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BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


Leonyth posted:

People were curious about the traditional differences, so I decided to give it a go at showing that off.

You can take a look here if you're interested.

Assuming I continue I'll be keeping each of these ending at about the same point in the corresponding main update.

I really hope Zenith still uses the table trap door only to forget to install a trap door in the floor as well in this.

Calreath's head just poking out of the table asking for some help while you fight.

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Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl

BisbyWorl posted:

I really hope Zenith still uses the table trap door only to forget to install a trap door in the floor as well in this.

Calreath's head just poking out of the table asking for some help while you fight.

"Haha! My master plan, the table trap door! With this, your arms are pinned to your sides, and cannot access your pokeballs!"

BlazeEmblem
Jun 8, 2013

Uh oh. Do I use Ariadne thread or Goho-M?

I now see that going with the dark storyline was the right choice.

Not because this is bad, but because parodies work much better when you are familiar with what it is parodying :allears:.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

definitely feels like a YGO-esque 4kidz dub there.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
Is it weird I’m finding it charming? Like it’s poking fun at itself in the non-edgy form the same way it’s poked fun at its edgy stuff.

Jade Rider
May 11, 2007

All the pages have been censored except for "heck," and she misread that one.


Kitfox88 posted:

Is it weird I’m finding it charming? Like it’s poking fun at itself in the non-edgy form the same way it’s poked fun at its edgy stuff.

Nah, I'm feeling the same.

Malah
May 18, 2015

Weird difference: Anastasia doesn't bullshit around with "oh, you'll find someone to save us!" and just forks over the scuba gear assuming we'll go kick Audrey's rear end.

I felt like this should have been the other way around?

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.


Is this real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, we've escaped from reality.



Hello everyone and welcome back. We've touched down in the Prion Site. It's kind of a drab place, and nowhere we want to especially hang out.



There's a way out over here to the west, so let's see what's over here.



Hmm...



On second thought, let's not go west. Going this way is for losers.



The actual way forward is south into a town. Be warned, we're about to be thrown straight into a boss fight... and it will not be fun times.



: A dream sequence? How cliched can you get? Are we really doing this? And it's basically the nightmare realm, too. Everything's black and red, it's so edgy.

So what you're saying is it's your kinda place, Miss-wears-black-and-red-and-is-the-games-biggest-edgelord?



A flock of Drifloon with a Drifblim in the lead makes me nervous.

: I can't believe it. Of course this would happen. The one time everything's going right for me. The one time I had Darkrai... and under my control too. Unbelievable.



: Somehow, you're behind the reason I'm in your stupid edgy mind dimension. I'm gonna tear you to pieces, then find my way out of here. Consider this payback! I'm going to love every minute of this!





This is the final battle against Persepone. The Darkrai Cult will functionally cease to exist after this.



Unlike all the other cult finale fights, Persephone doesn't have an insanely powerful legendary on her side. The worst she has is just a bunch of extremely strong regular pokemon. No big deal, right?



No



Big



Deal



This is my seventh attempt at Persephone.





Mega Spiritomb, whatever.



Sucker Punch fails for reasons I'm still not entirely clear on. Don't really want to know, either.





The point is, Gateau is allowed to repeatedly smash her cake topping in peace.





And for the first time in all seven attempts, Will-o-Wisp actually misses. Meaning Gateau is free to...



Play Rough.





Hammer Arm mercifully misses.



And Metagross takes a lot of damage from Lava Plume as punishment.



Beeisel isn't as lucky the second time, but...



Persephone didn't heal, leaving us 2-0.



I should have mega evolved here and blasted Alakazam with Lunar Cannon.





Instead I let the Alakazam deal 3/4 of Dracolich's health with Shadow Ball while I waste a turn just making its ghost attack stronger.



So now we're 2-1 because I basically gave Dracolich up on a silver platter for no good reason.



I send Aragog out to take care of the problem and Persephone tries to hit its Ground typing with Energy Ball. It doesn't work, and Aragog returns the favor with X-Scissor.



