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chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Mailer posted:

I think I wound up looking up a map to find it and "discovered" it manually. Not being involved in the war at all seems like a massive trigger to miss. Did you miss the notification to meet with the swordlords that fires off the whole quest chain?

Yea..I never met any Swordlords at all. I finished Vordekaiís tomb and then basically just spun my wheels exploring and grabbing events in my capital. I wonder if the issue is I have ďtake 20Ē enabled? Is it possible Iíve been accidentally skipping important events by evading enemies on the world map?

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Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


There are several plot-relevant distractions on the road, but I don't think the option came up to evade them. I evaded everything I could the entire run (unmodded) and it only failed ~10 times with all failures resulting in normal combat. If you were in your capital I'm not sure how you managed to miss it but it's probably a bug. Google says other people have experienced Hour of Rage not firing but I haven't seen a smoking gun.

This is why I have like 200 saves for one run.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



So looking at a Pathfinder walkthrough it looks like I missed the entire intro text crawl from Linzi that starts the chapter with the barbarian invasion, never met Gwart, never unlocked the Flintlock Grassland area, and absolutely never had a meeting with the leaders/swordlords of Restov. Weird!

Edit: Found the issue! Apparently I was supposed to talk to Varn a second time after killing Vordekai. I'd killed Vord, talk to Varn but he didn't say anything, then smashed the jars. Then I went out of the dungeon the long way because I didn't even notice the new exit. I've gone back to do that and I got the chapter to start properly, except I've already beaten the end of it. We'll see how this goes!

chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 02:38 on May 18, 2020

Drakes
Jul 18, 2007

Why my bullets no hit?

Avalerion posted:

Pillars of eternity 1/2.

Picked up PoE1, while its not bad its not really roping me in like kingmaker. I'm just feeling kingmaker spoiled me with its quality of life features and it kind of gets you rolling with a bantery party asap.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Drakes posted:

Picked up PoE1, while its not bad its not really roping me in like kingmaker. I'm just feeling kingmaker spoiled me with its quality of life features and it kind of gets you rolling with a bantery party asap.

Weird...quality of life-wise I think PoE dominates all over Pathfinder, though I greatly enjoy both.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

Drakes posted:

Picked up PoE1, while its not bad its not really roping me in like kingmaker. I'm just feeling kingmaker spoiled me with its quality of life features and it kind of gets you rolling with a bantery party asap.

QoL... in Pathfinder?

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010



Drakes posted:

Picked up PoE1, while its not bad its not really roping me in like kingmaker. I'm just feeling kingmaker spoiled me with its quality of life features and it kind of gets you rolling with a bantery party asap.

PoE1's base content is incredibly dry. When it first came out I found it fairly disappointing. The only compelling bit was Od Nua, which is admittedly pretty great if you're into a big, diverse dungeon crawl with a solid combat system. Thankfully the DLC and post-release additions are leagues above the main storyline and with those added I think it's a good game.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


PoE1's base game story is better than what both the DLC and PoE2 bring to the table.
If you can get into it, and I can see why that is hard for so many people because it really is dry.


steinrokkan posted:

QoL... in Pathfinder?
Yeah, when it comes to QoL Kingmaker is a step backwards compared not only to PoE but most of the bigger RPGs released from NWN2 onwards.

Drakes
Jul 18, 2007

Why my bullets no hit?

steinrokkan posted:

QoL... in Pathfinder?

Not needing to be in stealth mode to make perception checks. Able to click on map to move to place. Showing acquired items in the chat/combat log. Character stats on pages instead of scrolling down a log. Global looting on map exit. Probably some others I can't think right off.

Although some design choices in kingmaker I really enjoy. Like you're basically thrown a party with chit-chat and banter right after the tutorial. Or watching the party chill while they're camping.

Drakes fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 19, 2020

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


Those are all legit, though the perception check thing did get fixed for PoE2. It's definitely a bit more BG1 in forming the party as you go, though that will only last a handful of maps until you're full. The tone is super serious high fantasy (PoE2 vastly improves this) and no RPG I can think of has the banter of Pathfinder due to the resting segments. Everyone has a Valerie-grade dramatic/sad backstory without a Linzi or Nok Nok to break it up.

(Disclaimer: I haven't played the DLC yet)

When it comes to QoL features I wouldn't exactly put Kingmaker over PoE1, though. Yeah, you don't have to scroll for stats but there's like five tabs plus the general stats pane. PoE had a hard limit on camping and balanced around that, whereas I needed to break out a save editor when I was screwed in the troll fort without sufficient camping supplies. PoE has progressive wounded states to eventually force a rest but I don't get half my stats drained every other fight. This is all on top of the assumed knowledge that you've earned your PhD in Pathfinder ahead of time so you know how to make it all work.

