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The Kimoa Kid posted:That's kind of my point? It's a three hour show that's been on every week for decades, and suggesting it's insanely bad now ignores that fact that 1. there's pretty much something entertaining in each episode, and 2. virtually every episode in the history of Raw has had some dumb poo poo in it, because how do you avoid that when you're making so many shows? I can't recall ever once in my life watching a WWE weekly program from start to finish and thinking "every single second of that owned and was awesome." I mean, if you place such little value on your time that you're happy to spend 3 hours a week to see one entertaining thing that's your business but don't pretend that qualifies as a good show. At least it was only 2 hours you were spending on WWF in the Russo days though. Personally I'd rather if Raw was back to being 1 hour a week because I think that's the ideal amount of time for a weekly wrestling show but I get why that won't ever happen, because the money to produce 5 hours a week (plus the other stuff) is far too good not to do it. That's fine but I don't think it gives them a free pass for producing the same amount of good stuff as they would have if it was a third the length. In fact it just heightens how poor the booking is, when they have all this time and still struggle to find time to use good, talented performers in a compelling way. As far as match quality goes the WWE has never been better than it is now. But without a basic level of compelling storytelling I find it hard to get worked up for it, especially when there's not exactly a deficit of high quality wrestling available with a couple of clicks these days. People hate-watching it are pretty bewildering to me but again, that's their business. And it can be quite difficult to actually break off watching a terrible TV show you've invested a lot of time in. God knows I watched Lost all the way through even after it got exceedingly stupid.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:00
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gently caress Yoshiko.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:03
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forkboy84 posted:I mean, if you place such little value on your time that you're happy to spend 3 hours a week to see one entertaining thing that's your business but don't pretend that qualifies as a good show. I swear to motherfucking god, what is IT with every single person in this thread responding to me with poo poo I did. not. say?
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Sep 25, 2018 15:05
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The Kimoa Kid posted:God drat. Rough life. goddamn you are a piece of poo poo
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Sep 25, 2018 15:08
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forkboy84 posted:I mean, if you place such little value on your time that you're happy to spend 3 hours a week to see one entertaining thing that's your business but don't pretend that qualifies as a good show. At least it was only 2 hours you were spending on WWF in the Russo days though. The main problem is 3 hour Raws are stuffed with so many recaps, ads, corporate shilling and fluff promos that it just draaaaaags. They'll do an Up Next graphic for the next segment but it doesn't happen for another 10 minutes. It really sucks out any fun there is to be had.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:09
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TV Zombie posted:gently caress Yoshiko. That remains the most horrifying thing I've witnessed in wrestling, and even after all this time and all the news, I still don't really know why she even did that, which makes it worse
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Sep 25, 2018 15:10
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The Kimoa Kid posted:I swear to motherfucking god, what is IT with every single person in this thread responding to me with poo poo I did. not. say? So what did you mean by "there's pretty much something entertaining in each episode"? "Pretty much" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of even "there's something entertaining in each episode". Perhaps if people continually misunderstand what you are trying to say you aren't saying it very clearly? Like, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here & if it's just going to be another multi-page fight I'll just say fine & end it here.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:12
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forkboy84 posted:So what did you mean by "there's pretty much something entertaining in each episode"? "Pretty much" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of even "there's something entertaining in each episode". It's pretty obvious that these threads are openly toxic to differing opinions and would rather argue for sport than discuss them on their merits. I'm not trying to turn anything into a multi-page fight and never have, and that poo poo only happens because every time I attempt to make a simple point someone comes along with "so what you're saying is..." and completely misrepresents my point to make it easier for them to argue against. It's dumb as poo poo. Yesterday's episode of Raw was not great, nor was it particularly bad. There was enough entertaining poo poo to make it worth watching IMO. Do a quick search and you'll find that most sites who regularly review shows gave it a B or a B+. It was fine. As always, this thread hated it 7-8 times more than everyone else, and the fact that this negativity is unique to this place should say something. Personally I don't understand how anyone who turned Raw off in the opening minutes last night could ever watch any pro wrestling ever, because it was the most middle of the road poo poo I've ever seen in my life. My point is that Raw has been this way since always, more or less, and that is the nature of producing weekly live TV. I just can't comprehend what anyone saw last night that made them think it was worse than usual, or somehow so bad that they bailed immediately.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:18
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The Kimoa Kid posted:I'd like to see this breakdown me looking at your little b0dy
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Sep 25, 2018 15:34
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The Kimoa Kid posted:It's pretty obvious that these threads are openly toxic to differing opinions and would rather argue for sport than discuss them on their merits. I'm not trying to turn anything into a multi-page fight and never have, and that poo poo only happens because every time I attempt to make a simple point someone comes along with "so what you're saying is..." and completely misrepresents my point to make it easier for them to argue against. It's dumb as poo poo. I didn't see it, but I will also say that on Googling Raw Review the first result is 411 Mania who rated it a 5.1 and Bleacher Report said "However, it was not enough to save a show that was often boring and uneventful, two words not typically associated with the flagship show over its quarter-century existence." But I'll also readily admit I've no idea what other sites review Raw so I won't even argue here because I don't think it really matters. It's highly unlikely that a Raw in 2018 is going to be the worst Raw ever when there was once a Raw that ran a tribute to a murderer who they had already suspected strongly was a murderer. I haven't paid close enough attention apparently but I didn't really see people calling it the absolute worst Raw ever. Though if they did I'd imagine it was just standard hyperbole you get on the internet rather than a literal declaration of it being the actual worst show in 25 years. The way I read it, it's just a lot of simmering frustration at a television show that a lot of their time (& probably money too) has been invested in following and that is distinctively mediocre a lot of the time. And sure, a lot of it might be as simple as "guy I like isn't pushed enough" but I do think there's more to complaints than just "why isn't Daniel Bryan on a Goldberg-esque undefeated streak?". I sympathise with that because I've been there before with WWE before eventually managing to just stop watching. And even then I still read about it most weeks, if just to pass the time at work.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:50
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Raw is saved by having an all-time great talent doing something crazy and memorable, such as steve austin’s beer truck or roman reigns’ quite good six man tag match
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Sep 25, 2018 15:54
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The founder of Stardom left the company shortly after the Yoshiko/Act stuff and started a new Joshi company where they quickly hired Yoshiko after she had been blackballed from every other joshi company
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Sep 25, 2018 16:02
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Imagine defending wwe at this point. Like if you like it that's your thing do whatever you want. But like think about openly defending wwe.
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Sep 25, 2018 16:07
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Foochs hasn't even been defending them much lately and that's how you know things are rough Had Brie KO'd Ruby with that forearm that would have been a long backward dead-weight fall to the outside for her which would have been disastrous too
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Sep 25, 2018 16:11
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Brie Mode is way too strong to safely unleash in a worked match, they should have banned it years ago
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Sep 25, 2018 16:14
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Defending WWE in the WWE thread isn't out of line. Reading this thread as someone who actually likes most of what WWE puts out, the negativity can be a bit overwhelming. I understand how it can compel someone to speak up in opposition. I often wonder if reading this thread actually impacts my enjoyment of the product. -- Brie Bella sucks and is a menace. I actually really like Nikki, and have been a fan of her for a while. When her and Brie split and she really adopted her own style (even if it was heavily influenced by Cena) to be more of a power wrestler, I feel like she's really developed as a performer since then. It's a bummer to see her back now mostly as just 1/2 of the Bella Twins, rather than as a singles competitor, I think she has a place in the title scene.
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Sep 25, 2018 16:22
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Mr. Carlisle posted:Foochs hasn't even been defending them much lately and that's how you know things are rough At least it seems like Ruby got a reciept with the titty kick right after
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Sep 25, 2018 16:24
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we're rapidly approaching the day when a full debate is both parties just saying "imagine thinking what you think. like lmao." until one commits mass murder later due to their pent up rage, and then that guy is the one who won I guess
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Sep 25, 2018 16:25
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Cavauro posted:we're rapidly approaching the day when a full debate is both parties just saying "imagine thinking what you think. like lmao." until one commits mass murder later due to their pent up rage, and then that guy is the one who won I guess Imagine thinking this. like lmao
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Sep 25, 2018 16:29
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Sep 25, 2018 16:33
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my friend kimoa is a good lad who means well
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Sep 25, 2018 16:33
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love steph doing the "pornstar reacts to a big cock" face in front of her husband for her dad's biceps.
