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It's that time of the year again, time for the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame voting. Started in 1996 by Dave Meltzer, it is meant to honor those who make a significant contribution to the sport. Criteria to get in is based on the length of time Wrestling, historical significance, ability to Draw, and wrestling ability. Unlike other Halls of Fame it is meant to be a global hall of fame, so success in Mexico, Japan and Worldwide is considered just as important as being a success in the US. To get enshrined you have to have 60% of the ballots for each regions (Regions are Mexico, Japan, US, and Worldwide) and have been wrestling for 15 years or be over 35 years old and have 10 years of experience. If you get less than 10% you are kicked off the ballot and if you've been on for 15 years and not in or kicked off the ballot you must get 50% to remain on the ballot. Voting is done by a panel (and just Dave Meltzer) for each region every year around this time. Compared to other halls the Observer is much more global and thus recognizes world wide stars where as US halls (even Cauliflower Alley) would only focus on US stars. It also has a workrate component so truly great wrestlers that might not have been top draws or stars can get in. It's downside is that it's voting is very much like the sports halls Dave Meltzer based it off of, which means deserving candidates may not make it in. This is a big problem as the Mexico ballot is clogged full of names that should probably be in but haven't gotten into due to split votes or tapes not being as easily available as Japan and US tapes were. Last years class was Mark Lewin, AJ Styles, Sharpe Brother, Minoru Suzuki and Pedro Morales. The overall members of the hall are listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_Observer_Newsletter_Hall_of_Fame New to the ballot this year are Paul Jones, Johnny Rougeau, Samoa Joe, Rick Martel, Universo 2000, and Kenny Omega. Removed from the ballot this year are Pepper Gomez, Dick Hutton, Sangre Chicana, Chyna, Curt Hennig and Tim "Mr Wrestling" Woods. On the ballot are : quote:Los Misioneros de la Muerte, the threesome of El Signo & El Texano (the father of the current AAA/Lucha Underground star) & Negro Navarro, Gary Hart, Jimmy Hart, Howard Finkel, Bill Apter, Yuji Nagata, Ultimo Guerrero, Villano III, Johnny Saint, Jim Crockett Sr., Don Owen and Jerry Jarrett. Most expect this year to be heavily focused on Mexico, both due to the quality of names still not in and the weakness of US and Japanese candidates. Kenny Omega is a interesting case as by match quality alone he should be in and most other years I could seem as a first ballot, but he may be held of both cause of the amount of Mexican talent and also cause some Japan votes may be holding off cause he may go to WWE next year. Others new to the ballot either are borderline cases that need a strong run to push them over the top (Samoa Joe) or really don't have a chance (Rick Martel).
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Sep 28, 2018 21:45
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the omega case is an interesting one, because his hall of fame years really just stem from 2015 to today, yeah that is probably unfair to the people that have followed his career from before (mostly DDT) but it's going to be the time period that's held under the microscope. are these Hall Of Fame years for omega? i don't know how you can say they aren't. but he's only just now getting a serious run as the Top Guy in NJPW, just after Okada's unreal title run. Omega was a big part of that title run being as revered as it was, but this is probably going to be what determines if he gets in on his first ballot. In a strange way, I feel like he may not get in, I think he should get in, but I think he'll get in with an over 90% vote after Madison Square Garden.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:56
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also i think joe is a hall of famer. he was a big part of ring of honor's growth during their formative years, which is now the #3 company that runs in North America and #2 that runs regularly. he was one half of the only match in TNA to draw any kind of substantial buyrate, has been pushed as a main eventer since arriving in WWE, the loss of buyrates makes it hard to gauge and track how much of a draw he is, i think a strong run with one of the titles puts him over the edge and gets him in. his track is extremely similar to AJ Styles, the only difference being joe stayed in TNA while AJ was able to draw as a main eventer in a major overseas promotion.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:01
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I thought Johnny Saint was already in, shows what I know
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Sep 28, 2018 22:07
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STONE COLD 64 posted:also i think joe is a hall of famer. he was a big part of ring of honor's growth during their formative years, which is now the #3 company that runs in North America and #2 that runs regularly. he was one half of the only match in TNA to draw any kind of substantial buyrate, has been pushed as a main eventer since arriving in WWE, the loss of buyrates makes it hard to gauge and track how much of a draw he is, i think a strong run with one of the titles puts him over the edge and gets him in. his track is extremely similar to AJ Styles, the only difference being joe stayed in TNA while AJ was able to draw as a main eventer in a major overseas promotion. Joe is one of the most important wrestlers in independent wrestling history, but I worry that it won't register as being a reason to vote for him. As much as I like Joe I'm not sure he was ever the best in the industry, either. Although he's always been a really strong overall package and it's kinda funny that during the period where RAW/SD's roster was so crazy thin that one of their programs was HHH vs Bubba Ray Dudley, and people in WWE's halls of power were looking at guys like Joe and other indy stalwarts and thinking "There's no way these guys can help us". That said, I'm not so keen on the idea of WWE cannibalizing ROH since while it's often been run by some really sleazy people, it's also helped independent wrestling grow and become a larger part of the wrestling world. So maybe it's worked out in the long run? Unrelated, but Punk, as much as I've lost respect for him, belongs, as does Bill Goldberg, Edge, Dave Brown, Mistico I and Sputnik Monroe. Probably others too but I'm not sure I know enough to make cases for them. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 22:25
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I do think Samoa Joe should go in but I suspect that he won't. I also think Kenny will probably go in, though I think it might be a little early even if he has delivered some of the best wrestling matches in history over the last year or so. Joe just has so much longevity, has proven to be a draw when used well, has wrestled so many interesting people, has demonstrated an ability to turn most everything into gold, and is pretty drat good at the whole wrestling thing too!
