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The week it came out it was in 3(!) theaters.
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Oct 31, 2018 13:50
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There are showtimes tonight in Asheville but I’ve got too much going on 
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Oct 31, 2018 14:49
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I saw the OG one finally from the new 4k restoration a few days ago, and then went and saw the remake last night. OG: Super hyped up just on name alone so I was expecting something more in terms of story. There really isn't much of one and what there is doesn't make much sense if you think about it. The soundtrack also comes off way more grating then I thought it would, considering how much it gets mentioned. I kinda found it annoying to be perfectly honest. The acting is pretty wooden, the whole ADR the entire thing is also really off-putting (I almost never watch a dub but everyone said it was the way to go, maybe watching the Italian dub and reading it would have distracted me from this more)..the blood is, almost mst3k level bad... I'm trying to get out of the context of 2018 when giving my opinion on it, but it's tough. Even for 1977 a lot of those aspects are rough when you consider what else was releasing (star wars, close encounters, eraserhead).. The positives being the set design, even if it is insanely over the top, and the lighting (ditto). I would tend to hate unmotivated colored vomit style lighting, but I gotta give argento credit, it sorta works somehow for this considering how over the top every other element is. And in terms of influencing other filmmakers I appreciate it for that aesthetic. There's no way you can't see how something like Beyond the Black Rainbow isn't a direct homage during the invisible witch/knife scene. If I say suspiria you instantly think of deep red windows in the airport (uhh wha?) that's how iconic it is. That said.. Suspiria (2018): I'm going to try and be vague on spoilers since it's super limited right now. I clearly have no attachment to the OG version, so I think I went into this without bias. For sure it drags, the things it adds from the OG version weigh the thing down and it mercifully shows you where you are in the film via title card (act 1, etc etc) so you at least know where you stand with the 2.5 hour runtime. It steers clear of the RGB gaudy vibe to stand out from the original and I think that works way better if you're trying to give the story more weight. Most of the film I kept thinking, this reminds me of fassbinder and later I came across interviews where that was his inspiration for this, so mission accomplished..It 100% feels like it takes place in a fassbinder film. They also, I think rightfully so, focus more on the dance aspect. Not black swan levels still, but more than the passing framing device that it is in the original which helps the plot of the thing make more sense overall. I mean let's be honest, witches open a dance school is pretty lame without any structuring or layering. So, a different approach to the cinematography and set design absolutely, but works very well and manages to be its own thing. Plot-wise, very similar beats, additional plotlines/characters that drag the gently caress out of it and only serve the dumb gimmick thingy they decided to do it's very obviously tilda swinton. They don't go down the same road though ultimately and the final third gave me very similar vibes to "mother"...So much so that I feel the exact same way as I did with that film- I liked it and I also disliked it greatly. I don't think I'd recommend it to anyone I know, nor do I want to see it again. This movie is going to be very polarizing if anyone actually sees it. e: -Somehow didn't talk about the thom yorke score...a million times better then goblins. I sort of wish I could take this score and put it over the original movie. -There's a stinger. suzy is writing/painting something off screen for a few seconds...what? why? is this..for a sequel? -There is no blind guy screaming YOU STUPID BITCH, maybe in a sequel 
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Oct 31, 2018 23:16
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Watched it last night in a crowded, sold out theater. It kinda blew me away. It feels less like a remake, and more like how say, for example Hammer did a different interpretation of the Frankenstein story than remade the Universal version. Like, there's the same kernel of a plot: In the late 70s, talented dancer Suzy Bannon comes from America to the Berlin based Markos Dance Academy Which in turn is run by a coven of Witches devoted to the unholy Mother Susperiorum, and not above sacrificing their students violently but like, past that elevator pitch, it's a completely different film, and is dishonest to both films to compare them together. Indeed, before the film is halfway over, it's obvious that it's going in a drastically different direction with the plot than the original film did despite the similar setup. The acting and the writing are fine, and the music is alright, but that's not why we go to see a movie called suspiria, is it? It's how the movie LOOKS that's the front and center stage, and the new film doesn't fail to be provocative there either. Where the original was Art Nouveau in its every inch, the new film stamps that out in brutalism. The frame is constantly filled with neutral colors and oppressive angles. The characters are often made to feel small and crushed by the camera. Not only that, but the camerwork itself is a major character making the viewer uncomfortable in the way it's smoothly almost always moving in some way, whether in subtle pans or sudden zooms like some sort of wild animal. The very rare times it's completely still only underscore these movements, much like the rare splashes of vibrant color only highlight the suffocating nature of the neutral colors on display. If I have a complaint, it's that the epilogue feels like it drags on longer than needed, and the ending shot I'm not to clear on the meaning of. Does it have to do with The political backdrop that informed the plot as it went along? I dunno. Also as the previous poster noted, there's a seemingly pointless stinger after the credits that is also unclear to me. Was she painting over the political graffiti on the wall across from the school entrance? That would make sense with the mirroring going on with the hijack events happening parallel to the plot I suppose
