Pathfinder CRPG: A portmanteau of meatshield and death. It's a lich build after all.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Pathfinder CRPG: A portmanteau of meatshield and death. It's a lich build after all.

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EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Cynic Jester posted:

Anyone seen a maximum skill monkey build for a trickster run? I'm working on mine and i want some inspiration?

I will second the recommendation of Archaeologist. The Master of All gets a free Skill Focus, but the Archaeologist is able to take 10 on most of the important skills (Trickery and Knowledge/Lore), has a superior version of Trapfinding (it boosts Trickery as well as Perception), gets all the ancillary traits that normally make Rogues better skill monkeys (Danger Sense, Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge), can use its special performance type to boost its skill rolls even further when necessary, has every skill as a class skill, has Detect Magic and Bard spells for when those are relevant in conversation (and access to Cure spells makes the class more self-sufficient), and can be Human for even more skill points (though, I'm not sure if the Fast Learner feat works atm, I'll probably do a respec to check later on, but that should total up to +2 skill points per level). You'll probably want to go for Mythic Skill Focus in Persuasion so you can take 10 on that, too, and all but completely eliminate the RNG from the most vital skills (well, not Perception, but Perception can be juiced far higher than any other skill so it's pretty much always safe). The Archaeologist is pretty much a one-man party one it gets going, at least in terms of versatility. On top of being the best skill monkey, you also pretty much never need to worry about party composition and can take whoever you want, though I personally tend to bring along someone who specializes in Mobility and Athletics, since they tend to be the weakest skills for the archetype.

Anyway, I have a few questions and I'm gonna stuff them into spoiler tags because most of them are definitely spoilers.

-I'm probably gonna find this out fairly soon in the game, but on the off chance I don't, how do I get new companions Mythic'd up? Sosiel's just sitting there all mundane and mortal and I'm hoping his little errand he's invited me on does the trick but since I'm posting about other things I figured I'd ask just in case.

-The internet has some profoundly incomplete information on the topic, but having done the Angel choice both times in the prologue, I should be able to recruit and keep Wenduag alive later in the game, right? Like, it supposedly requires an evil dialog option, but I'm not the type to let companion characters die when it can be avoided.

-On that note, I'd appreciate any info anyone had on story choices that can cause companions to die/leave, as well as which companions are exclusive to specific Paths and/or will abandon you if you choose certain Paths (I'm aware that Lich and Aeon have some exclusive characters, and that everyone aside from possibly Finnean bails on you if you go Swarm).

# ¿ Sep 4, 2021 18:11

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 15:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

SpaceDrake posted:

So out of curiosity, what is the reward for clearing the Grey Garrison before the demons even have a chance to attack the tavern? I have a save where I could go do it right now, but I'd end up missing out on the loot from the Tirabade Residence, the Topaz alchemist shop and the Pitaxian Wine Cellar, and I wouldn't quite be level 5 yet for the GG. I'm curious as to what the reward is, because it's clearly doable, you just have to give up a few things, and I'm wondering what the trade is.

You get a bunch of supplies that they'd been saving for the attack, mostly consumables and money, but also an unremarkable enchanted mace, IIRC. If you avoid resting and survive off consumables, it's probably barely doable. Or just use Toy Box to reduce travel times to nothing. :smug:

By the way, if anyone recalls that one locked door in Horgus Gwerm's manor, on the second floor, it's possible to bypass it if you happen to have a scroll of Dimension Door (say, from judicious use of Toy Box), as the door isn't perfectly set in the frame, so with a little finagling you can get line of sight into the room. It's probably some light sequence breaking (unless the room's just bugged), but I'd say worth it, as the reward is an amulet in a hidden side room that grants random stacking "Other" bonuses each time the wearer gets a kill, up to +50 temp. HP, +5 AC, +5 Fort, and +5 will, resetting on rest. It's pretty good, but the requirement that you rack up kills over time to max out its benefits means it'll almost certainly be outclassed sometime around the midgame, so the earlier you snag it, the more time you'll have to enjoy it.

