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SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

Pathfinder:Kingmaker is a computer RPG game from Owlcat Games, that brings the Pathfinder game system, and the Kingmaker Adventure Path to computers for the first time.

It can be considered a spiritual successor to Neverwinter Nights and the Baldur's Gate series, in more ways than one, as the Pathfinder system started as an offshoot of the 3.5 Edition of Dungeons and Dragons pen and paper roleplaying game, and Kingmaker plays a lot like Baldur's Gate and other such games, where you control a party of your lead characters as well as a variety of companions (with their own desires and wishes),and later on, you can add custom characters to your party.

The base storyling is that you get sent into a region of territory (called the Stolen Lands, because, well, all the local powers have at one time or another stolen it from one of their neighbors) and told if you can pacify the region, they'll support you as it's leader. Your party will not only go on adventures but create a thriving country (the Kingmaker part of the title) with a kingdom building side to the game.

Steam Storefront: https://store.steampowered.com/app/...nder_Kingmaker/
GoG.COM Storefront. https://www.gog.com/game/pathfinder...xplorer_edition

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SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

First opinions of the game is that it's a pretty good translation of the Pathfinder RPG system into a real time pauseable (you can set it to pause at the end of each round) game. However, things that are useful in the theater of the mind or battlemap do not always cross over well with computers that can take the hassle out of things.

(and I see someone else made the Baldur's Gate 2018 joke as well in the POEII thread, GMTA ... Goon Minds Think Alike)

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004



One thing to note is that if you wanted custom NPCs, they use a 20 point buy system instead of your main character's 25 point buy. You are also encouraged to keep your everburning torches you get at the beginning or get some reliable aoe damage early on.

This is also a game where you can't just pick up everything because there are weight limits, but it isn't that big of a deal because before you leave every zone, you get an option to loot all of the corpses on the way out, so that way you can sort through all of the padded armors and clubs you are fine with leaving behind once instead of a dozen or so times.

willing to settle
Apr 13, 2011


This game feels really bad. Between the sluggish pace of everything, the woefully balanced combat and the generic (so far) writing, there really isn't a lot to recommend it.

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012


willing to settle posted:

This game feels really bad. Between the sluggish pace of everything, the woefully balanced combat and the generic (so far) writing, there really isn't a lot to recommend it.


eh I'm enjoying it so far. It's not nearly to the quality of a PoE/BG but it's no inquisition. My main problem is PoE 2 just came out a few months ago and it brought the genre forwards in a lot of ways that this simply dosen't. I'm missing a lot of little stuff like being able to speed up time to make walking not be a slog or the bestiary not having pictures or recipes not having descriptions. It also dosen't help that low level combat in pathfinder is loving terrible.



Is there any reason to ever put Jaethal in your party? She dosen't seem to be good enough of a character gameplay-wise to justify the annoyance of her only healing source being spells.

ccubed
Jul 14, 2016


I'm liking this game a lot so far. But I have SEVERE re-rollitis. I've gotten to the first inn like 4 times and restarted with different characters.

I hope we'll start seeing more build theorycrafting soon. This reminds me of Neverwinter Nights and I LOVED the incredibly detailed, precise and powerful characters you could create in that.

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.

Do you get to build your own player character in this, or are they all premade? What sort of roleplaying is there? are we talking more Planescape level stuff or Fallout 4 levels?

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


DrManiac posted:

eh I'm enjoying it so far. It's not nearly to the quality of a PoE/BG but it's no inquisition. My main problem is PoE 2 just came out a few months ago and it brought the genre forwards in a lot of ways that this simply dosen't. I'm missing a lot of little stuff like being able to speed up time to make walking not be a slog or the bestiary not having pictures or recipes not having descriptions. It also dosen't help that low level combat in pathfinder is loving terrible.



Is there any reason to ever put Jaethal in your party? She dosen't seem to be good enough of a character gameplay-wise to justify the annoyance of her only healing source being spells.

Inquisitor is a pretty good class and undead can shrug quite a few things the rest of your team cannot, so she can actually be a useful bait at times.