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


Mailer posted:

Everyone has a Valerie-grade dramatic/sad backstory without a Linzi or Nok Nok to break it up.

Overstated a little IMO. The bard Aumaua is pretty chill, and the druid (that, admittedly you get very late) is pretty much all comic relief. The dorf archer is also pretty sassy, I really liked her.

mitochondritom
Oct 3, 2010


I don't get that at all, I'm a huge fan of Pillars and itching for more have recently started Kingmaker and I find the whole thing a mess relative to Pillars 1. I've experienced no chill party banter, just edgy ~ undead elves and ~ nihilist priest and a kill-all-men noble savage barbarian. All the NPCs are dry as anything relative to the absolute generic plot with neon blue haired gnome cartoon villain. It's easily the worst opening impression of all the infinity engine a like games.

Hryme
Nov 4, 2009


It is just different tastes. I found PoE to have a depressing mood and could not enjoy it. Especially the first game. Kingmaker is lighter and doesn't take itself so seriously so I prefer it.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010
Bench press was, is and will never be a great chest builder.

Hryme posted:

It is just different tastes. I found PoE to have a depressing mood and could not enjoy it. Especially the first game. Kingmaker is lighter and doesn't take itself so seriously so I prefer it.

Pillars is just a relentlessly miserable game. It's a nihilist's wet dream.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Pillars 1 and 2 are my favorite IE style games and I adore them. Theyíre both some very gorgeous games art-wise. I wish Pathfinder had gone in the hand-painted background route as well.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

sassassin posted:

Pillars is just a relentlessly miserable game. It's a nihilist's wet dream.

Yeah, it's pretty great.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


chaosapiant posted:

Pillars 1 and 2 are my favorite IE style games and I adore them. They’re both some very gorgeous games art-wise. I wish Pathfinder had gone in the hand-painted background route as well.

Pathfinder having 3D everything but not allowing camera rotation is a weird choice. Unlocking rotation through a mod made turn-based combat more satisfying.

There are times in PoE 1's RTwP when I'm paused and wish I could rotate the camera to get a clearer view of the battle. They made improvements in 2 by fixing the effects to obscure less.

But I completely agree with how nice PoE's backgrounds look. I like Pathfinder's maps too, though.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

Pathfinder recycles far too many maps for how small and basic many of them are, imo.

Random Hajile
Aug 25, 2003



Anyone care to critique a main character build I'm considering going with? Must-have spell recommendations would also be welcome.

Half-Orc Two-Handed Fighter(4)/Sacred Huntsman(16)
Diety: Erastil, Community Domain

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 10

Lv1 - 2HF - Exotic Weapon: Fauchard, Combat Reflexes
Lv2 - SH - Leopard Animal Companion
Lv3 - SH - Combat Expertise
Lv4 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat (Seize the Moment)
Lv5 - SH - Trip
Lv6 - 2HF - Greater Trip
Lv7 - 2HF - Power Attack
Lv8 - 2HF - STR+1, Cleave
Lv9 - SH - Boon Companion
Lv10 - SH - Teamwork Feat (Outflank)
Lv11 - SH - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lv12 - SH - STR+1
Lv13 - SH - Cleaving Finish, Teamwork Feat(Precise Strike)
Lv14 - SH -
Lv15 - SH - Hammer the Gap
Lv16 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat(Tandem Trip)
Lv17 - SH - Dazzling Display
Lv18 - SH -
Lv19 - SH - Dreadful Carnage, Teamwork Feat(Back to Back?)
Lv20 - SH - WIS+1

The plan is to be a second-row reach weapon rear end in a top hat that grants attacks of opportunity to everyone with Greater Trip, and to my animal companion and any allies I slap teamwork feats onto with Improved Critical. The four levels of 2-Handed Fighter get me some needed bonus feats and just enough BAB to hit 4 attacks per round while still having enough Sacred Huntmaster levels to get level 6 spells. I'm not 100% sure I'll qualify for Seize the Moment at level 4, in which case I'll move Precise Strike up there and the other teamwork feats down a notch.

I'm sure there'd be better races if I wanted to go full munchkin, but I feel like being a greenskin.

