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Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
is kineticist cool

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Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

DeathSandwich posted:

Kineticist is *really* powerful in the right hands, but also can be kind of fiddly and weird. Kinetecist really doesn't do multiclassing because most of their poo poo doesn't really mix well with other classes. You also have EXCEPTIONALLY poo poo skill growth, on par with a fighter, minus one subclass that is obligatory evil.

They have two core gimmicks:

At level 1 you pick an element and it kind of acts like your cleric domain or sorcerer bloodline. Element determines obviously what element you roll with, but it also alters your class features. The biggest differentiator at this stage (aside from elements and associated resistances) is if your first element is Energy or Physical blasts. If it's an energy blast, your basic attacks are a ranged touch attack targeting touch AC (which is almost always lower, so significantly easier to hit) but you are beholden to spell resistance which can be a BIG loving problem when most demons have it. Physical blasts target regular AC so it can be harder to hit up front, but it isn't subject to spell resistance. Earth is obligated to physical blasts, fire is obligated to energy blasts. Air and Water can chose either physical or energy initially. At higher level you can mix elements which plays more into the below.

The second gimmick is that you pretty quickly start accumulating modifications to your blasts from simple things like making your blast knock down or push back enemies, all the way up to making your blasts hit various area effects.
Your choice of elements affects the sort of modifications you can get and use. All of the modifiers have a cost associated with it that you either have to spend parts of your action accumulating and controlling your power, or it's paid for by burning life force. You get some more ways to controlling and managing health burn as you gain kinetecist levels.


So with those two things in consideration kinetecist in combat revolves around finding really good attack combinations that aren't going to burn you up right away. You'll find your breakpoints of things you can snap off, things you can do if you are dedicating your move action to channeling, and things you can do if you're really pushing your powers to try and overcome hardships.

In Kingmaker Fire Kinetecist was extremely good, but they didn't throw a lot of spell resistance at you until mid / late game. With Wrath I can see the Physical blasters getting more worthwhile. Something to keep in mind with that, while the basic physical blasts target AC, the physical AoEs are saving throw and will always do at least half damage.

thank you for the write up. I was looking at a build to get an idea of how they work (mostly familiar with 3.5 so it's not super hard to interpret)

https://www.naguide.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous-demon-builds/
dunno if it's good or not, but i figure i'll give it a shot.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

DeathSandwich posted:

I don't have a map built out, but if you want a dead easy one: Start with Earth. Pick up bowling infusion to trip on hit, and then get the one to bypass damage resistance. At level 7 when you get the second element you can literally go whichever direction - there are nice things you can get out of any of the combinations.

While you're doing this, use your wild talents to pick up trip and greater trip and Fury Fall. You'll wind up with absolutely absurd bonuses to trip attacks. With Greater Trip, you give any teammate in melee combat with the enemy free reaction hits, which can be absolutely hillarious when paired up with Combat Reflexes on the melee. If you paired up Earth + Air, you'll have access to Sandstorm infusion and Cyclone shape at level 8, so you have an AoE Trip attack that does a ton of damage, but it'll burn you up like whoa.

The real ultimate goal in this build is first wall infusion at level 10 and Deadly Earth Infusion at level 14. These create persistent damage zones, and anything in it will continually be falling down and getting ground up by persistent damage zones.

Edit: That link you posted is for a Kinetic Knight build, which is a lot of what I posted above, but on the melee-specific subclass. Trip Kinetic knight is a masterclass troll build because it's also tanky as gently caress and really hard to put down.

ah ok, i was actually confused if it was kin knight or not because it took kinetic blade at 3 which they get for free at 1.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
this is probably in the thread but i don't have search.

some scripting issue (i'm guessing) is causing the game to just stop working when I emerge from the bottom floor of the garrison next to the wardstone.

Is there some fix to this? I've tried reloading etc.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
how do you guys level camellia? im not sure if i dig her subclass

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
I killed halrun but get wrecked by seemingly everything else lol

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
is there a list of things you gotta do before the tavern fight that aren't available after?