The good news is that a 1 HP pokemon is a very tempting target for the trainer AI. We all know that Persephone is gonna slam that Full Restore right into Alakazam's head.



Like that.



This time, Alakazam is done because it doesn't have the Focus Sash keeping it around.



This is the Houndoom that murdered those Darkrai grunts at the start of the LP.



Super-effective STAB Life Orb-boosted Fire Blast. Aragog goes down in a single hit because somehow Houndoom is faster than Metagross.



Centaurion won't let me down, though.



Ouch.



Houndoom may be faster than Bisharp, but Drain Punch still one shot it.





I keep forgetting that Fairy moves, for some reason, are super effective against Fighting. It's one of those matchups that just doesn't make any sense to me. Anyway, Centaurion holds on by a thread.



Acrobatics is awesome.



Gateau is as safe as can be here.



I could have used Shell Smash, but there was no need.



4x weakness to Fairy is a bitch.



So you might be asking, how did I lose 6 times to her? Simple. Crits. I made that last run look easy because the RNG rolled in my favor consistently. I'm no expert on the subject, but super high level pokemon play seems to heavily favor massive alpha strikes. It's a game of "one shot or be one shot". There's lots of "lucky" crits and 10% additional effect chances coming up consistently.

It feels heavily weighted against you in major plot battles. The closer we get to the Elite Four, the more I notice it because of how often these moments happen. I could also just not be noticing when, like in the battle we just finished, the RNG rolls in my favor. It's also quite sad when "the RNG rolls in your favor" simply means the AI doesn't crush you like a bug.



: Losing and having nothing go right for me? What a brand new experience!



You and me both. There's the door. Don't let it hit you.

: I'll find my way out of here, I promise. And then, Amy, I'll find you. I'll crush you. So keep an eye out, Amy. I'm coming for you.



Good riddance.



Welcome to Prion Town. It's so small that there's no point in even posting a map.







It's such a pity this game doesn't pull some end of Martian Dreams poo poo, and let Amy create stuff out of whole cloth while in her dream realm.



Let's start with this guy by the exit.







Adam? :ocelot:







:3: Amy's a celebrity in her own dream realm. It's such a cute touch.



To put it simply, Nightmare on Elm Street rules apply. If Amy whites out, then she's dead and everyone in the Dream Realm is just as dead.

for the better.

yet. I promised not to ruin it for you.



If we find this parchment, this nice man will give us a Bisharpite.



Instead of pokecenters, there's Chanseys in the dream realm.





:toot:

the dream realm.













Delta Doduo and Dodrio are Psychic type. Their abilities are Compoundeyes (Boosts the Pokemon's accuracy), Trace (The Pokemon copies an opposing Pokemon's Ability), and Psycho Call (Powers up Psychic-type moves in a pinch).

You know how the Psychic-type is largely special focused? Well, Dodrio has 60 base SpAtk. It can learn Psycho Cut and Zen Headbutt, but it's just not enough. If endgame Insurgence weren't so brutally difficult it would be a different story. A psychic Dodrio might even be fun to use in any other circumstance.



Anyway, that's all we can do here, so let's move on.



Cortisol Road is a bit winding, but is still really linear. So no need to really post a map.







Fair.







You're better off not knowing.















Yeah, it kinda has that feeling, doesn't it?



See those stairs? There's another boss fight waiting at the top. So let's... not go up there.



The Dream World has a single hidden grotto, so let's peek inside.













Delta Chinchou and Lanturn are Ghost/Fire type. Their abilities are Flash Fire (Powers up the Pokemon's Fire-type moves if it's hit by one), Illuminate (Raises the likelihood of meeting wild Pokemon), and Levitate (Hidden; Ground moves miss).

Going by stats alone, it's not very good. But looking at whatever it learns, it feels like there's a specific strategy it's really good at that I don't get.



It's such a strange assortment of moves. It learns, by my count, moves from eight different types. Anyone have any insight?





Named for the enemy from Mario 3.



Alright, let's do this.