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Nov 1, 2018 19:00
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Plus: film looks gorgeous. Tilda Swinton could read the phone book and I’d buy streaming rights. The dance scenes, both instruction and the big performance, are riveting. Minus (for me): Lack of anything comparable to replace Goblin/Suspiria theme music. The side plot involving the old doctor seemed extraneous/too much for me, I preferred where it was simply the story of Suzy and her Nancy Drew discovery of What Was Going On At The Ballet School. The Baader-Meinhof story running in parallel didn’t do it for me either. I didn’t like that they put the fact that it was a witch coven from the very beginning, along with the power struggle between Blanc and Markos. it removed that peeling away the layer of mystery aspect which I think is good even when you know what’s going on. Finale is too long and shows “too much leg” in my opinion. I didn’t care for the Jabba the Hutt design of Helena Markos.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:31
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Zwabu posted:I didn’t care for the Jabba the Hutt design of Helena Markos. I had no idea that was also Tilda until I got home and saw it mentioned. Cool I guess? I feel like she just played three fairly pointless characters in the grand scheme of the thing
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Nov 1, 2018 20:45
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As I said in the Horror thread, Helen Markos had already attempted the body snatching ritual with the first girl and it didn't work, the witches mention this early on after the vote, not sure why it didn't work, either because Patricia wasn't a willing participant, or because it had been centuries since that spell had been used. Notice how she has extraneous body parts like the hands dangling off her biceps. The ritual failed in that she only partially merged with her instead of a full body takeover, and is probably why her death seemed imminent. I don't know that I'd say the climax "showed too much leg" as much as it was a little jarring and sudden and felt like it needed more buildup. Also glancing on imdb reveals a spoilery little fun subtle bit. the Death Monster was the same actress as Suzy's mother
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Nov 1, 2018 20:50
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Choco1980 posted:As I said in the Horror thread, Helen Markos had already attempted the body snatching ritual with the first girl and it didn't work, the witches mention this early on after the vote, not sure why it didn't work, either because Patricia wasn't a willing participant, or because it had been centuries since that spell had been used. Notice how she has extraneous body parts like the hands dangling off her biceps. The ritual failed in that she only partially merged with her instead of a full body takeover, and is probably why her death seemed imminent. Sure, but all that nonwithstanding I thought the creature design was stupid looking, I didn't want to hear its voice, it was just plain bad IMO outside of any rationale about why it looked the way it did. It was not only bad but also bad in a very CGI looking way.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:58
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I only saw the original for the first time like last month, but it immediately felt like a masterpiece to me. It just did so many things right, from the unsettling and memorable Goblin score to the strange, surreal color palette to the length (it gets going immediately, does what it needs to do and then ends). Saw the remake last night, and, well, didn't get any of that from it. The music was fine but nothing memorable/unsettling like Goblin's music in the original (I'm typically a fan of Thom Yorke's work but there was nothing about this that particularly stuck out, except for the songs where he does vocals, which felt very out of place and I felt undermined the scenes they were in), the film didn't feel visually interesting at all outside of a few scenes, and it felt padded and overlong. It didn't need to be a shot for shot remake for me to enjoy it, but I just didn't find myself interested in this director's take on the original at all. The Holocaust plot felt like it belonged in a different movie entirely. And Jessica Harper's in this one too, but in a very small part, and it almost feels insulting to even include her in the film because Dakota Johnson really can't fill her shoes in the lead role. I went into this very excited for it (got tickets several days early) but left pretty disappointed zer0spunk posted:I had no idea that was also Tilda until I got home and saw it mentioned. Cool I guess? I feel like she just played three fairly pointless characters in the grand scheme of the thing  I didn't know she had played Dr. Josef until I got home either. I've got no qualms with her playing a man, I just thought that was an actor who wasn't particularly good while I was watching it, not Tilda. Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 23:01
