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canepazzo
May 29, 2006



So, I did a respec of the MC well into Act 3 I think, I'm Angel mythic path and so far nothing seems to be broken (well, outside the generic bugs). Am I in the clear or will I be boned in the next acts?

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EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."


canepazzo posted:

So, I did a respec of the MC well into Act 3 I think, I'm Angel mythic path and so far nothing seems to be broken (well, outside the generic bugs). Am I in the clear or will I be boned in the next acts?

The devs said the bug mostly hits Demon and Lich players, so, while there's a chance your save is borked, the odds are on your side, though there's no real way to tell short of playing until you hit a either hit a dead end or win (if you're still in the first part of Act 4, there's currently a dead end either way, but I assume a hotfix is incoming for that one).

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Wow, the Radiance upgrade to +4 is bonkers. They really make it feel like the Angel path is the canon story despite all their constant "no choice is the wrong choice"

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Most pathsfeel that way tbh. For as many bugs and issue as the game has they absolutely did not skimp on reactivity or on packing in dozens of cool unique things for each Mythic Path.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



pentyne posted:

Wow, the Radiance upgrade to +4 is bonkers. They really make it feel like the Angel path is the canon story despite all their constant "no choice is the wrong choice"

If you're talking about the upgrade at the end of Act 3, don't all paths get that upgrade (or a separate one if they so choose)? At the very least I don't recall any innate advantages Angel gets with Radiance.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Yeah, Radiance isn't Angel-specific.

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies


What about aeon is bugged in crusade mode? I know bane is hosed up rn but I remember someone mentioned a crusade bug too

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


pentyne posted:

Wow, the Radiance upgrade to +4 is bonkers. They really make it feel like the Angel path is the canon story despite all their constant "no choice is the wrong choice"

It's just a little something something for Seelah.
Now, the Baptized in Yaniel's blood upgrade, that is a nice surprise gift.


Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



pentyne posted:

Wow, the Radiance upgrade to +4 is bonkers. They really make it feel like the Angel path is the canon story despite all their constant "no choice is the wrong choice"

To be honest, I feel the opposite.

A) Radiance isn't Angel specific

B) Having seen both Angel and Azata, Angel's reactivity is overall pretty piddling compared to Azata. Azata is way, way more fleshed out.

You'd expect otherwise given that Angel is one of the cover boys but yeah, the other cover boy (Lich) isn't doing so hot either soooo

canepazzo
May 29, 2006



New patch seems to have broken monster tooltips, they don't show up for me anymore hovering in RTWP; they show up if I hover on portrait in turn-based.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



ZypherIM posted:


Eldritch scion modifies all this in a couple ways. Mainly, "An eldritch scion can only use spell combat while in a state of mystic focus (see eldritch pool, above). At 8th level, an eldritch scion can use spell combat at any time." So until then you need to use a charge of that to be able to do spell combat (the full round do-hicky). You can still cast and deliver the spell through spellstrike.

Wait?

Where is this explained. I've just rolled up a ES and right at the start of the game. Can't see it anywhere.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Deptfordx posted:

Wait?

Where is this explained. I've just rolled up a ES and right at the start of the game. Can't see it anywhere.

Pretty sure that mechanic is in tabletop but not implemented in either Kingmaker or Wrath.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

Does life link work yet?

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



Deptfordx posted:

Wait?

Where is this explained. I've just rolled up a ES and right at the start of the game. Can't see it anywhere.

That's not in the crpg at all. I have a 13 ES doing everything fine.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



Cool. Just out of curiosity, what bloodline are you using.

I went for Arcane.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."



Deptfordx posted:

Wait?

Where is this explained. I've just rolled up a ES and right at the start of the game. Can't see it anywhere.

Looks like they just didn't include that I guess, which is fine because anytime it'd come up before level 8 you'd be wanting to use that pool point anyways. It'd be worth checking to see if metamagic works the way its supposed to or if they buffed it as well, that was always the real reason that archetype was so bad (PF normal rules is applying metamagic to a spontaneous standard cast time spell turns it into a full round action).

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



Mister Olympus posted:

What about aeon is bugged in crusade mode? I know bane is hosed up rn but I remember someone mentioned a crusade bug too

The don't get any crusade unique units, buildings, or battle skills. They get the map rituals at least.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Mister Olympus posted:

What about aeon is bugged in crusade mode? I know bane is hosed up rn but I remember someone mentioned a crusade bug too

The mission that is supposed to unlock some stuff for them never triggers. You can see the card for it Im the crusade management stuff and it just says you should go back and rest in your room, but nothing happens.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014




im honestly confused at these Seelah guides I see out there that are looking into "salvaging" her

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

how the gently caress changing her to Bard/Skald works? Do you just abandon the frontline/shield aspect of her and put her in mithril so her spells don't gently caress up? I'm asking because I'm gonna start playing Core and know I have to optimize things better a bit but at this point might as well hire a loving merc lol