Also, despite being classified as light armor, haramaki seem to actually be clothing that just happens to take up the armor slot, as Nenio can wear them without needing to be proficient. Essentially, it's a Bracer of Armor that leaves your bracer slot free for other things.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Sep 5, 2021

# ¿ Sep 5, 2021 13:53

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

On the topic of Lann, I love the Zen Archer, but I gotta be honest, when I saw his stat line I recoiled in horror. What kind of monster makes a character with that many odd numbers on their sheet? Like, for how overtuned a lot of the encounters they design are, Owlcat is shockingly dogshit when it comes to making Companions that resemble what a real human might roll up. Not even necessarily optimized, just not making five out of six attributes odd numbers or choosing Double Slice with 10 Strength.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2021 18:36

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Hey, I supposedly recovered some sort of lost relic for a crusade quest (the last step of Opening, the crusade "tutorial", if you can call it that), and it displayed a helm and armor of some kind as my rewards for the battle, but neither appeared in my inventory the way other battle reward magic items do. Is there some sort of bug, or do I need to take some other special step to get them (like, were they deposited in my personal chest, it's already getting a bit crowded in there so I may not have noticed), or was it just acknowledging that I got the quest items and they've been sent elsewhere for Plot Stuff?

EDIT: Actually, I may just be dumb. If the rewards for that battle are a Storyteller item (the Crest of Mallander Linds, the Fallen Knight) and a Breastplate +2, then I did get them and just failed to realize the breastplate was the armor I'd gotten from the battle because I was expecting something less generic, and didn't notice the crest until about two minutes ago because it was buried among my various miscellaneous objects.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 6, 2021

# ¿ Sep 5, 2021 23:55

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, I just did the steps to unlock Aru early, and I found something that went unmentioned. If you check the altar again after communicating, there's a +3 throwing axe that can silence on hit in it. Not a lot of builds use thrown weapons, but drat if that's not a nice prize for one that finds it, especially that early (it's likely there as compensation for players who go back later in the game and solve the puzzle after taking Drezen, assuming that's possible).

EDIT: Also, there's a +1 flaming quarterstaff way off the beaten path down there that lets you cast Fireball but more importantly its name is Blaze of Disaster which is honestly wasted on anything less than a +5.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 6, 2021

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 02:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

By the way, found two bugs that kinda cancel each other out regarding the "recruit Aru early" thing. See, the first button for the Athletics check to go down the hill just plain didn't spawn for me. All the other Athletics buttons showed up fine, but the one meant to start the chain just never appeared. But it turns out the entrance to a certain cave (you can find it on the map once you pass over it) has a big enough detection radius that just clicking it from up above will let you in, and, naturally, when you exit you'll be down at the bottom of the hill and can proceed as normal, assuming the other buttons spawned in properly.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 02:50

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Found another bug, looks like Mythic Shield Focus doesn't actually work right now (or if it does, its benefit isn't reflected in the menu; Seelah's touch AC didn't change at all).

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 04:42

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Lord Koth posted:

Try unequipping and reequipping. That seems to work for a number of other AC-related issues (for example, I had to do that to get Nature's Whispers - Oracle revelation that replaces Dex with Cha for AC - working).

That was the first thing I tried. It simply doesn't work. On a similar note, Mythic Weapon Specialization didn't show up on the list of feats, but does still apply its effect.

This isn't as bad as Kingmaker, but Owlcat doesn't have nearly as much of an excuse. Presumably, they did the smart thing and reused most of the engine/code from the last game here, so they theoretically should have had more time to make sure the stuff they were adding actually worked properly.

Though, speaking of this game being a sequel to Kingmaker, am I the only person disappointed that you can no longer make your character left-handed? I really appreciated the option, and I'm very confused as to why they took it out (unless it's hidden very well and I just couldn't find it).

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 05:52

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Is there any way the OP can be updated with a listing of which Mythic Paths and classes/archetypes are seriously bugged at present (for example, apparently the Judge archetype's Sentence ability just plain doesn't work, according to posts from earlier in the thread)? I'm going to be playing more than once, and I want to make sure to save any playthroughs that would be subject to serious bugs for later on, when they've been fixed.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 17:12

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Is there a way to make Lann (or Monks in general) slow the gently caress down and stay with the party? It's getting kind of annoying having to micromanage my archer so he isn't just dashing way ahead of the others into encounters.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 18:08

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Gamerofthegame posted:

Your formation should be doing that as is?

That only applies to attack commands. Fog of war exists so any movement greater than like ten feet means Lann just bolts ahead so once the hostiles are in range to be attacked, everyone else is way behind.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 19:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

CottonWolf posted:

I think the Knowledge Arcana one isn't talked about as much because it's less flashy, but... If you take it at the earliest possible point, every magic item you find from ML8 onwards gets an extra +1, one random minor magical effect and one random major magical effect. i.e. you're massively buffing all the endgame gear at a point you'll probably still have enough time left to able to equip your whole party.

