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Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


Beefeater1980 posted:

This sounds amazing, so if I play a witch I get a mechanical benefit for yelling Ill get you and your little dog too at enemies?

If you do it while cackling insanely, yes.

You can also grow your hair to fight people with (including beard, moustache, or eyebrow hair for if you're a man), give them the evil eye, create voodoo dolls, turn people into pigs, cook people alive in a cauldron, put them into an eternal slumber, create a Baba Yaga house... The class is ridiculously flavorful.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ryuujin posted:

Huh I have been woefully under funded in WotR so far. Probably because I keep spending gold on finances either for troops or in some of my runs for buildings in my uh forts? or whatever they were.

I really haven't been having money issues at all, so

As you alluded to, you might just be spending money on Finances/Resources too much, rather than letting its daily value accumulate and funding your purchases via that. I've definitely dumped a fair bit into those early on, but am still running a rather large surplus of gold... though admittedly this current character didn't realize the spoilered thing (it's how I found out) - I'd still be running around 100k if I had though. Maybe you're just not waiting for daily accumulation enough?

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


Nephthys posted:

You can also grow your hair to fight people with (including beard, moustache, or eyebrow hair for if you're a man), give them the evil eye, create voodoo dolls, turn people into pigs, cook people alive in a cauldron, put them into an eternal slumber, create a Baba Yaga house... The class is ridiculously flavorful.

Fun Fact You Probably Knew: Irrisen, one of the Golarion/Pathfinder countries, was founded by Literally Baba Yaga. She crossed over from Russia a 1500-ish years ago and invaded the north with an army of ice trolls, wolves, etc. She's the Witch archetype basis both in terms of the real-world class design inspiration and also literally the #1 OG witch according to the setting itself.

There's also a fun adventure called "Rasputin Must Die!" were players go to World War 1 Russia to stop Rasputin loving with Irrisen's Witch Queen succession (using, of course, Nikola Tesla's world-traveling machine). The entire adventure path ends with Rasputin's secret daughter Anastasia Romanov on the Irrisen throne.

One thing I fault Kingmaker for is that it seems to have intentionally avoided many of the inventively batshit out there parts of Golarion so it could be more Boring Fantasy. They had the Technic League and a bunch of Numerians in the game but no barbarians in cyborg armor, no mystical laser staffs and not even a single giant murder robot. It makes me a little sad, really.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


Xerophyte posted:

One thing I fault Kingmaker for is that it seems to have intentionally avoided many of the inventively batshit out there parts of Golarion so it could be more Boring Fantasy. They had the Technic League and a bunch of Numerians in the game but no barbarians in cyborg armor, no mystical laser staffs and not even a single giant murder robot. It makes me a little sad, really.

There's plenty of golems to take care of the 'murder robots' in the game. I mean, they did Fey. If they did other batshit stuff it would take away from the fey angle. There was a piece or two of high tech oddity in the game via the Technic League, but I'm happy they focused on first world stuff.

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

Lord Koth posted:

I really haven't been having money issues at all, so

As you alluded to, you might just be spending money on Finances/Resources too much, rather than letting its daily value accumulate and funding your purchases via that. I've definitely dumped a fair bit into those early on, but am still running a rather large surplus of gold... though admittedly this current character didn't realize the spoilered thing (it's how I found out) - I'd still be running around 100k if I had though. Maybe you're just not waiting for daily accumulation enough?

Maybe. But I never seem to have enough finances to buy troops and build buildings.

Interesting thing is I am getting new options in this newest playthrough, I have now upgrades Infantry to Champions and have a few Sorcerers in my army. Not sure I want to do the spoilered bit, it seems like something I might do on some characters when I want that, but it is so much gold.

So I did get Trickster working. Still didn't show up with the others at Mythic 2, but it was an option at Mythic 3. Still couldn't ACTUALLY recruit Nurrah, just let her go and she might show up later. which was a bit disappointing.

Other Trickster stuff now I get to go into my closest and speak with the mystical beings of good and evil. It seems like this would be better with a character that is actually good at Bluff and Persuasion, as I see a lot of options to try and sow discord and turn the members against each other, but I have like a 5% chance at success.

Kind of nice I get 2 dice of Sneak Attack, but that would probably be better on someone with a lot of attacks instead of a Vital Strike fighter. Need to find ways to increase crit chance and crit multiplier it seems, because my scythe does seem to multiply either the vital strike damage dice or the extra modifiers from mythic vital strike, or both, on a crit and it is nice getting 200+ damage crits. Obviously when I get high enough I will go for even more Vital Strike feats.

Also need to figure out what weapon works best with this, I went with focus and specialization in scythes, as well as improved crit, because of Wide Swing and it is nice doing some damage to adjacent enemies, but they don't take the vital strike damage.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



And you can play the iconic Irrisen class, Winter Witch (archetype and prestige class), in this game!

