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Hi, I'm Grakkus and I like unusual old cars. This thread is intended primarily to chronicle my heap of heaps and my successes and failures (mostly failures) working on them. I've only recently gotten into working on my own cars, so I'm still fairly incompetent at pretty much everything outside of basic stuff, but I'm slowly learning! Without further ado, the main courses: 1971 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3S   Me and my father have been talking about doing a restoration project together for a while, and we stumbled across this Fulvia by chance on the return journey after looking at other, "minor surface rust" cars that were of course rotted out junk. Nonop since the 90s, but the engine turned over and the body was surprisingly healthy for a 47 year old Italian car - just a coin-sized hole in the passenger footwell, rust around the driver's side subframe mount and leading bonnet edge, and a dent in the right rear wing. Aside from that, the gearbox can only select 1st and reverse, and it's had a lovely paintjob in the past, where someone just sprayed a thick layer over the existing paint; it's cracked and broken away in several places and the original paint is visible underneath. The brakes don't work at all, and the dash is wrecked from the Italian sun. Despite all that, it's a beautiful car and me and my dad fell in love with it instantly when we saw it, and it arrived in my driveway a couple of weeks later. We've since got the engine and gearbox working, the brakes are next, and it has an appointment with a body shop soon to have the rust fixed. KYOON GRIFFEY JR has a great post about Fulvias here, they are really interesting cars and a bunch of cool engineering went into them, check it out! To do list: - - - - Rebuild rest of brake system - Rebuild engine - Have the dash, door cards and carpet redone - Have the bodywork rust fixed and repainted - Sort out brightwork - Fix heater controls - Refurb wheels - New exhaust 1991 Citroen BX 14TGE "St. Tropez" Grakkus posted:So I bought a large pile of moss and dirt with some metal and plastic underneath:  To do list: - - - - - - - Polish paint - Replace suspension spheres - Replace timing belt - Replace VC gasket - Fix rust spots - Replace bodged wing mirror New arrival: 1991 Citroen BX GTi   Idly browsing the local craigslist late one night, I saw this BX GTi up for auction for a ludicrously low price. I figured what the hell, shot him a bid and then forgot about it, until I got a message from him asking when I wanted to pick it up. It's rust free outside of a tiny amount of surface rust on the sills, all the paint is original, the interior looks like it's from the factory, and it's fully loaded equipmentwise outside of not having AC (which was tremendously rare in these cars). The catch is that it has a blown head gasket, and a pretty serious LHM (suspension fluid) leak originating somewhere between the engine and the firewall, probably from a notoriously rare, expensive and lovely-to-repair pipe aptly named the Octopus. It's also been sat unused for 10 years (this seems to be a theme with the cars I buy) so it'll need a general refresh. Still, with just under 130hp and a weight of 2000lbs, it should be pretty fun to drive when it's finished! To do list: - Fix head gasket, plus timing belts etc. while in there - - - Fix remote keyfob - Fix paint on spoiler and rear bumper - New spheres all round And the side dishes: 1989 Mercedes 300CE   I saw this for sale for a very reasonable price last year, I thought I would fix and flip it, but I ended up loving it so much that I decided I'd keep it for a while. The reason I got a good deal on it was that when I bought it, it had several serious sounding noises coming from the suspension and driveline, nonfunctioning windows, and mahoossive rock chipping from being driven on lovely countryside gravel roads for a decade. After nearly binning it several times on the journey home through one of the biggest storms I've ever experienced, the troublesome noises were fixed with a couple hours' work and about 30 dollars worth of flex discs, bushings and an exhaust hanger. Since then, it's had the rock chipped panels repainted and the windows fixed, and now it's mostly okay barring the sagging front suspension and a few minor issues. 1999 Audi TT 225 Quattro  The first "fast" car I've ever owned, I got this thing from its first owner in Germany in excellent condition and have tried my best to keep it that way. Trying to fix little things on it was actually what got me into wrenching on my own cars. It's a great all-rounder, it's got huge grip and its pretty fast, yet it's still comfortable to be in for long periods of time and it has a shocking amount of space in the back - I've done several 3 hour journeys in it carrying my GF, her grandmother, and three large suitcases, in enough comfort that they both fell asleep en route. Some people love these things and some people hate em, I love mine but TBH, I'm looking to upgrade it to something more special in the near future. 1997 VW Polo 1.4  Unkillable cockroach and the beatiest of beaters, this thing was my cousin's first car, then my grandfather's before it was passed on to me once he became too old to drive. It's been in the family for nearly 20 years and has received very little care in that time, but continues to be eminently reliable despite that. I've been slowly improving it from the wreck it was when it passed down to me, but the paintwork is still trash, the electric windows barely work, half the switches on the centre console have broken out of their slots and are hanging loose, the seats are fraying and feel like they're made out of cardboard, the headlights are dangerously dim, but the engine runs well, the body is (relatively) straight and rust-free and the A/C works. The next items on the list for it are some better seats out of a golf or seat ibiza, and some headlight upgrades. One day when the engine craps out, I plan to swap something fun like a G40 or VAG 1.8T into it. Grakkus fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Apr 15, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2018 17:43
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You're a sick, sick person and I am here for it.