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Choco1980 posted:As I said in the Horror thread, Helen Markos had already attempted the body snatching ritual with the first girl and it didn't work, the witches mention this early on after the vote, not sure why it didn't work, either because Patricia wasn't a willing participant, or because it had been centuries since that spell had been used. Notice how she has extraneous body parts like the hands dangling off her biceps. The ritual failed in that she only partially merged with her instead of a full body takeover, and is probably why her death seemed imminent. I'm still sort of confused by this tbh So the real suspiria was suzy not markos, that's pretty straight forward with the whole who anointed you cuz it wasn't me reveal thing..but if suzy is actually the real witch in undercover boss mode or whatever..what the hell are her flashbacks we witness? is that just before she became this super witch or what have you and is meant to be a fakeout that she's not from some amish sect in ohio but it's actually in the 1700's? Also that extra floppy baby hand was like the ONLY thing I could focus on during that scene..and then blurry long /slow shutter head exploding ensued.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:25
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I think it was more Suzy didn't know she was some sort of reincarnation of Suspiria until she had that awakening before the ceremony. Her mom's "Sin" was giving birth to such an evil. Note how she told Josef that she wasn't in her power yet when the other witches wronged him with the vision on Ankya. I wonder if Blanc knew before things blew up from being so close with Suzy. Note how Death only went after the Markos voters. Also, Blanc abstained from voting for herself, she seems like she very much wanted to be the real power as second in command...and when Suspiria killed Markos, that kinda put her in charge of the school behind the scenes when it was revealed she still lived despite the neck cut. Suzy spent her whole childhood drawn to Blanc and her school. I keep going around in circles on all that wondering if Blanc orchestrated everything
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Nov 2, 2018 00:19
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I'm going to see this over the weekend since it's got a pretty wide release here.
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Nov 2, 2018 01:48
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I thought this was alright but it really could have been 40 minutes shorter. Count me among those not understanding what the post credit scene was supposed to be telling us. Tilda Swinton was great as Blanc. I also thought Mia Goth was really good. I enjoyed the increased emphasis on dance. Edit: I should add that I think Suspiria ‘77 is a perfect masterpiece and the biggest flaw of Suspiria ‘18 is that no one jumps into a room filled with barbed wire Blast Fantasto fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 04:55
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Hollismason posted:I'm going to see this over the weekend since it's got a pretty wide release here. This was supposed to get a wide release in Canada this weekend and I DON'T SEE poo poo ANYWHERE!!
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Nov 2, 2018 07:31
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I'm a super fan of the original, and I just got back from seeing the remake. Pic related, it's me walking out of the theater when it was over. I kinda feel like I'm in the same boat as a lot of reviewers that I've seen online; I think I loved it, but I can totally understand anyone who hated it. The whole thing just felt incredibly disorienting; the clips that got released online don't really do justice to how bizarre it all feels. Yeah, everything was desaturated, but just like the original, it all feels super artificial and alienating, in a good way. I didn't expect it to be as gorgeous as it was without the iconic colored lighting. I definitely want to see it again while it's in theaters. It needs multiple viewings. I almost wish they hadn't tried to market it as a horror movie like the original. It's not really. And it's not nearly as grotesque as they've been making it out to be. It's got horror elements and violence, for sure, but it felt much more like an absurdist dark fantasy. I also ended up having a really strong emotional reaction to the last bit that I'm having trouble putting into words. It really wormed it's way into my psyche and touched a nerve in me that's been really having a hard time coping with our current political realities. Anyways, super rambly thoughts after my first experience with it, but as of now, I'd say it's definitely apples and oranges with the original, and I think it's certainly better than the Three Mothers trilogy as a whole. Edit - I'd also be super interested in hearing people's thoughts about the faculty member who's constantly dejected and crying. I kept waiting for an explicit reveal that she's the current embodiment of Mother Lachrymarum (the Mother of Tears), but then she just went and spontaneously offed herself.. discoukulele fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 08:31
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zer0spunk posted:I had no idea that was also Tilda until I got home and saw it mentioned. Cool I guess? I feel like she just played three fairly pointless characters in the grand scheme of the thing Also, to this point - I'd read somewhere before I saw the movie that Tilda playing the psychologist, Madame Blanc, and Helena Markos was supposed to invoke the id, ego, and super ego, but I definitely need some more time to process that idea.