Sadly, its chief gimmick is completely outdone by a general mythic ability, and a Witch's spell list is inferior for cold blasting to the sorc/wizard list, even with the additions WW gets. Or in other words, Winter Witch has a cool and unique ability to partially punch through cold resistance AND immunity (basically you deal half damage to cold immune)... but one of the generalist Mythic abilities is Elemental Ascendance, where you get to choose an element and proceed to have your damage of that type deal full damage even through immunity. And, at least currently, anyone interested in blasting is hardly going to be so strapped for mythic ability selections that they can't fit it.


With all that said, Winter Witch admittedly does lose very little from a standard Witch, so its not like you're really sacrificing anything else in order to do this even if its chief gimmick is overshadowed.

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

Oh is Winter Witch already in? I didn't think it was available in the alpha yet. Also yeah I really hope for more Mythic Abilities, for some of my characters I feel like I will run out after one or two, or in some cases 0, Mythic Abilities. Like my vital strike fighter is more interested in mythic feats.

My army is pretty crazy right now at power level 11, just took out a level 10 enemy with 1 shot from my 800+ stronger Marksmen. But I have so many potential army units per week, but no where near the resources needed to actually hire them, and as far as I can tell you don't actually gain any units without spending finanaces/materials.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Winter isn't in the alpha yet.

I just got my first Mythic level but just had to choose generic Mythic Hero. This system is still a little confusing but I got to pick some cool feats/powers. When my mount works again he will be much stronger than last time my mount worked. I think in the full-game you'll really need to know ahead what path you're going for and how it will work with your character, I think I cut myself out of one already.

I'm really curious what will make the best necromancer type for a Lich. Most of the undead-related classes focus on kicking their rear end, not many ways to summon em.

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


Roadie posted:

Use Evil Eye, then next round Cackle as a move action to extend the Evil Eye debuff by one round and cast a spell as a standard action.

Speaking of : a) is Cackle in the game ? and b) does it refresh every active hex, or just one ?
When I played witch in PnP, our DM ruled that I could only cackle for one hexed guy - which, you know, fair, as with Split Hex you can quickly give a whole encounter the Evil Eye and Cackle ensures that even when they succeed their save, they failed it.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Khanstant posted:

Winter isn't in the alpha yet.

I just got my first Mythic level but just had to choose generic Mythic Hero. This system is still a little confusing but I got to pick some cool feats/powers. When my mount works again he will be much stronger than last time my mount worked. I think in the full-game you'll really need to know ahead what path you're going for and how it will work with your character, I think I cut myself out of one already.

I'm really curious what will make the best necromancer type for a Lich. Most of the undead-related classes focus on kicking their rear end, not many ways to summon em.

You don't actually choose your true path until Mythic level 3, upon reclaiming the Sword of Valor - the choice you make at Mythic Hero 1 is completely irrelevant in terms of story. Which funnily enough means that "power from the Abyss" is the best choice for most melee if you're super optimizing, since it gives you an extra attack. They're all decent though, and since they have no effect on story people really shouldn't agonize over those.

Lich's best classes will be arcanist/sorcerer/wizard simply due to the full casting that includes the undead summoning spells (since you can get buffs to undead). With that said, Lich (and all the other paths) generally offer something to most builds so just because it's not the best choice doesn't mean it's not workable - though admittedly some more than others. Angel and Demon in particular are super good for most builds, simply because those are the always available Mythic choices and so have a wide range of options. Lich is probably one of the worst, but even there you still get the permanent customizable undead companions and some other stuff that's plain generally useful.


Kobal2 posted:

Speaking of : a) is Cackle in the game ? and b) does it refresh every active hex, or just one ?


Yes, Cackle is in the game with the exact same text as PnP, so it should refresh all relevant hexes. I haven't actually tested it though, as it's fiddly to keep track of in RTWP so was just putting that off until turn-based is added in (probably release for me, since I'm lacking beta access).

Ryuujin
Sep 26, 2007
Dragon God

I like the idea of Trickster's Bit of Fun at Mythic 1 for +3 to all skills at Mythic 2, and then going Azata at Mythic 3 to grab the +3 to all skills at Azata 2/Mythic 4. I think that was the setup, not sure if they both end up being the same bonus though.

I am going Trickster on a Vital Strike Two-Handed Fighter, not sure what would be a good Mythic Path for that in the final game as I am not really sure about it. Sadly I don't think Haste, which I believe Trickster and Azata can get, really helps a Vital Strike build, same with a natural attack from Demon.

Actually speaking of Natural Attacks, if I went Druid, or some other class with Wild Shape, would Vital Strike be good on something like a Shambling Mound or an Elemental?

