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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

etalian posted:

Chaebols are pretty cyberpunk especially how in S Korea Samsung owns random stuff like amusement parks and hotels.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

need a place to put the fuckwits from the credit card, amusement parks (multiple), fashion, chemical manufacturing, heavy industry, cameras, economics research, mechatronics, robots, heavy industrial engineering, ships, buildings, hotel chain, hospital chain, life insurance, general business insurance, fire insurance, marine insurance, hard disks, sports teams, movies, biotech, home shopping, logistics, an entire district of seoul, a different city 13 miles from seoul, pharma, cosmetics, public transit stuff, paper products, cars, white goods, oil refining, machine tools, stockbroking, nuclear power plants

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Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

basic hitler posted:

I think it was a Vox video about NK i watched a year or two ago that talked about some of the cultural elements of Juche as being directly inherited from Japanese imperialism, including the racial stuff that runs as an undercurrent through it.

I never know if i should trust Vox, but is that roghly true? Does the structure of Juche owe a bit to Japanese occupation?
the better question is whether you should trust Brian Myers who promotes this theory. no imo, it's hack pyongyangology largely based on handwaving at propaganda images and making subjective claims about what is significant in them

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Juche is just a political ideology based around having massive over-organized parades.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde
aint no party like the korean workers party cos the dprk constitution says so

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

etalian posted:

Juche is just a political ideology based around having massive over-organized parades.

i think weve solved the riddle of why trump likes north korea the best of all americas enemies

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Some Guy TT posted:

i think weve solved the riddle of why trump likes north korea the best of all americas enemies

He whined how at least in N Korea there was no dissent and people love their leader.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Trump loves the pageantry.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Typo posted:

HOLY poo poo HOMEWORKER EXPLAINER IS THIS U????

it may shock you to learn there's more than one foreign communist in beijing.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Because Moon is too left wing for them.

to give an idea of just how crazy left wing moons policies are, his main economic achievement to date has been a phased minimum wage hike to ten dollars an hour by 2020 so yeah hes basically a communist as far as liberals are concerned

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

I always wondered why Kim jong un would be enamored with Dennis Rodman, and it turns out he played B-Ball at college in Switzerland.

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003

R. Guyovich posted:

it may shock you to learn there's more than one foreign communist in beijing.

is there a bowling league

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:

is there a bowling league

i wish

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007


Typo posted:

my favorite part of juche is it was so great and appealing faraway romania tried to copy it

yeah it worked out great for ol nicky c

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Reminder that Pornography is illegal in South Korea

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Lord of Pie posted:

yeah it worked out great for ol nicky c



He ain't got the blood of the Qilin

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Plutonis posted:

Reminder that Pornography is illegal in South Korea

its a very technical definition that's easily circumvented any given week there are new erotic films released on demand with classy titles like "my girlfriend's mother 2" "two sisters 2" or "female hostel" with the bare minimum level of plot to not qualify

a few years ago one of these movies snuck into a domestic film festival that was pretty hilarious the lead actress came to the red carpet wearing a dress that was just a toga and half an exposed red bra

in all fairness this was back when people were trying really hard to pretend like all those sex scenes in blue is the warmest color were totally classy and not super awkward straight women having lesbian sex as imagined by some horndog frenchman good god its weird to think of the crazy poo poo film people got away with back before #metoo

Heer98
Apr 10, 2009
I like korea and everyone is very nice here but for some reason almost everyone I’ve met thinks that raising the minimum wage is the death of the country.

do they have a reasonable point that policies designed to eek wealth out of the cheabols will simply squeeze SMEs or are they Kulaks deserving of the guillotine?

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Heer98 posted:

I like korea and everyone is very nice here but for some reason almost everyone I’ve met thinks that raising the minimum wage is the death of the country.

do they have a reasonable point that policies designed to eek wealth out of the cheabols will simply squeeze SMEs or are they Kulaks deserving of the guillotine?

What does your heart tell you?