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Sep 28, 2018 22:52
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joe has a good case. if omega goes in this year it's a total farce
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Sep 28, 2018 23:18
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Randy Orton and Big Daddy
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Sep 28, 2018 23:25
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Joe's borderline to me right now cause while his Indie/ROH stuff was real good I'm not sure it puts him over the top at this moment in time. The WWE run has been okay but not amazing and while he was one of the bright spots of TNA it's TNA and it's viewed by voters that way (see also Nagata and Inoki era New Japan). Kenny has the match quality both in New Japan as a heavy and with DDT and has been on top or near the top of some of the best non WWE houses in the US in the last 2 decades. Now does that mean he should go in first ballot which some voters see as a special honor? Well....not sure he has had the length of the run for that though I would have zero problem with him going in this year (Although the only 100% slam dunk first ballot candidate I see in the near future is 5 years when Okada gets on the ballot). I also would have zero problem with him waiting a year or two cause the Lucha side is just way too crowded and needs to get cleared out too. Like La Park should get in with the year he has had this year in Mexico, and I don't see how Villaino III doesn't get in or Ultiamo Guerrero. I can also see Taue getting in just cause there has been a push for him to get in and the Stomach Cancer may get some maybe's to go yes.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:32
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If Punk isn't in yet, the guy whose resume is CM Punk But Worse isn't getting in. "But his work in TNA" if TNA mattered in the slightest AJ Styles' resume would have at least kept him on the ballot.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:40
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rare Magic card l00k posted:If Punk isn't in yet, the guy whose resume is CM Punk But Worse isn't getting in. i think joe's ROH work is much more important than his TNA work, but even in TNA he has claim to their biggest buyrate. Kurt was a big part but it's not like joe was a non factor
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Sep 28, 2018 23:41
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yea ok posted:i think joe's ROH work is much more important than his TNA work, but even in TNA he has claim to their biggest buyrate. Kurt was a big part but it's not like joe was a non factor Okay so Samoa Joe is Sting pre-WWE run but massively worse then.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:44
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okay
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Sep 28, 2018 23:46
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yeah
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Sep 28, 2018 23:48
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yea ok posted:i think joe's ROH work is much more important than his TNA work, but even in TNA he has claim to their biggest buyrate. Kurt was a big part but it's not like joe was a non factor Yeah, TNA is where a lot of the worst stuff in his career happened but he also was an integral part of the period where they did the very best they'd ever done and actually legitimately looked for a second like a viable alternative to WWE. I'd also rank his ROH stuff higher, he was treated better there, had an incredible title reign and also made them feel valid on the world stage with stuff like his incredible match against Kobashi.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:49
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Don't be a dick, this thread is for actual discussion.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:50
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yea ok posted:joe has a good case. if omega goes in this year it's a total farce Omega has a much better case than Joe. Much longer peak in the ring and a much bigger draw.
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Sep 29, 2018 00:58
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Joe is hamstrung by being beaten down spiritually for well over a decade and it hasn't let up yet. omega has never had that except for maybe a couple years early on. Currently in my fair rankings they are very close to one another
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Sep 29, 2018 01:03
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everyone that doesnt vote for la park is racist imo
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Sep 29, 2018 02:50
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I expect Villano, Park and Ultimo Guerrero to go in this year. Definitely the first two. Misioneros de la Muerte deserve votes, Caristico really does too but I'd be borderline on voting for him just because of how voting is likely to break down. I was borderline on CIMA for a couple years but he is completely deserving. Maybe more so than Caristico in terms of the grossly overlooked guys. He is so important to the business on top of being a great worker for years and building an entire company. I'm convinced Edge deserves votes but won't get them.
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Sep 29, 2018 03:59
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Park should definitely get in. CIMA is a tough candidate because it requires a lot more thought than most to really appreciate his contributions to the business, but I would vote for him too. Kenny 100% will get in someday, and to me should be a first ballot - even though his peak window is short (and happening now) it is so spectacular that it warrants a vote to me.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:21
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Do you think Taue gets in this year cause of Cancer or does he get overlooked cause voters are worried he's the Lynn Swan of the 4 Pillars?
