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Game sucks. For all the reasons outlined in the previous negative posts. I'm sorry I spent money on this, but at least I didn't buy the full season.
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Oct 1, 2018 03:52
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bewilderment posted:I know this has been hashed to death in prior threads but I think the bigger issue with LiS1 is that prior to the actual final decision and ending, Max and Chloe seem to definitely make the conclusion that "Chloe alive = horrible hurricane" based on very little evidence at all; when a much more reasonable conclusion (with the limited evidence available) is that something weird is happening in the world, with the beached whales, and the two moons, and the looming hurricane; and that Max's time travel powers are a symptom of all of that, not somehow the cause. that's because people were approaching it like a science-fiction story instead of the magical-realism story it actually was the events of LiS were based around emotional landscapes/fairytale logic, there isn't a pat explanation for many of the supernatural events because in some way or another they all tie back to Max's psyche
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Oct 1, 2018 04:25
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To be fair, the person who figures that Chloe Alive = Hurricane is Chloe, not Max. It's been shown a bunch that Chloe is way smarter than she lets on, I don't think it's crazy that she figured out that her avoiding death (she specifically mentions all the times she almost died during your week together) is bringing this storm. She's the one who tells Max to go back in time and let her die to stop all this. I think Max thinks all that poo poo is her using her time travel powers too much, while Chloe seems to be aware that it's actually related to her avoiding death, not the time travel itself. The universe doesn't seem to really have an issue with Max using her time travel to save Alyssa from her bad luck. So the universe is basically going "either you die, or all these people die", but Chloe ultimately leaves the decision up to Max Nothing is ever confirmed one way or the other about how all this magic stuff works, but the storm absolutely happens if Chloe is alive and it absolutely doesn't if she's dead. I think Chloe realizes this even if she doesn't experience the alternate realities
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Oct 1, 2018 04:48
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Oxxidation posted:that's because people were approaching it like a science-fiction story instead of the magical-realism story it actually was Macaluso posted:Nothing is ever confirmed one way or the other about how all this magic stuff works, but the storm absolutely happens if Chloe is alive and it absolutely doesn't if she's dead. I think Chloe realizes this even if she doesn't experience the alternate realities Except that there doesn't appear to be any weirdness in the reality where Chloe just ended up disabled. Magical realism leaves stuff unexplained, and that's fine. Fairy-tale logic is fine but it's still usually some kind of logic or magical thinking. I don't criticise the LiS1 ending because of fairytale logic (and I'm still a fan and bought the whole of LiS2 without even bothering to test episode 1!) but because it doesn't really follow any logic. Especially since right now with LiS2, there's no time shenanigans going on (yet) - there's no way to 'undo' anything that's happened so far, and if Daniel saved Chris back in Captain Spirit then it shows you can have powers and save a life and reality doesn't start collapsing. (yes, I totally get that the story of LiS2 didn't exist when LiS1 was being created)
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Oct 1, 2018 05:04
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Uh there's definitely still weirdness in the disabled Chloe timeline. Max and Chloe literally go to the beach and see dead whales there.
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Oct 1, 2018 05:12
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bewilderment posted:Magical realism leaves stuff unexplained, and that's fine. Only bad magical realism. The good kind (which LiS is) ties up supernatural occurrences in metaphor and the inner thoughtscapes of the characters themselves. Everything that happens in LiS ties back to Max believing she killed Chloe by refusing to confront her feelings and speak to her sooner, and all of the weirdness is a big cosmic moral telling her that she can't escape the consequences of her actions no matter what she tries. Even Chloe and her own character progression is really just a supplement to Max's own, since she similarly tried to put her life on pause after her father's death and eventually decides that you can't just try to hold the future at bay. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 05:16
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bewilderment posted:Except that there doesn't appear to be any weirdness in the reality where Chloe just ended up disabled. But she still ends up dying, either by Max right away or eventually she would, and Max isn't able to save her at all in that reality. We don't see a storm happen cause we never get that far in that reality, but we do see all the dead whales for the first time there. But I imagine if we were to have stayed in that reality we would've seen the weirdness stop. bewilderment posted:Especially since right now with LiS2, there's no time shenanigans going on (yet) - there's no way to 'undo' anything that's happened so far, and if Daniel saved Chris back in Captain Spirit then it shows you can have powers and save a life and reality doesn't start collapsing. I don't think having powers specifically has anything to do with it is what I'm saying. The storm isn't because of the time travel. The storm was completely a Chloe thing, at least that's how I read it, but obviously that's very tied into her and Max together. So Daniel using his powers shouldn't cause any issues, unless he saves someone from dying who the universe wants to die as much as Chloe. If in later episodes it's shown that him using his power starts to cause another storm then I'll end up having to rethink things of course edit: And of course I don't think they'll ever give a definitive answer or explain how any of this works either. Since that's not really the point of the games anyway
