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chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



According to some walkthroughs I looked at, it looks like I still have three or four chapters left. Are they all super quick?

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grah
Jul 26, 2007
brainsss

Nap Ghost

After you get the crown you have 2 pretty major arcs left, I think 95% is an overstatement, but you're definitely in the last third of the game.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


There are a few major chapters left, as well as some side content and the mandatory backer quest everybody loves.
How long the last chapter takes depends on how you approach it, but it's not short.
Saying you're in the final third seems about accurate. You're nowhere close to 95%.

Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

Sorry, I got confused with another event.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


Hypocrisy posted:

Sorry, I got confused with another event.
Oh, the First Crown? Totally forgot about that thing and wondered how you'd think chaosapiant was nearly done.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



What is the max level a party of six can expect to reach by end game? I’m guessing 16-17?

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


chaosapiant posted:

What is the max level a party of six can expect to reach by end game? I’m guessing 16-17?

If you siphon the high exp skill checks into your MC you can get them to lv 20 before endgame. Endgame levels all your party members to your MC's level if you have exp share on so everyone hits it at the same time. Otherwise you usually get to 18-19 and just barely sniff 20 by the very very end

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

Sugartime Jones

KittyEmpress posted:

The aldori is a very by the book general with an especially large focus in maintaining the army's soldiers. He wants actions that keep soldiers healthy and hearty, and hates when you use any options that would be a lot of risk to them (as distractions or bait or etc).

Pretty far into my run taking him (decided to go pure Aldori supporter this run, though given how long this thing is I may not get another run in given how long this one is taking yeesh). He's pretty straightforward/professional and interacts well with my NG magus's way of doing things, I was rather concerned that Amiri and Reg were both kind of noted as being sort of bloodthirsty. Admittedly I kind of dropped the kingdom stuff down to minimums with Bag of Tricks since it wound up being less fun playing Pathfinder Time Manager than I hoped. I kind of wound up probably going too far trimming the time needed since I wind up skipping a lot of days to get to the next bit by the point I'm at Pitax War, but at least I don't feel like I'm going to miss content gated behind time keeping. I do rather hope the next game won't have that aspect at least.

Overall it's been a pretty fun game with the actual non-kingdom gameplay though. I probably couldn't handle all the clever optimizing people talk about (one of the things that kept me out of Pathfinder 1E to begin with, too much drat crap to keep track of in character creation and leveling) but since I'm not playing high level difficulty my characters are doing fine despite not knowing the clever tricks to make them awesome by taking various dips into particular classes or particular feats or whatnot. About my only clever "tricks" are the fun I'm having with Octavia now that I reached Arcane Trickster 10 and can open fights with an AOE from stealth that takes out most of the little crap, my main magus doing entirely too much nasty damage with touch spells, and of course Nok-Nok. Dear GOD Nok-Nok is insane. I haven't found any better kukris than the ones I found with him really and given my lack of optimization I expect his attack bonus could be higher (though every melee character in my game has Outflank which helps there), but even without that he is a buzzsaw against enemies, especially since I often take him and Olivia and mass fire with both for maximum sneak attack damage. It's hilarious how many enemies get overkilled into gibbing when he goes to work on them. I am somewhat annoyed how the video game rules vary from the tabletop with little warning though. I didn't realize until I read the recent discussion that concealment effects weren't affected by Truesight and the like, which rather annoys me given several of my spell choices. Also rather annoyed by whoever designed the Captor in Tenebrous Depths to cast a super-extended Ice Prison on my guys making them constantly take damage I had no way to remove because apparently Break Enchantment and Dispel Magic won't remove the drat thing even if Freedom of Movement kept it from sticking me in place. Had to run upstairs and rest to remove it because the geniuses ensured it had about a 20 min duration unless you made a Strength check none of my guys could. Enemy debuffs should NOT last that long unless there's a way to remove them post-battle, I would have been pissed to lose characters that way.

