Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Roadie posted:

Re: Mythic Vital Strike, in the tabletop any character that gets access to the 3rd-tier mythic ability Fleet Warrior doesn't need to even bother with Vital Strike stuff, though I don't know if it's been included in the bideo jame.

That really doesn't get around one of the key advantages, which is that you deal your full normal attack sequence damage in a single hit and thus use your highest attack modifier rather than it being spread out over the -5/-10/-15 attacks; also presumably ignoring the additional Power Attack penalty via Furious Focus. But again, a normal full attacking build still works fine, and is certainly less fiddly (and far less feat intensive).

Honestly, one of the real absurdities of Mythic VS on the tabletop was just that it was an always on ability. As opposed to, say, Mythic TWF where you had to pay a Mythic power point to even activate it at all, and said benefit only lasted your tier in rounds. Because "deals quadruple damage as a single hit" was apparently considered less powerful than "+2 to hit." Or something. Thankfully there is no power pool here, so all those activation needed feats just became always on as well.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

So I am thinking of putting BG3 aside for awhile, at least until they update with some more content/changes. And I am thinking of going back into the Wrath alpha.

Kind of want to try out the Mythic Vital Strike. Thinking Two-Handed Fighter with that Wide Sweep scythe, no idea if the aoe attack would deal the vital strike damage to all adjacent enemies or not. Though not sure if the build would work better with a Two-Handed Fighter and their x2 Str on two-handed weapon damage, instead of 1.5x Str, or if something like an Aybssal Bloodline Sorcerer or Eldritch Scion, perhaps with Dual Bloodline for Serpentine or Dragon, maybe even with a touch of Dragon Disciple, for massive Strength. Not sure which would work better, but I think having better BAB and thus normally having more iteratives would better help Vital Strike's damage.

Also not entirely sure what would be the best Mythic Path to go for. Trickster has some interesting stuff based off of skills but I can't think of anything that seems like it would really go with the build, except for maybe the Mobility stuff where you don't provoke for movement but instead get an attack of opportunity if you normally would have provoked. Otherwise Azata gets some good stuff, though I am not sure the constant Haste would help a Vital Strike build, had the same issued when thinking of what Mythic Path to go for a Wild Shaped character.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

FuzzySlippers posted:

I like paladins mechanically but I can never get past the rp element. I wish paladins worked more like in Pillars because I find the LG holy warrior thing a bit tedious. Like if you could be a neutral Paladin waging a war on behalf of nature (like a more fanatical druid) or a NE fighting on behalf of monster races that'd give some fun rp room. Even Blackguards are tedious and suffer from the same issues.

Though I guess now I'm just complaining about the alignment system. Especially with classes as I hate monks have to be lawful when the alignment system generally makes it seem like lawful is more about society and not your own personal creed. So a monk can be true to a creed that would place them non-lawful by that perspective.

If Pathfinder 2e ever gets a game paladin is replaced with Champion. a defensive martial class with variations on its abilities depending on your alignment, with "Paladin" just being the lawful good version.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



Yeah it would be more interesting if the game have you the wiggle room that your God has (ex you can be lawful good or lawful evil and still be a paladin of Abadar)

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



The best edition of D&D already did this

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Captain Oblivious posted:

The best edition of D&D already did this

And it's one of those few things 5e didn't roll back!

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m





Grimey Drawer

Hey guys!

I just started playing this for the first time. Doing a Sorceror. I have a question. I got the kingdom, is there a way to tell what events will run in the background and what ones will force me to skip 14 days? I figured they would all work in the background while I explored the map, but sometimes i click start event and it just rams through 14 days quickly. Is there a way to start the event but have it do its thing while im out exploring the main map?

Cobalt-60
Oct 11, 2016

Over time, random factors add up. What is chaos in the moment becomes systemic over time and space. As data accumulates, a pattern emerges.



Promoting an advisor and annexing new lands will skip you 14 days ahead.
The problems/opportunities and projects will occupy your advisor, but not you.

Retrowave Joe
Jul 20, 2001
Be heroes.