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Oct 1, 2018 05:20
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Good point (though another theory given what we got from BtS and a line from Chloe in the original is that Rachel subconsciously created the storm upon her death as revenge against the town that stole everything from her). Let's not split hairs here, by the end of the first game Max is full blown obsessed with Chloe, to the point where she was willing to give up everything (her dreams, the lives of the townspeople, her own sanity, etc.). The more she tried, the more she began to make mistakes and as a result probably contributed in some way to making things worse (hell, if it weren't for Warren's photo I honesty think she might have just killed herself at that point). Chloe realizes all this after Max explains everything after traveling back via said photo. Giving herself up is just as much about saving her friend as it is about saving the town because as long as she sticks around Max will continue to fight desperately for her. If she's gone however, Max is free of her burden and has a second chance to take back the life she gave up (something that neither Chloe or Rachel ever got). As you know, Chloe's loyalty to her friends can border on suicidal at times. She can't bring back her dad, she couldn't protect Rachel but this way she could at the very least save what she had left. Edit: As for Daniel, I will say that his power does have the potential to cause a lot of damage if misused/it goes out of control (he's basically a living storm). As such, I'm kind of interested in seeing where they ultimately go with this. Larryb fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 05:23
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I said this in the previous thread but if nothing else the fact that Max's last name is frickin' Caulfield kind of displayed LiS' intended message in giant neon letters.
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Oct 1, 2018 05:26
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 e: I like this season a bunch so far. The forest parts are beautiful, but they do drag a bit. It's going to suck when they make you choose between killing your brother and letting the whole of California slide into the ocean at the end, though. Angular Cyrus fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 05:55
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Oxxidation posted:I said this in the previous thread but if nothing else the fact that Max's last name is frickin' Caulfield kind of displayed LiS' intended message in giant neon letters. True, Max does share a lot of traits with her namesake Holden Caulfield. Specifically her tendency to go to insane lengths to protect those she loves and her obsession with preserving innocence. Both characters learn a hard lesson regarding this by the end and (in one ending of LiS anyway) eventually have to let go. Mark Jefferson also kind of embodies Holden albeit in a darker fashion (he wants to preserve the moment innocence dies through his photography while Max tries to keep it alive by using her powers to find out what other peoples problems are and then rewind and use that knowledge to fix them). Max and Jefferson also run parallel to each other in that they're both talented photographers who are guilty of abusing their gifts to manipulate others. The difference is that Max is (rarely) ever malicious about it and has a conscience to guide her. Hell, somebody made an entire article about this a while back. BtS even gave us a few more parallels between the game's stars and antagonists: Rachel/James: They're both in a position of high authority (James is the DA while Rachel was the original Queen Bee of Blackwell before Victoria took over), they're both skilled at lying (though with Rachel it's more of a defense mechanism while for James it's almost pathological), they both can't see further than their own nose when it comes to their desires and they both wound up hurting the people they cared about because of that selfishness (though in Rachel's case I don't think she really did it intentionally). Chloe/Damon: This one's kind of a stretch but they're both angry and prone to violence (but in Chloe's case it's partially an act due to the fact she doesn't handle loss/change very well and as a result tries to distance herself in order not to potentially wind up getting hurt again). Chloe is also loyal to her friends to an insane degree while Damon's loyalty seems to only last until you make him mad, at which point all bets are off. Basically I see Damon as what Chloe might be if you stripped away all her better qualities. Chloe/Nathan could also be seen as a slight parallel as they both have daddy issues and react in extreme ways. Of course Nathan took things way further because he was literally mentally ill and had very few good influences guiding him. Larryb fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 14:27
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Episode 1 has kept me curious enough to stick with it. But seriously how can the character obviously modeled on Seth Roger not make a single weed reference?
