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This game is certainly, something. Personally I like it and think it's worth at least discussion about what it does right and what it does wrong and how those mix, because I think it does do lots right and has an at least interesting theme and plot going on. I also think it honestly added good things to the Dangan Ronpa property as a whole, it's just got some really shockingly tone deaf moments later that make it a very hard game to convince people on. So count me in on this ride to hope, or despair, who knows.
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Sep 25, 2018 16:49
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One of the ones who reform is also a literally crafted super genius with every talent possible made by the school performing brain surgery on an even more average joe than the first main character.
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Sep 26, 2018 01:16
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SoundwaveAU posted:Lady, look out the loving window! Actually, this is after that event.
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Sep 29, 2018 13:27
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Might as well give the shorthand of the other reformed henchmen. A pink haired shark toothed mechanic who is kind of a creep, an actual European princess said mechanic creeps on who loves old Japanese drama/media, the son of the biggest Yakuza family boss in Japan, and a naturally gifted in more ways than one female gymnast who only cares about eating and fighting. The only other important characters from that game are the gamer girl who is actually an AI and a guy with luck so bullshit it’s literally miraculously good and bad at all times.
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Sep 30, 2018 06:44
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1234567890num posted:Fixed. I'd already elaborated on the some guy, who is also an artificially created super genius meant to be the "Ultimate Hope" but mostly just became the "Ultimate Talent" and a whole bunch of boredom. Thankfully, he was fixed.
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Sep 30, 2018 13:49
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Worth noting that Mondo beating Chihiro to death was an accidental murder. Or, at least, the most accidental of the bunch. That case also has Byakuya's biggest rear end in a top hat moment that he never really gets comeuppance for, in hindsight. Mondo’s killing is the only one that involves no pre-planning, he merely has anger issues that boil over at the worst time possible in the worst way possible. It’s worth remembering he’s already knocked Makoto out with a punch in a rage previously. So Chihiro talking about getting strong enough to reveal their secret without fear causes him to snap over his longheld fear of people discovering his older brother died saving him from his own stupid mistake. Then, one blow to the head with a dumbbell and it’s all over, amp do doesn’t even remember hitting Chihiro afaik. I think like, the one thing missing from The McD’s overview is the side stuff, like IF revealing that Mukuro could have been convinced by Makoto to side against Junko under certain circumstances, partially because he’s nice to her for the sake of being nice which is novel for the Ultimate Soldier, also Junko is an abusive bitch to her and she thinks that’s okay until Makoto interacts with her in certain ways This sort of comes up in game when Mukuro disguised as Junko offers to set Makoto up on a date with her sister, which would be herself outside the disguise, if you go through her free time events. Also the air pollution might not be real and people were trying to free the students from the school and failing, presumably killed by either Monokumas like in this game or Junko’s followers.
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Oct 1, 2018 00:58
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TheMcD posted:Yeah, I never really got on with those nicknames. But hell, what the gently caress do I know. I still call Genocide Jack "Genocider Syo" because I got used to that name from the translation patch for the original PSP version of DR1. I don't recall there actually being much side material specifically for DR2, there's a lot of untranslated stuff but it tends to be related to other characters. DRIF is notable for how much of a character it makes Mukuro, and the whole shipping thing. For what it's worth both Kyoko and Byakuya have novels without official translations that expand on their personalities and lives, there's also Danganronpa Gaiden: Killer Killer, which has probably the most ridiculous bit of bullshit in the entire setting. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 09:21
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In regards to the ending of the second game being a convenient miracle I’ve always assumed that Izuru’s plan was always roughly what happened and not what Junko wanted. Notably Izuru in the flashback outright says he plans to use “her” (Junko) as she used him. Which brings me to the conclusion that Izuru did more than just upload the Junko AI but he also tampered in other ways so that their eventual victory works. It helps that both Nagito and Izuru have Luck as part of their talent, so of course the best possible outcome for them is the one that happens. Basically Izuru’s problem is the world is boring and empty feeling as the Ultimate Talented Individual, and he has to know a little about how he came to be, so it isn’t odd for him to plan to cure himself by reverting to Hajime’s personality. Along the way why not cure the other Uptimate Despairs too. It’s worth noting that Hajime ends up effectively fusing with Izuru, so they’re both in his head at the end of the game, Chiaki is also in there for that matter. Hobgoblin2099 posted:Oh, also, is the Alter Ego in DR2 the