Zodiac5000
Jun 19, 2006

Protects the Pack!



Doctor Rope

I picked up this game and my initial review is as follows, for the four groups of people I see it mattering to:

People who don't know poo poo about 3rd edition DnD or Computer RPGs:
There is zero chance this game would convince them of the merits of either. They will hate this game. Avoid like it's plutonium.

People who know how computer based RPGs work but not familiar/interested in Pathfinder:
They will find the game horrifically poorly documented and lacking a lot of QoL stuff that comes from the modern design, plus questionable QA. Purchase in the future if it goes on a good sale and gets some QA patches, otherwise stick with something like Divinity 2 or Pillars 2, you can get better CRPGs for your money.

People who know Pathfinder but aren't super familiar with computer RPGs:
The game will be faithful to the source material, if somewhat clunky. The game is almost exactly what they played on the tabletop with some odd decisions regarding resting mechanics that make me want to never use wizards because gently caress having to rest more. (one way to solve for caster supremacy I guess, make players hate doing what they need to be good) Purchase if you have the patience to handle clunk, maybe wait a few weeks if you think you need less QA issues, but you wanted pathfinder, now you have it, so definitely buy this game at some point.

People who know both pathfinder and computer RPGs:
The resting mechanics will baffle you, not because you don't understand them, but because you'll be confused why this was choice was made at all. The combat is extremely swingy, like the beginning of Baldur's gate where a gibberling could tear your bhaalspawn a new rear end in a top hat (at least at the start, I'm only about level 4 so far). The storybook action sections are better than most games use of them, and this game *feels* a lot more like playing an actual tabletop RPG than many of the newer games I've played (looking at you PoE and Torment). You will desperately wish you could have the dungeon-be-gone mod from BG2 after doing your fourth reroll (of the ten you are going to do before you pick a character). It's a 'purchase now' if you really want a pathfinder game and have the patience to handle the jank and QA problems. 'Purchase in like a month' if you'll need a new RPG in your collection soon but you want some of the rough edges sanded down, and 'buy on sale' if you're neither here nor there on pathfinder but the idea of having a more tabletop-ey experience appeals to you.

Knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't have purchased the game this soon from a value-for-money standpoint. I'd probably belong to a 'purchase on sale' group, but I wanted a 'tabletop' experience and was willing to let the hunger override my good sense. I wont' call it bad value, but I won't call it a great deal either. It's not a terrible or bad game, and it's not really a great game either. It's probably best described as 'fine, but QA issues are real and the documentation is weak.'

TEENAGE WITCH
Jul 20, 2008

NAH LAD


it was a real choice to have heavy rain slow u down and then to have it rain all the time

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.



Dinosaur Gum

I played a lot of BG1/2, and Icewind dale. I loved those games but didn't like Pillars of Eternity quite as much.

I'm not far into this one but it seems fantastic. I definitely recommend it. The writing seems fine. I haven't played for more than about 7 hours but I'm really enjoying it. I'm playing on normal, I don't ever recommend playing stuff like this on a hard difficulty level. The game seems to auto-save enough, but as one of the tips says "if you are unsure, save".

If you wanted BG3 with all of the quality of life improvements that have happened in gaming since then, get this.

wjs5
Aug 22, 2009


Do you get to actually build a settlement though?

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004



Probably should point out: on the wiki there seems to be a page for traits, that is a lie, traits don't seem to be in the game. Also is there any information on future DLC stuff? They just seem to think that there will be several waves of DLC, the Season Pass only covers the first few(if any), and it TOTALLY ISNT CUT CONTENT.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.



Dinosaur Gum

wjs5 posted:

Do you get to actually build a settlement though?

The first main task is to kick out a bandit lord from the not-kingdom. Spoiler any answer you have to this, but I'm suspecting that his fort becomes your base once you kill him. That's probably like 10-12 hours into the game.