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Oct 1, 2018 18:52
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e: double post
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Oct 1, 2018 19:01
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Larryb posted:True, Max does share a lot of traits with her namesake Holden Caulfield. Specifically her tendency to go to insane lengths to protect those she loves and her obsession with preserving innocence. Both characters learn a hard lesson regarding this by the end and (in one ending of LiS anyway) eventually have to let go. also that his desire to save/protect people is really just a projection of his own arrested development LiS sort of used "Obstacles" as its theme song but i always thought "Mt. Washington" from the end of episode 2 was a better fit, what with the refrain of "I don't have to see you right now" expressing Max's desire to hold the world in place because she's afraid of the consequences of her actions
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Oct 1, 2018 19:14
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Hell, it's the whole reason why the Rewind power fits her so well. Max is a shy, awkward girl who isn't great with people but at the same time isn't above offering advice to people even though she's hesitant in actually getting personally involved (which does kind of make her a hypocrite in a sense, Max even admits this at one point) so giving her the ability to literally take back her mistakes makes sense. Returning to the original discussion, her obsession with protecting Chloe is also very reminiscent of the one Holden had with his little sister and in both cases it didn't end up going well for either of them. The final decision is basically a choice between letting go and moving on or accepting the mess you created and trying to live with it. That said, I kind of thought "Spanish Sahara" sort of worked well in that regard too (or at the very least it fit the broken young woman Max had become by the end). "Black Flies" from Farewell is totally Chloe's theme song though (just look up the lyrics and you'll see what I mean) though "Numbers" from the initial BtS trailer works too. Speaking of, I really wish they'd found a way to use that song in the actual game somewhere but then again Season 1 also had a few tracks that didn't make it into the game itself. Speaking of which, I'm not terribly impressed with LiS 2's soundtrack at the moment but hopefully we'll get some better songs later down the line. By the way, any idea when the OST for this is coming out? Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 19:27
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I too was unimpressed with the music, but I chalked that up to just not being emotionally invested in the game on any level. LiS was a teenage coming of age power fantasy, which is why the rewind mechanic made so much sense. Max had the ability to have infinite do overs and always say/do the right thing, which is basically every teenagers wet dream. Maybe it will, but I just dont see Daniel being Jean Gray weaving seamlessly into the themes and narrative of this game as it did in the original
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Oct 2, 2018 13:53
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im sick of child caring simulators imo.
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Oct 2, 2018 14:34
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To be fair, I don't exactly hate this game and do see some glimmers of potential here and there. I just hope that, now that things are established and everything is out in the open regarding their dad's death and Daniel's powers, Episode 2 will be where the real plot of LiS 2 begins and things will pick up from there. As has been mentioned before, I really want to see more of Lyla (she's too good a character to just dump after one episode and obviously already has a very close relationship with the Diaz brothers). We've already got Mushroom on board so between her and Chris I wouldn't be surprised if the party starts to expand a bit as we get closer to the end. I wouldn't be surprised if they introduce some kind of gameplay mechanic based around Daniel's telekinesis ability as well. Larryb fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 14:37
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They have to introduce some kind of gameplay mechanic, some kind of puzzle element. If they don't then this game is DOA.
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Oct 2, 2018 14:59
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Paul Zuvella posted:They have to introduce some kind of gameplay mechanic, some kind of puzzle element. If they don't then this game is DOA. Being able to manipulate and move objects around telepathically seems like a good candidate for that (and as we see at the end of Captain Spirit he'll eventually be able to move people using his powers as well). I imagine it'll either have something do with the Daniel option that pops up when interacting with things and/or there might even be some sections where we actually play as Daniel (I'd be surprised if the power just remains cutscene only at any rate). I agree that this game needs some kind of hook beyond the whole child care simulator and resource managnent aspect. Hell, even BtS gave us "boss fights" in a sense via the Backtalk mechanic. Granted it was typically pointless but it was at least something. Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 15:52
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Orange Sunshine posted:In this type of game, the plot is on rails, and there's no avoiding this. Sure but take the confrontation with Hillbill McTrumplover. Fighting him as a scrawny 16-year old would be stupid and and I wasn't about to flee and leave Daniel to him plus make Sean look guilty. So that left trying to reason and when it led to being violently detained despite not having shoplifted, I knew I'd been railroaded into that outcome. Whether or not your approach there has some accumulative behind-the-scenes effect, it's designed so not even the illusion is convincing.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:02
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Karpaw posted:Sure but take the confrontation with Hillbill McTrumplover. Fighting him as a scrawny 16-year old would be stupid and and I wasn't about to flee and leave Daniel to him plus make Sean look guilty. So that left trying to reason and when it led to being violently detained despite not having shoplifted, I knew I'd been railroaded into that outcome. Whether or not your approach there has some accumulative behind-the-scenes effect, it's designed so not even the illusion is convincing. I hope that is kind of the point of this game, highlighting that the immediate impact of decisions may not be always apparent, but can have drastic effects on those around us though Daniel. This obviously had the effect of making every decision in the first episode feel utterly meaningless, but hopefully that dissapaints over time.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:47
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Karpaw posted:Sure but take the confrontation with Hillbill McTrumplover. Fighting him as a scrawny 16-year old would be stupid and and I wasn't about to flee and leave Daniel to him plus make Sean look guilty. So that left trying to reason and when it led to being violently detained despite not having shoplifted, I knew I'd been railroaded into that outcome. Whether or not your approach there has some accumulative behind-the-scenes effect, it's designed so not even the illusion is convincing. It wasn't about whether or not you loving shoplifted! The guy was a loving racist looking for an excuse (not to mention he thought Sean was a cop killer). God, why did so many people loving miss this? I'm fairly certain there were events in season 1 or BtS that technically were 'railroading'. Remember the confrontation with Frank at the junkyard? No matter what you did, he took the gun.