same one from the first game? There are two in DR2, Junko’s Alter Ego which is new, and the one from the first game who you meet during the final investigation and is meant to be Chiaki’s “brother”. As another thing there’s actually 2 terminally ill characters in DR2, Nekomaru Nidai has a heart disease/problem that will supposedly kill him by age 21, it hasn’t presumably because of either Mikan or another medically inclined ultimate curing it, Nagito should also have died of his illness too as they’re all 22 at this point and his was fatal within 2 years or something. Lastly DR2 contains the grossest thing so far, which is the revelation that after Junko's death the Remnants of Despair salavaged her body and replaced parts of themselves with parts of her. Notably Nagito has her hand and forearm, Fuyuhiko likely has her eye, and Mikan being Mikan either performed necrophilia or replaced her uterus and ovaries with Junko’s. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 00:51
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Ratoslov posted:Jesus Christ Kazuichi. Kazuichi being a creep is constant and consistent, although in this particular situation it was actually appreciated by Akane. He also at one point remarks that he wants to literally take a woman apart like a machine. Almost all of the DR2 cast are presented in a way that you can absolutely believe them being broken into followers of Junko and her batshit despair. The ones who aren't are Nagito, who is still fighting for hope by helping Junko create the greatest despair mankind has ever known, Hajime, who is of course Izuru and a broken individual already by the point he meets Junko, and Chiaki, an AI created by the Future Foundation. I would argue that outside of Toko/Syo the cast of DR2 are broken people in ways that the cast of DR1 just weren't to begin with hence why even though DR1 is Junko's class mates, she converted the class a year above instead.
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Oct 2, 2018 08:06
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kvx687 posted:It probably didn't actually happen, it was the fake Naegi who mentioned that whole deal and he was just a puppet created by EnoshimAI to try and push the survivors into despair. It did for at least Fuyuhiko and Nagito, we’ve seen the latter with Junko’s arm after all in game even and other media we’ve seen the former missing his eye after DR2 is over. I’ve always assumed she just wasn’t that flattened/crushed, she took almost no damage from the rest of the Ultimate Punishment so it’s plausible the crushing wasn’t quite as crushing as it appears. There’s also the possibility that some of the body parts came from Mukuro.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:35
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Mukuro was repeatedly stabbed with spears and then blown up, so I'm not sure her body is in much better condition. Nobody ever accused the Remnants of Despair of being intelligent about how they worshipped Junko. Nagito notes his new arm doesn’t even work and is just happy it isn’t rotting. I guess I just don’t see why this is the step too far, given Mondo apparently liquified during his execution and was made into butter, or Taka managing to fusion dance with Mondo’s spirit and become super Saiyan. Or even the fact that brain surgery turned a normal person into a super genius with every talent possible including luck. The Ultimate Nurse salvaging body parts for the Remnants of Despair from Junko and Mukuro is honestly pretty tame, it’s not like the organs had to work they just had to be attachable. In one of the side stories the main character of that story decapitates his love interest to remove an explosive collar without killing her. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 01:40
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I think people make too much of a big thing about Junko’s lying, given it feels she tells a lot more truths than lies, what she’s actually good at is twisting truths to the worst possible interpretation of omitting/changing them slightly to her own ends. When she outright lies is kind of rare in my opinion, and is usually for the purpose of perpetuating the illusion of a killing game instead of actually being a lie for the sake of Despair. I think this is also part of what in universe makes her effective, she isn’t telling the whole truth but she also isn’t telling total lies, so she bends truth until it’s a lie and wraps people in her bullshit until they give in to her Despair. Like, the number of times she’s just flat out lied instead of merely omitted or shifted the truth is quite small I feel, which is why I tend to accept things she says that aren’t contradicted as being somewhat truthful. In DR2 specifically I think there’s also a level of her not actually being aware that Izuru’s plan is different from hers. On to this game, god the music really is fantastic and personally I think this is the best Danganronpa soundtrack, because I love lounge jazz. I also appreciate that even without the killing game we get “executions”. I gotta question how the future foundation does anything at all with grunts this bad at fighting monokumas, which I’m pretty sure should be basic training. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 21:34
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FPzero posted:If I remember right, she got famous for writing sailor romance novels and kickstarted a trashy teen romance trend. That was the one she wrote two years ago (relative to starting at Hope's Peak, which puts it like, 6 years ago now?) and became a world famous hit that made sailors/fishermen more popular with women worldwide. She was a writer well before that though and it's only her most famous work. She became famous all over Japan for a novel written at 10 years old, and then world famous as she kept writing great romance novels is the idea basically.