That synergizes well with Lore: Nature, since it generates random magical swag every time you rest. Let's not forget Perception's level 2 effect, which unlocks a bunch of special Feats that are only obtainable off that list, such as Improved Improved Critical and Improved Improved Improved Critical, oh and level 1 apparently adds a ton of extra hidden items to places, not sure how that's gonna work since I've yet to take it, as well as Lore: Religion, which lets you just have a bunch of Domains, though obviously you'll want to be a class that can properly make use of them. Also your Treat Affliction becomes a free at-will Greater Restoration, apparently. There's also Reuse Magic Item (based on UMD), which [spoiler]lets you ignore alignment, race, class, or other such restrictions on equipment[/url]. Trickster offers some really great opportunities to just snap the game over your knee.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 20:31

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

JamMasterJim posted:

Yes.
Honestly, the persuasion one ain't so hot, since it is based on rank, and trickster full caster support is still limited (though they got a few things).
But seeing poo poo like this is hilarious

Okay, wow, that one was not on the list I found online. Does it actually give you wizard spellcasting, or what? Now that I'm seeing them for real, one thing I'm wondering is, are the lower ranks prerequisites for higher rank tricks? Because they don't seem to be (the lower ranks don't claim to be prereqs for anything, and the higher rank ones don't have prereqs listed), and that would be pretty thematic given that they represent cheating in a video game.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 21:08

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

pentyne posted:

Saw this comment from the studio head about mythic paths.

They really need to find funding because it feels like a big part of their problems is the feature bloat from all their KS stretch goals.

This makes a lot of sense, since there seem to be some hints around the margins that imply at least a couple of other potential paths that were cut, such as something Lovecraftian, probably some sort of elemental deal (perhaps serving as an actual True Neutral option), and maybe something derived from Nenio's quest. But yeah, Owlcat's biggest problem seems to be trying for too much and just not having the non-monetary resources to get it done in a healthy way.

EDIT:

Insurrectionist posted:

Question about super early quest (spoiler): I got to the market square and got the Hulrun/Ramien encounter. I told Hulrun to back off, but Ramien interrupted and ran off. Then Hulrun gave me a quest to find him and deal with him. I went towards his direction to the temple of Desna, but I can't find him anywhere there - where is he supposed to be? I got like an apparition with a warning in front of the temple, but in the dialogue log it doesn't have his name and it just spouts two lines and disappears. The couple guides I found just says he's supposed to be in front of the temple...

He's stealthed or invisible, not sure which, but I assume there's a minimum Perception requirement to spot him. He's right by the gate surrounding the temple. Oh also the temple to Desna is the smaller temple on the little knoll, right near where the servant comes to beg you to go help Daeran, not the big one where the Thieflings and Stranger are.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 6, 2021

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 22:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Okay, so I'm on the Trickster path and I can't seem to redeem/recruit Nurah. What exactly am I supposed to do here?

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 23:07

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

pentyne posted:

Yeah, it's like Azata in that you have to follow a quest line you randomly come across and make the right choices.

The Lich in particular doesn't even give you a clue just have to hope you select the "Evil" option when it happens.

This isn't strictly true. If you clear out the Tower of Esrod during the Kenabres section of the game and visit the basement, you're told all about what was stolen, which matches up with items you find right before you reach the Wand of Zacharias (plus the note you find at the cave entrance explicitly confirms that it was those same thieves), which clues you in that the spooky zombie wand is that very wand, which is mentioned as being a very important artifact. The option to just stuff it in your backpack is non-evil, as well, so there's no cost to taking it rather than breaking it. Additionally, some of the text, I forget where, precisely, possibly during the scene where you find the wand, actually, but anyway it depicts Zacharias sending off his apprentices, with the implication he's about to turn himself into a lich. You have to pay attention, but the information that the wand is at the very least important and maybe shouldn't be destroyed is right there.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 23:16

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

deep dish peat moss posted:

So, I just reached Drezen and... when I entered the zone, it took me straight to the, uhh, post-siege "hanging out in your royal bedroom" map as if the city was already conquered. If I exit my royal bedroom I get a mostly blank open map with gigantic circular holes in the ground terrain, and reloading a save from before entering drezen doesn't fix it

I am pretty certain this came from using the "go to global map" option in the Toybox mod for what it's worth, which I used... way back at the start of the crusade part of the game. I'm guessing this because I tried it very early on (before leaving kenabres) expecting to be taken to the kenabres city map but it actually takes you to the world map and forces a reload if you use it that early, so it likely takes you to a weird post-drezen version of the world map.