Still not sure what to grab on a Kineticist, though Trickster gets Sneak Attack which could be a nice combo with Kinetic Blast/Blade.

I think Trickster with the stuff that eventually lets you have Greater Invisibility at will, or the Mobility stuff to get an AoO when you would provoke from moving, plus some extra Sneak Attack, would be good on a Rogue.

I wonder if Swarm, Legend and Gold Dragon will show up in the alpha at some point.

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


Lord Koth posted:

Yes, Cackle is in the game with the exact same text as PnP, so it should refresh all relevant hexes. I haven't actually tested it though, as it's fiddly to keep track of in RTWP so was just putting that off until turn-based is added in (probably release for me, since I'm lacking beta access).

Well, at least in this one I won't make a billion PCs to figure out what class I really want to play !

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m





Grimey Drawer

is this legit like 140 hour long game? i dont know if my body is ready

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


queeb posted:

is this legit like 140 hour long game? i dont know if my body is ready

If you count loading times and reloads, finishing it in less than 80-100 hours is unlikely.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Lord Koth posted:

Yes, Cackle is in the game with the exact same text as PnP, so it should refresh all relevant hexes. I haven't actually tested it though, as it's fiddly to keep track of in RTWP so was just putting that off until turn-based is added in (probably release for me, since I'm lacking beta access).

Yeah, as one of the very few move action abilities in even the PnP game, Cackle is really awkward in RTWP. It should be way more playable in turn-based mode. That said, it's such a mechanically and flavorfully important part of the Witch's arsenal that I'm glad they put it in. Cackle is what makes the Witch such a debuff machine, and it's such a great iconic image as well.

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m





Grimey Drawer

JamMasterJim posted:

If you count loading times and reloads, finishing it in less than 80-100 hours is unlikely.

the load going into kingdom screen from the map is really annoying

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Having finally finished to the end of the new build with one character, it certainly ends on a cliffhanger (if an expected one). Also while I'm fairly certain this game's earning an M rating just based on content in chapters 1/2 (which is about as far as I'd guess the raters will get), I'm going to be laughing if it somehow doesn't - because based your one encounter with Nocticula followers so far, and (making assumptions based on the adventure module) on knowing exactly where chapter 4 is taking you would make it hilarious if it didn't get that rating.

For those who aren't aware, assuming they basically keep to the module, you're effectively headed to the demonic version of Amsterdam's red light district, except the size of a gargantuan city and magnified a thousandfold (because demons). And, based on that one encounter, Owlcat absolutely is not going to shy away from those implications.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Lord Koth posted:

Having finally finished to the end of the new build with one character, it certainly ends on a cliffhanger (if an expected one). Also while I'm fairly certain this game's earning an M rating just based on content in chapters 1/2 (which is about as far as I'd guess the raters will get), I'm going to be laughing if it somehow doesn't - because based your one encounter with Nocticula followers so far, and (making assumptions based on the adventure module) on knowing exactly where chapter 4 is taking you would make it hilarious if it didn't get that rating.

For those who aren't aware, assuming they basically keep to the module, you're effectively headed to the demonic version of Amsterdam's red light district, except the size of a gargantuan city and magnified a thousandfold (because demons). And, based on that one encounter, Owlcat absolutely is not going to shy away from those implications.

Sounds like a very high probability of some real cringe

This is the exact kind of content I would not trust D&D players to not screw up in a thousand years.

Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 18, 2020

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3



Yams Fan

queeb posted:

is this legit like 140 hour long game? i dont know if my body is ready

just one playthrough?

Buller
Nov 6, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 18 hours!


Im getting more and more disappointed at my str monk. Everything he does is overshadowed by Nok-Nok just doing it twice as well. Execpt for running really fast past Valerie to take all the aggro and die real fast.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Buller posted:

Im getting more and more disappointed at my str monk. Everything he does is overshadowed by Nok-Nok just doing it twice as well. Execpt for running really fast past Valerie to take all the aggro and die real fast.

You need more gains.



Joking aside, it should be easier for you to land attacks or survive than Nok Nok as a monk, depending on your style. You may need to hyperfocus on one aspect for now.

JamMasterJim fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 19, 2020

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


JamMasterJim posted:

You need more gains.

Joking aside, it should be easier for you to land attacks or survive than Nok Nok as a monk, depending on your style. You may need to hyperfocus on one aspect for now.

The mighty Muscle Wizard that casts spells with his fists. You have my stamp of approval.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



Yeah the best part about being a monk is that no one can touch you, you're the tankiest motherfucker on Earth

Being a monk was how I managed to get through the end of kingmaker, since no one could hit me to apply the status effects

Buller
Nov 6, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 18 hours!