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Oct 2, 2018 18:26
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Yvonmukluk posted:It wasn't about whether or not you loving shoplifted! The guy was a loving racist looking for an excuse (not to mention he thought Sean was a cop killer). God, why did so many people loving miss this? I'm fairly certain there were events in season 1 or BtS that technically were 'railroading'. Remember the confrontation with Frank at the junkyard? No matter what you did, he took the gun. Actually, Frank only takes the gun if you don't try to shoot him. But yes, there was a bit of railroading in the other games as well (especially BtS which practically held your hand the entire time). But yeah, it seems pretty obvious that the only reason that guy was hassling Sean and Daniel was because he heard about them on the news and was just making excuses in order to catch them (he literally tells you this).
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Oct 2, 2018 18:40
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In other news, somebody dug through the game files for LiS 2 and ran into an old friend: https://www.reddit.com/r/lifeisstrangeleaks/comments/9jmfe7/something_heaps_interesting_in_life_is_strange_2/ MAX IS BACK (and my god blue hair does not suit you) Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 21:52
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Yvonmukluk posted:It wasn't about whether or not you loving shoplifted! The guy was a loving racist looking for an excuse (not to mention he thought Sean was a cop killer). God, why did so many people loving miss this? I'm fairly certain there were events in season 1 or BtS that technically were 'railroading'. Remember the confrontation with Frank at the junkyard? No matter what you did, he took the gun. There are people here who think the beginning is soooooo unbelievable and ridiculous like the non-super power part could never happen in real life, they probably think that guy wasn't racist at all
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Oct 2, 2018 21:58
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Macaluso posted:There are people here who think the beginning is soooooo unbelievable and ridiculous like the non-super power part could never happen in real life, they probably think that guy wasn't racist at all I've seen people express disbelief just because it's in the Seattle area, not knowing how conservative the rural areas of western Washington can get. Hell, even in Seattle there are a number of white power groups, the cops have a bad reputation, and one of the most progressive neighborhoods in the city has been seeing a rise in violent hate crimes.
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Oct 2, 2018 22:41
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Larryb posted:In other news, somebody dug through the game files for LiS 2 and ran into an old friend: or they are reusing a hair texture for some random person to save time...
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Oct 2, 2018 22:43
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Paul Zuvella posted:or they are reusing a hair texture for some random person to save time... Reading the comments the image in question was apparently found in a Pre Production folder so it's possible it could have just been a model they threw in to test the new engine and was never intended to be in the final. You never know though. Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 22:49
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After so many instances of devs insisting their obviously political games are not political it's nice to see one from a major publisher that doesn't split hairs. Can't wait to turn Daniel into a mini Magneto and blow away some chuds.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:11
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I have a Bad Decisions playthrough going on at the same time as my normal one. As such, I look forward to raising a future supervillain that may one day turn on me.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:26
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Yvonmukluk posted:It wasn't about whether or not you loving shoplifted! The guy was a loving racist looking for an excuse (not to mention he thought Sean was a cop killer). God, why did so many people loving miss this? I'm fairly certain there were events in season 1 or BtS that technically were 'railroading'. Remember the confrontation with Frank at the junkyard? No matter what you did, he took the gun. The point is that stealing from the store is specifically brought up in the scene, potentially leading players who did it to believe that it's a causal factor behind being captured which it isn't, hence the illusion of choice not holding up. Your counterexample is wrong and the conditional variable there (whether or not Max keeps the gun) comes into play in episode 4 when they go ask Frank about Rachel.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:51
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Played the game today and boy I really like it. Really enjoying Sean and Daniel and had some stand out side characters. I want a game of nothing but Lyla and another game of Brody's adventures in writing for Vice . The music wasn't amazing overall but they nailed the opening song and reminded me how much I like Phoenix.