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PksPNM0GzHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k70xBg8en-4

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Heer98 posted:

I like korea and everyone is very nice here but for some reason almost everyone I’ve met thinks that raising the minimum wage is the death of the country.

do they have a reasonable point that policies designed to eek wealth out of the cheabols will simply squeeze SMEs or are they Kulaks deserving of the guillotine?

minimum wage hikes by themselves arent a good way to go after corporations no because they tend to hit small businesses harder but as all cspam posters should know small businesses are horrible and usually run by tyrant wannabe capitalists convenience stores being the main preeminent example there are small mom and pop shops but these are literally run by old married pensioners who don't generally hire employees anyway because they run the stores as much so they have something to in retirement as they do for the extra money

moon has been stumbling on the economy its his main weak spot and why his approval ratings are now hovering in the low fifties but the minimum wage specifically never rates high on the reasons for discontent on the subtabs of the polls ive seen not that this has stopped the media from pushing that narrative anyway like i really need to emphasize that the minimum wage hike was basically the only economic policy moon has had at all for the last year or at least the only obviously visible one a big reason hes starting to get impatient with trump screwing around on peace talks is because moons best idea for stimulus is to reintegrate with the north korean economy the kaesong industrial complex was a huge moneymaker its why the conservatives didnt want to close it down

pushpins
Sep 11, 2006


Title text (optional; no images are allowed, only text)
Just finished a book on Douglass McCarthur and he wanted to unite the Korean peninsula even if that meant war with china/soviets because he thought piecemeal halfwars all over the globe was a bad thing and I think he was right.

coathat
May 21, 2007

Hmm yes we should have gone to war with China and Russia to install a military dictatorship over all of Korea. This is a smart thought

pushpins
Sep 11, 2006


Title text (optional; no images are allowed, only text)

coathat posted:

Hmm yes we should have gone to war with China and Russia to install a military dictatorship over all of Korea. This is a smart thought

He ran a decent military dictatorship over Japan right? Redistributed land. Gave women the right to vote.

I'm picking a stupid point in history to make hot takes about. I just liked the book.

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

what ever happened with that dumb tech conference thing where they were collecting flash drives to fill with propaganda and smuggle into north korea, was that as much a scam as it appeared

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

making north korea love america with flash drives has always been a thing and its always been super dumb and never worked the main reason why is because most north koreans see american media as mindless fun at best and obvious propaganda at worst the weeaboo minority who interprets csi as the art of a superior civilization arent going to be leading the revolution

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

like foreigners who go to north korea are frequently surprised at how much north koreans know about american pop culture because of the hermit kingdom stereotype but then most north korean stereotypes are super dumb and racist much like their south korean counterparts

Captain Billy Pissboy
Oct 25, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
College Slice
how deluded do you have to be to think american media makes america look good?

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010


Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

how deluded do you have to be to think american media makes america look good?

youd be surprised, i knew a lot of people in china who loved house of cards because it made the us government seem cool

also if you think about it house of cards is just an r-rated, americanized version of a chinese court drama

Graphic
Sep 4, 2018

It's like Lenin said

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

how deluded do you have to be to think american media makes america look good?

american media shows bad things in the country, but always in a way that makes it seem like the problem is bad individuals making horrible personal decisions, and being suppressed and separated from the rest of civilized society by heroic police, heroic prosecutors, and supermax prisons.

whatever american media shows of the ugly side of america it never acknowledges that america is the problem.

even when it's about america being corrupt, they make the protagonist some heroic journalist that exposes the story and act like everything can be solved by principled citizens excercising their sacred constitutional rights

"The conspiratorial mode is supplemented by its apparent opposite, the liberal appropriation of WikiLeaks as another chapter in the glorious history of the struggle for the ‘free flow of information’ and the ‘citizens’ right to know’. This view reduces WikiLeaks to a radical case of ‘investigative journalism’. Here, we are only a small step away from the ideology of such Hollywood blockbusters as All the President’s Men and The Pelican Brief, in which a couple of ordinary guys discover a scandal which reaches up to the president, forcing him to step down. Corruption is shown to reach the very top, yet the ideology of such works resides in their upbeat final message: what a great country ours must be, when a couple of ordinary guys like you and me can bring down the president, the mightiest man on Earth!