Random Hajile fucked around with this message at 22:39 on May 20, 2020

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Random Hajile posted:

Anyone care to critique a main character build I'm considering going with? Must-have spell recommendations would also be welcome.

Half-Orc Two-Handed Fighter(4)/Sacred Huntsman(16)
Diety: Erastil, Community Domain

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 10

Lv1 - 2HF - Exotic Weapon: Fauchard, Combat Reflexes
Lv2 - SH - Leopard Animal Companion
Lv3 - SH - Combat Expertise
Lv4 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat (Seize the Moment)
Lv5 - SH - Trip
Lv6 - 2HF - Greater Trip
Lv7 - 2HF - Power Attack
Lv8 - 2HF - STR+1, Cleave
Lv9 - SH - Boon Companion
Lv10 - SH - Teamwork Feat (Outflank)
Lv11 - SH - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lv12 - SH - STR+1
Lv13 - SH - Cleaving Finish, Teamwork Feat(Precise Strike)
Lv14 - SH -
Lv15 - SH - Hammer the Gap
Lv16 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat(Tandem Trip)
Lv17 - SH - Dazzling Display
Lv18 - SH -
Lv19 - SH - Dreadful Carnage, Teamwork Feat(Back to Back?)
Lv20 - SH - WIS+1

The plan is to be a second-row reach weapon rear end in a top hat that grants attacks of opportunity to everyone with Greater Trip, and to my animal companion and any allies I slap teamwork feats onto with Improved Critical. The four levels of 2-Handed Fighter get me some needed bonus feats and just enough BAB to hit 4 attacks per round while still having enough Sacred Huntmaster levels to get level 6 spells. I'm not 100% sure I'll qualify for Seize the Moment at level 4, in which case I'll move Precise Strike up there and the other teamwork feats down a notch.

I'm sure there'd be better races if I wanted to go full munchkin, but I feel like being a greenskin.

Precise strike is kinda meh. Hammer the gap is useless. Shake it off is better value. Still, compared to back to back or the spellcaster teamwork feats, might as well. Keep seize the moment. For learning a non simple reach weapon and getting weapon focus, I'd say 2 levels of fighter would be enough. You lose some bab, but if you won't go up to 7-8 levels of TH fighter, I think there is no point going further. You may also consider mad dog barbarian. You get pet levels (no need for boon companion), you get fast movement/uncanny dodge and a rage pool when you could really use a little boost(Inquisitors rarely cast spells during a battle anyway, you mostly buff yourself and or throw a couple decent CC ones at the very start). 2-4 levels of barb is actually a very strong dip.
Also, if you are a reach guy fighting from backline (and with enlrage, having even greater reach), combat expertise is pointless. If you had Int 13 for that, take it off . If Half-orc is not a must for you, powrgaming solution could be hunger spawn tiefling(+2 str, +2 Wis, -2 cha). Just for reference's sake.
I guess you get the trip feats because you are also planning on Mastery for endgame(hence the Fauchard instead of a glaive)? If yes, keep at it, otherwise forget them.
Finally, try to squeeze blind fight for convenience's sake, unless you are certain you can cover the immunities it offers with spells.

All in all, it's pretty solid . Sacred huntmaster 16 of Erastil would work with any martial dip (if you wanted to tank, you could go for monk unarmored and use combat expertise there with crane style, or you could go for 4 levels of vivi for other examples. Or even stalwart defender).

JamMasterJim fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 20, 2020

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010
Bench press was, is and will never be a great chest builder.

JamMasterJim posted:

Also, if you are a reach guy fighting from backline (and with enlrage, having even greater reach), combat expertise is pointless. If you had Int 13 for that, take it off .

Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Tripping.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


sassassin posted:

Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Tripping.

Right, I usually rely on auto-trip features than the actual maneuver and forgot that requirement.

Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.

College Slice

Did they ever change the way Trip works in PF:K? Back when I played it, Trip was a standard action, meaning you couldn't actually get multiple trips through your iterative attacks (even if you selected autocast) and the game wouldn't intelligently substitute back and forth (i.e, not attempting to Trip prone opponents and throwing out regular attacks instead).

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006


The biggest thing Pathfinder lacks that PoE has is a doubletime button. Holy heck that thing is so nice.

Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

I loved PoE1, couldn't manage to keep that love through the White March expansions, and couldn't get into PoE2 at all.

Once they nerfed my Sneak Attack blunderbuss rogues, I lost hope for the future.

Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

Random Hajile posted:

Anyone care to critique a main character build I'm considering going with? Must-have spell recommendations would also be welcome.