From what the tooltips/etc have told me, kingdom management is involved. I'm guessing his fort becomes your base, and you can probably improve it etc. Tooltips have mentioned to 'assign the correct person to the correct position, e.g. a treasurer will improve your economy' so I think it's probably another layer of gameplay.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



The game seems fun enough so far, but the hot patch earlier today broke the ability to hire custom companions.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






The whole kingdom building thing seems really cool and what drew me to the game from pre-release info

But I have to get through my backlog and poo poo and lack of time

wjs5
Aug 22, 2009


redreader posted:

The first main task is to kick out a bandit lord from the not-kingdom. Spoiler any answer you have to this, but I'm suspecting that his fort becomes your base once you kill him. That's probably like 10-12 hours into the game.

From what the tooltips/etc have told me, kingdom management is involved. I'm guessing his fort becomes your base, and you can probably improve it etc. Tooltips have mentioned to 'assign the correct person to the correct position, e.g. a treasurer will improve your economy' so I think it's probably another layer of gameplay.

Having actually played kingmaker if it takes 12 hours to even get to the part were you finally get to control your city, the loving game should be like 300 hours long as we always managed to get to that point faster in real life.

Merrill Grinch
May 21, 2001

infuriated by investments


I'm like really that passing time in the kingdom simulator doesn't rest up your party. It's been three days guys, get out of my throne room and go memorize your spells or something.

Also if you want to use the "slow leveling" Pathfinder rules, that's cool. But then the monster xp is shaved down to a fraction of what it should be too. I could have really done with fewer trash fights to slog through with the remainder having a better reward. Level 5 is gonna take forever to get 9000xp at about 20 a pop.

I really want to like this game but it needs some QoL patches.

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013


Has anyone said anything about / investigated how moddable this is?

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007



Does the game make sensible use of Pathfinder rules in a CRPG environment, or does it slavishly stick to completely stupid things BECAUSE THATS HOW IT IS IN THE RULES?

I've also read a few things about the early levels being completely unbalanced, with completely unwinnable random encounters (e.g. werewolves before you have access to silvered weapons) you can't run from and combat based around reloading until the dice gods like you rather than rewarding planning and tactics. Any truth to this?

Finally, is there any kind of balance between martials and casters? I know that in Pathfinder if a class isn't at least a half caster its trash, and the half casters pale in comparison to full casters, but maybe they did something with that for the game?

A surfing dog?!
Apr 23, 2006



I've definitely done some reloading, but changing my tactics is usually what ends up winning the fights for me rather than hoping I get luckier dice rolls. Expeditious Retreat pulling works pretty well for the few fights I've tried it on.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010


Not a Step posted:

Does the game make sensible use of Pathfinder rules in a CRPG environment, or does it slavishly stick to completely stupid things BECAUSE THATS HOW IT IS IN THE RULES?

I've also read a few things about the early levels being completely unbalanced, with completely unwinnable random encounters (e.g. werewolves before you have access to silvered weapons) you can't run from and combat based around reloading until the dice gods like you rather than rewarding planning and tactics. Any truth to this?

Finally, is there any kind of balance between martials and casters? I know that in Pathfinder if a class isn't at least a half caster its trash, and the half casters pale in comparison to full casters, but maybe they did something with that for the game?

I'm most of the way through Act 2 ( ie I have the Keep, and am now level 10ish ) and didn't know poo poo about Pathfinder before this. Couple thoughts. Oh and I'm playing on the Core Rules variant, which is Challenging in game?

- Wizards and other Casters are useful, but this really doesn't feel like a BG situation. Both my main character ( half orc Fighter with 22 Strength ), Amiri, and Jaethal have significantly higher body counts/utility then anyone else. I've won a number of boss fights by just hitting the drat thing for 40ish damage with a Greatsword. I find my Wizards more then anything are still casting buffs/supporting rather then actually killing whole groups of enemies, especially with the resting mechanic. My two best casters are also both mixed martial. One is mixed sword/casting, one is mixed bow/casting.