Is there a point where I can just chill and explore? I got the kingdom going but there are a steady stream of problems that crop up (which I get it, running a kingdom ainít easy). Kinda like a post-game? I just really hate time limits in games

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Retrowave Joe posted:

Is there a point where I can just chill and explore? I got the kingdom going but there are a steady stream of problems that crop up (which I get it, running a kingdom ainít easy). Kinda like a post-game? I just really hate time limits in games

Unless you have an actual ongoing quest(like a main quest, companion quest, someone coming to your throne room with a request or the Ancient Curse in your journal being in the last 2-3 weeks before deadline), go out and explore. Just try to pop by the capital once a month.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



I've been able to cover every inch of the map available to me with plenty of time to spare to do kingdom stuff aplenty. Plus if you resolve the main Act quests early enough you get like 150 days of just time to kill you can spend exploring or building up kingdom things. I'm at a point now with 100+ days and basically nothing left on the map to go to so lots of time to get my kingdom maxed out.

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m





Grimey Drawer

Cobalt-60 posted:

Promoting an advisor and annexing new lands will skip you 14 days ahead.
The problems/opportunities and projects will occupy your advisor, but not you.

oh that worked. thanks!

Retrowave Joe
Jul 20, 2001
Be heroes.



Great to hear, guys! Iíll keep plugging along. I had to restart once because one of the follower quests in Act 2 mistriggered and I couldnít recruit him. I love this polished and buggy mess of a game.

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Again for those who are wanting more time to gently caress around and explore, if itís really bothering you like it does me that there is a theoretical time limit (even if practically it is long enough that you can easily do everything before the game ends), then get Bag of Tricks and Kingdom Resolution and pause the quests and the Kingdom timeline. Then you can gently caress around to your heartís content.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

Of course!



Nurse, removing breathing tube: "You're going to be a little hoarse."

Me: "Could I be a big horse?"

Cantorsdust posted:

Again for those who are wanting more time to gently caress around and explore, if itís really bothering you like it does me that there is a theoretical time limit (even if practically it is long enough that you can easily do everything before the game ends), then get Bag of Tricks and Kingdom Resolution and pause the quests and the Kingdom timeline. Then you can gently caress around to your heartís content.

Another two related points on kingdom management:

You can access kingdom management outside your capital in regions you have annexed, so you won't always need to travel all the way back to the throne room to handle events.

It's totally okay to miss out on or ignore some problems and opportunities. You really really don't want to put off the main quest and Ancient Curse because they start slamming you with a bunch of point losses if you wait too long to resolve them.

MonikaTSarn
May 23, 2005



Playing the wrath alpha now, and I'm not sure if I like the whole army stuff. Kind of weird that I can't help as player in those battles at all.

Anyway, the storyteller vanished from my army camp, anybody know where he might be hiding out ?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



I went to see if I sprung for alpha access and set up my backer portal and did not. I went to upgrade and remembered why not, 99 just too rich for my blood. At the same time, there's a part of me struggling with "is 12 more dollars worth it to get my name in the credits and a few more of a mystery "special item?" I should just wait and not spoil myself anyway.

Can someone with beta access just tell me on a scale of "hail satan" to "live deliciously" is it to play as a Lich.

edit: Oh, you can add alpha access for just 15 bucks as an addon. 43 bucks still isnt a bad deal for this game... hmmm

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


I dunno about lich but everything I've heard about Swarm makes it sound like the rated r version of an evil MotB playthrough

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Is there a good mod for making hiring mercs cheaper? I'm level 6 and they want 18k per. I just want a monk and a druid to pal around with.

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


FuzzySlippers posted:

I like paladins mechanically but I can never get past the rp element. I wish paladins worked more like in Pillars because I find the LG holy warrior thing a bit tedious.

That's why I was always dismayed that Hellknights... kinda suck, really. Mechanically, I mean. Flavour-wise, they're absolutely my poo poo.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Guildenstern Mother posted:

Is there a good mod for making hiring mercs cheaper? I'm level 6 and they want 18k per. I just want a monk and a druid to pal around with.

I vaguely recall a mod with the ability to recruit them at their initial price, but it might just be easier using bag of tricks or something to cheat yourself 18k gold. Later on you have more gold than you know what to do with, it's really a non-factor in the game besides early in exactly your situation, no harm in just cheating in some of the gold you won't be able to spend later.

The best thing about 5E is their Paladin change, you don't have to be Lawful Good and you don't even need to believe in a god necessarily. I'm playing a big red tiefling Communist Paladin using the Order of the Common Man. He draws his strength from his belief and faith in the rights and power of the common people. Find Steed is the other amazing 5E Paladin thing, probably a little OP but so fun.

edit: So there wasn't any easy way I saw to remove the beta access from my cart on their back portal so I went ahead and just bought it.

edit: drat, I was dead set on being a Witch but some of these new classes and their kits sound really cool. Cavalier is like a mounted paladin kind of thing but the subkits really open up some other mounted fighting types. They also get mount at level 1, curious if it's worth dipping into for a lot of classes, like Alchemist is.