Half-Orc Two-Handed Fighter(4)/Sacred Huntsman(16)
Diety: Erastil, Community Domain

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 10

Lv1 - 2HF - Exotic Weapon: Fauchard, Combat Reflexes
Lv2 - SH - Leopard Animal Companion
Lv3 - SH - Combat Expertise
Lv4 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat (Seize the Moment)
Lv5 - SH - Trip
Lv6 - 2HF - Greater Trip
Lv7 - 2HF - Power Attack
Lv8 - 2HF - STR+1, Cleave
Lv9 - SH - Boon Companion
Lv10 - SH - Teamwork Feat (Outflank)
Lv11 - SH - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lv12 - SH - STR+1
Lv13 - SH - Cleaving Finish, Teamwork Feat(Precise Strike)
Lv14 - SH -
Lv15 - SH - Hammer the Gap
Lv16 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat(Tandem Trip)
Lv17 - SH - Dazzling Display
Lv18 - SH -
Lv19 - SH - Dreadful Carnage, Teamwork Feat(Back to Back?)
Lv20 - SH - WIS+1

The plan is to be a second-row reach weapon rear end in a top hat that grants attacks of opportunity to everyone with Greater Trip, and to my animal companion and any allies I slap teamwork feats onto with Improved Critical. The four levels of 2-Handed Fighter get me some needed bonus feats and just enough BAB to hit 4 attacks per round while still having enough Sacred Huntmaster levels to get level 6 spells. I'm not 100% sure I'll qualify for Seize the Moment at level 4, in which case I'll move Precise Strike up there and the other teamwork feats down a notch.

I'm sure there'd be better races if I wanted to go full munchkin, but I feel like being a greenskin.

I'd move Outflank way up in priority. It's a powerful feat as long as you have at least one other teammate in melee (and since you have an animal companion that shares your teamwork feats you always have one).

I don't see your alignment but if you're lawful a one level dip into Traditional Monk may be more useful for you than a 4th level of fighter.

Level 1: Remove Fear
Level 2: Lesser Restoration, Effortless Armor
Level 3: Resist Energy Communal, Delay Poison Communal
Level 4: Protection from Energy Communal, Restoration
Level 6: Heal

Those are useful spells (though easily covered by companions).

Random Hajile
Aug 25, 2003



Thanks for all the advice. I'll go with a 2 Two-Handed Fighter, 2 Barbarian, 16 Huntsman build thanks to your input.

Lv1 - 2HF - Exotic Weapon: Fauchard, Combat Reflexes
Lv2 - 2HF - Power Attack
Lv3 - SH - Leopard Animal Companion, Cleave
Lv4 - SH - STR+1,
Lv5 - SH - Cleaving Finish
Lv6 - SH - Teamwork Feat (Outflank)
Lv7 - Barb - Blind Fight
Lv8 - Barb - STR+1
Lv9 - SH - Boon Companion
Lv10 - SH - Teamwork Feat (Seize the Moment)
Lv11 - SH - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lv12 - SH - STR+1
Lv13 - SH - Weapon Focus(Fauchard), Teamwork Feat(Shake it Off)
Lv14 - SH -
Lv15 - SH - Dazzling Display
Lv16 - SH - STR+1, Teamwork Feat(Precise Strike)
Lv17 - SH - Dreadful Carnage
Lv18 - SH -
Lv19 - SH - Intimidating Prowess or Conrugon Smash?, Teamwork Feat(Back to Back?)
Lv20 - SH - WIS+1

I shifted the 2nd level of two-handed fighter up so I'd qualify for Outflank much sooner. I also failed to notice that Dazzling Display/Dreadful Carnage require a weapon focus, so I put that in there. I also decided to leave the tripping to my cat and/or party members /w auto-trip since Olesh suggested Greater Trip may not be as useful as it appeared. This also makes it more of a Serpent Prince build than a Mastery one.

Unfortunately Mad Dog doesn't give Uncanny Dodge, or I would have gone with that and skipped Boon Companion, but I figure that and a rage power were worth a Boon Companion to make up for the extra two levels on non-pet-growth.

Random Hajile fucked around with this message at 02:21 on May 21, 2020

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


Kobal2 posted:

Overstated a little IMO. The bard Aumaua is pretty chill, and the druid (that, admittedly you get very late) is pretty much all comic relief. The dorf archer is also pretty sassy, I really liked her.

