for is something that feels reasonably okay to do in the progress of doing something more interesting. Eastern MMOs, on the other hand, have gone much, much farther in trying to make fun and engaging combat systems. I mean, poo poo, just look at Black Desert and Dragon's Dogma Online. Their combat is fast, flashy, and weighty (and both of them have mage classes that try really hard to let you be a motherfucking wizard, which I appreciate). But for the most part, these eastern MMOs with great combat have awful structures for everything outside of that combat. They tend to be grindy and they love to actively waste the player's time by making them fail at doing things like upgrading gear. (These statements don't necessarily apply to Dragon's Dogma Online--I haven't looked into it much beyond how the classes play, so I have no idea what the actual game is like.) Somebody's gotta fuse the two. I don't really care about the distinction between "theme park" and "sandbox" MMOs. I just want an MMO that structures and paces its content well and has fun and engaging combat. We know that both things are possible but I have no idea why they've thus far been impossible to do together.
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Aug 24, 2018 21:17
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Bloodly posted:Everyone thinks they want ultra realistic hardcore 'like real life' things where your survival isn't protected and you can rise to dizzy heights or fall just as far. Where things take forever to do and so this 'means something'. They think they want it hard for the sake of challenge. It's like every time a FFA PvP server opens, the population explodes, then dies off just as rapidly, because everybody thinks they're going to be the wolves. They spend all their time screaming for free for all PvP thinking they're going to be on top. But then they get on the server and get rolled by actual "wolves" and log off in a huff.
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Aug 24, 2018 23:48
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Harrow posted:Elder Scrolls Online has some of this, though not all. Its character building is pretty wide-open and combat is kept pretty grounded and doesn't have autoattacking (in fact, learning how to time animation canceling your light/heavy attacks into special abilities is really important for maximizing your damage). You have to pick a class when you start, but your class is really only the nucleus of your character. It provides three skill lines, but there are also weapon-specific skill lines, guild skill lines (Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Dark Brotherhood, etc.), armor skill lines, etc., and anyone can use those, so any class can be a physical DPS, magic DPS, healer, or tank. I played the original closed beta for ESO and I hated it It kept making me think of Fallout or Skyrim but I couldn't actually do the kinds of wild free roaming things you do in Fallout or Skyrim because really its just EQ/WoW with a TES skin. IDK, wasn't my thing I guess. Had some nice things though, generally nice graphically.John Cleese was cool though.
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Aug 24, 2018 23:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:i never understood why they made an elder scrolls mmo that doesn't play at all like one of the games. Yeah that's the real problem... Its not an elder scrolls MMO. Its a Tamriel MMO. Which is weird.
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Aug 24, 2018 23:57
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TalonDemonKing posted:Age of wushu meets city of heroes Age of Wushu is really cool. More videogames need to play around with bonkers movement, it just feels good and is fun. I hate that WoW has walked back flying as this thing they only give you once you beat the game, like they're embarrassed about it. DC Universe Online is not a great MMO but by the simple fact that you can fly anywhere anytime its actually fun as gently caress. I love just cruising around metropolis, flying down, going "I AM HERE TO SAVE THE DAAAAAAY!" beating up some henchmen, and then ZOOP off I go into the sky again. FEELS GOOD. MMOs have the best like, stuff around the game, but the actual GAME, the moment to moment gameplay in an MMORPG, kinda sucks balls. Its a really weird turn based thing that has really fast automatic turns based on the GCD rate in order to approximate real-time combat. It was created intentionally for the internet of the 90s to help mitigate horrible latency. Planetside 2 exists, and its an MMO with FPS combat. Its not perfect, but it works. That's why I want something like a dark souls mmo now. We have the technology to build something on the scale of Everquest or World of Warcraft, but where the moment to moment combat is actually exhilarating instead of boring as gently caress like in everquest. My only fear is that such a game would be so good that I would quit my job and end up bankrupt and homeless. I'm not even joking, if you properly mixed the best elements of Dark Souls and Everquest it'd be like crack cocaine.