- Apparently this barely uses the Pathfinder ruleset? People are saying everything has too high of AC. I notice especially early on a lot of fights have a lot of missed swings. Tactics are super important though, you need to be charging casters/archers, you need to be sleeping chaff, etc etc. Abusing stuff like sleep/color spray is super helpful to get around the early game AC stuff and get a lot of hits off.

- There are some dumb choices tbh. Around level 2 you'll meet some Technic? Slavers who are all in near full armor/plate, and the game will outright tell you it's dumb to fight them. They only ask for a single companion. If you fight them and lose, they take the first companion downed. Thing is the whole thing is scripted so your companion will escape and show you their camp, which leads to more companions ( and a pretty easy fight at their camp. ). So it's a "broken bullshit fight." everyone on the forums is complaining about, but with a lot of outs.

There is also a swarms mechanic, which can only be damaged by AoE stuff, with no indication this is true, so a lot of people are running in and attacking swarms and getting party wiped because the game didn't explain poo poo.

The end of Act 1 fight at a Temple is vs a level 5-6ish Bear that can easily crit for 20-30 per hit, and does a ton of damage if you go in low level. Lots of people are going in at level 2-3 and getting party wiped by this bear. Thing is if you complete the zone first the Bear is trivial cause you'll be level 5-6.

The entire western half of the early game map is tied to the random encounter pool for a lategame/late chapter region, which means you can very easily get an encounter with Elder Air Elementals/Werewolves/etc at level 1. That feels more like a bug then anything, since it's only along a certain road.

redreader posted:

The first main task is to kick out a bandit lord from the not-kingdom. Spoiler any answer you have to this, but I'm suspecting that his fort becomes your base once you kill him. That's probably like 10-12 hours into the game.

From what the tooltips/etc have told me, kingdom management is involved. I'm guessing his fort becomes your base, and you can probably improve it etc. Tooltips have mentioned to 'assign the correct person to the correct position, e.g. a treasurer will improve your economy' so I think it's probably another layer of gameplay.

Yeah it's fairly complex. Companions can be given kingdom roles, you are constantly building individual buildings out, you have a conquest map to other territories, dealing with political intrigue from neighboring countries, etc etc.

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004



Not a Step posted:

Does the game make sensible use of Pathfinder rules in a CRPG environment, or does it slavishly stick to completely stupid things BECAUSE THATS HOW IT IS IN THE RULES?

I've also read a few things about the early levels being completely unbalanced, with completely unwinnable random encounters (e.g. werewolves before you have access to silvered weapons) you can't run from and combat based around reloading until the dice gods like you rather than rewarding planning and tactics. Any truth to this?

Finally, is there any kind of balance between martials and casters? I know that in Pathfinder if a class isn't at least a half caster its trash, and the half casters pale in comparison to full casters, but maybe they did something with that for the game?

So far it has been very faithful to the tabletop rules and mechanics. There are some things missing here and there, and I think they are using some unchained rules or unchained inspired rules(it looks/feels like the skills went through the consolidated filter twice). Favored class stuff isn't in there, but some of the bigger parts are still intact.

I think the random encounters mostly put you into combat right away and don't give you an opportunity to setup that much, but yeah, I think the random encounter chart in the game is a bit silly earlier on. I sure as hell hope that I'm not fighting a pack of 3 normal wolves like when I'm 12 or whatever.

Casters still looking pretty strong, but plenty of mobs seem to understand that sending their arrows towards casters is a good thing, so be prepared to have to break line of sight from enemies firing with a -whatever penalty from two to three screens away.

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007



So its basically a decent game with poorly thought out open world mechanics letting players encounter stuff way earlier than intended?

If you do sequence break and hit encounters like the bear way earlier are there signposts that you shouldn't be here yet? And can you back out from a fight or do you just need to keep a ton of saves to reload from?

I'm trying to decide between this or PoE2 as a CRPG game.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

One of my twitch.tv streaming friends is 15 minutes into a rant because he took advantage of a free resting place and got attacked by Viscount Smoulderburn.