The ultimate show of power on the part of the ruling ideology is to allow what appears to be powerful criticism. There is no lack of anti-capitalism today. We are overloaded with critiques of the horrors of capitalism: books, in-depth investigative journalism and TV documentaries expose the companies that are ruthlessly polluting our environment, the corrupt bankers who continue to receive fat bonuses while their banks are rescued by public money, the sweatshops in which children work as slaves etc. However, there is a catch: what isn’t questioned in these critiques is the democratic-liberal framing of the fight against these excesses. The (explicit or implied) goal is to democratise capitalism, to extend democratic control to the economy by means of media pressure, parliamentary inquiries, harsher laws, honest police investigations and so on. But the institutional set-up of the (bourgeois) democratic state is never questioned. This remains sacrosanct even to the most radical forms of ‘ethical anti-capitalism'"

Graphic has issued a correction as of 05:41 on Sep 14, 2018

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Plato was right about killing all the poets. if you watch tv and consume bad fiction it warps your view of reality. we are going to have to start with jk rowling

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

pushpins posted:

Just finished a book on Douglass McCarthur and he wanted to unite the Korean peninsula even if that meant war with china/soviets because he thought piecemeal halfwars all over the globe was a bad thing and I think he was right.

we could have just not divided Korea in the first place

it's easy to think of North Korea and South Korea as though they had always been that way, but the fact is that the US are the ones who divided it in the first place

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

R. Guyovich posted:

it may shock you to learn there's more than one foreign communist in beijing.

yeah there's also that pro prc lowai guy right, it's gotta be him

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

Bro Dad posted:

youd be surprised, i knew a lot of people in china who loved house of cards because it made the us government seem cool

also if you think about it house of cards is just an r-rated, americanized version of a chinese court drama
chinese people love gossip girl for some reason

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
Judge Juche

THS
Sep 15, 2017


i need a large version of your avatar., for uhh stuff

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Main Paineframe posted:

we could have just not divided Korea in the first place

it's easy to think of North Korea and South Korea as though they had always been that way, but the fact is that the US are the ones who divided it in the first place

the really dumb part about the korean war that not a lot of people get is that no one actually recognized the existence of two different koreas officially there was one government but the capitalist and communist countries disagreed on which government that was but mostly no one actually cared about korea one way or another so it was never a big deal this is why most newspapers referred to the korean war as a civil war when war broke out the narrative of north korea invading south korea only became a thing because the american state department started leaning on capitalist publications to change the editorial direction because there was no way the united states could justify intervening in another unrelated countrys civil war

hilariously we can to this day see how obviously manufactured this bullshit narrative is because the united states still doesnt recognize north koreas existence and hawks keep acting as if doing so is some horrible red line that will lead to hitler 2.0 no one ever puts two and two together and asks how a country that doesnt exist is supposed to be able to invade another country that does exist

Modest Mao
Feb 11, 2011

by Cyrano4747

Some Guy TT posted:

the really dumb part about the korean war that not a lot of people get is that no one actually recognized the existence of two different koreas officially there was one government but the capitalist and communist countries disagreed on which government that was but mostly no one actually cared about korea one way or another so it was never a big deal this is why most newspapers referred to the korean war as a civil war when war broke out the narrative of north korea invading south korea only became a thing because the american state department started leaning on capitalist publications to change the editorial direction because there was no way the united states could justify intervening in another unrelated countrys civil war

hilariously we can to this day see how obviously manufactured this bullshit narrative is because the united states still doesnt recognize north koreas existence and hawks keep acting as if doing so is some horrible red line that will lead to hitler 2.0 no one ever puts two and two together and asks how a country that doesnt exist is supposed to be able to invade another country that does exist

hmm this doesn't seem right

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Modest Mao
Feb 11, 2011

by Cyrano4747
the different takes are really interesting though, the origins of the korean war are definitely some forbidden history. Very little written on the wikis

History of North Korea Wikipedia posted:

As negotiations with the Soviet Union on the future of Korea failed to make progress, the US took the issue to the United Nations in September 1947. In response, the UN established the United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea to hold elections in Korea. The Soviet Union opposed this move. In the absence of Soviet cooperation, it was decided to hold UN-supervised elections in the south only.