After already having played up to/through the siege of drezen twice in beta I don't have it in me to play through this game again That has been a like, 20-30 hour journey each time.

If anyone happens to have a save from just before entering Drezen for the first time that they can post please do, I can just respec the MC into whatever I don't care about your alignment or what decisions you've made Otherwise I'm done with this game for good which will feel pretty dumb after backing it to get beta access and then never being able to play past where the beta ended

I'm similarly frustrated with the somewhat incomplete state of the game, and I'm pretty much resigned to doing a second playthrough as my Trickster Archaeologist (as well as playthroughs of all the other paths) in a few months, once all the DLC is out and the major bugs have been fixed. Maybe it won't take an "Enhanced Edition" to get poo poo fixed this time.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 01:46

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Gamerofthegame posted:

There is; a paladin, a shaman, a archer-monk, archer-fighter, magic-rogue, Weird-witch, wizard, oracle, fighty-fighter, cleric, slayer, ranger, and a warpriest. Technically not an exhaustive list as there's a fair few secret companions, but those are the main ones.

Technically you get three arcane spellcasters before you leave town, depending on how much you count the weird-witch subclass.

I'd consider Witch closer to Bard in terms of spell selection, a mix of both arcane and divine spells that just happens to be arcane for rules purposes. The only full arcane caster you get is the aforementioned wizard, which is good because you have someone who can cast whatever spells you need, but bad because you don't have a dedicated nuker on-hand (well, Oracles and Witches get plenty of nukes, and there's some gear that will add spells to spontaneous casters' known spells when equipped, so it's not all bad).

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 03:40

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

ankle posted:

Is there a reward for summoning and defeating the Vrock in the Market Square?

Yeah, he murders the group of crusaders there and one of them has a +2 mithral heavy shield on his corpse that grants DR 5/magic. At least, I think that's the item he had. Whatever it was, it was very good for that early in the game.

I think I encountered yet another bug, this time in Crusade management. I cancelled a decree to upgrade a relic and now I can't restart it. Is there some sort of cooldown or do I now need to load my last autosave?

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 04:48

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Blockhouse posted:

Oh the mythic paths also all have their own themes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SunpdJuKtLI

Demon sounds like a loving Doom 2016 track

Trickster's theme is some full-on Danny Elfman-Tim Burton poo poo and it is perfect.

EDIT: Link.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 04:54

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Zurai posted:

Are you doing another Diplomacy decree? You can only have one of each type going at a time, and so far, all the relics I've seen have been Diplo.

Nope, didn't have any other Diplomatic decrees going.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 05:00

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

SpaceDrake posted:

The posts ITT are really making me glad I picked Flamedancer Bard and am going down the Azata path, since FD Bard has had no issues (likely due to being a well-tested Kingmaker class) and Azata has few reported issues.

Still, I wish I knew why the crusade balance was so hosed up now. It's one thing for it to "not have been tested", but it was far better balanced and more enjoyable in earlier beta phases!

This is why I went Archaeologist and a Mythic Path you unlock in Kenabres. I figured a returning class from Kingmaker couldn't be bugged (and it's not), and that the paths you unlock earlier involve simpler mechanics and thus fewer bugs (this has also proven true, tentatively). It's everything else that's been giving me trouble.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 05:46

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

8-bit Miniboss posted:

Yep that's the item I got when I finally found his rear end.

It's a pretty great shield that won't face any real competition until you reach Drezen, and Seelah can make great use of it.