Those of you who know what that is, and why it would be a bad thing for Level 3 people to stumble upon with no/little warning.. can understand his rant.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010


Not a Step posted:

So its basically a decent game with poorly thought out open world mechanics letting players encounter stuff way earlier than intended?

If you do sequence break and hit encounters like the bear way earlier are there signposts that you shouldn't be here yet? And can you back out from a fight or do you just need to keep a ton of saves to reload from?

I'm trying to decide between this or PoE2 as a CRPG game.

Uh, both are very different.

I'd say there really isn't a lot of signposts. It autosaves constantly so it's no big deal just reloading the autosave and retrying/going to a different spot but it's pretty gleeful about letting you get in over your head.

It's a much stricter interpretation of the old games, and really does feel like a Baldurs Gate 1.5 kind of deal mixed with a much more fleshed out Crossroads Keep. Like the plot is pretty basic if well told, it's a lot of low level DnD, and it doesn't hesitate to gently caress you. But at the same time it's working that nostalgia button in the back of my mind in a way neither of the PoE games did at all, and I loving love Kingdom building in games ( and the kingdom here is complex, fleshed out, and easily a game within itself. ).

On the other side of the coin, PoE2 is a modernization of the genre in a way it genuinely needs, almost moreso then Original Sin 2. I loving loved the storytelling in PoE2, I loved the boat action, the world building, the factions, it all came together really well. And so far the DLC have all been bangers. But PoE2 to me is kind of easy in a way that I struggled to deal with, I rarely if ever encountered a fight I couldn't just beat by just leaning on my go to strategies. Either I absolutely rolled every encounter without ever having to adjust my tactics/work with nothing, or I was facing a boss and had to use every single thing at my disposal. Technically I could just up the difficulty, but that only just lead to PotD. Which was awesome in PoE 1 and felt like the way to play for me. But in PoE2 feels awful and I'm not sure why. They've since readjusted it and have been adding in additional difficulty modifiers, so ymmv of course.

Of the two I'd probably say PoE2? This could use a QoL pass or two.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.


How's the writing, roleplaying, reactivity, companions etc?

The Crotch
Oct 16, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'm the fighter who put all her points into constitution and charisma and has trouble carrying her starting gear.

A surfing dog?!
Apr 23, 2006



Not a Step posted:

So its basically a decent game with poorly thought out open world mechanics letting players encounter stuff way earlier than intended?

If you do sequence break and hit encounters like the bear way earlier are there signposts that you shouldn't be here yet? And can you back out from a fight or do you just need to keep a ton of saves to reload from?

I'm trying to decide between this or PoE2 as a CRPG game.

Some of the tough encounters give clear indications, but there's also some bullshit ones like that cave where you pick berries. It autosaves before you enter each area so you shouldn't ever really get yourself stuck fighting something that's too tough. I would feel much better about the tough encounters if you could actually run away and leave areas while in combat, but the one time I tried it wouldn't let me.

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010


Milkfred E. Moore posted:

How's the writing, roleplaying, reactivity, companions etc?

Writing is based off an actual module, so it's pretty basic. They fluff it up decently enough, but it's still ancient evil stuff at it's core.

Roleplaying is huge, you are constantly checked against your alignment/choices and that poo poo adds up. I've seen multiple neutral only options during quests that would have huge effects on playstyle. Same with good/evil, or lawful/chaotic. While the or part of the either/or equation tends to involve throwing you into encounters you will struggle to beat, if you do go off crit path and beat those encounters the game totally changes around it. For example in Act 1 you are constantly asked to either go after your Rival or go after the Stag Lord. If you go after the Stag Lord you get a chance to kill/recruit his generals which takes them out of the final battle/helps you out later. But your Rival then gets to accomplish more of his plans. If you go after your Rival you can get more companions/gently caress with your Rival, but will likely have to fight all the Stag Lords generals at the final fight.

It just spirals exponentially from there.