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Aug 29, 2018 18:00
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Grakkus posted:... I've only recently gotten into working on my own cars, so I'm still fairly incompetent at pretty much everything outside of basic stuff, but I'm slowly learning! Nothing like immersion learning!  This thread looks promising and you look crazy. Consider me strapped in.
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Aug 29, 2018 19:00
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that BX GTi is loving rad Good luck with the Fulvia. I put my plans on hold because I bought a M5 instead. The heater controls may not actually be broken - the heating system was garbage from the factory so it may be working as intended 
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Aug 29, 2018 22:08
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Oh hell yeah unique Euro cars 
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Aug 30, 2018 01:13
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Oooh a Fulvia! The rare non crap Lancia 
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Aug 30, 2018 01:45
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Oooh a Fulvia! The rare non crap Lancia The S2 already has the taint of FIAT about it a bit. Not so bad as the S3 though.
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Aug 30, 2018 03:01
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I love the rear of the BX GTi, so retro-futuristic
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Aug 30, 2018 18:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The S2 already has the taint of FIAT about it a bit. Not so bad as the S3 though. From my understanding the S2's changes are mostly upgrades despite FIAT, with better brakes and a 5 speed box (though some people say the FIAT box isn't as good as the original 4 speed), and that the S3 was when it went full cheapo parts-bin. I've only driven one fully functioning Fulvia though and it was an S2 Berlina, so I can't speak from experience! pointsofdata posted:I love the rear of the BX GTi, so retro-futuristic It's a Gandini design and I think it's fantastic looking, exactly what I'd expect the designer of the Countach to create for a small, cheap hatchback. A lot of people hate them though, including my cousin who never ceases to bang on about how awful it looks. What does he know though, the car is older than he is
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Sep 3, 2018 15:56
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S2 got rid of the aluminum bodywork and a lot of other extremely expensive components. The five speed has the same top ratio and isn't as nice to use. No argument on the brakes, though. S1 brakes are a pain from what I've heard.
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Sep 3, 2018 17:24
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Grakkus posted:1991 Citroen BX 14TGE "St. Tropez" God drat that brings back memories of my F-reg BX 16TRS with the brown interior. So you're saying it's available 9 months of the year? Also I saw this last week:  
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Sep 3, 2018 20:45
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Seat Safety Switch posted:You're a sick, sick person and I am here for it. I love weird, neglected cars, especially French ones.
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Sep 3, 2018 22:48
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Last month, I told a guy next me at a stoplight he had a cool car. It was a Citroen wagon, forgot the model but about 27. Years old I think he told me. Just dealt driving it, regular plates. I think it had a model name in chrome script on it? Anyway, this sounds neat, go for broke!
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Sep 4, 2018 05:40
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Probably a Xantia
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Sep 4, 2018 11:34
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An XM maybe? Though a Xantia is way more likely 
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Sep 4, 2018 11:49
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I was in the UK for a few days recently, and had the opportunity to do a couple of things on the white BX. The day I arrived the shops were closed so I couldn't get the tools I needed to change the leaking accumulator sphere, so I decided to go for an immediate easy victory and clean up the interior instead. It's in pretty good shape, generally speaking, but it's pretty filthy from being sat for so long in a humid, cool environment. Someone also taped up the air vents at some point, presumably to stop moisture and creatures from getting in, which has left an ugly residue. First things first, though, the coin tray was broken and wouldn't stay closed, and I had picked up a replacement for a mere 7 pounds, so I replaced it: The broken coin tray next to the large, prominent ashtray (mandatory in French cars):  The mechanism from the damaged one compared to the good one:   The little plastic runner that goes through the channel had snapped off. I thought about fixing the old one, but the runner is held on by a tiny spring as it needs to move up and down and the whole thing seemed like more effort than it was worth, so I just slotted in the replacement piece:  Which brings me to stage 2, the absolutely filthy dash, centre console and steering wheel. My dad swears by Autoglym products so I thought I'd steal his interior shampoo and try it out and I'm extremely impressed. It took off all the gunk on all hard and soft surfaces with very little effort, eliminated the mustiness and left the car smelling fresh, and gave it all a really pleasing satin finish.       Some vacuuming and an APC bath for the gear knob later, the car is extremely pleasant to sit inside and I no longer worry about catching an exotic disease. Prrrobably should have done this stuff earlier! cakesmith handyman posted:God drat that brings back memories of my F-reg BX 16TRS with the brown interior. So you're saying it's available 9 months of the year? Lovely Fulvia, what event was this at? And if you're anywhere near Worcester, the next time I'm in the UK we can meet up and blast it down some country roads
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Sep 4, 2018 15:11
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holy poo poo that cleaned up nice
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Sep 4, 2018 16:05
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Grakkus posted:Lovely Fulvia, what event was this at? And if you're anywhere near Worcester, the next time I'm in the UK we can meet up and blast it down some country roads Just a national trust property which means it gets driven for the love of it occasionally. That's only 90 minutes away, I sure I could find an excuse for nostalgia's sake.
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Sep 4, 2018 17:41
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Grakkus posted:An XM maybe? After googling I think it was a 505 unless there is something more squareish.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:19
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Grakkus posted:An XM maybe? I'd love to have a V6 with the pneumatic suspension and daily it. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 07:04
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some_admin posted:After googling I think it was a 505 unless there is something more squareish. uhh that's from the other, bad brand
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Sep 5, 2018 11:36
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MrOnBicycle posted:I'd love to have a V6 with the pneumatic suspension and daily it. So would anyone with a V6 with pneumatic suspension
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Sep 5, 2018 11:53
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You had me at Fulvia 😁💰🧐
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Sep 5, 2018 12:30
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Kaptainballistik posted:You had me at Fulvia 😁💰🧐 They look so similar to the mazda 1500 sedan and luce coupe I just want to get a fulvia and put a rotary in it. E: In before spergs, yeah I know why they are similar, because back then mazda were buying designs from Bertone and Giugiaro. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 15:07
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The Coupe and Berlina were in house designs by Piero Castagnero so any similarity is primarily common Italian car themes rather than actually related designs. The Luce does have a very similar rear to the BMW E9 as well. also do not put a rotary in a Fulvia, the engine is the most interesting part of the car!
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Sep 6, 2018 16:40
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In a small bunker a red light flashes, then the blue light flashes.. RADL IS NOT AMUSED.