Howdy boys.

: ...we were doing so well, too. Persephone is insufferable. We tried to help her, bring her into our fold. It's a shame, really. Every person we fail to convert just makes our plan take longer to finish. And you see... I don't think we can exactly follow through with our mission of helping the world from down here.



: There's no easy way out, aside from using Darkrai's ability.



: This world can't survive without the person in which it resides. And if it's your dream realm, Amy...



: It's a shame, too, Amy. I would have loved for you to join us. Damian?



Please don't do this, Damian.



Damian has an extremely large number of different teams. He has one for each different starter, difficulty level, and time of day. I recorded this at like 8:30 PM, so...



:stonk: I really hope when you're fighting his Deoxys, you aren't actually fighting him.



Oh boy. I don't think we have to worry about its Focus Sash.





I prepared ahead of time (meaning I reset when NATHAN got one shot) and gave him a Focus Sash too.



He's only got one job in this fight. It neuters the rest of Damian's team, but doesn't do much about this monstrosity.



I could have used a Full Restore on NATHAN and he still would have gone down. The damage was still done, though. Now I just need to get through the legendary.



It's pure Psychic-type, so...



Getting really loving tired of legendaries taking my guys out in a single shot.



I'd have been better served to just have Dracolich smack its rear end at Deoxys and save the mega evolution for Aragog.



Remember way back when I was talking about the Mega Rayquaza fight, and how it just kept 1-hit KOing my dudes in my first run? YEAH, IT WAS LIKE THIS.



Aragog has higher defense than Beeisel. Beeisel got hit with a supereffective Low Kick, while Aragog was only hit with normal effectiveness Psycho Boost.



Beeisel will not survive a second Low Kick, and this motherfucker's already swept through half my team. Two of my strongest couldn't so much as act before they instantly went down.

Do you see why I struggled to call the game good in the OP? Because of bullshit like this.



Because I guess the AI took pity on me, it used a nerfed Psycho Boost instead of kicking Beeisel to death.



On the "upside" Beeisel is now faster than it.



Iron Head hits hard when it's boosted like that.



Get hosed, rear end in a top hat.





Here's the "funny" thing, no amount of playing better could have prevented this. The number of pokemon that are faster than a regular Deoxys is vanishingly small, and most of those are other legendaries. In fact, the only strategy that I see that could work would be to send out a sacrificial 'mon with Trick Room, armed with a Focus Sash.



Battle's not over yet, though.



Gateau can handle this Blastoise.







I said it for Hydreigon and it remains true for Delta Blastoise... 4x Fairy weakness is a bitch, innit?



Metagross is coming out and... ouch. Deoxys did so much damage to my dudes.



Need to look up if I can give NATHAN the Roar move. It wouldn't have helped here, but it may in a future battle.





Zen Headbutt hurts, but Centaurion is a tough guy, so he can take whatever this jerk can dish out.



Mostly because of Drain Punch, to be fair.



Livewire started paying dividends once it finally started to affect the enemy team.





Metagross is losing here and it's glorious.







Two words, Damian: "you lose."



Between Drain Punch and Acrobatics, Centaurion is probably the strongest pokemon I have on my team.





: You're quite a battler. It's a shame you never chose to join us. You would have been excellent.

Not that I would have, but you never asked, rear end in a top hat.

: We could have saved the region in days.



: I sensed another legendary pokemon down here... perhaps they have a way to get out. Worse comes to worst, we could just... stay down here. The people down here are corrupt. This would be the perfect place for us to help...



: Let's go, Damian.



: Let's go, Damian.
: ... ... ...



:raise:

: What are you doing? I said now. Yeesh, give a kid something to look after and their head grows three sizes.





NEXT TIME: Adam wanted to meet with us, so let's not keep him waiting

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Couldn't you just give someone with Destiny Bond a Focus Sash to wipe out the Deoxys?

EDIT: Which, now that I think about it, was the same way you beat Mega Rayquaza.

Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Feb 16, 2019

Bloody Emissary
Mar 31, 2014

Powawa~n

DoubleNegative posted:




Sucker Punch fails for reasons I'm still not entirely clear on. Don't really want to know, either.





The point is, Gateau is allowed to repeatedly smash her cake topping in peace.

Sucker Punch gets +1 priority if the opponent uses a physical/special move but fails if it uses a status move. It's easy to exploit with things like Shell Smash or Swords Dance if you know it's coming.

I like Delta Chimchou/Lantern's design. Such a cute little ghostie! :3:

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

DoubleNegative posted:



: A dream sequence? How cliched can you get? Are we really doing this? And it's basically the nightmare realm, too. Everything's black and red, it's so edgy.
Percy continues to be the absolute worst person

quote:









This however is a very good boy, the middle head on dodrio just looks so happy.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
...Whose Damian, again?

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Rabbi Raccoon posted:

...Whose Damian, again?
White-haired rival boy whose stepmother is a real dick to him. We first met him in the first town, IIRC, and his mother was saying stuff like, "you can't go get a Pokemon, kid, you'd just poke your eye out with it".

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Commander Keene posted:

White-haired rival boy whose stepmother is a real dick to him. We first met him in the first town, IIRC, and his mother was saying stuff like, "you can't go get a Pokemon, kid, you'd just poke your eye out with it".

I mean, considering his current condition, she was technically right, his original right eye just got "poked out" one cell at a time, from the inside.

Black Robe
Sep 12, 2017

Generic Magic User


DoubleNegative posted:

Fair warning, I'm about to start getting a lot more down on the game with tomorrow's update. The short version is I remembered why I called the game "not very good" in the OP.

The long version is a huge rant that can basically be boiled down to :xcom:

also i was very nearly softlocked. i had to reset the boss fight immediately after entering the dream realm 6 times

That sucks. But on the other hand, we're almost at the end of the game and it's taken this long to get to "not very good" status? Can't be too mad about that.

Also n'thing the weird charming nature of the non-edge version so far.

As for the update itself... On the one hand I was expecting Persephone to have some really mean gimmick or ace in the hole. On the other it's actually completely in character and appropriate for her to actually be nothing special and just relying on lucky crits to win anything :allears: It's mean from a gameplay perspective but works in the story, weirdly. Though that excuse won't work with the Elite Four etc.

And ouch, Damian :stare: I can't help but feel having multiple teams for different times of day might just be needlessly overcomplicating things a little. What are the other options? Presumably Deoxys and Shaymin don't change and he'll always have his starter, so it's just Metagross getting swapped around? Ignoring that, running into that Deoxys feels similar to my first encounter with Ultra Necrozma; I was expecting hard, but not that hard, and I got completely pasted.

Though, again, I can't be too mad at the game. It saved its bullshit for the end and a very high-stakes battle. At least the rest of his team is less terrible.

I think for Deoxys you'd need Destiny Bond/Focus Sash as someone else suggested. Or Counter/Mirror Move and Focus Sash, and resetting if you guess the wrong one, assuming it did enough damage. Either way someone's going to be sacrificed to take it down. Shame you can't use OFS' Pyukumuku Method since it's not in this game. Shedinja would work if it wasn't for Knock Off.

Raoden
Oct 9, 2012

Black Robe posted:

And ouch, Damian :stare: I can't help but feel having multiple teams for different times of day might just be needlessly overcomplicating things a little. What are the other options? Presumably Deoxys and Shaymin don't change and he'll always have his starter, so it's just Metagross getting swapped around? Ignoring that, running into that Deoxys feels similar to my first encounter with Ultra Necrozma; I was expecting hard, but not that hard, and I got completely pasted.

Damian's Shaymin changes between its land and sky forme depending on the time of day. Other than that his teams are the same.

The hard mode version of the fight is extra nasty as along with a 5th Pokemon it gives Damian a max revive which he will use to revive his Deoxys after you KO it.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.
Delta Lanturn seems like it wants to be a special sweeper (Tail Glow raises special attack by three stages), or a gimmicky setup wall (stockpile/will o'wisp/clear smog/follow me) but its moves are just all over the place and its typing and stats (assuming they're roughly the same as the original) don't really lend themselves well to either. It literally never learns a special move for one of its types by level up, which is not good.

Leraika fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Feb 16, 2019

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

...Whose Damian, again?

Deoxy-fied non-dumbass rival who turned out to be the kid of Abyssal's leader.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


Provided the First Auger is in our dream world, I really hope he finds a way out because even if we beat him here the guard before Victory Road still won't let us pass.

"But I did beat the Augur sir, I have the badge right here."

"Oh yeah, where did you fight him?"

"In my head. :smuggo:"

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Raoden posted:

The hard mode version of the fight is extra nasty as along with a 5th Pokemon it gives Damian a max revive which he will use to revive his Deoxys after you KO it.

It's actually kind of cool they implemented that, I don't think any Pokemon game before has ever given opposing trainers the ability to use revive items. I can't imagine that's a fun moment, and this fight looks awful enough as it is, but I think that's a nice touch. (Of course, the question then becomes "why don't any other trainers do that?" but that's a different issue.)

These fights look really frustrating to deal with, and it sounds like you're locked out of a lot of team-modification options, which certainly doesn't make it better. I'm not sure they're egregious enough to get me to agree with "bad game", and this certainly isn't the first major difficulty spike of the sort, but this looked painful.

Elchar
Jan 15, 2019

one majestic bitch
I know you are not going to use it but oh my god, that Delta Chinchou is absolutely adorable, I love it. I had to do a quick drawing of it.

OgretailFood
Oct 9, 2012

Recommended by 10 out of 10 Aragami

Damian :ohdear:. His lack of dialogue is unsettling, it's obvious he doesn't want to do any of this poo poo yet he's forced to do so, and then he manages to give you a plot coupon because you are his friend.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

Elchar posted:

I know you are not going to use it but oh my god, that Delta Chinchou is absolutely adorable, I love it. I had to do a quick drawing of it.



I love him! :neckbeard:

Lyumia
Nov 7, 2018

Glutton for Punishment

Honestly I have no clue what delta lanturn is supposed to do either, considering the weaknesses and check that regular Laturn has kind of just makes the Delta worse?


Leraika posted:

Delta Lanturn seems like it wants to be a special sweeper (Tail Glow raises special attack by three stages), or a gimmicky setup wall (stockpile/will o'wisp/clear smog/follow me) but its moves are just all over the place and its typing and stats (assuming they're roughly the same as the original) don't really lend themselves well to either. It literally never learns a special move for one of its types by level up, which is not good.

I thought this too, until I looked at its TM list on the wiki. It can learn Dream Eater, Lunar Cannon, Sludge Wave and a few other special moves and statuses. It still has problems though, because I'm pretty sure it's bulk or typing wouldn't stop it from getting 1HKO by most bosses in the late game

It does learn flamethrower by level up actually but not shadow ball, oddly enough.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Take me seriously! :cry:

What a goofus. Goodbye forever, you ineffectual edgelord.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Delta Chinchou is adorables, not going to lie. And it's evo is pretty slick too. I have to give the Deltas credit, they run the range of "useless" to "stupid good", very similar to how real 'Mons do.

That being said, it's sad to see the game finally rear its ugly head. It's been enjoyable so far though, as has the LP!

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

Lyumia posted:



I thought this too, until I looked at its TM list on the wiki. It can learn Dream Eater, Lunar Cannon, Sludge Wave and a few other special moves and statuses. It still has problems though, because I'm pretty sure it's bulk or typing wouldn't stop it from getting 1HKO by most bosses in the late game

It does learn flamethrower by level up actually but not shadow ball, oddly enough.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying; that it doesn't have the stats or movepool for sweeping and it doesn't have the stats or typing to be a wall. It's just not good, sadly.