Okay so the USSR hosed up

Some canadian history website posted:

The task of UNTCOK was to supervise the withdrawal of American and Soviet troops from Korea and oversee free elections throughout the country. However, the Soviet Union objected to the mission. The Soviets claimed that, since Korea was not a member of the organization, the UN had no jurisdiction in Korea. As a result, Korea was divided along the 38th Parallel

OK so the USSR wanted it that way

UNTCOK Wikipedia posted:

The United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea (UNTCOK) was a body that oversaw elections in South Korea in May 1948. The commission initially was composed of nine nations, and Australia, Canada and Syria played a dissenting role, resisting US plans to hold separate elections in South Korea.

OK so the USA wanted it that way too, maybe more so


History of North Korea Wikipedia posted:

During August, People's Committees sprang up across Korea, affiliated with the Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence, which in September founded the People's Republic of Korea. When Soviet troops entered Pyongyang, they found a local People's Committee established there, led by veteran Christian nationalist Cho Man-sik. Unlike their American counterparts, the Soviet authorities recognized and worked with the People's Committees.By some accounts, Cho Man-sik was the Soviet government's first choice to lead North Korea. On September 19, Kim Il-sung and 36 other Korean Red Army officers arrived in Wonsan. They had fought the Japanese in Manchuria in the 1930s but had lived in the USSR and trained in the Red Army since 1941. On October 14, Soviet authorities introduced Kim to the North Korean public as a guerrilla hero.

OK so the peninsula naturally leaned communist and the soviet union kinda hosed it up by insisting on their guy being in charge

colombia.edu posted:

By the summer of 1947, it was clear that the bilateral Joint Commission set up by the Moscow Conference was failing.
According to a plan it had been working on for a year, the US brought the "problem of Korean independence" to the UN.
Not to the Security Council where a Soviet veto was possible but to the General Assembly, which has according to the
Charter only the powers to "discuss" and "recommend".

The Soviet Union offered a counter proposal: Both sides remove their troops to allow "the Korean people itself the
establishment of a national government". A survey found that 57% of Koreans living in the US zone supported that
proposal.

But the US had made the strategic decision to involve the UN before it would remove its troops. The Soviet Union made
known that it rejected the legitimacy of the General Assembly debating this question. The Soviet Union made a
proposal that defended the right of self determination of the Korean people and required that Koreans participate in
the UN debate over their independence. On Nov 14, 1947, the majority of the General Assembly members passed
Resolution 112 (II) recognizing the "rightful claims of the people of Korea to independence". But instead of allowing
Koreans to participate in the UN debate, the resolution established a United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea
(called UNTCOK) to travel, observe and hold consultations throughout Korea to oversee which Koreans would be allowed
to participate. The language of the resolution seemed to treat the Korean people as one nation and set as its purpose
the independence of that nation. But the action of sending the commission could also be seen as an intervention in
the internal affairs of the Korean people and a road block to their independence.

When the UNTCOK commission arrived in Seoul it adopted a resolution "that the sphere of this Commission is the whole
of Korea and not merely a section". It immediately found two obstacles. First, the Soviet Union stood firm therefore
UNTCOK could not consult or observe in the Soviet zone. Second, the social and political situation in the US zone
meant UNTCOK could not consult with most leftist parties due to the suppression of left wing activity by the US
military government. The US military government in the southern zone had outlawed the Korean Communist Party in May
1946. Despite the suppression, many groups and some leftists did convey to the Commission their opposition to
creating a separate South Korean state.

http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/Korea/UN-Role-in-Korean-Division-Nov14.txt

OK so the US installed a dictator against popular opinion in the south and the north invaded to protect the Sovereignty of Korea oops

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