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Sep 8, 2018 02:51
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MrOnBicycle posted:I'd love to have a V6 with the pneumatic suspension and daily it. I'm looking for a series 1 V6 XM to use as a comfortable long-distance cruiser/crap-hauler. Preferably a wagon, but V6 manual wagon XMs are ridiculously rare, they only made something like 1500 of them. I found one last year and thought I had struck gold, but it was an irredeemable wreck 
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Sep 10, 2018 17:15
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On my second day in the UK I got the stuff I needed to tackle the depleted accumulator sphere on the white BX! First, a quick primer on hydropneumatic systems for those who are interested. They are commonly considered extremely complicated and unreliable, and many people are scared of owning or working on them, to the point where I've had mechanics outright refuse to work on any mechanical component of a hydropneumatic Citroen (including ones unrelated to the suspension). This is inaccurate, as they are actually fairly straightforward and easy(ish) to work on, and it's rare to have a catastrophic failure. They're much more likely to just leak like bastards The key components of the system are the hydraulic pump, pressure regulator and the spheres:  Essentially, the belt-driven hydraulic pump pressurises LHM, Citroen's special hydraulic oil, which is then used to power the suspension, brakes, power steering and clutch. The pump tends to be extremely reliable, so there's not really much to worry about on that front, as long as you don't do something stupid like try to run it too long on a dry system. Systems like brakes and clutch are effectively the same as normal cars except they run LHM instead of regular brake fluid. The only notable side effect of this is that in many of the earlier Citroens the brake tends to function more like an airbrake on a truck than a regular brake - braking force is determined by pedal pressure rather than travel, which can catch you by surprise the first time you drive one as they are VERY sensitive and powerful and will abruptly chuck you at the windscreen if you aren't careful They also tend to be reliable other than sometimes needing a seal replacing, so I'll move on to the most well-known components of the system.  The primary service items are the spheres, commonly known as "pears" or "apples" in Europe due to their colour and shape. Each car has at least 5 (one for each wheel, plus an accumulator sphere, more on that later) though later cars with complex active suspensions could have up to 10. They are simply hollow metal balls, bisected by a flexible neoprene membrane, one half filled with gas and the other with LHM. The compressible gas acts as a spring for the car, while the LHM being forced through the narrow aperture of the sphere's connection to the car acts as a damper. They are designed to be screwed on and off the system and only need to be hand-tight (unless your car is 30 years old and has sat outside for a decade ~~foreshadowing~~). So effectively you have a combined spring+shock that you replace with the ease of an oil filter! Ingenious! The third crucial component of the system is the pressure regulator, whose job it is to keep the system at it's operating pressure of 180bar/2,500psi. Working in unison with the regulator is the previously mentioned accumulator sphere, which stores pressure for the system. When it runs low, the regulator opens for a moment and then snaps shut with a characteristic clicking noise. Finally, the entire system is connected by galvanised high pressure lines which again, tend to be very reliable, as well as rubber low pressure return lines which, sadly, are not nearly as reliable as they tend to perish and leak. They run from every major component back to the reservoir and thus are liberally scattered around the vehicle and are prone to break in the least convenient places possible, like between the firewall and engine. The most likely one of these lines to break is of course also the most complicated (and expensive) by far; it's known as the octopus:  The good news is that because they are low pressure lines, they can be repaired with fuel hose and some joiners, so while fixing leaks is fiddly, awkward and time consuming, at least it's cheap! To those bored by this mini-lecture, sorry, it's over now! To those who found it interesting, there's a much more detailed explanation of the system and its relative benefits and disadvantages on this excellent site: http://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/en/suspension/hydropneumatic-suspension Now, back to my BX. You can judge the general health of the LHM system by timing the clicking of the pressure regulator as it compensates for loss of pressure. My BX clicks at a healthy interval of roughly 40-50 seconds while at idle, which indicates there is little pressure loss in the system as it runs. However, when driving, braking or changing the ride height, it clicks a LOT, indicating that the accumulator sphere is barely capable of holding pressure and is therefore toast. There was also an LHM leak from the region that I suspected was from the regulator's low pressure return line join. Here's a potato-quality video of it driving up to my dad's workshop prior to changing the sphere, note the clicking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAQqCgP88P0 Changing spheres always makes me a little nervous in the older Citroens, as I have previously noted the system runs at 2500psi and while it is fairly easy to depressurise (drop car to lowest setting, undo bleed screw 1.5 turns) there is no way to actually tell if it has fully depressurised or not, so I tend to undo spheres while hiding as much of my body as I can behind the nearest part of the body in case a sphere tries to embed itself in me like a cannonball. Anyway, we depressurised the system, lifted the front of the car and got to work.  My dad had purchased a chain wrench that he assured me would be more than adequate to remove the sphere that was almost certainly the one the car left the factory with, and had sat unprotected in a moist climate for ten years. It was, of course, totally useless at anything more than scratching some of the paint off (note also the drips of leaking LHM):  It was at this point that I unveiled my secret weapon for sphere removal: a bicycle inner tube and a large hose clamp. Wrap the inner tube around the sphere, clamp it on with the hose clamp, stick the screwdriver into the screw on the clamp and hit the other end with a hammer. 4-5 solid whacks and the sphere began to move; we then took position cowering as far back off to the sides as possible as I unscrewed the sphere the rest of the way. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment I forgot to take any pictures of this part of the process But in the space of a few short minutes, the source of the LHM leak was identified to be the perished o-ring of the old sphere, the area is cleaned up and a new sphere is screwed on. We then turn the car on, and pressurise and bleed the system by doing the Citroen dance: alternating minimum and maximum ride height 4-5 times. I decided to check the regulator click interval and got bored after it hadn't clicked in four and a half minutes of idling! And the clicking when driving is massively reduced as well. Mission successful Except, after the post-fix test drive and parking it back at my dad's, disaster struck! Some total moron decided to ziptie that part of a low pressure return line to the back of the front subframe and, inevitably, the test drive took its toll on the pinched old rubber. It's now leaking from that spot pretty fast, a relatively steady drip when the car is parked. It's the line from the rear height corrector and it is, of course, part of the octopus. The part that runs between the engine and the firewall. It's not catastrophic, the rear height corrector only returns LHM when the car is settling after being parked and even then it only loses ~150ml every time, but it's going to be a real PITA to fix..