Bloodragers sound like gishy barbarians and there's even a summoning version.

Oooh Monks get a mounted kit too!

Oracles seem like kind of cool new-age hippie clerics, i like the idea of serving gods as it suits your ideals and not the other way around.

Skalds are like violent bards who play metal that makes people rage? Devil Dancer!!! Classic devil-dealing magic/talent trade yess.Or just be a toot toot horn guy!?!

Slayer is some kind of roguey-assassin-hunter thing, one subkit throwing in some god0agent elements.

drat, i wasnt prepared what to choose what to choose aa

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Oct 14, 2020

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009




So how's the evil side in the sequel? Is it interesting?

I always want to try an evil run in games but it feels like the dumb rear end option instead of selfish or tearing down existing power structures e.g. kicking puppies because evil and then doing the same quests as a good character but you say grumpy mean things when you turn it in. Also you refuse to care about anyone even the people who have been helping your for years and it benefits you to at least lie and stay chummy with them to properly use them but since evil I have to say pointless lovely things.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Perfect Potato posted:

I dunno about lich but everything I've heard about Swarm makes it sound like the rated r version of an evil MotB playthrough

Swarm isn't implemented yet, so people can't personally check, but yeah datamined dialogue and dev chat have definitely pointed that direction. As in unique dialogue options for eating named major NPCs in your base of operations - including shopkeeps. NONE of your companions stick with you. If lich is "reduced party, but get permanent undead minions to make up for that, Swarm is flat out "you against the world solo." Likely including on the army layer, with you getting lesser swarms or something instead of normal troops.



MonikaTSarn posted:

Playing the wrath alpha now, and I'm not sure if I like the whole army stuff. Kind of weird that I can't help as player in those battles at all.

Anyway, the storyteller vanished from my army camp, anybody know where he might be hiding out ?

It's hard to tell just how much of the army stuff is still mostly placeholder, so I'm cutting them slack on that for now on how barebones it seems. It was one of the stretch goals that they mentioned they were aiming for HoMM 3-style army battles though, which don't include rules for solo heroes - nor do the original PF army rules.

As for the Storyteller, he'll pop up again eventually. Him just mysteriously disappearing may or may not be a finalized thing - there could just be dialogue not in yet that makes it more clear. Like, in a similar case, for the first alpha build Woljit just disappears at the chapel with nobody saying anything about it ever, leading to confusion whether it was a bug or not. With build 2, you get NPCs directly mentioning that he ran off.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Khanstant posted:

I vaguely recall a mod with the ability to recruit them at their initial price, but it might just be easier using bag of tricks or something to cheat yourself 18k gold. Later on you have more gold than you know what to do with, it's really a non-factor in the game besides early in exactly your situation, no harm in just cheating in some of the gold you won't be able to spend later.

I'm honestly a little surprised and disappointed there's not a console in game for that kind of thing. I can't really think of another game in this genre that doesn't have it.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Guildenstern Mother posted:

I'm honestly a little surprised and disappointed there's not a console in game for that kind of thing. I can't really think of another game in this genre that doesn't have it.

I like to blame Unity

MonikaTSarn posted:

Playing the wrath alpha now, and I'm not sure if I like the whole army stuff. Kind of weird that I can't help as player in those battles at all.


Today's patch made updates on army mechanics, maps units, armies you face, leaders available etc.

JamMasterJim fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 15, 2020

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



FuzzySlippers posted:

So how's the evil side in the sequel? Is it interesting?

I always want to try an evil run in games but it feels like the dumb rear end option instead of selfish or tearing down existing power structures e.g. kicking puppies because evil and then doing the same quests as a good character but you say grumpy mean things when you turn it in. Also you refuse to care about anyone even the people who have been helping your for years and it benefits you to at least lie and stay chummy with them to properly use them but since evil I have to say pointless lovely things.

It's going to be a little different in this because even if you're full-blown evil, you're also still totally dedicated to eradicating the demons, at least from what I've seen so far. In the full game I plan on being a Lich and going full-baddie, I only half-committed to it in Kingmaker because I needed evil for the good summons but I basically had to give that up and just freeze my alignment because I kept doing either Chaotic Good or Lawful Good things, oops.