James Peach
Dec 30, 2008

DoubleNegative posted:

Here's the "funny" thing, no amount of playing better could have prevented this. The number of pokemon that are faster than a regular Deoxys is vanishingly small, and most of those are other legendaries. In fact, the only strategy that I see that could work would be to send out a sacrificial 'mon with Trick Room, armed with a Focus Sash.

Luckily, there is a counter to Deoxys, and its name is Mega Sableye. Defensively, Sableye is immune to 3 out of 4 of Deoxys's attacks, and Mega Sableye has enough bulk to tank Knock Off.

Fake Out on the first turn (a priority move) causes Deoxys to flinch while breaking its Focus Sash. Sableye then Mega Evolves and knocks Deoxys out with Foul Play next turn (Foul Play calculates damage using the target's Attack stat instead of Sableye's).

Galick
Nov 26, 2011

Why does Khajiit have to go to prison this time?
See, Double Negative and I are going to have vastly different experiences going forward, because I had two aces in the hole that he didn't. A full Leftovers/Ingrain/Substitute/Wood Hammer Wall Delta Snorlax, along with a Flinchakiss. Flinchakiss was bulky enough to survive through Deoxys, and won the damage race, and there is literally no special attacker from this point of the game going forward that can break Delta Snorlax's substitute in one shot. So I just got to stall out a lot of teams, because I didn't even need to dip into the Full Restore pocket because Ingrain + Leftovers (which worked for me, unlike Double Negative???) kept on giving him 60ish HP back every turn.

Malah
May 18, 2015

Most anything with Prankster could neuter that Deoxys as well, and Focus Sash/Destiny Bond is always an option to deal with bullshit speed sweepers like that.

That reminds me: I didn't do anything special to deal with that Rayquaza nonsense. I looked through my PC for a steel type and at some point I'd gotten a Shieldon, so I let Rayquaza eat my front runner and then beat it to death with an underleveled Bastiodon. It was very satisfying.

Raoden posted:

The hard mode version of the fight is extra nasty as along with a 5th Pokemon it gives Damian a max revive which he will use to revive his Deoxys after you KO it.
Now that is just ridiculous.

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument

Galick posted:

See, Double Negative and I are going to have vastly different experiences going forward, because I had two aces in the hole that he didn't. A full Leftovers/Ingrain/Substitute/Wood Hammer Wall Delta Snorlax, along with a Flinchakiss. Flinchakiss was bulky enough to survive through Deoxys, and won the damage race, and there is literally no special attacker from this point of the game going forward that can break Delta Snorlax's substitute in one shot. So I just got to stall out a lot of teams, because I didn't even need to dip into the Full Restore pocket because Ingrain + Leftovers (which worked for me, unlike Double Negative???) kept on giving him 60ish HP back every turn.

I didn't remember this fight and I think my Delta Snorlax is why.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Raoden posted:

The hard mode version of the fight is extra nasty as along with a 5th Pokemon it gives Damian a max revive which he will use to revive his Deoxys after you KO it.

what

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
There's an easy mode too, right? I'm curious how the differences on these fights near the end which seem unfair stack up when you're taking the more relaxed version of them. Hard Mode's hilariously dickpunch though since on top of more competitive movesets and stuff like that max revive, it apparently also does this

quote:

Individual Values will be set to 31 in all stats, for nearly all major trainers' Pokémon.
Beneficial Natures are assigned to all major trainers' Pokémon starting with the fourth gym.
510 non-random, beneficial Effort Values will be assigned to some major trainers' Pokémon starting at the Whirl Islands.