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Oct 18, 2018 07:09
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I wish I enjoyed anything as much as Komaru enjoys bullying children. She seems so incredibly hyped and ready to rumble in her little hand up come and get some gesture, which she's doing exclusive towards children in weird robot heads. I suspect Komaru is slightly less average than Makoto was.
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Oct 21, 2018 17:20
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One actually neat thing is that you can use Dance on every enemy in the game just about, and it does slightly different things per Monokuma and does really different dances for the boss robots.
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Nov 5, 2018 23:48
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TheMcD posted:Oh, gently caress. You can actually use Dance on the bosses? I just straight assumed they'd be immune to it because, I mean, it's like a status effect on a boss, those are always useless, right? Yes, it's actually really useful if you're good at little aim adjustments because it keeps them still for quite a while. I've got a polsy link of just the first fight and they make it dance if you really want to see it. Also, one of the best parts of boss fights is watching Toko just get dunked on every time something goes near her.
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Nov 6, 2018 03:17
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grandalt posted:So, who exactly built an AI and managed to put in a Monokuma? Not an easy thing, it took either the ultimate programmer or ultimate talent to make an AI last time. We don’t know yet but Chiaki and Monomi were not made by Izuru, they were made based on the already existing Alter Ego. So if you can get hold of some of Chihiro’s work, which was mostly AI stuff with Alter Ego as the greatest creation, you can probably make a pretty okay AI given an understanding of programming.
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Nov 22, 2018 12:05
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Chihiro was working on Alter Ego the entire time they were at school, and either finished or got close to finishing it before DR1. But Chihiro’s actual claim to fame was always the work they did on AI, Alter Ego is just the best one they made. The Laptop wasn’t meant to work as you may recall, so Chihiro fixed it and then finished/compiled Alter Ego, who survived given how Makoto is saved when his execution happens. Then the Alter Ego from DR1 is taken to the Island and put in charge of the Neo-World Program, alongside Chiaki and Monomi who are made from the same base code. Alter Ego’s are learning AI that can be implemented with baseline personalities and then grow like children, hence Chiaki’s free time being a lot of her having a bizarre and eclectic mix of knowledge. I don’t think Chihiro ever worked on the Neo-World Program directly, as it was built/finished by the Future Foundation after Chihiro’s death. But Chihiro’s Alter Ego was required for it to function at all and a lot of the code likely was taken from Chihiro’s work. Part of the way Chihiro’s Alter Ego, and presumably Junko’s Alter Ego, worked is that it would study the person it was copying to construct the personality template. So it’s entirely possible both were being made before DR1 and then got finished during DR1. This is also why they’re both more “complete” people compared to Monomi and Chiaki who were just AI with no personality template from a living person.
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Nov 22, 2018 23:11
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Carbon dioxide posted:Stop posting. One of those people is the OP and they're discussing a different LP in spoiler tags which have nothing to do with this game. Admittedly it's still kind of annoying but your reaction is very unnecessary.
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Dec 6, 2018 08:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:That's a... very unsettling story about the sex offender. There is no story about a sex offender in this particular update.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:11
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FoolyCharged posted:A teacher breaking into a little girl's home and watching her sleep is close enough, especially when the game says his motivations were probably lustful. Oh damnit I actually somehow missed that discussion, apologies.
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Dec 11, 2018 07:58
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Personally I actually think this game, like most Dangan Ronpa games, does have something meaningful and interesting it's at least trying to say. It's just also the game that fumbles it's message the hardest, and everything about this upcoming chapter is an example of them completely failing to handle the subject matter with tact or grace at all. The kids becoming monsters due to abuse and letting that lead to their current actions isn't inherently terrible as a premise for what the game is trying to say, it's just handled loving terribly. So yeah, my stance is I can appreciate the message that the game wants to say, but recognise why that message is failing to be effectively conveyed or accepted by the majority of players.
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Dec 17, 2018 13:39
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's possible they gave him lovely stats cause they don't like him. Also possible he gave himself lovely stats because he doesn’t like himself.