A quick example, if you are true Neutral you can convince the local kobolds/mites that the bad guy is just loving with all of them, and they need to stick it to the bourgeoisie because they are all small. You then start a socialist revolution amongst both groups and they potentially worship your character, and will show up constantly later on to be your eyes and ears in the Stolen Lands. Or you can help one side fight. Or the other. Or just slaughter them all. Each of these options adjusts and changes future stuff. It actually -feels- like it's taking your choices into account. Another great example is the end of the tutorial, where your actions in the tutorial determine which companions you get.

Companions are good. I like all of them so far, even the evil ones. They have great personality, and some form of interesting backstory. You can also of course influence them with your alignment/choices as well, and eventually put them into Kingdom positions once you unlock that.

The Crotch posted:

I'm the fighter who put all her points into constitution and charisma and has trouble carrying her starting gear.

jesus loving christ, gently caress valerie.

Jaethal is absurdly overtuned however, as are Regongar and Octavia, so they more then make up for how awful Valerie is.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

I think the way to describe pathfinder:Kingmaker and it's story/system is.. that it is a CONVERSION of the Kingmaker AP, and it might have been better as an adaptation.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER


Taco Defender

This sounds like a game I could enjoy, since I like mediocre RPGs, D&D or D&D-like systems, and real-time-with-pause combat.

Although it might be smart to wait until the game gets a few patches and some cut-content DLCs first.

Node fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Sep 28, 2018

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007



I like the idea of leading a kobold revolution and setting up my own personal fiefdom of the proletariat. I also like that 'just beat it to death' is a viable path to victory. I was worried the game would be balanced around summon tanking and spell cheese.

Little bit less enthused about the jackass DM running the show who thinks TPKs are essential for realism and immersion, but I guess reloading exists.

How soon can I ditch the starting characters and create my own custom kill squad, and how much of the game am I missing out on if I do? Please tell me that at least one dev played D:OS2 and noticed that letting players pick their companion's class and build meant you could have companion stories *and* characters that didn't suck at the same time.

Merrill Grinch
May 21, 2001

infuriated by investments


Rookersh posted:

- Apparently this barely uses the Pathfinder ruleset? People are saying everything has too high of AC. I notice especially early on a lot of fights have a lot of missed swings. Tactics are super important though, you need to be charging casters/archers, you need to be sleeping chaff, etc etc. Abusing stuff like sleep/color spray is super helpful to get around the early game AC stuff and get a lot of hits off.

Part of it is the character builds. Amiri and Valerie both start with a -2 attack penalty when you get them due to poor equipment choices. Also, both are built around taking an Exotic Weapon feat...for the same weapon. It's like some of the characters were designed by committee.

New players just starting out: replace Amiri's oversized bastard sword with a greatsword until she gets some more base attack and Valerie's tower shield for a heavy shield until at least level 5.

bandits
Jun 7, 2018


Once you wrap your head around it, this is quite a fun - difficult - but fun game.

Companions are mechanically a bit of a mixed bag, and the start is very rough for casters. I second dropping to a Medium Shield for Valerie and giving Amiri a new weapon for the their lower levels. The AI for Regongar is suicidal, so you're best to micromanage until you can move him into Dragon Disciple for the stat bonuses. Octavia is really useful as an Arcane Trickster, but I do find there's a bit of overlap with the bard. And with the way the game has been written it's hard to justify not taking Linzi.

I've been playing a DEX-based Fighter / Sorcerer (planning to move into Eldritch Knight) so far which has been an enjoyable build - the fighter level helps immensely early game - but the lack of anyone really resilient outside of Valerie is very noticeable. The magus is a serious glass cannon at the moment. May be better off changing to a straight up Sorcerer, dropping Octavia and taking Amiri instead... or dropping the difficulty down.

Eddain
May 6, 2007


My first test character was an Eldritch Archer and I couldn't figure out how to make use of his ranged spell casting. So if I have it correct, Magus can do melee spellcasting where you can cast your spell in your offhand or on your weapon, and when you attack in melee range the spell triggers? On the Eldritch Archer info page it says instead of melee spellcasting they get ranged spellcasting, where they use your ranged weapon to cast their spells. But there's no visual indicator that it's working and I still only see the basic Magus melee spellcasting ability (which if I try to activate disables all my casting ability since I'm using a ranged weapon).