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Sep 25, 2018 16:37
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how is it that they can crash train snooki to have a passable match at WM in just a few weeks, and brie is still so bad at this
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Sep 25, 2018 16:38
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vince definitely knocked one out to this pic
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Sep 25, 2018 16:40
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you know I do think we need to sit down and consider how bad you have to suck to miss worked kicks by over a foot
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Sep 25, 2018 16:48
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This wasn't loading on my phone but now that I can see it, good stuff.
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Sep 25, 2018 16:52
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Some people just aren't and probably never will be that athletic regardless of how they look Look at Bobby Lashley and his non functional vanity muscles and how he struggles to pick even the lightest people up while commentary gushes over THE RAW POWER OF BOBBY LASHLEY
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Sep 25, 2018 16:58
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New Japan is back so I can't even pretend to care about Raw and mostly just read the summary because I wanted to read about the tag match and Brie KTFOing someone, but I just wanna stress what someone said earlier that if any thought along the lines of "Raw is whatever but it's not as bad as Brock never showing up" enters your brain, you've been completely worked. They made terrible TV on purpose for over a year so that people would go "Well yeah they're sacrificing the entire roster to jerk off Roman but at least it's not as bad as Brock!", don't excuse their present mediocrity because it's better than when they were garbage on purpose. Also Ruby Riot's expression of utter contempt for Brie is awesome. Mr. Carlisle posted:Some people just aren't and probably never will be that athletic regardless of how they look This is all I can think of with Bobby Lashley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyEdIXwlaI MJeff fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 17:01
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Saint Freak posted:This wasn't loading on my phone but now that I can see it, good stuff. Not surprised a former Chikara talent knows how to handle clumsy botchy opponents
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Sep 25, 2018 17:05
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VJeff posted:They made terrible TV on purpose for over a year so that people would go "Well yeah they're sacrificing the entire roster to jerk off Roman but at least it's not as bad as Brock!", don't excuse their present mediocrity because it's better than when they were garbage on purpose. It's scary that you think this of the company that throws away scripts hours before air because Vince had an idea. Yet somehow they managed a years-long effort of intentionally producing bad TV so that the follow up would look better by comparison. Pick one, dude. They are not both an incompetent company that can't script two consecutive hours consistently AND planning out Raw beat by beat years in advance.
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Sep 25, 2018 17:22
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For me its not even that wwe is bad, they're mostly just mediocre. The stories are fine I guess. The shield is fun. They have some of the best talent in the world but lock them into ground hog day feuds. Its just a lot of whatever and they want me to watch 5+ houra a week. I can use that same time to watch one of the various indie streams where stuff might not be as polished but it feels more real and people are obviously having fun in a way you don't see that much on WWE tv. I can use it to watch njpw, a promotion telling some great stories with some amazing wrestling. They used pro-wrestling to tell one of the better gay love stories thats been on tv. WWE just isn't keeping up with the quality of wrestling that exists and its taken an always mediocre product and turned it "bad".
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Sep 25, 2018 17:30
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The Kimoa Kid posted:It's scary that you think this of the company that throws away scripts hours before air because Vince had an idea. Yet somehow they managed a years-long effort of intentionally producing bad TV so that the follow up would look better by comparison. Pick one, dude. They are not both an incompetent company that can't script two consecutive hours consistently AND planning out Raw beat by beat years in advance. Yeah, actually, that's pretty much exactly what they are.
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Sep 25, 2018 17:41
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The irony here is that a common criticism of WWE is that they're not consistent (which is very true), yet so many of your criticisms are based on working backward from how you want to feel (usually "I hate this!") to justify why you feel that way, ultimately leading to poo poo like the above, where you are so intent on being angry that you actually think you can hold two mutually exclusive positions. Also, it's a huge bummer that I have to explain this to you, but the goal of Brock's actions was to make you hate Brock, not the show. You can hate characters in fiction without hating the whole of the work. This is not new. Gumball Gumption posted:For me its not even that wwe is bad, they're mostly just mediocre. The stories are fine I guess. The shield is fun. They have some of the best talent in the world but lock them into ground hog day feuds. Its just a lot of whatever and they want me to watch 5+ houra a week. I can use that same time to watch one of the various indie streams where stuff might not be as polished but it feels more real and people are obviously having fun in a way you don't see that much on WWE tv. I can use it to watch njpw, a promotion telling some great stories with some amazing wrestling. They used pro-wrestling to tell one of the better gay love stories thats been on tv. WWE just isn't keeping up with the quality of wrestling that exists and its taken an always mediocre product and turned it "bad". This is a great post though and largely encompasses everyone itt, i.e. "this is mediocre but I'm fine with it" vs "this is mediocre but I'd rather watch something better." The only real disconnect is that the latter group can't stop clutching their pearls at the former. wicka fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 17:45
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boar guy posted:how is it that they can crash train snooki to have a passable match at WM in just a few weeks, and brie is still so bad at this Which WM is this? Brie did just come back from having a baby and her first matches were against Maryse and then this? That's not enough time to work out the ring rust.
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Sep 25, 2018 17:48
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The Kimoa Kid posted:The irony here is that a common criticism of WWE is that they're not consistent (which is very true), yet so many of your criticisms are based on working backward from how you want to feel (usually "I hate this!") to justify why you feel that way, ultimately leading to poo poo like the above, where you are so intent on being angry that you actually think you can hold two mutually exclusive positions. They intentionally did Brock's reign in a way that would make you resent it. They intentionally kept him off TV for months at a time, intentionally advertised him and then had him not show up, they intentionally booked his matches to have flat, unsatisfying finishes. When you're knowingly and purposely bait-and-switching your audience, that's not trying to get a character over as a heel, that's WWE intentionally lying to their audience and you can't excuse it as "well the character is a bad guy, you're not supposed to like him" - it's intentionally bad TV. They did this for over a year. It was all planned as a way to get Roman over. The rest of the show is just whatever bullshit and Vince can and will change it on a week to week basis but when it comes to his golden boy, whether that's Cena in the past or Roman now, he'll meticulously plan out his bullshit over a long term. And sometimes he'll even change poo poo at a moment's notice within his long term plans - Roman was supposed to beat Brock at WM34. Then he didn't. So they kept the intentionally bad Brock stuff going for another few months and did it at SummerSlam so Vince could do his MitB con job, I imagine.
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Sep 25, 2018 17:58
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TV Zombie posted:Which WM is this? 27. and brie has always been a sloppy, dangerous worker with a nice butt and a twin and now a tv show.
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Sep 25, 2018 18:00
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wasn't it revealed like, the day after (or possibly immediately after) mania 2017 that the main event for mania 2018 would be roman v brock?
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Sep 25, 2018 18:01
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Anyways, for the Taskmaster combat challenges don't get confused by the fact that you get points for combos and health and whatever. Even if you get like a hundred combo it will only ever be 1% of the total score. Literally all that matters is speed and not dying (obviously), so just spam web trip mine and web bomb and impact web and finishers.
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Sep 25, 2018 18:03
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Saint Freak posted:Anyways, for the Taskmaster combat challenges don't get confused by the fact that you get points for combos and health and whatever. Even if you get like a hundred combo it will only ever be 1% of the total score. Literally all that matters is speed and not dying (obviously), so just spam web trip mine and web bomb and impact web and finishers. Also it seems to only care what your combat count is at the end of the encounter, not what your highest during was anyway.
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Sep 25, 2018 18:06
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DLC Inc posted:it owns that the universal champion is just constantly in 3-man tag matches now He just defended it last week.
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Sep 25, 2018 18:07
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