The actual plot of the game is pretty good really. I recently got a chance to look at the original Kingmaker adventures and I was kind of pleased how much better a job the game did tying the module stories more tightly together. Tartuk in particular was much more interesting when instead of being a random gnome turned into a kobold, he was a character you already were introduced to and played downright tragically by the time he goes down. If only your troll/kobold nation weren't complete bastards to my people I'd have let you guys coexist, as is thank God they planned well enough to make Jubilost pop up with his acid bombs right when I had to kill your drat fire-resistant troll buddies. Though taking the original adventures as a guide can sure backfire, in the original adventure Ithuliak's Lair is empty because the dragon moved on to be an enemy in the final module I believe, boy did I nearly slaughter myself in this game charging in thinking the kobolds I saw were the only enemies present until I saw the big red circle in time to skid to a halt and frantically look for the Communal Protection from Acid spell. Most of the NPCs aren't hugely deep characters but the game does an excellent job playing with what's there, keeps an illusion of depth there at least. Appropriately enough they rather feel exactly what most pre-written module characters are in the hands of a good DM, kind of written as a semi-archetype but the guy running it stretches it out some with their performance. I've been rather please with how their individual side quests have played out, particularly since the party members generally have a few errors of their own they wind up having to acknowledge in some way rather than being perfectly in the right the whole time.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


MadDogMike posted:

I haven't found any better kukris than the ones I found with him really

There's another set, which is just better version of the set you get initially iirc. Specialization is one thing I hate across every one of these IE-inspired games. Unless this is your Xth playthrough weapon specialization is just gambling on the devs having put in a good magic weapon of the type you picked.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Mailer posted:

There's another set, which is just better version of the set you get initially iirc. Specialization is one thing I hate across every one of these IE-inspired games. Unless this is your Xth playthrough weapon specialization is just gambling on the devs having put in a good magic weapon of the type you picked.

It'd be nice if the merchants stored at least generic +1-+4 variants of all weapon types (maybe with generic buffs) as you progress the plot and kingdom stats. That is what they did with the scroll seller they added later on. Hopefully wrath has slightly better itemization.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Specialization doesn’t bother me too much since the bonuses aren’t huge. But a rudimentary crafting/enchanting system would’ve gone a long way to making it work and be more balanced.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Honestly, the Weapon Specialization feat is a trap; +2 damage per hit is nothing. Weapon Focus is better, but still more useful as a stepping-stone than for its own sake.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



MadDogMike posted:


Also rather annoyed by whoever designed the Captor in Tenebrous Depths to cast a super-extended Ice Prison on my guys making them constantly take damage I had no way to remove because apparently Break Enchantment and Dispel Magic won't remove the drat thing even if Freedom of Movement kept it from sticking me in place.

Just going to note here that Icy Prison didn't need extending or whatever, because its base duration is 1 minute/level. As for the damage, it's cold damage so just slapping on a resist energy(cold) completely stops that. As for spells to get rid of it: Break Enchantment shouldn't work because Icy Prison is an Evocation spell - BE only hits Enchantment, Transmutation, and curse effects (how it's actually programmed in-game I have no clue); Dispel Magic should work, but it's a caster level check so you might be reliably failing that depending on what the difference in CL between the enemy and you is. If DM isn't even getting a check in the combat log though then that is a bug, yes.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


Lord Koth posted:

Just going to note here that Icy Prison didn't need extending or whatever, because its base duration is 1 minute/level. As for the damage, it's cold damage so just slapping on a resist energy(cold) completely stops that. As for spells to get rid of it: Break Enchantment shouldn't work because Icy Prison is an Evocation spell - BE only hits Enchantment, Transmutation, and curse effects (how it's actually programmed in-game I have no clue); Dispel Magic should work, but it's a caster level check so you might be reliably failing that depending on what the difference in CL between the enemy and you is. If DM isn't even getting a check in the combat log though then that is a bug, yes.

In tabletop you would also be able to just break the ice off (it has no hardness and 3 HP per caster level so this isn't actually super hard, though if you fail the save and get encased someone will have to do it for you - the raw Strength check to shatter it from inside is much harder) but if there's a button to punch it off in Kingmaker I couldn't find it.