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Sep 10, 2018 19:25
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I regret selling mine so much. Good on you for putting the effort in.
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Sep 10, 2018 19:34
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do you have a good LHM source? i have heard that is a challenge here in Amerikkka
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Sep 10, 2018 21:56
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Luckily, LHM is relatively commonly available. I think even Halfords stock it.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:38
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Yeah, I can buy LHM for £7/$10 per litre online or for £13/17$ at Halfords if I need it immediately. There's also a French company that makes replacement spheres that are OEM quality for a very reasonable ~£55/$70 per pair, a full set of 4 are next up on the agenda along with fixing the new leak.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:55
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this is giving me bad, unsafe, marriage-ending grey market Citroen ideas
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Sep 11, 2018 02:13
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Thanks for that writeup, Grakkus. I'm completely ignorant of Citroen weirdness and it was a fantastic read.
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Sep 11, 2018 02:16
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Grakkus posted:It was at this point that I unveiled my secret weapon for sphere removal: a bicycle inner tube and a large hose clamp. Wrap the inner tube around the sphere, clamp it on with the hose clamp, stick the screwdriver into the screw on the clamp and hit the other end with a hammer. That's genius, and I'm stealing this. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:this is giving me bad, unsafe, marriage-ending grey market Citroen ideas lol Deteriorata posted:Thanks for that writeup, Grakkus. I'm completely ignorant of Citroen weirdness and it was a fantastic read. Seconded. That was really interesting and explains the braking behavior of a late 90's Xantia that I used to borrow.
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Sep 11, 2018 11:32
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Thanks guys, I'm glad you liked it. I'll try to make more info posts when inspiration strikes A friend alerted me today that there is an article about BX GTis in the latest issue of Modern Classics (a UK magazine). Good news for me:  KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:this is giving me bad, unsafe, marriage-ending grey market Citroen ideas cakesmith handyman posted:I regret selling mine so much. Good on you for putting the effort in. Strike while the iron is hot!
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Sep 11, 2018 19:39
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Deteriorata posted:Thanks for that writeup, Grakkus. I'm completely ignorant of Citroen weirdness and it was a fantastic read.  Good read for us yanks.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:49
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Fun little fact that I found out about today: While it's relatively common knowledge that Marcello Gandini designed the Citroen BX, he actually liked the car so much he requested to appear in a commercial for the BX GTi! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW2ZQF_pDi0
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Sep 14, 2018 21:04
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Since my username and avatar comes from one of Citroen's 1960s advertising campaigns, I don't really have to say how much I'm enjoying this thread, especially since someone's actively saving BXs. The Lancia and the Mk3 Polo (a car I have a strange soft spot for) are added bonuses! Here's my pair of Citroens - 1996 Xantia Estate 1.9TD and a 1988 2CV6 Dolly:  I keep the 2CV at a friend who's also got the Citroen bug bad. He has this very scruffy CX 22RS Safari running on LPG:  a very early 'sinker' Xantia hatchback 1.9D and a Mk1 XM 2.0T:  (plus assorted Peugeots, Rovers and smelly old Jaguars)
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Sep 15, 2018 23:17
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BalloonFish posted:
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Sep 16, 2018 11:51
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