Trizzdog
May 5, 2014
Original Proprietor of Space Dank



SirFozzie posted:

One of my twitch.tv streaming friends is 15 minutes into a rant because he took advantage of a free resting place and got attacked by Viscount Smoulderburn.

So that's what happens when you go OH BOY FREE RESTING PLACE beside the corpse? Dang, I should've gotten spooped.

So far I've been Punchmaster Flex, the half-orc Scaled Fist (or whatever) who's intimidation roles are absolutely absurd and his one mission in life is to make those with pants poop them. When he becomes king, he will be sure to mandate pants for everyone. As long as it poops, it gets pants. ( I swear this isn't a fetish )

On a more serious note, designers of these kinds of games should really learn that giving you weird /over-challenging encounters that aren't suitable for the beginning when your team is poo poo and you don't have the (natural) tools to deal with them sucks. I luckily had burning hands for the infamous spider cave with the berries in it but I agree everyone should be mad about it.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


Can you still progress companion quests if you hire generics? As said before, Valerie sucks, and I'd like to get some actual front-line muscle before I go any further.

BurgerQuest
Mar 17, 2009



Appreciate that advice, just reached Oleg and was struggling initially.

Liking the game so far, the pace seems fine for me and I find myself paying attention to the combat log more than I have in other similar games.

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Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



Zodiac5000 posted:

I picked up this game and my initial review is as follows, for the four groups of people I see it mattering to:

People who don't know poo poo about 3rd edition DnD or Computer RPGs:
There is zero chance this game would convince them of the merits of either. They will hate this game. Avoid like it's plutonium.

People who know how computer based RPGs work but not familiar/interested in Pathfinder:
They will find the game horrifically poorly documented and lacking a lot of QoL stuff that comes from the modern design, plus questionable QA. Purchase in the future if it goes on a good sale and gets some QA patches, otherwise stick with something like Divinity 2 or Pillars 2, you can get better CRPGs for your money.

People who know Pathfinder but aren't super familiar with computer RPGs:
The game will be faithful to the source material, if somewhat clunky. The game is almost exactly what they played on the tabletop with some odd decisions regarding resting mechanics that make me want to never use wizards because gently caress having to rest more. (one way to solve for caster supremacy I guess, make players hate doing what they need to be good) Purchase if you have the patience to handle clunk, maybe wait a few weeks if you think you need less QA issues, but you wanted pathfinder, now you have it, so definitely buy this game at some point.

People who know both pathfinder and computer RPGs:
The resting mechanics will baffle you, not because you don't understand them, but because you'll be confused why this was choice was made at all. The combat is extremely swingy, like the beginning of Baldur's gate where a gibberling could tear your bhaalspawn a new rear end in a top hat (at least at the start, I'm only about level 4 so far). The storybook action sections are better than most games use of them, and this game *feels* a lot more like playing an actual tabletop RPG than many of the newer games I've played (looking at you PoE and Torment). You will desperately wish you could have the dungeon-be-gone mod from BG2 after doing your fourth reroll (of the ten you are going to do before you pick a character). It's a 'purchase now' if you really want a pathfinder game and have the patience to handle the jank and QA problems. 'Purchase in like a month' if you'll need a new RPG in your collection soon but you want some of the rough edges sanded down, and 'buy on sale' if you're neither here nor there on pathfinder but the idea of having a more tabletop-ey experience appeals to you.

Knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't have purchased the game this soon from a value-for-money standpoint. I'd probably belong to a 'purchase on sale' group, but I wanted a 'tabletop' experience and was willing to let the hunger override my good sense. I wont' call it bad value, but I won't call it a great deal either. It's not a terrible or bad game, and it's not really a great game either. It's probably best described as 'fine, but QA issues are real and the documentation is weak.'

As part of the second group I appreciate the advice and will take it. I hope it takes a very long time for your life to end and that it doesn't hurt

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