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Sep 29, 2018 04:23
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I think Edge should be in but the voters likely see him as a Hall of Very Good guy. Did he have any big drawing periods that didn't involve Cena or Taker?
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Sep 29, 2018 04:25
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sigmachiev posted:Park should definitely get in. CIMA is a tough candidate because it requires a lot more thought than most to really appreciate his contributions to the business, but I would vote for him too. Kenny 100% will get in someday, and to me should be a first ballot - even though his peak window is short (and happening now) it is so spectacular that it warrants a vote to me. Kenny's peak as a draw is now but as a worker he was so good 10 years ago that ROH fans were pissed the company couldn't get more dates on him, and the company had wanted him bad since 2006. Back when ROH had a really strong sense for talent. Kenny is so good that people acted like his pretty good matches as Jr Heavyweight champion were bad because he wrestled to such a high standard before.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:25
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Edge very much feels like the WWE's Akira Taue in that he had some great matches and great periods but people never really saw him as the guy and it hurts him in voting. His career ending early also doesn't help either Edit: I do think Edge has a stronger case than Randy Orton though SatoshiMiwa fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 05:15
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Benne posted:I think Edge should be in but the voters likely see him as a Hall of Very Good guy. Did he have any big drawing periods that didn't involve Cena or Taker? Edge should get into the hall of fame just for being such a good foil to Cena that helped make Cena the star and Hall of Famer he is. Like people say Orton was Cena's biggest rival, but Edge totally was bigger and more important.
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Sep 29, 2018 05:15
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In 2020 CIMA will be putting on bangers holding belts in four different promotions at the same time while everyone is mimicing the latest spectacular OWE spots and he will still not be in the HOF
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Sep 29, 2018 05:35
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Edge very much feels like the WWE's Akira Taue in that he had some great matches and great periods but people never really saw him as the guy and it hurts him in voting. His career ending early also doesn't help either I think Edge should be in based on the fact that he was good for ratings and box office at a time where the only other WWE guys who could claim that were Cena and Batista.
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Sep 29, 2018 05:56
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B I G D A D D Y
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Sep 29, 2018 06:18
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i legitimately didn't know karloffe lagarde wasn't in the hof wtf
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Sep 29, 2018 07:56
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A world wrestling Hall of Fame without the biggest name in the history of British wrestling is a garbage Hall of Fame. Vote Big Daddy. He wasn't good, but he was very much a draw. Assuming you are a voter.
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Sep 29, 2018 11:33
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What would you think was the peak of Edge's time as a main eventer? I absolutely adored his feud with Undertaker and was thrilled that it got to main event Wrestlemania, but would most people rate the stuff he did with Cena as more important/a bigger deal?
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Sep 29, 2018 12:43
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forkboy84 posted:A world wrestling Hall of Fame without the biggest name in the history of British wrestling is a garbage Hall of Fame. Sure, he drew ratings but didn't draw big houses and helped kill the territory on top of being bad. Also British and thus bad.
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Sep 29, 2018 15:09
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MassRafTer posted:Sure, he drew ratings but didn't draw big houses and helped kill the territory on top of being bad. Also British and thus bad. Eh, if you're putting the death of British wrestling to one person I'd go with Greg Dyke myself. But sure, he certainly outstayed his welcome and that had a big impact. The cultural impact of Big Daddy can't be overstated though, you ask the average person 45 and up to name a wrestler theres as much chance they'd say Daddy as Hulk Hogan.
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Sep 29, 2018 15:33
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Jerusalem posted:What would you think was the peak of Edge's time as a main eventer? I absolutely adored his feud with Undertaker and was thrilled that it got to main event Wrestlemania, but would most people rate the stuff he did with Cena as more important/a bigger deal? 2006. his first run as champion maintained the highest ratings raw had seen since 2003, and was john cena's highest drawing opponent outside of wrestlemania.
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Sep 29, 2018 17:00
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Was Johnny Saint really a big deal? Or was it more "obscure old British guy Quack liked and brought to the US"? Either way, I can see Saint's influence in modern wrestling since his US excursions and that makes me happy
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Sep 29, 2018 17:38
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Jerry Jarrett deserves in for his twitter alone
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Sep 29, 2018 17:51
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I've always been out of the loop on this topic - what did Big Daddy do?
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Sep 29, 2018 17:52
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Lid posted:I've always been out of the loop on this topic - what did Big Daddy do? He was a really fat guy who couldn't work but had a ton of charisma and was the son of the promoter. He was basically the antithesis of what we now consider "british wrestling" so he couldn't chain wrestle or do hold/counter-hold shenanigans, he would do 5 minute squashes. He was loving GIGANTIC for a few years in the 70s to the point of having his own comic books and being on children's shows all the time, but the promoters put all their eggs in one basket and once he got worn down, they had no stars to replace him with. Also he was called Big Daddy and was friends with Jimmy Savile Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 21:10
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I wish Hero drew some gates because hes the GOAT indie wrestler and morally deserves to be in the hall.
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Sep 29, 2018 22:57
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