You crush the bard's dreams, the druid got booted because he changed into a form that other druids didn't like, and the dwarf is on a multi-year quest to track down the displaced soul of a dead leader that ends relatively poorly. They're not quoting emo poetry while walking around or anything but the tone is way more serious. I like both games, but I can see how people who want something with a bit more punch wouldn't be down with PoE1.


mitochondritom posted:

I've experienced no chill party banter, just edgy ~ undead elves and ~ nihilist priest and a kill-all-men noble savage barbarian.

Linzi provides the ridiculously positive cheer and Nok Nok is played for comedy. Also Harrim and Amiri have explicit reasons for their behavior that you discover as part of their companion quest. It's not chill so much as it is colorful.

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


Funniest thing about Amiri's story is that even the other barbarian tribes almost all universally go "oh THOSE shitbag losers?" whenever her tribe comes up in conversation

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


Random Hajile posted:

Thanks for all the advice. I'll go with a 2 Two-Handed Fighter, 2 Barbarian, 16 Huntsman build thanks to your input.

I shifted the 2nd level of two-handed fighter up so I'd qualify for Outflank much sooner. I also failed to notice that Dazzling Display/Dreadful Carnage require a weapon focus, so I put that in there. I also decided to leave the tripping to my cat and/or party members /w auto-trip since Olesh suggested Greater Trip may not be as useful as it appeared. This also makes it more of a Serpent Prince build than a Mastery one.

Unfortunately Mad Dog doesn't give Uncanny Dodge, or I would have gone with that and skipped Boon Companion, but I figure that and a rage power were worth a Boon Companion to make up for the extra two levels on non-pet-growth.

I believe you can only get 1 free AOO from critting per round, so Sieze the Moment is useless if you have the superior Outflank. Keep Combat Reflexes though, it's a must have for melee.
If you are doing Dazzling/Conrugon Smash getting Shatter Defenses in there is a really sweet perk. It's not just for sneak attacking as it gives you flat footed AC to hit which can be amazing. That looks like a solid build though.

There is one combo you could do with that first trip build, if you go Tiefling/Motherless for the Bite attack, you can wear the White Wolf cloak and get trips to trigger off your bites.
This does force you into short range for the bite, but can be hilariously effective at putting things on the ground.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Iím at the part in the story where I have a proper capital city and game just keeps being more awesome. Couldnít believe my young silver headed advisor betrayed me!

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


chaosapiant posted:

Iím at the part in the story where I have a proper capital city and game just keeps being more awesome. Couldnít believe my young silver headed advisor betrayed me!

You mean the guy that screams 'I'm a chaotic asshat'? Yeah, never saw that coming when he betrayed me either.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Kalas posted:

You mean the guy that screams 'I'm a chaotic asshat'? Yeah, never saw that coming when he betrayed me either.

I didnít see the betrayal coming when I hired him in the beginning, but that dude was so loving shady the whole time he was an advisor. I ignored his lovely advice so much he quit the job and just stood around my throne room.

How are the other two advisors? The Aldori and Surtova folks?

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


chaosapiant posted:

I didnít see the betrayal coming when I hired him in the beginning, but that dude was so loving shady the whole time he was an advisor. I ignored his lovely advice so much he quit the job and just stood around my throne room.

How are the other two advisors? The Aldori and Surtova folks?

I liked Surtova a lot, she was no-nonsense. She didn't mind breaking eggs when they needed it, but wasn't malicious. I haven't tried the Aldori orc guy.

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


chaosapiant posted:

I didnít see the betrayal coming when I hired him in the beginning, but that dude was so loving shady the whole time he was an advisor. I ignored his lovely advice so much he quit the job and just stood around my throne room.

How are the other two advisors? The Aldori and Surtova folks?

Both Amiri and Reg are solid generals so the Aldori is pretty superfluous, Surtova granny is a councilor which is a much more valued position. Neutral alignment and leans toward supporting the merchant and noble class over the commonfolk. Ironically the true neutral option is the batshit crazy priestess since her survival of the fittest Senator Armstrong crap doesn't discriminate based on social status

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies



The aldori is a very by the book general with an especially large focus in maintaining the army's soldiers. He wants actions that keep soldiers healthy and hearty, and hates when you use any options that would be a lot of risk to them (as distractions or bait or etc).

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


Regongar is my favorite general. He favors arcane options which is a super useful kingdom stat to get up ASAP.

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat


Surtova is great. She's my pick these days every time for replays because she fills a hard to fill slot and is just pleasant to have to interact with compared to some of these other maniacs.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



What percentage would one say Iím in the game if I just received a crown?

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Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

95%? You're end game.

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