Prism fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 24, 2020

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

Sugartime Jones

Prism posted:

In tabletop you would also be able to just break the ice off (it has no hardness and 3 HP per caster level so this isn't actually super hard, though if you fail the save and get encased someone will have to do it for you - the raw Strength check to shatter it from inside is much harder) but if there's a button to punch it off in Kingmaker I couldn't find it.

Looked like it auto-tried a personal Strength check and did the damage on a fail each round (though even Valerie with her ridiculous Str bonus wasn't breaking the drat thing, so no one else had a prayer). I double checked the SRD and it looks like the duration is just them pulling the one from tabletop, so I guess I blame the writers of Ultimate Magic for that one (at least they skipped the bit about it dropping a layer of ice that was 1 inch/level of the caster, having almost two feet of ice around my characters would have been just silly). Don't know why Dispel Magic failed so badly, on double check it seems like it defaulted to dispelling my buffs instead (which given the spell is supposed to target the spell with the highest DCs first in tabletop is an annoying change).

Zurai posted:

Honestly, the Weapon Specialization feat is a trap; +2 damage per hit is nothing. Weapon Focus is better, but still more useful as a stepping-stone than for its own sake.

Yeah, starting to regret taking it on several characters and committing to weapons before knowing what was available, although for some of them it was difficulty deciding decent enough feats to use anyway instead since, y'know, bad at optimizing. I wound up using one of my free respects on Reg to swap him from scimitar to longsword when I got Perfection (it was just too good an upgrade for him compared to the only equivalent scimitar I saw), though honestly as a magus myself I barely use him compared to Octavia who's pretty much my arcane caster by default since I went touch/buff spell crazy on my main. I went with dueling sword on my main for theme more than optimization, although since I just got Bloodhound I can't exactly regret that (I was a bit irked the Lich who had the blade didn't react to Feeblemind; is that immunity from being undead I'm forgetting? I saw him fail the save, thought it would skip that if immune).

Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.

College Slice

MadDogMike posted:

Looked like it auto-tried a personal Strength check and did the damage on a fail each round (though even Valerie with her ridiculous Str bonus wasn't breaking the drat thing, so no one else had a prayer). I double checked the SRD and it looks like the duration is just them pulling the one from tabletop, so I guess I blame the writers of Ultimate Magic for that one (at least they skipped the bit about it dropping a layer of ice that was 1 inch/level of the caster, having almost two feet of ice around my characters would have been just silly). Don't know why Dispel Magic failed so badly, on double check it seems like it defaulted to dispelling my buffs instead (which given the spell is supposed to target the spell with the highest DCs first in tabletop is an annoying change).

A generic "targeted" Dispel Magic on a creature is supposed to pick the spell with the highest caster level first; if your buffs are cast at a higher level, then they'd be first on the chopping block. Normally, in the tabletop, you can choose to attempt to dispel a specific spell (which means you aren't at risk of dispelling anything but the effect you want to remove), but PF:K doesn't support that, rendering Dispel Magic somewhat less than useful at removing debuffs from your own people (since your own buffs are likely to have a higher caster level than enemy debuffs).

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


MadDogMike posted:

Looked like it auto-tried a personal Strength check and did the damage on a fail each round (though even Valerie with her ridiculous Str bonus wasn't breaking the drat thing, so no one else had a prayer). I double checked the SRD and it looks like the duration is just them pulling the one from tabletop, so I guess I blame the writers of Ultimate Magic for that one (at least they skipped the bit about it dropping a layer of ice that was 1 inch/level of the caster, having almost two feet of ice around my characters would have been just silly). Don't know why Dispel Magic failed so badly, on double check it seems like it defaulted to dispelling my buffs instead (which given the spell is supposed to target the spell with the highest DCs first in tabletop is an annoying change).