Also Damien giving us their part of the broken crystal. He's still in there somewhere. :unsmith:

Kitfox88 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 16, 2019

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.
I figured out a thing that might help exemplify an issue I've been struggling to pin down

You know, most pokemon games give you at least one newer legendary around here-ish

the problem with making all the legendary pokemon into plot-critical enemy monsters is that your character never gets to own any of them if they all belong to the baddies or npcs. (Mew aside, I suppose, but come on.)

this game is trying to make your character feel like they're on equal standing to a bunch of the villains, except you're the one who has to defeat all of them so the idea gets undermined immediately, leaving you to face the gauntlet without being acknowledged as something special

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

GeneX posted:

I figured out a thing that might help exemplify an issue I've been struggling to pin down

You know, most pokemon games give you at least one newer legendary around here-ish

the problem with making all the legendary pokemon into plot-critical enemy monsters is that your character never gets to own any of them if they all belong to the baddies or npcs. (Mew aside, I suppose, but come on.)

this game is trying to make your character feel like they're on equal standing to a bunch of the villains, except you're the one who has to defeat all of them so the idea gets undermined immediately, leaving you to face the gauntlet without being acknowledged as something special

I dunno, Mew being a jack of all trades that can literally change itself up at will to counter whatever you're facing seems to fit thematically. You get it a little late to truly make the most of it, but reusable tms made it a much more interesting monster than gen1.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

quote:

A dream sequence? How cliched can you get? Are we really doing this? And it's basically the nightmare realm, too. Everything's black and red, it's so edgy.

Okay this has been nagging at me for a while but the game keeps doing this thing here, where its like oh woooow so edgey or things like it and it was cute at first but now they keep doing it and it's reading less like a sly wink to the audience and more my rib is in pain because they keep nudging me harder with the elbow every time.

It's just tiring now, which is part of what rubbed me the wrong way about the non-edgey mode.



at least nightmare magicant doesn't have rivers of blood

Manic_Misanthrope
Jul 1, 2010


Stall Pokemon are perfectly valid in high-level play. Lugia in particular was noted for being near invincible even by legend pokemon status and Skarmory/Blissey was a defensive combination so potent that it was worth having a Magneton or Magnezone for the pure purpose of locking down Skarmory and killing that steel-winged rear end in a top hat. The problem is it's very difficult to raise a dedicated tank in a single player game because they struggle to gain EXP at the same rate as sweepers who can rack up KOs with a lot less effort making "Go big or go home" the preferred method of choice for the vast majority of the playerbase. Unless they're blatantly overpowered it's just too tedious to bring them up right especially while thinking about EVs and Natures.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


FoolyCharged posted:

I dunno, Mew being a jack of all trades that can literally change itself up at will to counter whatever you're facing seems to fit thematically. You get it a little late to truly make the most of it, but reusable tms made it a much more interesting monster than gen1.

Yeah I sorta wish they'd drop Mew's level to mid-20s or so (lining up with Nora's Celebi back during her second battle) and have it join the party officially once our cover is blown and everyone knows we're the super special chosen one.

Feels a bit strange having everyone and their mother have a legendary while ours is a glorified key item for like 75% of the game.

Thundersword238
Oct 15, 2012

I don't remember deoxys being too hard, I think because I invested in Delta Charizard's special defense and health. He couldn't one shot me, so lunar cannon just ripped through him.

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Galick
Nov 26, 2011

Why does Khajiit have to go to prison this time?

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

Stall Pokemon are perfectly valid in high-level play. Lugia in particular was noted for being near invincible even by legend pokemon status and Skarmory/Blissey was a defensive combination so potent that it was worth having a Magneton or Magnezone for the pure purpose of locking down Skarmory and killing that steel-winged rear end in a top hat. The problem is it's very difficult to raise a dedicated tank in a single player game because they struggle to gain EXP at the same rate as sweepers who can rack up KOs with a lot less effort making "Go big or go home" the preferred method of choice for the vast majority of the playerbase. Unless they're blatantly overpowered it's just too tedious to bring them up right especially while thinking about EVs and Natures.

The Audino trainer makes it totally viable to level up a wall, and they give HP EVs anyway - and there's an EV trainer right there in the base too who sends out a team of three level 1 Pokemon that give specific EVs based on what you ask for. It took me all of 45 minutes to fully EV train my entire team thanks to the Power items being on sale in Helios, and Delta Snorlax was good to go from that point onwards. I didn't EV train up until I was going back to the Darkrai base too, but I definitely had a full specialized team at this point which helped a ton!

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