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
managed the tavern fight ok, no deaths, no crusaders on the inside died. 9/12 tavern health. haste is op. buy the scrolls.

oh also a million grease/pit/spiked pit scrolls lol

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
my kineticist has kinetic blade but is still taking AoO for attacking in melee with it. so that's pretty cool.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
anyone know how i could possibly fix this issue with kineticist kinetic blade not preventing AoO in melee? It really kinda sucks

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
anyone know how to open this door?




also i think i'll just respec out of kinetic blade i guess, it's useful cause i can use it to coup de grace but otherwise it loving sucks that its bugged

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Sep 6, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Anno posted:

You can pick it, or if you have the Crusader wizards with you from the library they will dispel those doors. Those are the two options I’ve found at least.

ah, i got it with a lockpick (20%). figured it was a bug so didn't try lol.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
anyone getting bad like freezing and stuff when mousing over bodies, in combat etc. it's kinda like hitching but seems to happen whenever a window will pop up or something.

just wondering if theres some way to fix it.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
re my issues with kinetic blade getting AoO's on attack

good news. i respec'd, and it fixed it. i don't get AoO's anymore.

bad news, I can no longer use ranged kinetic blasts

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
is there a way to use your companions spells to remove a negative level for instance, in your main camp? I can't figure out how if there is.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
lost chapel spoilers:



this fight was going poorly until regil loving blew it up at 75% health. thanks regil.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Sab Sabbington posted:

I'm surprised to find that I haven't really run into any performance issues whatsoever on my 980 even at quite high settings, seems--like a lot of things about this game--it's just made weird as hell.

I'm surprised to find so far that Kineticist just, like, really doesn't feel particularly great overall and I'm not sure I want to push to level 10 to hopefully see if that changes. I completely forgot how much the game puts me on tilt when it feels like 80% of all rolls land on 5 or below and how much my enjoyment of Kingmaker improved when I swapped to Wizard and just Did Not Give a gently caress about that anymore via AOEs and non-stop creature/pit summonings.

Thinking about doing something similar again, though I'm a bit worried knowing just how few frontline characters there are. I've seen people mention Sylvan Sorcerer a few times and figure that might be a fun way to try things out, but given how many Classes and Subclasses exist that can fill the role does anyone have any less common recs? Not super worried about it being like, broken powerful or anything, I've had a fairly easy time on Core with my MC being fairly useless damage-wise.

My kins damage is falling behind now (lvl8, just started drezen) compared to seelah(actual beast with her horse and both buffed), relig and lann all doing more damage. That’s mostly due to her not having multiple ranged attacks though, her single hits with empower are 35-50ish. Once I get melee working again it’ll be a lot better with 3 attacks. She does get mega trips though. And with overflow, etc my dmg bonuses go through the roof with a few burn.

Supposedly it works very well with a demon thing but I don’t know how and I don’t know when or how to unlock the demon mythic path.

There’s also that mythic ability that gives you bonus damage when you hurt an ally, which I think will work every time I get a burn point? Haven’t tried yet though so maybe not.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Sep 7, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Infinity Gaia posted:

I eventually had to turn the difficulty down for Blight Maw or whatever he was called. Yeah, I know he's optional, but drat dude. Is it even possible to defeat something like that on difficulties above maybe Core? I can see how an actually optimized party might do better than my "I don't know what I'm doing so everyone just monoclasses whatever they came in as" build but even so...

these systems are all about minmaxing. the difference between a /whatever/ build and something theory crafted to a T is like night and day in terms of performance

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
cool seems like improved precise strike doesn't work, still gets miss chance against concealment that isn't 100%

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
welp, respecd multiple times, tried taking kinetic blade later, tried taking it earlier, tried taking it after respecing. still provoke AoO's when i attack with it.

shits just broke i guess

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Zore posted:

Its an optional 'super boss'. There's 1 per chapter and they're really just there for bragging rights/achievements

whats the act 2 one?