Turns out the reason my monk wasnt doing damage is because i had the tripping ability on. Game is much more transparent in turnbased mode

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


Buller posted:

Turns out the reason my monk wasnt doing damage is because i had the tripping ability on. Game is much more transparent in turnbased mode

You want Trip for a monk, but you want it to open up Greater Trip and for the bonus it will give for the style strike trip you can apply for free.
(And if you really like putting 'em on the ground, a Motherless Tiefling wearing the White Wolf cloak for another trip per round)

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


queeb posted:

is this legit like 140 hour long game? i dont know if my body is ready

Yes and no. It's not massive and confusing like you might be thinking. All the areas are fairly small.

It's like a little big game. A lot of stuff happens but it doesn't "feel" huge in the way that Baldur's Gate did (likely a budget concern more than anything).

Also keep in mind that depending on difficulty and how fiddly you are, a single fight with rando enemies can take 5 to 15 minutes. That's where a lot of the raw hours are coming from.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



A completionist run on turn based took me about 160 hours.

Buller
Nov 6, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 18 hours!


Kalas posted:

You want Trip for a monk, but you want it to open up Greater Trip and for the bonus it will give for the style strike trip you can apply for free.
(And if you really like putting 'em on the ground, a Motherless Tiefling wearing the White Wolf cloak for another trip per round)

My monk is too retard to take greater trip

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Im 127 hours into my first/only play through and am at the House Place at the end of the game. Its a long rear end game and a lot of poo poo happens.

Xan
Feb 7, 2005
Shop smart, shop S-Mart.

Steam tells me I have 500 hours in the game but I have only completed one play through. I may have restartitis.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



I'm at 220, still poking around what I think is it the penultimate chapter. However I tend to play these games very slowly, I go everywhere, I do everything, I go back checking everywhere because I'm paranoid I didn't do a thing and sometimes I'll spend an hour on a not-even-hard fight for no reason. I've also beat the DLCs.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

So I'm having some issues with octavia mostly due to never playing a wizard. Like ever, in anything. Right now she's kind of just sitting in the back crossbowing things and casting haste if poo poo goes really south, but that seems like a waste. I mean Tristan's right there filling my buffbot with a crossbow niche already. I only have the 3 lvl 3 slots at the moment and those I think should be devoted to haste slow and displacement(?), is there anything really good/useful in the lvl 1/2 lists I might be overlooking?

Buller
Nov 6, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 18 hours!


Scorching ray

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Guildenstern Mother posted:

So I'm having some issues with octavia mostly due to never playing a wizard. Like ever, in anything. Right now she's kind of just sitting in the back crossbowing things and casting haste if poo poo goes really south, but that seems like a waste. I mean Tristan's right there filling my buffbot with a crossbow niche already. I only have the 3 lvl 3 slots at the moment and those I think should be devoted to haste slow and displacement(?), is there anything really good/useful in the lvl 1/2 lists I might be overlooking?

Scorching ray and autocasting acid splash for damage.
Grease and Pits for Reflex based CC. Web for reflex and slowing opponents. Stinking cloud for Fortitude based CC.
Blur and Enlarge Person for buffs. Also , invisibility for ranged sneaks without flanking.
Summon monster for emergency bait/distraction may be considered, but you should have a cleric throwing Animate dead at this point as well.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

Of course!



Nurse, removing breathing tube: "You're going to be a little hoarse."

Me: "Could I be a big horse?"

JamMasterJim posted:

Scorching ray and autocasting acid splash for damage.
Grease and Pits for Reflex based CC. Web for reflex and slowing opponents. Stinking cloud for Fortitude based CC.
Blur and Enlarge Person for buffs. Also , invisibility for ranged sneaks without flanking.
Summon monster for emergency bait/distraction may be considered, but you should have a cleric throwing Animate dead at this point as well.

Stinking Cloud + Delay Poison (Communal) is an ace CC combo

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Fritz the Horse posted:

Stinking Cloud + Delay Poison (Communal) is an ace CC combo

Right, delay poison communal, at least one cast of resist energy and later death wards should always be available for the party.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


Guildenstern Mother posted:

is there anything really good/useful in the lvl 1/2 lists I might be overlooking?

Careful use of Web + Grease wins most encounters in the game. Enlarge Person is excellent and long lasting, especially on a melee that you want to give extra reach.

Most importantly, Enlarge Person is hilarious. Best used on Amiri with rogue or vivisectionist levels, so you can have a 3 meter tall raging barbarian screaming incoherently while doing "sneak" attacks. Later improved as Legendary Proportions, the best spell in the game.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Octavia just kind of sucks is the problem

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007


Are you folks not building her as an arcane trickster and dropping sneak attack ray bombs?

There's a reason she has that rogue level. (And doesn't need more then that)

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Everyone considering Stinking Cloud + Delay Poison, please note that demons are completely immune to poison as a racial trait. So while the combo works great in Kingmaker, it'll fall off HARD in Wrath.

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