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Nov 2, 2018 08:36
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Just a question for people who've seen the remake: is there any vomit in it? I've got a bit of a phobia about it but I'll be goddamned if I wait to see a freakin' Suspiria remake so it'd be cool to know going in.
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Nov 2, 2018 10:07
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sethsez posted:Just a question for people who've seen the remake: is there any vomit in it? I've got a bit of a phobia about it but I'll be goddamned if I wait to see a freakin' Suspiria remake so it'd be cool to know going in. Yes. At least stuff coming out of the mouth, vomit or bile.
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Nov 2, 2018 13:29
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Here are all of the echoes of the original Suspiria that I noticed on first watch The obvious: - Character/place names/general concept - Jessica Harper as Anke - Three mothers (I forget, does the original actually name mother tenebrarum and mother lachrymarum, or does that not come up until Inferno?) Less obvious: - Counting steps - Room full of artifacts/trinkets - Secret hallways/caverns throughout the studio - “The Iris room” Anything I missed? I’m sure there is.
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Nov 2, 2018 15:34
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- Susie's mother's death rattle and OG Helena Markos' snoring. - Olga's phone call - Caroline's collapse and nosebleed - Sara unknowingly steps into an environmental hazard, becomes undead Also - Blast Fantasto posted:
Yeah, the other Mothers aren't mentioned until Inferno discoukulele fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 15:51
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Good ones, I didn’t even think about Sara getting caught in the floor hole being so similar to the barbed wire scene of the original
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Nov 2, 2018 16:10
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Blast Fantasto posted:Yes. At least stuff coming out of the mouth, vomit or bile. Bleh Thanks!
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Nov 2, 2018 22:47
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I've seen a whole lot of Fassbinder comparisons, but did anyone else get some heavy Zulawski vibes from this?
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Nov 3, 2018 02:42
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Saw the remake last night. I thought it was great. It felt like Guadagnino had absorbed the Argento version at a molecular level, then rebuilt a totally unique version of the story from his point of view. Despite being wildly different than the original, it still retained the elements that make Suspiria “Suspiria,” which is a pretty amazing feat, since the screenplay seemed to operate from the point of view that whatever choice Argento and Nicolodi made, the opposite choice should be explored. The original’s German setting is arbitrary? Make it a direct part of the story. Psychologist character exists solely to give a brief exposition dump? Center him as the primary instrument of unraveling the mystery. Not really all that much dance despite the setting? Make the dance an essential element. The school itself teaches ballet, which has strict and codified methods? Now it’s a neo-expressionist style that is driven by emotion and improvisation. The coven is very lightly sketched? Dive deeply into their inner workings.Suzy is a mostly dazed and unaware victim of the coven? Make her Mother Suspiriorum. And on and on. The net effect of these choices and Guadagnino‘s direction is actually that the fairy tale quality of the original is amplified. The core elements that are at play in both versions begin to feel like some deep seated, ingrained folklore that is being played out as a 2018 art film. I am a huge fan of the original, and have probably seen it on average once a year for the last 20 years (I know I’ve seen it in the theater at least 5 times). This new version completely exceeded my expectations. In my opinion, it doesn’t really exist to be compared in a qualitative sense to the original, they both are great in their ways.
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Nov 3, 2018 14:03
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discoukulele posted:Yeah, everything was desaturated, but just like the original, it all feels super artificial and alienating, in a good way. I didn't expect it to be as gorgeous as it was without the iconic colored lighting. 100%. The way most of the film reviews I've read miss this (or say they share nothing in common outside of some story beats) is strange. They feel very aligned to me.
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Nov 3, 2018 15:14
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I believe that all remakes are variations on a 'theme', and with all theme and variations, one has to identify what the 'theme' is. The filmmakers for this variation chose to keep the setting and two important plot points (that the school is a veil for a witches' coven and that some new American girl shows up), basically saying that these things could not be changed without compromising the film's identity as a remake. Like all good variations, the film takes the same basic structure and shows us a powerful reimagining, to remind us how differently and how far one can take the same idea. But do you guys agree with my assessment that this basic 'theme' is what is essential to a Suspiria film? I have heard some disappointment that taking away the style of the original destroys what was good about it. If this is true, should we consider instead the visual style and excess of the original to be what is really essential to a Suspiria film? As in, could the makers of the new film have kept the visual style of the original but changed everything else and still call it Suspiria?
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Nov 3, 2018 15:35
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If that's the case, then Inferno is entirely unrelated to Suspiria, which is like sure, ok, that's an argument I guess.
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Nov 3, 2018 16:25
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discoukulele posted:I'd also be super interested in hearing people's thoughts about the faculty member who's constantly dejected and crying. I kept waiting for an explicit reveal that she's the current embodiment of Mother Lachrymarum (the Mother of Tears), but then she just went and spontaneously offed herself.. I think that she had some feelings that Susie was Mother Suspiriorum right from the start, but she voted for Markos in the voting scene. Eventually, she can’t bear the thought of the vengeance that is coming for her, so she kills herself? I dunno. Have to listen to her character be called and her response on a rewatch.
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Nov 3, 2018 17:36
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discoukulele posted:Edit - I'd also be super interested in hearing people's thoughts about the faculty member who's constantly dejected and crying. I kept waiting for an explicit reveal that she's the current embodiment of Mother Lachrymarum (the Mother of Tears), but then she just went and spontaneously offed herself.. She's someone I'm going to be focusing on in a potential rewatch - my initial thought was that she was some sort of projecting empath, hence the cuts to her crying when Olga suddenly couldn't control her tears before going into the mirror room and the social divide between her and the rest of the coven. She voted for Markos in the beginning and I could see someone with that power being able to sense the awakening of the power and going out the way she did instead of experiencing whatever reckoning was coming
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Nov 3, 2018 17:43
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Agreed, she was the one piece of the puzzle that didn't easily fall into place for me, and I too want to try to focus my attention more on her in rewatches. Regarding the visual style, as I've said before, Argento bathes every frame in Art Nouveau, Guadagnino meanwhile uses just as wide brush strokes, instead going with Brutalism. It's no less visually stunning, just a different mode.
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Nov 3, 2018 18:39
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Yeah, I really like all of those ideas, especially that she's either supernaturally empathic, or just guilt-ridden about how they've been exploiting/torturing the students. As I've been thinking about the movie more, something that I absolutely love is how they made the distinction that Helena Markos isn't Mater Suspiriorum. It's super ambiguous in the originals, so it comes off like the Three Mothers are somehow simultaneously elder beings who are supposed to basically be the Three Fates, but they're also three real women who physically existed in the 19th century and could be forced to flee countries when people got uncomfortable. It makes much more sense to me that Helena Markos was just a follower of Suspiriorum. The original draft of the script leaked, and something that I thought was kinda cool that didn't make the cut, or was maybe too subtle for me to realize was that during the final ritual, the three women who had been killed (Patricia, Olga, and Sara) are dressed up as the Three Mothers. I think the other thing that still hasn't really clicked for me is what exactly happened to Caroline when she had her seizure? I think i might try to see it again tomorrow. I definitely need to see it again on the big screen.
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Nov 3, 2018 19:29
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And I thought the most walk outs was during Heredity. Holy poo poo did this cause a lot of walk outs. I counted at least 15 people walk out. The first dance studio part 2 people walked, the police officer scene caused about 7 and the near end scene 6 left.
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Nov 3, 2018 20:45
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:the police officer scene caused about 7 haha, seriously? That was the moment where I started rooting for the coven.
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Nov 3, 2018 20:59
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I'm not sure what people thought going in. The crowd had a lot of older people and they were the walk outs. Some older people stuck around but it was just one after the other
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Nov 3, 2018 21:21
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So was the seizure the Caroline suffered from a spell that was designed to extract her ability to jump and confer it upon Suzy? Also what is your take on the relationship between Mme Blanc and Suzy? That she was in fact preparing her for sacrifice as was her duty but that she felt conflicted because she had genuine feelings of affection and love for her as a mentor? Was the idea that Suzy's body would somehow become a vessel to receive Markos who would then live on in that body? Or something else?
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Nov 3, 2018 21:57
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Zwabu posted:So was the seizure the Caroline suffered from a spell that was designed to extract her ability to jump and confer it upon Suzy? For the Caroline thing that's the only reading that made sense to me - you don't see Caroline suffering reduced abilities afterward, but that happened right after the conversation about Suzy not being ready yet and Caroline was ever only really singled out for the jumps. I'm curious why there was so much gravity to making that move by the members of the coven, the dancers were effectively a front and Caroline's the only one in danger there. Maybe Suzy being unable to hit the jumps without the transferred ability is seen as a sign that she's fundamentally unsuitable to make the transfer? for the second thing, that's some of it but I don't think it's all of it - Blanc feels something's wrong during the dinner scene where she's staring at Suzy (who has pretty much fully changed her demeanor and body language by then), not sure if there was anything tipping her off earlier. She doesn't want to sacrifice Suzy and she doesn't believe in the legitimacy of Markos, but I think there's something else there (even if I'm not sure what it is) I was thinking of Slade House when it came to the vessel bits and the ceremony - there's a transfer of youth/life force/soul/whatever to Markos and she's effectively reborn while the vessel's body is left as just a husk. The vestigial limbs and stuff on Markos' body and the gray shambling remains of the people that Sara finds both squared with failed attempts at that to me.
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Nov 3, 2018 23:45
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Okay, wow. I knew this was going to be nothing like Suspiria, but I was expecting Black Swan instead of a thoughtful period drama with perhaps 5% horror elements. I wouldn't even call this arthouse, it's got none of the trappings that I usually would attach to that name, it's just an amazingly German drama movie for a German audience, baffingly made by an Italian director funded by a US studio, under the guise of being an American remake of the most Italian horror movie. I can absolutely see this not playing well with an international audience who's not versed in German post-war history and sensibilities, the movie just sort of expects the audience to have it. I think my favourite scene was Dr. Klemperer (holy poo poo it's Tilda Swinton?) thanking the bald police officer for his help during the war in confirming his disappeared wife was not sent to Poland (meaning to an extermination camp), and the officer saying nothing. Thanks you nazi gently caress, hopefully they did cut his dick off. It does make me wonder what the witches were doing during the war. Few of them have typically German names (compare to the three credited male roles Klemperer, Albrecht, Glockner). They need guilt, and shame. Does it explain their power? Germany would be a drat good place for them then. Also the line "Why is everyone so ready to think the worst is over?" Yikes, it better be, all things considered.
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Nov 4, 2018 16:42
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I don't think you have to be German to get/be interested in their post-war tensions. Worked fine for this New Zealander 
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Nov 5, 2018 00:30
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This felt like the flipside of Gus Van Sant's Psycho - they were so terrified of living up to the original's reputation that they decided to go in the opposite direction with every single choice. I found it equally just as frustrating and unnecessary, but Swinton (as Madame Blanc, I thought every moment she was onscreen as Josef to be a distraction) and the dancing ruled. EDIT: And when I say the dancing ruled, I mean everyone danced like Elizabeth Berkley in Showgirls. caligulamprey fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Nov 5, 2018 |
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Nov 5, 2018 00:56
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Saw this yesterday and I keep thinking about it. It's like a more dour Neon Demon without the neon. I think it starts a little slow, but when Susie does her first dance as the Protagonist, it REALLY picks up into a what-the-gently caress-fest. The third act was b-a-n-a-n-a-s. I really loved it, but I can see how a lot of people will hate it. I think the epilogue was (for me) unnecessary but I'm open to being convinced. Is there a good reading on why Bader-Meinhoff was always going on in the background? I'm aware of the phenomenon (when you learn something new and suddenly see it everywhere) but it seemed like the filmmakers were using the event/group itself as a thematic reference. Any ideas?
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Nov 5, 2018 01:40
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