Yeah, starting to regret taking it on several characters and committing to weapons before knowing what was available, although for some of them it was difficulty deciding decent enough feats to use anyway instead since, y'know, bad at optimizing. I wound up using one of my free respects on Reg to swap him from scimitar to longsword when I got Perfection (it was just too good an upgrade for him compared to the only equivalent scimitar I saw), though honestly as a magus myself I barely use him compared to Octavia who's pretty much my arcane caster by default since I went touch/buff spell crazy on my main. I went with dueling sword on my main for theme more than optimization, although since I just got Bloodhound I can't exactly regret that (I was a bit irked the Lich who had the blade didn't react to Feeblemind; is that immunity from being undead I'm forgetting? I saw him fail the save, thought it would skip that if immune).

An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.

There's a lot more, but that's off the pathfinder SRD.

Lichs are annoying as hell to deal with because they will layer on a pile of buffs that will cover any leftover weaknesses. Seamantle is annoying.

The funny part is it's entirely possible to solo that lich as a level 8 monk, arcane caster or divine class that gets access to the travel domain. It just takes the right item and a way to get in and out quickly.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Having just seen his lair of “shrines”, I’ve decided Nok-Nok is the best monster-race NPC since Deekin, perhaps better.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


He so desperately wants to be a hero and tries his best despite not really getting it. His alignment really isn't correct, but who cares because he's adorable.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Yea I notice that all the evil characters are pretty ok. Regongar doesn’t bitch and moan about saving some slaves, Nok-Nok is adorable, The Red Eyed Demon Twin is a bit self serving but doesn’t seem evil. Only Jaethal seems to be batshit crazy evil. I never got Tartuk so I can’t speak for him.

KNR
May 3, 2009


I feel Nok-Kok's alignment is fine, he basically never shows any empathy or anything, it's just that his entirely selfish ambition is to be seen as a hero.

Reg does in fact get shifted to neutral for saving the slaves over revenge.

Jaethal is pure evil but I liked that the good ending to her questline doesn't involve redeeming her or anything, just pitting her vanity against her ambition.

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


chaosapiant posted:

Yea I notice that all the evil characters are pretty ok. Regongar doesn’t bitch and moan about saving some slaves, Nok-Nok is adorable, The Red Eyed Demon Twin is a bit self serving but doesn’t seem evil. Only Jaethal seems to be batshit crazy evil. I never got Tartuk so I can’t speak for him.

Have you reached Kaessi's quest ? 'cause hum, Demon Twin is kind of a monster akshully.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Kobal2 posted:

Have you reached Kaessi's quest ? 'cause hum, Demon Twin is kind of a monster akshully.

I reached a part of it. I saved the Sweet Tooths. Haven’t seen the next follow up yet.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

Couple of random things from the latest Paizo email.

The text for the 5th Edition and PF2 conversion of Kingmaker is in their hands now, and they're just ordering art and all the stuff for around it. Still will be several months, but it's getting closer.

And regarding Pathfinder:Kingmaker and/or Wrath of the Righteous:

"PS—Fans of the Pathfinder: Kingmaker CRPG adaptation from our friends at Owlcat Games should make sure to follow the game’s publisher, Deep Silver, on social media for some exciting upcoming announcements about the future of the game, especially around IGN’s Summer of Gaming show in early June. That’s all we’re allowed to say at this point, but we’ll have more to report soon!

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


chaosapiant posted:

I reached a part of it. I saved the Sweet Tooths. Haven’t seen the next follow up yet.

That's what I was talking about. Letting some ancient hellmonster loose on some unsuspecting, happy-go lucky idiots because "hey, that way *I'm* safe !" strikes me as p. goddamn evil.

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chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Kobal2 posted:

That's what I was talking about. Letting some ancient hellmonster loose on some unsuspecting, happy-go lucky idiots because "hey, that way *I'm* safe !" strikes me as p. goddamn evil.

It’s definitely self serving and falls on the spectrum of evil, but I don’t see it as diabolical. It’s self preservation above all else. Compare that with someone like Irenicus, Sarevok, Jaethal where hurting others is for more power.

But in general, for an evil party member, all but Jaethal are pleasant enough to be around. I love how the entire party ribs on her constantly if she’s in the group. “Ew, stay away you gross dead woman!” Is basically everyone’s tone with her and it’s great!

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