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Der Kyhe posted:As it turns out, being invaded by the Soviet Union who tried to kill everyone and failing that, send the rest to the Siberia. The hottest take.
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Jun 7, 2019 10:04
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organburner posted:Wait, how is this a hot take? Because the Soviet Union was not out to kill everyone and send the remaining ones to Siberia. Nor did the western powers have any reason to give aid to a minor nation that had well developed military and governmental ties to Germany, and that was attacked by the Soviet Union, another great power of dubious intention who just recently made a non aggression pact with Germany. The western powers (aside from the US) was at the time very busy getting stomped by Germany, and had no interest in making another immidiate enemy in the Soviet Union, just for the sake of uselessly trying to support a poor breakaway state in an unreinforcable territory that until a mere 20 years earlier was part of the Russian Empire (albeit as an "independent" buffer state).
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Jun 9, 2019 14:10
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C.M. Kruger posted:Except for all the times they did. So which countries were subjected to this "kill everyone, and failing that, send the rest to Siberia" treatment by the Soviet Union? Give the names and numbers to back it up. It sure wasn't the approach taken for the other Baltic countries which were occupied by the Soviet Union after the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. They were occupied and any leadership and intelligentsia etc were shipped off to Siberia, where of course many died because it's Siberia and the Soviet Union gave few shits about anyone sent there. However, the great majority of the population stayed and was repressed locally. A heavy handed occupation with the explicit long term intention to erase the countries as national entities sure, but it was not a kill everyone genocide. It's not like Finland made the wrong decision to resist a likely brutal Soviet occupation, but to ascribe the motivation of the Soviets to kill everyone, that's just BS.
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Jun 9, 2019 21:21
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Der Kyhe posted:So because I used a common war-time hyperbole which was used to unify the county to rally them against common woe to answer to a question, you just needed to drop by and white knight Soviet Union and the Josef "Fuckin" Stalin? I'm not white knighting, I'm  ing about your dumb ahistorical hyperbole. I mean there are a lot of ways you can poo poo on the Soviet Union you don't need to make things up.Anyway, this is one of my favorite historical photos  It's not because it's an old or special photo or anything. It's the motif, the denisova cave, which is a cave that have been inhabited by at least three modern hominins, Neanderthals, Modern humans and the namesakes the Denisovans. All of them have lived in the cave at one point during the last 50 000 years, and all have seen the more or less the exact same cave entrance as you can see in the picture. And it's very likely that at least one of the individuals that have occupied it during the past is a direct ancestor of yours.
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Jun 10, 2019 07:15
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Alhazred posted:Soviet deported a shitload of people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union They sure did, and very often in a very racist manner too, so any group that didn't neatly conform to white/european peasants got shafted extra hard. When they occupied Estonia after Molotov Ribbentrop they sent away 1/5th of all Estonians on trains to Siberia as they were part of "troublesome" social classes, occupations or organisation (soldiers, student leaders, politicians, journalists etc). In total 1/3 of the population was directly affected by repression (deportations, arrests, executions, asset seizures etc). I would still not consider that a kill everyone and deport the rest to Siberia motivation, because their goal was to occupy and forcefully convert the society to a totalitarian soviet state. Really, why this whole thing started was because someone posted a bad take on the motivation of the Soviet Union for invading Finland, an even worse take on how the western allies somehow were to blame and me being unable to not scratch that posting itch when seeing that bad history.Also, more historical pictures. As I really like cave art here is proof that someone 30 000 years ago made better posts than me. 
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Jun 11, 2019 22:32
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Alhazred posted:The death toll was in the millions, I call that a deport the ones you don't kill policy. So you agree that when Finland was invaded the Soviet Union tried to kill everyone and failing that, send the rest to the Siberia? Because that's a ludicrous statement considering the large majority of people that did not die or get deported, either in Finland (3,5 million pre war pop) nor in the other annexed territory or soviet state (170 million pre war pop). Also, more cave art. This time hands. Hands painted like this are frequently found in cave paintings from France to borneo during a time span of tens of thousands of years, which is really amazing in terms of spread and lasting cultural significance of this specific imagery. Obviously they had the skill to paint other human depictions that was not stylized depictions, but tagging your artwork with presumably your own hand is by far the most common "realistic" human imagery in ancient cave paintings. Also, a very high amount of these hands are missing parts of their fingers, which have prompted speculation of everything from common frostbite damage, artistic license, religious significance and widespread ruital self amputation. 
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Jun 12, 2019 11:35
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Alhazred posted:I didn't really talk about Finland but countries like Crimea where its hard to not argue that the end goal was not eradication so that russians could move in Yes but the conversation was about Finland and my posts was about how wrong it is to claim that the Soviet Union, when it invaded Finland, "tried to kill everyone and failing that, send the rest to the Siberia". Because for Finland specifically and the majority of people and ethnic groups within the Soviet Union or its annexed/occupied lands, that was not the case. Especially not so for populations/minorities as numerous as the Finns (would be third largest ethnic group, close behind Kazaks and Uzbeks). You can find tables with numbers in chapter 5 of this freely available academic book that shows examples of the relatively low amount of deaths. The book also goes into detail of the reasons why the purges happened and the logic behind them (hint, it was paranoia and racism coupled with trying to force a communist society into existence). I'm not saying killings, deportations and repressions are good, that they didn't happen or that it was not a spectrum of genocide against several of the 188 ethnicities present in the Soviet Union. I'm just saying that someone posting that the Soviet Union "tried to kill everyone and failing that, send the rest to the Siberia" in regards to its invasions of Finland, is spewing dumb loving hyperbole. Unrelated, here is some ancient cave art that shows an example of those cave paintings where the hand was missing parts of fingers. 
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Jun 12, 2019 22:31
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Temaukel posted:Maybe making that hand gesture had a particular significance. I think that's more likely than a guy missing his third and second phalanx bone in all fingers except the thumb and index. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the hand on the right is holding up the index, middle finger and thumb. Interpreting the missing digits as sign language have been a favorite too, especially as several rock paintings in Australia have have clear sign language uses. But other cave art from France look very different and there it could make more sense with ritual amputation, which was apparently not as uncommon as one might think considering these researchers found 121 groups where the practice occurred in recent history, even among hunter gatherers.
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Jun 13, 2019 05:25
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I mean, that helmet and curiass could in theory probably stop some of the artillery shrapnel that likely killed half of them. The everything else though...
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Jul 29, 2020 15:14
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Gargamel Gibson posted:"I love Taco Bell" ? He asked his equally shot up and dying wife to try and pull through for the sake of their children.
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Jul 4, 2021 20:45
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Wasabi the J posted:Eva Brown Literally her name, in German.
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Dec 17, 2022 20:32
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:31 |
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Carthag Tuek posted:
In Swedish sluka still means eat and lort means dirt or poo poo. So possibly poo poo-eater?
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Jun 14, 2023 17:11
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