By the way, speaking of Drezen, nobody's mentioned the figurine you can find there that gives the character you hand it to a triceratops companion as long as they don't have an AC from another source, though it uses Druid scaling so its at -4 levels. Just seems like a pretty handy item.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 06:32

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Got a question regarding army types and options. I'm at the first military council meeting, and I'm very confused about Champions, which have basically no health or defenses and just deal kinda good damage assuming they live to dish it out, which doesn't really make them look like particularly elite troops. I'm probably gonna go with Regill's plan of using Shieldbearers, since I tend to only use footsoldiers to body-block for the archers while my clerics/Hellknights do the actual killing, anyway.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 07:06

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, question for fellow Trickster players that may be ahead of me, regarding the first Mythic Quest we get, what sort of impact comes from lying to everyone in The Council to turn them against one another? As a Trickster, it feels appropriate to sow chaos for laughs, but I'd like to avoid anything that'll screw me out of content later on.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 07:37

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

It turns out Mythic Paths don't just end at busted character options and fun story beats, they also add ridiculously useful things to crusade management. For Trickster your new special friend will pop in and suggest you take care of your officers' boredom, which gives you the opportunity to give every one of your generals a feat that automatically generates experience daily, so, there's another in-game system made vastly easier to handle by Trickster.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 10:30

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Kobal2 posted:

Well it does work in PnP, I can vouch for that. But wait, there's more : get Bashing Finish and follow your every shield crit (from either hand) with one more shield bash. Which if it crits should trigger another, and so on. Yes, it's as degenerate as it sounds. Not really *effective*, but hilarious when a massive chain happens out of nowhere (which is probably more likely with Trickster's loaded dice because even keen shields have lackluster crit range)

Do try and report data, for Science !

If you're doing Trickster, the loaded dice are just the beginning, you can also expand that crit range (and the multiplier) via the many levels of Improved Improved (etc.) Critical, assuming you get Perception 2 as a trick.

Speaking of which, apparently the extra +1 from the first Knowledge: Arcana trick applies to everything with an enhancement bonus, including stat belts. It'd probably take some work to properly exploit that quirk, but given that one of the other Trickster Feats is Stat Focus (+1 to any stat), there's possibilities. Will have to keep an eye out to see how it affects amulets of mighty fists (the wording of the effect might make the trick miss them), as well as stuff like rings of protection/cloaks of resistance to see if they get bonuses despite not being enhancements.

Kobal2 posted:

But that's not... you don't...that word means... you know what, fine. My most groveling apologies, I meant fine, my most recent foreverlord SIR.

When the only measure of merit is how good you are at killing, killing your boss is meritocracy.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 11:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Avalerion posted:

You can be a chaotic good angel I'm pretty sure.

From what I can tell, the alignment "flavors" of the paths break down as follows:

-Angel: Generic Good, leaning towards LG but not strictly

-Gold Dragon: More strongly Lawful Good, I'd assume, given that Gold Dragons are LG by nature.

-Azata: Neutral to Chaotic Good, basically the good that's not quite so hardnosed about it.

-Trickster: Chaotic, with where you fall on the morality scale determined by your choices.

-Aeon: Lawful Neutral to Lawful Good.

-Devil: Lawful Evil

-Demon: Generic evil, leaning heavily toward CE (moreso than Angel leans toward LG), very much the opposite to Angel, which makes sense, them being the default paths as well as being of opposite alignments.

-Lich: Evil, but you can kinda get away with pushing for an evil-leaning "ends justify the means" Neutral, I think, based on what people have said

-Swarm: :moreevil:

EDIT: By the way, when do I get some friggin' boots? I've already retaken Drezen and my entire team is still barefoot.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Sep 7, 2021

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 12:30

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I actually really like Daeran, as the game doesn't make much of a secret that his edgelord Oscar Wilde act is largely a front. It's also nice that he's not just open and honest about being a dick, but he also has some great banter with the PC where you can needle him right back and he just owns it. But, yeah, I'm not a fan of a lot of the early companions. Camellia is just unpleasant at all times, Lann can't seem to decide if he's Lawful or Chaotic and seems to settle on "commit to whichever one makes him antagonize everyone else and also complain constantly", Nenio is on some tedious anime bullshit with the one-dimensional science obsession, Ember seems nice but her whole manner of speaking skeeves me out, Woljif is sort of amusing but he's also a habitual whiner, and Wenduag seemed okay but I imagine that after the Shield Maze she just goes full murderhobo.

EDIT:

Zore posted:

Actually that brings up something I find weird or I might be weird about, in these games do people just pick a party and stick with it 100% of the time? I pretty constantly swap though everyone in various combos and use everyone in all these party-based games. Its not like you don't get enough loot that's tailored basically to specific companions and no one else wants. I usually stick with like 2-3 in the party at all times (for me its Wenduag and Seelah) but everyone else gets to come in basically on a whim or when I have a companion quest.