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies


Ethiser posted:

The mission that is supposed to unlock some stuff for them never triggers. You can see the card for it Im the crusade management stuff and it just says you should go back and rest in your room, but nothing happens.

oof. is this the case for trickster too? i've basically heard something like this for everything besides angel/demon lol

frajaq posted:

im honestly confused at these Seelah guides I see out there that are looking into "salvaging" her

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

how the gently caress changing her to Bard/Skald works? Do you just abandon the frontline/shield aspect of her and put her in mithril so her spells don't gently caress up? I'm asking because I'm gonna start playing Core and know I have to optimize things better a bit but at this point might as well hire a loving merc lol

the inEffect guides are built primarily for Unfair difficulty, where you need to stack every single type of bonus you possibly can to be able to hit AC on anything but a nat 20. In this context, the fact that the party doesn't have a bard to start with like Linzi in Kingmaker, means that someone needs to be made into one in order to get that competence bonus to whatever you need.

Lower difficulties than the absolute worst are challenging, and having a hyper-optimized party will help but not total make-or-break like that. Unfair itself is also reportedly broken in a lot of ways too, so like don't stress

Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 14, 2021

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




frajaq posted:

im honestly confused at these Seelah guides I see out there that are looking into "salvaging" her

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

how the gently caress changing her to Bard/Skald works? Do you just abandon the frontline/shield aspect of her and put her in mithril so her spells don't gently caress up? I'm asking because I'm gonna start playing Core and know I have to optimize things better a bit but at this point might as well hire a loving merc lol

Nah, you keep the frontline/shield. Its not like Bard is any less tanky than Paladin and Bards specifically get an exception to ignore arcane spellcasting failure chance with shields plus they ignore arcane spell failure with light armor anyways. Just keep her in that or mage armor until you find some decent Mithril breastplate and you're set. Her dex is decent enough that heavy armor is usually a waste even going full Paladin.

I definitely vouch for the Bard build as its what I did and having a buffbot that eventually went all in on TWF with Radiance and a big shield ruled.

You also only need to use builds like that on Unfair. He's deliberately building all the companions in a way to stack as many bonuses as possible. Bards are basically necessary for this because few things overlap with Inspire Courage and Seelah is the only companion who isn't really gimped if you go Bard with her.

Zore fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 14, 2021

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


frajaq posted:

im honestly confused at these Seelah guides I see out there that are looking into "salvaging" her

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

how the gently caress changing her to Bard/Skald works? Do you just abandon the frontline/shield aspect of her and put her in mithril so her spells don't gently caress up? I'm asking because I'm gonna start playing Core and know I have to optimize things better a bit but at this point might as well hire a loving merc lol

I followed that guide and I'm playing on core. I don't think the point is to "salvage" her. I think the point is that you need a bard. The guides on that site suck because they explain none of their reasoning for their choices. But if you want a bard and don't want to hire mercs then yeah Seelah seems like the best choice.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Can confirm, Bard Seelah sacrifices nothing in tankiness and gains a ton of party support. Pure class Paladin is kinda bad and wasteful, even in Wrath.

Rycalawre
Nov 5, 2009


Kobal2 posted:

Trip report : charges still get randomly eaten post patch that fixes charges getting eaten randomly.


Yeah I have no idea how its implemented mechanically. When it goes off properly its glorious. Spirited charge works sometimes and others not. Sometimes works for multiple attacks in a row. Unsure why

https://imgur.com/a/5VMFRKG

I'm almost certain these were in one round. This is at level 3 at Market Square, as satisfying as this game gets imo when it works but theres other times my char will charge into melee then no attacks will trigger for the round. I think it may be to do with initiative? Like it gets interrupted.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

really wishing i hadn't forgotten to bring radiance again


also where the fuk is nenio in drezen? I can't find her anywhere

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Tabletops posted:

really wishing i hadn't forgotten to bring radiance again


also where the fuk is nenio in drezen? I can't find her anywhere

She's upstairs in the Inn. Which is a different building than the tavern and seems to basically exist to hide her and Hulrun and make them as hard to find as possible.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Zore posted:

She's upstairs in the Inn. Which is a different building than the tavern and seems to basically exist to hide her and Hulrun and make them as hard to find as possible.

ty!

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014




oh my god y'all are right I feel so dumb, I thought bards/skalds had to use mithril stuff but they can use medium armor AND shield with no arcane failure? I feel like my main character should be one goddamn

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Bards and Skalds are both Very Good.

DourCricket
Jan 15, 2021

Thanks Coupleofkooks

I got to level 11 with my Warpriest before I realized I could use fervor to swift cast buffs on myself.

I am not a smart man.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014




Captain Oblivious posted:

Bards and Skalds are both Very Good.

kinda curious what's the use for Mithril gear then?