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Aug 25, 2018 00:05
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RagnarokZ posted:No. There wont. Yeah but if you're a lunatic who is into the incomprehensible, then EQ (and DAOC and WoW about up to BC and maybe EVE online) actually was an amazing game, a perfect MMO, and we'll never get back there.
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Aug 25, 2018 00:06
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Mode 7 posted:I don't understand criticism of "theme park" MMOs or MMOs being "just a theme park". Theme parks can be very fun. I like WoW as it is now. Its good. It doesn't waste too much of your time. Its got lots to do. Its pretty, and fun, and it isn't confusing. "theme park" shouldn't be inherently bad, but nerds are nerds. But "theme park" IS fundamentally different in design from the "sandbox", and we don't really have sandbox MMOs anymore other than EVE, so its pretty easy to end up resentful and  at the "theme park" mmos as being lovely (not because they're actually BAD per se but because they killed the thing that you personally loved)Typical human psychology Bloodly posted:Everyone thinks they want ultra realistic hardcore 'like real life' things where your survival isn't protected and you can rise to dizzy heights or fall just as far. Where things take forever to do and so this 'means something'. They think they want it hard for the sake of challenge. Ark/Rust/DayZ/etc. definitely suck balls, so yeah, its not that simple. That said, the fact that I still play project1999 and tons of people love EVE does mean something, and its more than just pure nostalgia. Modern WoW may as well be a single player or co-op game for how social it is. MMORPGs in the "theme park" mentality end up not being MMO at all, but just rather RPGs. In order to truly embrace the "MMO" you kinda have to be a sandbox. I would argue that if you put them on a contiuum, the perfect MMOs would be like Everquest which as much as it is "sandbox" compared to WoW, is honestly kinda "theme park" compared to say, DayZ. Its like Pure Sandbox - DayZ/Rust/Conan/ARK Perfect Hybrid - Everquest/Eve Pure Theme Park - WoW/ESO/GW2 E: I tried to draw a number line but SA just removes the extra spaces so the formatting was all wrong 
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 00:08
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Zaphod42 posted:Age of Wushu is really cool. More videogames need to play around with bonkers movement, it just feels good and is fun. I hate that WoW has walked back flying as this thing they only give you once you beat the game, like they're embarrassed about it. dcuo was alright but don't play anything daybreak it's a garbage company blade and soul is similar to age of wushu but more theme park than sandbox
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Aug 25, 2018 00:37
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Zaphod42 posted:I played the original closed beta for ESO and I hated it It's changed a lot since then--I hated the closed beta, too. While it definitely isn't like playing Skyrim, it also isn't really like EQ or WoW with an Elder Scrolls skin, either. Its quests are quite a bit longer and more involved, and it does a lot more with non-instanced dungeons and stuff than WoW ever does. That said I can't really recommend the combat all that highly. Like it's decent enough but I'd rank it lower than Guild Wars 2, which still isn't incredible or anything.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:03
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hot take - blade and soul is a better game than gw2 and ncsoft knows it
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Aug 25, 2018 02:05
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Oddly been thinking about this a lot lately. I want a game that combines EVE, DayZ, Rust, and Left for Dead. I love EVE, it's a great game, but the combat is and has never been anything to write home about. I love the hardcore PVP and consequences, and I love the massive world with loads of people in it fighting over resources, but the combat just blows. It's unsatisfying. I love Rust, it's a great game but for the last few years every server has just been 'play until the 12 year old zerg conquers the server, then reroll.' Which means you play for 2 or 3 days per wipe. Meh. So what would love to see is a game that combines the better qualities of the two games. The building and pvp of Rust mixed with the massive world of EVE. The issue with Rust is that there's not much differentiation in zones and the world is too small. If someone big comes in there's nowhere to run. Additionally there's no lower-value zones to build up in before moving into the more dangerous and contentious areas. So Rust on huge servers (able to hold 1000 people at a time) on a map that's 100km by 100km with a central, safer, less valuable area with NPC patrols and a store/economy town, with the majority of the map being lawless territory. Lots of points of interest, like old military bases, national guard and police stations, towns with busted up gunstores, etc. with a more DayZ style weapons/vehicle gathering system (but rustesque base building) and all of these points of interest are guarded by Left for Dead style zombie hordes/special zombies/bosses to make the looting more interesting. Add two elements from Conan exiles: Thralls, for repairing weapons, bases, vehicles, making ammunition, guarding your base, gating different base defense systems/weapon attachments etc, and then the Purge (or at least what the purge was supposed to be). Have bases have timers to attack so that you aren't just getting assraped at 5:30am on Tuesday morning and have weekly NPC hordes attack at a time chosen by the clan. Have the NPC attack scale exponentially with clan size so that by the time you have 100 people there just isn't any way to stop the horde (as kind of a soft cap on clan size). That's the basic idea. It'll never happen. No company that actually has the resources to do this would touch it with a 10-foot pole. Ah well. quote:
I don't really know that EVE is less of a sandbox than those other games. There's more to do, far more choices for how to play, a much larger world and you can have a greater impact on a larger number of people. Everquest was basically just a Theme Park, too. Space Monster fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 10:30
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The primary issue with themeparks for me is how you progress. In themeparks you have have to do a shitload of “this” before you can do a “that”. You have to quest before you can do dungeons, or pvp. You have to do dungeons before you can raid. In sandboxes if you want to get good at cutting trees you just have to start, and continue to cut some god damned trees. The rush to level cap so you can start doing “this” so you can eventually do “that” completely relegates any content that falls in between to tedium. Regardless of how much you want to check out the stories, you’re rushing to cap and prioritizing speed over fun. Before it’s mentioned, alts really feel like a waste of time to me though they are the proposed solution. It’d be great to get into a game that had the storylines, and optional gear progression of a themepark without all the gating to do content. I’m p sure the level sync (pvp especially) features that are becoming more and more common are an attempt to address this. or, you know, whatever
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Aug 25, 2018 16:56
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Torn between calling to ban the OP because there was never a good MMO or trolling the thread by saying Fallout 76 will be the answer, please advise
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Aug 25, 2018 17:07
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WebDO posted:Torn between calling to ban the OP because there was never a good MMO or trolling the thread by saying Fallout 76 will be the answer, please advise Fallout 76 is going to sell a massive amount of copies and rewrite the sandbox genre completely. hosed up but true.
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Aug 25, 2018 17:26
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:It's like every time a FFA PvP server opens, the population explodes, then dies off just as rapidly, because everybody thinks they're going to be the wolves. They spend all their time screaming for free for all PvP thinking they're going to be on top. But then they get on the server and get rolled by actual "wolves" and log off in a huff. pvp in eve online worked so well because there was a lot of stuff to do other than hunt people. At its core its really a resource gathering/crafting game with pvp tacked on. Not an mmo but the same thing with dark souls. It was a game with a great single player aspect that allowed invasions, so there was a reason for people not interested in pvp to play the game.
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Aug 25, 2018 17:39
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Shadowbane was a good sandbox PvP MMO at its prime (super buggy but the concept was great). Except when designed specifically to be truly player driven the MMO automatically has a few month end state, which I'm not sure can be solved. Yes the whole game world is player built and player controlled, except eventually 80% of the guilds on my server decided to form an alliance against the many objections of sane people saying that will ruin the server. They promptly defeated the small alliance that was fighting them, and those people moved on and either quit or moved servers. Fighting 10 on 1 every time wasn't fun. Then this 80% of the server alliance (now 100% of the server) sat on the now boring server with 0 conflict for several months somehow, after which everyone of course quit out of boredom and the server shut down. GG. This is basically exactly why true sandbox PvP MMOs can't exist. No sane developer is gonna spend millions on a game that will last several months at best before the end state is reached. They need to theme park PvE content, or gate PvP behind pre-set alliances without a win condition (fight over some keeps here without affecting any starting cities or any of the game world). Meh. Eve did somewhat solve that issue by literally putting the WHOLE player base onto one server instead of smaller shards, but I don't think that's achievable in a normal MMORPG where people are not going to tolerate a powerpoint style sub single digit FPS battles. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 18:24
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