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
anyone mind telling me if goody people get pissed and leave if I choose the demon mythic path? I really like seelah, she's real stronk.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
boy i really loving regret releasing the bugs on this castle. I haven't updated the game yet cause the new bugs sounded awful but the old bugs(pun intended) just loving bulldozing my entire party is real loving annoying.

the only way i've been able to beat them is to go in with my kin with 4 stacks of DR, and slowly try to whittle them down before she passes out.


edit: also I switched out ember for the demon lady in the dungeon and that was a loving mistake. I thought she was a bard or something but she's a loving ranger. Now I have no one that can use all my arcane scrolls.

is there anyway to switch out companions during the siege? I feel kinda screwed if i don't have a arcane caster/scroll monkey

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Sep 8, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Captain Oblivious posted:

Punch it mostly. My melee are easily hitting like 20-22 AB at level 8. Drop its AC by 4 with Evil Eye on Ember, then Cackle. Whether it succeeds its save or fails it doesn't matter, the Evil Eye sticks.

Edit: Outflank also is a huge part of melee-ing successfully. Literally everyone should have Outflank.

dang im lucky to get 19 on my melee at lvl 9. what am i doing wrong

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
how do you beat minahgo and co? stauntun has +40 to hit and does like 50 damage a swing, my best tank has 36 ac all out and gets two shot.

the gnome paralyzes my entire party and minahgo has like 40 ac so i have trouble hitting her


nvm i just sent seelah on stauntun and she clapped him in one round

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Sep 8, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
finally done with drezen and i think it took me like 6 hours jesus

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
imo use the auto crusader battle, it lets you fight it if you want instead if you don't like the outcome. the AI can absolutely determine you a winner of truly unwinnable battles (if you fought them yourself) simply based on whatever metrics it uses to determine losses automatically.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Vargs posted:

I had to stop using the Kineticist companion because Deadly Earth was too brokenly overpowered. Deletes the entire screen with no limit per day. Completely trivializes everything. So that's not a bad choice if you just want pure power, though Deadly Earth doesn't come online until level 14 (not that Kineticist is bad before then). Probably want to start with Fire then Earth, or Earth and then Fire.

super suggest starting earth since like 90% of the game has fire res 10+


also DR stacking and trips are really really useful

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

DeathSandwich posted:

Fun fact too is that it works with greater trip to give your other guys in melee free opportunity attacks on their way to the floor. If you have combat reflexes on the melee guys they also still get to attack for free when they stand up still as per normal. It's great for mosh pitting enemies to death.

I'll buck the trend and say if you're rolling earth kineticist in wrath to skip fire as a secondary and either home in on metal blasts and deadly earth, or go water or air and start doing mud/sandstorm sprays or whirlwind respectively until you get dealt earth.

Yeah fire is what I picked up at level 8 or whatever. Torrent was my first aoe ability pickup.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
is there any way to get int to damage for melee attacks as a sword saint?

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

DeathSandwich posted:

Just ac iirc. However, the sword saint Int to ac ability stacks with the one from duelist if you want to lay on the defenses thick.

dang. Maybe this was dnd 5.0 where you could get int to dmg with the sword mage equivalent

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Vargs posted:

There are way too many martial dex companions in this game imo, at least semi-early on. Wendaug, Lann, Camellia, Woljif, Regill. Meanwhile if I want a str-based character I've got Seelah.

thankfully seelah is a loving beast

also she can ride a literal beast that is also a figurative beast

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
once again for people having struggles in crusader mode, i strongly suggest letting the AI determine winners (unless it has an unfavorable outcome - in which case the game lets you choose to redo the fight yourself if you want). It will absolutely determine you a winner of fights that are legit impossible in the field battle mode thing.


edit: does anyone know where the magic essence in the shield maze is? I missed it on my first time through but am going through again and still didn't get it.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Ethiser posted:

I am having the opposite happen to me. The AI thinks I will lose all my troops, but I’ll come out of the fight without a scratch if I fight it.

yeah for some of them that is true, which is why you can always fight it yourself if it doesn't go how you'd expect.

like i said, it's been useful for fights that were unwinnable if i fought manually - not the other way around necessarily

just wanna say that this is mostly how i got to drezen without buying any units with gold at all and not waiting on the crusade map.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Sep 9, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Dreylad posted:

from what I understand there was one in beta but it got moved to the grey garrison. could be wrong about this but I don't think there's one in the shield maze anymore.