Gyoru
Jul 13, 2004




frajaq posted:

im honestly confused at these Seelah guides I see out there that are looking into "salvaging" her

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

how the gently caress changing her to Bard/Skald works? Do you just abandon the frontline/shield aspect of her and put her in mithril so her spells don't gently caress up? I'm asking because I'm gonna start playing Core and know I have to optimize things better a bit but at this point might as well hire a loving merc lol

Heavy armor is inferior to DEX AC bonus + light armor/Mage Armor + buff stacking in 3.5 and Pathfinder

Melee bards are preferred because can still become omega tanky and need to be in range of the enemy to get their most useful song off. Dirge of Doom causes every enemy that isn't immune to become permanently Shaken also it doesn't have any saves so immunity is the only way to block it. The Shaken status is why so many builds go for Dazzling Display into Shattered Defenses. Dazzling is a worthless prereq and bad action economy, but Shattered Defenses allows you to roll against flat-flooted AC against anything that's shaken, frightened, or panicked.

Sylphosaurus
Sep 6, 2007


So Ive been playing as a twohander Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline due to its "Fire and Forget" nature and it seems to work just fine. Im just curious about what kind of feats I should work towards for a build like this? Should I focus on stuff like the Cornugon Smash line or perhaps Critical strikes?

Kobal2
Apr 29, 2019


frajaq posted:

kinda curious what's the use for Mithril gear then?

It's lighter, which lets puny elves wear heavier armour without getting encumbered. Also the armor check penalty is smaller and the dex allowance is better (ex a chain shirt is max dex 4, a mithral CS is max dex 6).
In PnP it also makes armour one category lighter (so full plate becomes medium armor, breastplate becomes light armor - you still have to have the correct feat to wear it but it doesn't slow you down as much) but I'm not sure if that's in the game.

EDIT : Oh, and the arcane spell failure is better too - bards and maguseses don't care about that poo poo, but real wizards or Eldritch Rogues do.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Kobal2 posted:

In PnP it also makes armour one category lighter (so full plate becomes medium armor, breastplate becomes light armor - you still have to have the correct feat to wear it but it doesn't slow you down as much) but I'm not sure if that's in the game.

It is, which is handy for someone whose class abilities key off of wearing light armour even if they have the proficiency for more.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


Mythic rank 4-5 or higher for second bloodline is obscene. For sorcerer's its just pick any three spells from the entire spell list 1-9 if you're already casting 9th level spells.

Finally hit Act 4. Got to same it was probably 35-40 hours to beat act 3 but what felt like a huge chunk of that was Crusade army management and in future play-throughs I will absolutely cheat in a unlimited movement army to clear the map piecemeal as I play. It's been a bit fun after getting over the initial hurdle from Act 2 but for Lich especially it's just a ton of micromanaging units all over the map.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

Are there any good fauchards in this game or is it glaives all the way for reach weapons

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."


Kobal2 posted:

It's lighter, which lets puny elves wear heavier armour without getting encumbered. Also the armor check penalty is smaller and the dex allowance is better (ex a chain shirt is max dex 4, a mithral CS is max dex 6).
In PnP it also makes armour one category lighter (so full plate becomes medium armor, breastplate becomes light armor - you still have to have the correct feat to wear it but it doesn't slow you down as much) but I'm not sure if that's in the game.

EDIT : Oh, and the arcane spell failure is better too - bards and maguseses don't care about that poo poo, but real wizards or Eldritch Rogues do.

The Eldritch Scoundrel archetype actually loses the Rogue's armor proficiency, so unless you spend a feat on it, you technically don't need to worry about the AFC of armors. If you don't mind spending the Mythic pick on it, Archmage Armor can get a spellcaster way more AC than any other option, and it's especially useful on characters like Woljif, who actually want to be in melee combat. Personally, I'm also in favor of giving Woljif both levels of Enduring Spells so he can have Shield up 24/7, as well.

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


Mister Olympus posted:

oof. is this the case for trickster too? i've basically heard something like this for everything besides angel/demon lol

the inEffect guides are built primarily for Unfair difficulty, where you need to stack every single type of bonus you possibly can to be able to hit AC on anything but a nat 20. In this context, the fact that the party doesn't have a bard to start with like Linzi in Kingmaker, means that someone needs to be made into one in order to get that competence bonus to whatever you need.

Lower difficulties than the absolute worst are challenging, and having a hyper-optimized party will help but not total make-or-break like that. Unfair itself is also reportedly broken in a lot of ways too, so like don't stress

Trickster is supposedly fine in crusade mode. In fact Trickster seems to be one of the least buggy mythic paths right now. From my understanding, in terms of bugginess, Angel, Trickster and Azata are largely fine, Lich and Aeon have crusade issues and Demon has problems in Act 5. The extra paths, Legend is perfectly fine, Gold Dragon has some pretty bad issues and Swarm is absolutely hosed.

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Jespass
Oct 17, 2012


Whelp can't progress from act 4, the cutscene isn't triggering. Guess I'll have a look at Kingmaker instead.

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