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Dec 18, 2018 01:34
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It’s also, in part that this series is trying to be a somewhat mature and intellectual discussion of its themes. It is asking the player to actually understand a message and this sequence completely shoots any potential understanding or maturity in the head because it’s incredibly tone deaf and awful compared to the way the rest of the kids traumas being is handled. That’s the problem, the sexual abuse of a child and a teenager has been used in a way that is at odds with what the message of the game, that abuse is a vicious cycle that destroys lives, by making an attempt to eat the awful fanservice cake. Danganronpa has this problem in general, where whatever pathos or discussion the game is trying to have is sometimes undermined by the nature of the tropes or fanservice invoked. It’s just this is the most extreme version of something people already dislike in the series, in a game that has changed the genre anyway and isn’t necessarily that greatly designed gameplay wise in the first place. It may not be as bad as it could have been, but it is a very easy thing to point at and say this is a problem, this weakens the narrative and themes for cheap fanservice in ways that the game is trying to say is wrong whilst encouraging the player to participate. I think the game even suggests the groping minigame might be difficult to play one-handed somewhere and I refuse to look to see if that’s true. Personally, everything to do with Kotoko and the treatment of her particular abuse is the worst part of this game hands down, and without it this game would probably just be considered a mediocre spin-off. With it this game is by far the worst danganronpa game in part because it’s actually gone further than any of the others with this weird fanservice backhanded bullshit. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 18:42
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The worst part is if they’d handled Kotoko the way they handled Jotaro and Masaru the game would probably not have gotten the level of vitriol it got. If her chapter just made suggestions towards the nature of her abuse as a way to highlight her current hyper aggressive personality traits then it wouldn’t have been nearly as bad. Like all they had to do was not add a terrible minigame and direct references to what she’s experienced beyond the word Gentle being super upsetting to her and this chapter would have been improved immensely.
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Dec 21, 2018 14:13
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The DR2 crew probably did brainwashing on other people as well, whether through music or dance or Sonia's personality they certainly guided others into sharing in despair.
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Dec 28, 2018 02:47
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Dangan Ronpa is almost always trying to be some sort of social commentary, whether it is effective or tasteful is a different discussion. Honestly I like the theory of Junko and her actions in regards to forming a cult of personality, the problem is the series undermines that theory with the reality of Junko constantly. That is she’s kind of insane all the time. Arguably the Warriors of Hope backstory about how she found them and gave them purpose is the best example of what she should/could have been as a mastermind villain who ended the world. Finding the disenfranchised and the broken and twisting them to her ideals until she has enough followers to start a global crisis. Add in that several of those followers from DR2 are dangerous powerful individuals in their own right and the despair apocalypse becomes a little more believable, until Junko talks for five seconds and her batshit rapidly shifting personality ruins any potential for her to look reasonable as a cult leader.
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Dec 31, 2018 23:09
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I'd like to believe that Junko can shut up with the zaniness for five seconds when she's not going "Neener neener, I made your classmates kill each other!" to people in her death games, allowing her to actually be something resembling an effective cult leader. Unfortunately literally everything we see of her proves otherwise. But yeah I think in theory this is a plausible situation and that Mukuro's initial acting is pretty close to the personality Junko used to hide her despair nonsense whilst at school or in public. TheMcD posted:The moral of Danganronpa is "for profit colleges are the devil and will destroy the world" and nobody will convince me otherwise. grandalt posted:I thought it was secret programs to create superhumans/solider will end up bringing an evil superhuman to power and then its time for everyone to suffer. Both of these also seem pretty accurate to be honest.
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Jan 1, 2019 11:52
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Maybe Jotaro did it, he was artistic after all.
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Jan 2, 2019 06:08
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So yeah, this is where Haiji loses any and all sympathy from everyone, there is maybe a silver lining in that he’s confirmed to not actually partake in his perversion and is only so candid because of the apocalypse. But yeah it’s not much of a silver lining and Haiji being an awful person is well, a thing we are now having to deal with. What makes it extra lovely is the little motorcycle scene is actually great, and is one of the best little moments in the game.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:20
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MonsterEnvy posted:Apparently Komaru is in his strike zone. His preference is for child like girls that are just at the age of consent. But he does not engage in his fetish cause he knows it's creepy. Still not great and very creepy. Yeah as I said he doesn't practice his perversion, this does not make it any better that he has it as a character trait or that it comes up literally the chapter after the child sexual abuse chapter. I presume before the apocalypse he just didn't tell people and after he's just stopped giving a poo poo.
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Jan 3, 2019 06:02
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freshlybaked posted:Oh, I was partially still under the impression that Monaca was going to perform necromancy. Given everything else in Danganronpa I would not be surprised.
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Jan 4, 2019 03:33
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mycelia posted:They've all got weird irises. Masaru has flames, Jataro has scalpels (only really visible in the artbook), Kotoko has speech bubbles and Nagisa has diamonds. As for why ... no idea. Hajime's are weird too, but he's the only other one in the series that comes to mind. Junko manipulated them more directly maybe so anime logic is they have special eyes? Nagito and Junko both have swirly eyes at times from memory.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:17
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Alternatively like Nagito his fatal disease was less fatal than predicted. Maybe Mikan healed then both on Junko’s orders.
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Jan 19, 2019 04:28
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Considering all the other lies and acting Kotoko was bouncing between in that conversation I doubt she doesn’t hate adults, she just also hates Monaca too now.
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Jan 21, 2019 23:43
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So hey, I believe that this is the only boss where using dance doesn’t let you do more damage by keeping the weak point exposed longer. You can still make Kurokuma dance of course but it doesn’t really do much to keep him out of the robot.
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Jan 27, 2019 01:04
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In case the implication was missed nobody in Future Foundation outside the survivors from the first game like or trust Toko, which is why she doesn’t have the uniform and isn’t really a full member. Her word means less than nothing and Byakuya has been locked up the entire time so he has very little proof of anything. Also, Future Foundation are fanatically anti-Despair, the second game makes this abundantly clear in that they have no intention of even trying to spare or cure the actual Remnants of Despair and Makoto has to actively disobey and betray the Future Foundation as a whole because their hope for the future is kill anyone who is going to threaten their shining future. Basically Future Foundation are so against the possibility of despair that they would not care to listen, the second they see dead kids and celebrating adults they’ll attack. The production of Monukuma is in of itself bad enough given the Future Foundation do use scorched earth policies when fighting Despair. Also if you're starting to think Despair and Hope look like stupid buzzwords with no meaning that's intentional, Dangan Ronpa sort of pivots into the meaningless of these big ideas that have no actual bearing on people's lives or happiness if they're ignored. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 02:38
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Blue Labrador posted:Yeah dude she had some chilling rear end deliveries in that last cutscene. I feel like the plot is absolutely falling apart but the VAs are doing magnificently. It’s the crux of the Dangan Ronpa 2 finale, where Hajime Hinata declares that they will fight for neither Hope nor Despair but to claim their own future, built by their own hands and those of their friends. Which considering the damage the Remnants of Despair caused in the name of Junko’s despair and the fact that they were going to be killed in the name of the Future Foundations shining hopeful future makes them deciding on neither pretty reasonable.
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Jan 28, 2019 08:23
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Qrr posted:Wanting to kill the remnants of despair didn't exactly require a lot of fanaticism. We don't get to see a lot of what they'd done directly but they'd personally killed a lot of people and worked with Junko to kill, uh, well, billions. You're not wrong, but the Future Foundation don't even attempt to think of alternatives and put out the order to kill on sight, without even knowing who the remnants actually were. That's a big thing, the Future Foundation don't know that Class 76 are the Remnants of Despair, and in fact thought they were people worth saving until they discovered the truth. So any potential Remnant has a kill on sight order without necessarily requiring actual evidence at the time, then when they learnt of Class 76 it was too late because Makoto had taken them to Jabberwock for his plan. Also it's more like 3 years I think, and conceptually it's they'll be like they were before they were despair which is actually a much bigger deal than just 2 years ago, on the average. The other bit is that they'll kill anyone, not just Remnants of Despair, who threaten the shining future filled with hope the Future Foundation believes in. They're not evil but they're not good. This is also why the potential for the people of Towa City to look like Remnants of Despair is Monaca's plan, because she presumably knows Future Foundation have a no tolerance policy for potential Remnants of Despair.
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Jan 29, 2019 06:40
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Shirokuma and Kurokuma at least both seem close to one of Junko’s rapidly shifting personalities from the ends of the two main games. Speaking of, I personally like that this game tried to be different in a meaningful way with a unique message. It didn’t necessarily land 100% if the time but I appreciate the attempt. I also think this is an intentional non-ending. The Warriors of Hope no longer believe in Junko/Monaca but remain free in the city, Monaca is becoming the successor but Nagito has to leave soon and she might not amount to anything, Toko and Komaru remain in the city to vaguely fight but have no real goal. This was quite literally a meaningless side game and Dangan Ronpa sometimes likes going into meta commentary on the games themselves so maybe that’s intended.
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Jan 31, 2019 07:44
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