ah ok, thanks! seems that is the case.


edit: made camillia a primalist bloodrager, angelic path. She should have good aligned weapons all the time as well as 1d6 bonus celestial damage against evil outsides (aka 80% of the game) but she doesn't. another bug for the pile.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Sep 9, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

EclecticTastes posted:

Okay yeah, just to warn people who, like me, are compulsive completionists, the area known as Blackwater is the most buggy, incomplete area I've yet seen, like, "those partially dummied-out areas in the margins of SaGa Frontier" levels of incomplete. Two doors seemingly can't be opened under any circumstance, one side room's "puzzle" doesn't function whatsoever, and a lot of the treasure is hosed-up in some fashion. This is a clear sign to anyone who's looking for a smooth experience to give WotR a wide berth until maybe next May (that's about how long Kingmaker took to get its poo poo together). Maybe someday Owlcat will actually wait until a game is finished before releasing it. :shrug:

According to Posts Online That May Be Bullshit, for Nurah you need to:

1. Find the perfume in her tent after Leper's Smile, confront her and get her excuse.

2. Find her during the gargoyle attack with alchemist's fire, confront her, get her excuse.

3. Find more firebombs in her tent after Lost Chapel, confront her, and then you will apparently be able to hold her to account this time, and if you have Trickster unlocked, you'll get a special option.


I'd need to start a new playthrough to test this, and that's not happening until the game is fully playable. My current playthrough is mostly about cataloging things as I mess up or miss them in order to get everything perfect when I play for real after the DLC is out and the bugs are fixed.

I had done all that and noticed I had a grayed option from trickster for that. So may be right.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 9, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Killsion posted:

Can someone confirm if there is any benefit to doing the Gray Garrison before the Tavern fight? Or is it just straight up more experience, and items if you do the Tavern fight?

I’m gonna try this. I messed up kaylas or whatever’s quest and am like 300 xp short of lvl 5 but I have all the support people so the garrison fight will probably go ok

Edit : maybe not. The tavern fight quest reward is 900 xp+another 700 or so from all the enemies. The gray garrison xp reward is the same either way if it’s only 1600

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 9, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Zurai posted:

They changed it. You only get the one piece and you fix it with various amounts of Magic Essence, Cold Iron, Demon Blood, Mythic Beast Skins, and so on.

Any idea why he’s not talking to me in chapter 1? I spoke to him once, showed him some stuff I’d found. Now I found the buckler (almost forgot about it in the brimorak house) and he won’t go into a conversation. Can’t remember if he’ll be at the tavern after the barracks or not

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Helion posted:

Went into a quest that is full of draining undead. Not allowed to rest, not allowed to come back if you leave. Cool, cool.

This is basically why I have double extra spells on the aasimar noble guy. Restorations for days.

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Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

pentyne posted:

How do you build animal companions as tanks? The Bulwark class seems like a waste because you don't get heavy barding until much later then taking it early. Do you raise INT to get some teamwork feats/dodge/crane style? How effective are the pet specific buffs?

I feel like since pets can drink potions having a potion brewer who can make longer duration shield, barkskin, and reduce person is a good way to get that extra bit of AC.

Speaking of, everyone who talked about wanting a mystic theurage for this game, they'd make a fantastic character specced to scribe scrolls/brew potions. Rather then hitting skip day so often you can teleport to drezen and rest 4-5 times while your crafting expert cranks out top tier consumables. I'm just trying to figure out the right combination to get the best buffs since you need arcane/divine. With nenio you might be able to skip the scribe part and just brew but taking a mythic feat for that means you need to be able to constantly craft the good poo poo.

Seelahs horse had more ac than anyone in my party at the end of act 1. Like 36 buffed with defensive stance. I never used reduce person on it though.

I made it a bully cause the rest all seemed bad and tripping is good


Also I like regill cause he’s like peak utilitarian humanist. Will do anything to minimize losses and maximize winning.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 9, 2021

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