Yeah, I tend to switch out party members based on who I think might be narratively appropriate for whatever quests I'm doing at that moment, it's not like there's any cost to doing so, since experience is shared. Seelah and Daeran are near-constant fixtures (though mostly because they're always useful as a tank and a healer, unlike in Kingmaker, where I kept Linzi in my party for literally the entire game aside from quests where I was required to go alone, because it felt wrong to not have my personal chronicler always following me), but the rest of the team rotates a lot.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 7, 2021

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 19:15

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Azhais posted:

I ejected her asap without even considering her backstory because I hated her voice acting so much

This is also a true statement, which is too bad because gameplay-wise, she's pretty alright. Kicks a fair amount of rear end in melee and has a solid selection of spells, but she's just insufferable.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 19:23

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Zore posted:

Yep. Lann won't join till chapter 5 if you picked Wenduag at the beginning. You can get her in Chapter 3 if you start with Lann but it does lock you out of some of her interactions and I believe Makes her always betray you

According to the internet, if you pick an evil dialog option telling her she's not worthy of being in the crusade at some point, you can keep her alive and supposedly in your party if you pick Lann first.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 20:02

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

You know, speaking of healing, one feature of the Trickster I don't think I've seen anyone mention is that it not only gives you Sneak Attack dice, but you get your Sneak Attack dice to healing SA-eligible allies, which is barely ever going to be relevant, but it's another feature that's funny without straying into memes territory.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 20:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, yet another bug, this one regarding a magic item. There's a ring you can purchase in Drezen that supposedly gives the wearer's companions a +1 morale bonus to all skills. This doesn't work, at all (though the +5 Persuasion bonus the wearer gets for themselves works fine). Which, again, is baffling, because there was an item almost exactly like it in Kingmaker.

This is I think the biggest problem with Wrath of the Righteous, is that Owlcat wasted a lot of time and probably money they could have used on QA trying to reinvent the wheel with, like, camera rotation and poo poo, when just refining and reusing the engine from Kingmaker wholesale would have been perfectly fine. Black Isles/Bioware/etc. got three fantastic games out of almost identical assets (to the point where, IIRC, most magic items used in Baldur's Gate can be found in the code of Icewind Dale), and a fourth with only surface-level changes (namely, Planescape's totally different UI and item/race listings). They didn't do anything to mess with the engine significantly (I mean, they tweaked it in various places, of course, but it would take effort to spot the differences) until Icewind Dale 2, after they'd had years to perfect their technique (not that they weren't without bugs, but the bugs were much less severe). Owlcat needs to calm the hell down and just focus on making the core engine as good and reliable as possible, so it can be easily reused, assuming they intend to keep making Pathfinder AP adaptations. Between the Mythic Paths and the crusade mechanics, they were already making enough new stuff, they really didn't need to completely overhaul the visuals at the same time.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 7, 2021

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 21:06

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Another bug, this one particularly strange. So, I was doing some trial-and-error exploration to find where the encounter where you get Woljif back is and ran into the Skeleton Merchant a few times. I like to buy whatever he's got that's interesting and then tell him to switch up his stock, as one does. However, once I found the encounter I was exploring for, I loaded a save from a bit earlier to reclaim the time I'd wasted not finding it. And here's where the bug happens. Apparently, while the skeleton merchant's dialog reflects whatever you'd told him to carry the last time you met him within a given save, his actual stock is apparently stored independently of that, because he claimed to be on the hunter's gear list (which would be correct for the reverted save), when his actual stock was the mage gear list (which is what I'd last told him to switch to before loading my game).

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 22:44

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, it turns out your choice of deity actually has a small amount of impact in WotR. Certain actions can apparently result in getting minor rewards from your deity of choice (for one Trickster-specific example, when you play along with the drunk guy claiming he's the lost king of Sarkoris as a worshiper of Cayden Cailean, he'll send you a little gift as a sign of approval). I mean, I hope it's dependent on actually worshiping the god in question, I love little touches like that.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 00:54

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Mad Wack posted:

there is tons of religion based reactivity - maybe five-ish times or so per god from what i've seen. you also get reactivity from your race, class, and extremely rarely for a few items too

Hopefully, people will keep track of stuff like this and add it to the wiki (which, like most Fextralife wikis, is presently a near-useless collection of half-empty pages and 404 links). One thing the game ignores, sadly, is one's archetype. Like, most of them aren't that far removed from the base class, but a number of them have story implications (like Reformed Fiend or Armiger, or to a much lesser extent, Aldori Duelist, though the latter two can probably get recognized through their respective PrCs*) or change the class' image (like how the Archaeologist does not, in fact, have any particular musical skill). I'm sure a sorcerer or a dragon disciple has extra dialog for taking the Gold Dragon path, but I doubt the same can be said for a Scaled Fist.