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Oct 3, 2018 05:55
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As much as I enjoyed this chapter (I love the characters and the concept), the illusion of choice suffers for the fact that some choices that feel big at the time aren't included in the end-of-episode stats. I chose 'discuss' in the 'discuss/attack/flee' choice and thought 'oh, no, I should have fled' when it ended badly, but then it didn't show up at the end, making me suspect that fleeing wouldn't have made a difference. (It seems bizarre that it wasn't included when it was presented in the 'big choice here' crossroads style!) The 'it's time to talk/it's time to dance' choice is another that really should have been included in the stats.
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Oct 3, 2018 09:51
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Rith posted:As much as I enjoyed this chapter (I love the characters and the concept), the illusion of choice suffers for the fact that some choices that feel big at the time aren't included in the end-of-episode stats. I chose 'discuss' in the 'discuss/attack/flee' choice and thought 'oh, no, I should have fled' when it ended badly, but then it didn't show up at the end, making me suspect that fleeing wouldn't have made a difference. It doesn't, the result is the same no matter which of the 3 options you pick (though that begs the question of why the game offered you a choice to begin with in that scene). I seem to remember the previous games having non-choices like that as well but it kind of felt like LiS 2 did it a bit more. Hopefully that'll lessen a bit in future episodes. Sean still needs to grow on me a bit (he's sort of like Max only slightly more assertive but also significantly less charming) but I kind of like Daniel and the other few mains we've seen so far. Hell, Deck Nine? If the next project you're working on is LiS related just forget about Arcadia Bay and give us a prequel/midquel/sequel/whatever staring Lyla instead (at the very least I hope she's a lot better utilized in this game than my previous favorite Steph Gingrich was in the last one). Larryb fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 13:13
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My assumption with the discuss/attack/flee choice is that they were trying to get the player to feel the frustration Sean would be feeling at the time, how in spite of whatever choices he makes it doesn't matter, this man has already made his decision about Sean's guilt based on what he's heard and, more importantly, Sean's race. In the U.S. of today you can make all the right decisions and still find yourself victimized because you're the wrong skin color. Sean can steal nothing and try his best to avoid confrontation but he still gets hosed over, and it's something that reaffirms his decision not to face the police back in Seattle because he knows it will likely shake out much the same there. Maybe that's giving a choice that's not a choice too much credit, but that's the feel I got from what they were trying to say in this episode.
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Oct 3, 2018 14:02
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Another thing this game is lacking so far is some kind of mystery. The first game revolved around Max and Chloe's investigation into Rachel's disappearance and BtS had Sera but so far the only big question mark in LiS 2 is Daniel's powers (and I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up going about as unexplained as Max's were in the original) and possibly what happened to their mom as well. It's possible that the circumstances behind the death of Chris' mom might get explored a little further (depending on how big a role he actually winds up playing in the story) but that doesn't really have anything to do with the Diaz brothers at this point. But then again we still have 4 whole episodes left, I imagine some kind of wrench is going to get tossed into the works eventually Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 20:45
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Karpaw posted:The point is that stealing from the store is specifically brought up in the scene, potentially leading players who did it to believe that it's a causal factor behind being captured which it isn't, hence the illusion of choice not holding up. Viridiant posted:My assumption with the discuss/attack/flee choice is that they were trying to get the player to feel the frustration Sean would be feeling at the time, how in spite of whatever choices he makes it doesn't matter, this man has already made his decision about Sean's guilt based on what he's heard and, more importantly, Sean's race. In the U.S. of today you can make all the right decisions and still find yourself victimized because you're the wrong skin color. Sean can steal nothing and try his best to avoid confrontation but he still gets hosed over, and it's something that reaffirms his decision not to face the police back in Seattle because he knows it will likely shake out much the same there.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:10
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Larryb posted:Another thing this game is lacking so far is some kind of mystery. The first game revolved around Max and Chloe's investigation into Rachel's disappearance and BtS had Sera but so far the only big question mark in LiS 2 is Daniel's powers (and I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up going about as unexplained as Max's were in the original) and possibly what happened to their mom as well. I'd rather the game focus on family and racial issues than another mystery, tbh.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:21
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I don’t think there necessarily has to be a core mystery to this season. In LiS 1 this existed as a framing device because Dontnod was borrowing heavily from Twin Peaks, LiS 2 seems to be pulling from a different set of influences.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:25
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