In the very first part of the sequel I actually initially sided with the evil chick, actually not thinking about quite how evil she was, just more pragmatic, but then she reveals herself to be totes evil, but she's also wanting to submit to you and serve you because she just likes to always be on the strongest side. She's proposing you to keep her as a friend and he will do some hosed up poo poo to occasionally make a strong monster soldier out of this community of "mongrelmen" but mostly just killing them or making them into something horrible. Side note, I think being a tiefling or dhampir will be interesting in this game.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Oct 16, 2020

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009




Khanstant posted:

It's going to be a little different in this because even if you're full-blown evil, you're also still totally dedicated to eradicating the demons, at least from what I've seen so far. In the full game I plan on being a Lich and going full-baddie, I only half-committed to it in Kingmaker because I needed evil for the good summons but I basically had to give that up and just freeze my alignment because I kept doing either Chaotic Good or Lawful Good things, oops.

In the very first part of the sequel I actually initially sided with the evil chick, actually not thinking about quite how evil she was, just more pragmatic, but then she reveals herself to be totes evil, but she's also wanting to submit to you and serve you because she just likes to always be on the strongest side. She's proposing you to keep her as a friend and he will do some hosed up poo poo to occasionally make a strong monster soldier out of this community of "mongrelmen" but mostly just killing them or making them into something horrible. Side note, I think being a tiefling or dhampir will be interesting in this game.

Fixed your tag. I didn't realize you fought against hell no matter what. Maybe it's Paradise Lost but I'm always ready to join the demons if they aren't all just crazy torture monsters. Too much sympathy for the devil.

Is she a mad scientist or a pointless sadistic jackass? I hope there's room to be just ruthless (but not sadistic) in how you fight the war or pragmatic with a lot of self interest.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



FuzzySlippers posted:

Fixed your tag. I didn't realize you fought against hell no matter what. Maybe it's Paradise Lost but I'm always ready to join the demons if they aren't all just crazy torture monsters. Too much sympathy for the devil.

Is she a mad scientist or a pointless sadistic jackass? I hope there's room to be just ruthless (but not sadistic) in how you fight the war or pragmatic with a lot of self interest.

Note that there are likely going to be route splits to some extent for at least some Mythic paths - we already know about one huge split for certain - so the possibility that some paths can kind of be okay with the Worldwound in some form isn't exactly impossible. Liches in particular though are generally going to be against it even if they're going full undead apocalypse simply because of themes - there are of course exceptions, but the stasis of undeath is mostly anathema to pure chaos. The Swarm and Demon path on the other hand...

Also, Devils are literally the polar opposite version of evil from Demons.
In game, Hellknights are your biggest potential ally against the Worldwound (at least early on).



The companion they're talking about is basically purestrain Survival of the Fittest and side with the strongest, and everyone else deserves to be trodden upon and/or eaten.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Oct 16, 2020

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



FuzzySlippers posted:

Fixed your tag. I didn't realize you fought against hell no matter what. Maybe it's Paradise Lost but I'm always ready to join the demons if they aren't all just crazy torture monsters. Too much sympathy for the devil.

Is she a mad scientist or a pointless sadistic jackass? I hope there's room to be just ruthless (but not sadistic) in how you fight the war or pragmatic with a lot of self interest.

Devils are the other guys. Thereís not much to sympathize with with demons. They are pure entropy and self destructive nihilism made flesh.

Evil in WotR is generally going to take the form of ďhow far do you go to stop an existential threatĒ.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009




I didn't realize there was a devil/demon distinction.

Is it crazy I kinda hope its shorter than Kingmaker? It sounds like there are a lot of different paths and that always gets a lot harder to have fun with when a run is 100 hours.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Devils are fascism. Demons are chaos and entropy.

Wrath of the Righteous actually is supposed to be shorter than Kingmaker specifically because the Mythic Path system is meant to encourage replays and nobody wants to replay a 160 hour mega campaign.

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

I apparently have over 200 hours in the Wrath Alpha already, and still have builds I want to try.

That is more than I have in Pillars of Eternity 2 apparently. Also about 50 hours less than my total play time of Kingmaker and I had serious alt-itis in that.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Ryuujin posted:

I apparently have over 200 hours in the Wrath Alpha already, and still have builds I want to try.