*Though I'm not actually sure if Jannah Aldori has anything to say to a fellow Aldori, to begin with.

EDIT: Also, apparently Cayden Cailean gives you a pretty substantial buff during the fight to defend the tavern in Kenabres, if you worship him, so that's probably handy. I almost feel bad for finishing everything so quickly.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Sep 8, 2021

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 01:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Mister Olympus posted:

so people are posting about wildly game-breaking bugs like the 10% building thing and cancelling a bunch of stuff on using move actions. are those not patched yet? seems like you can stumble into a real frustrating experience on complete accident. i played kingmaker long post-release, how long did that take to get out of this state?

The bug with the Toy Box mod that broke move actions was fixed a couple hours ago.

By the way, is there anything that can be done with the Helmet of Scroccia, which you get from the cave in Leper's Smile, as it was another of the artifacts stolen from the Tower of Esrod. Storyteller isn't interested in it, and there's no crusade project for it.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 01:58

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Blockhouse posted:

new plan: doing a melee musetouched bard (maybe dragon disciple too?) for azata

The only question is what weapon: Rapiers step on Camellia and Longswords on Seelah

Seelah and Camellia are both single-wielders, there's definitely more than one top-tier longsword and rapier, especially since one of the endgame longswords falls into your hands about thirty minutes into the game and pretty much screams "give me to Seelah and never worry about finding another weapon for her ever again". Hell, I'm crazy enough to dual-wield longswords and there's been zero conflict so far.

On that subject, actually, Finnean is apparently a little bugged, in that his first upgrade makes him Brilliant Energy rather than Ghost Touch (the description for him still says Ghost Touch, which confirms it's a mistake), which makes him a little awkward to use at that point (Brilliant Energy essentially lets you use touch AC when attacking, but doesn't affect undead or constructs, because it phases through non-living matter, also, that's kinda the opposite of Ghost Touch).

EDIT: Also, it seems Regill has a Racial +10 to his movement speed for no reason. I assume this has to do with how he has the Gnome alternate racial trait that makes his base speed 30, but his base speed is clearly listed as 30 already, with the bonus being on top of that. I think Owlcat tried implementing it as a +10 speed bonus first, then decided to just have it fully replace the 20 ft. speed, but then left the bonus in accidentally. I'll see about ginning up a Gnome merc in a bit to confirm whether the bug applies to all Gnomes with the alternate trait, or just Regill.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Sep 8, 2021

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 07:01

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

deep dish peat moss posted:

I love the troupe of actors.

In my first encounter with them I chose to have two gnomes stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat play me. Then they gave me an option of what dramatic final scene should take place in their version of the battle of Drezen and I chose the version where I climb inside a cannon and shoot myself out of it. Now they're all worried because they don't know how they're going to shoot two gnomes out of the same cannon

A similar issue can crop up when you let Lambkin play the PC, and have them do the catapult, as they have no idea where to get a catapult that big; also that's apparently the "default" option as it's what happens if you tell the director to do whatever she wants both times.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 07:59

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 15:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Beefeater1980 posted:

I can�t remember what�s exploiter, is it like a Dark Sun defiler?

E: while I�m here, I wish the UI would do something to communicate to you when a kingdom/crusade decision has taken effect. Like, it keeps asking me to make decisions and then not telling me what the impact of those decisions is. If it does say it somewhere, it�s not signposted well.

Exploiter Wizard gets Arcanist Exploits instead of Arcane Bond and Specialist school choices. It's pretty good if you don't care for the school abilities.

By the way, there are a few explicit callbacks to Kingmaker I've found, though I'm wondering if a non-Trickster has encountered Sir Allfrey, AKA the "Tentacles" guy from Jubilost's quest, because it's not outside the realm of possibility that Trickster has a sort of "Weird Wasteland" effect on one's game.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2021 09:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Pathfinder CRPG: A portmanteau of meatshield and death. It's a lich build after all.

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