That is more than I have in Pillars of Eternity 2 apparently. Also about 50 hours less than my total play time of Kingmaker and I had serious alt-itis in that.

Just class/archetype wise, you have 3 times the options to try out compared to kingmaker, before mythics even come into play. I have replayed the first chapter to get a feel of archetypes not present in Kingmaker a bit too much.

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

I really want to try out all of the Mythics, and even with all that time and all those playthroughs I haven't actually gotten through most of the Mythics, and Demon is the only one I finished the alpha with so far. Really want to see the ones that aren't in yet, though most if not all of them probably aren't even going to be available in the first 3 chapters.

So playing a Fighter, got to Mythic 1 then to 6th level to pick up Vital Strike, and using the Wide Sweep scythe. And it looks like the aoe hit does not get multiplied with Vital Strike. First target took 4d4+18 damage for 25, second took 2d4+18 for ... 25, and third target took 2d4+18 for 23. Still need another Mythic level to grab Mythic Vital Strike. Also still not sure what Mythic Path to go for this character, especially since I doubt Trickster is going to work as I am not seeing it as an option under Mythic Hero when I grabbed the first Mythic Level.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


Am I blind or is it not possible to get into the Wrath Alpha anymore? The kickstarter campaign seems to be over, and I can't find any other place to buy access to the alpha anymore.

As an aside, 60 bucks for the BG3 early access is crazy, I'd hesitate about paying that much for a full game, never mind an unfinished one!

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Torrannor posted:

Am I blind or is it not possible to get into the Wrath Alpha anymore? The kickstarter campaign seems to be over, and I can't find any other place to buy access to the alpha anymore.

As an aside, 60 bucks for the BG3 early access is crazy, I'd hesitate about paying that much for a full game, never mind an unfinished one!

https://wrath.owlcatgames.com/preorder
You buy any version of the game, then the Alpha as a separate add-on (which comes up to 48 bucks at least). Beta access is only available with the 114$ Early Access package.

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

Lord Koth have you tried using Vital Strike with Kinetic Blade? I know in the playtest for Occult Adventures it worked at one point, but I thought they fixed that in the final version. And everytime I see people talking about it they say it doesn't work. But I haven't tried it in Kingmaker, and haven't gotten a Kineticist far enough in Wrath to test it.

Would be nice, but presumably crazy damage.

Also I wish there was a way to get Opportunity Attacks with Kinetic Blade. A Trickster with Kinetic Blade and the Mobility abilities to let them get an Opportunity Attack when they would normally provoke them would be great. But since I don't think that would work I have no idea what Mythic stuff would even work for a Kineticist.

Buller
Nov 6, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


It sure does take a long time before monk is an interesting class.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Just did a very quick test, and no, it does not work in Kingmaker. It accepts the Vital Strike action fine, it just doesn't boost the damage. Ultimately it working or not on the tabletop comes down "do you consider kinetic blast to be a weapon?" which is a mechanical issue that doesn't have a clear answer - you can absolutely take Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) for instance. Also, it only even theoretically works with Kinetic Blade and associated infusions.

The lack of Kinetic Whip (and thus a Kineticist's way of getting attacks of opportunity) is indeed unfortunate. As for mythic paths, there aren't really specifically tailored to ranged gameplay in general, though Trickster does add sneak attack dice. If you're blading, any of the paths that help in melee should be fine - Angel's probably pretty good for example, since the Halo and the spellbook are both good support tools, though I have no clue whether Sword of Heaven would work on you or not.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Lord Koth posted:

Just did a very quick test, and no, it does not work in Kingmaker. It accepts the Vital Strike action fine, it just doesn't boost the damage. Ultimately it working or not on the tabletop comes down "do you consider kinetic blast to be a weapon?" which is a mechanical issue that doesn't have a clear answer - you can absolutely take Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) for instance. Also, it only even theoretically works with Kinetic Blade and associated infusions.

The lack of Kinetic Whip (and thus a Kineticist's way of getting attacks of opportunity) is indeed unfortunate. As for mythic paths, there aren't really specifically tailored to ranged gameplay in general, though Trickster does add sneak attack dice. If you're blading, any of the paths that help in melee should be fine - Angel's probably pretty good for example, since the Halo and the spellbook are both good support tools, though I have no clue whether Sword of Heaven would work on you or not.

There is the Vrock demon aspect that gives you flat boost on ranged attack rolls and makes enemies within 30 feet walk as if in difficult terrain, so that is nice .

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply