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Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




TMMadman posted:

Alright then, tell me where in those posts that Bif told BK what she thinks of me?

I thought she said she didnít really think much about you yet, but that she thought Asiina was casing in good faith even if she didnít think it was a great case. Iím not 100% sure what you are driving at

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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3980 days!


Bifauxnen posted:

uh

here

in my very first reply to BK


you just quoted it

Completely disagree.

That post is just sitting on the fence to give yourself options to vote.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


sometimes I think Mafia isn't really about casing, it's about letting out all your aggression into punishing people for not interpreting reality the way you do

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:


Bifauxnen posted:

sometimes I think Mafia isn't really about casing, it's about letting out all your aggression into punishing people for not interpreting reality the way you do

I mean, that works though

It's terrible but it works

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


SolusLunes posted:

I mean, that works though

It's terrible but it works

it did in Shine IV but not so much in Shine V :v:

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Bifauxnen posted:

sometimes I think Mafia isn't really about casing, it's about letting out all your aggression into punishing people for not interpreting reality the way you do

I find its more trying to understand the reality someone is claiming they live in, and if it's genuine or if they're lying their butts off.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3980 days!


Also I'll go ahead and ##vote bif

Max
Nov 30, 2002



IcePhoenix posted:

o before e

Anyways, I'm just sick of people deciding my votes ping them on day one. It's always "IcePhoenix seems like they're overjustifying maybe scum??? :thunk:" and then I just vote with a short justification and it's "IcePhoenix is clearly trying to start a bandwagon, scum???? :thunk" and then if I'm out of thread and see a case that's good and agree with it and vote on it it's "Oh is IcePhoenix bussing? SCUM????????!??!!??!?!?!?! :thunk::thunk::thunk:" and I just don't know what you assholes want from me anymore, and it's really annoying because I would just like to play the whole mafia game instead of constantly defending myself on day one which inevitably carries over to the next days because now I'm a target.

You're not going to like this:
##vote IcePhoenix

I don't think I put much pressure on you, and I don't like this reaction to my comment.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



The point of this is that you weren't even a topic of conversation until you made an argument with two people about yourself. Now when I've pointed it out, and Asiina made a +1, this has suddenly turned into a lot of aggro then I think is warranted?

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


TMMadman posted:

Also I'll go ahead and ##vote bif

I disagree that this post is TMM giving an opinion or vote on me. It is actually him scumclaiming. Can you believe how scummy that is?

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3980 days!


I wanted to jump on IP because he was the third vote on me (or the 2nd vote if you don't count MMTs joke vote) and those votes always trigger me.

It is possible he's scum, but I'm realky wondering if Hal is the scum vote on me.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3980 days!


Bif, the bottom line is that I feel like you are misrepresenting yourself.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




TMMadman posted:

I wanted to jump on IP because he was the third vote on me (or the 2nd vote if you don't count MMTs joke vote) and those votes always trigger me.

It is possible he's scum, but I'm realky wondering if Hal is the scum vote on me.

But what if we are all town thinking you are scummy?

IPs vote is probably the worst of the votes I suppose but you havenít been coming across very townie this game

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Max posted:

You're not going to like this:
##vote IcePhoenix

I don't think I put much pressure on you, and I don't like this reaction to my comment.

You didn't individually but you are part of a collective and if you can't see that you must be an umpire/ref

Max
Nov 30, 2002



IcePhoenix posted:

You didn't individually but you are part of a collective and if you can't see that you must be an umpire/ref

OK

What do you think of the other cases?

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I knew the consequences. But... I cannot apologize. I will not. If I should apologize or feel regret, then everything would have been for naught. I will never defeat the scum if I do.


I didnít really see pressure on IP and I think his reaction is a bit ott in the circumstances.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Max posted:

OK

What do you think of the other cases?

I don't like that bif has hedged so much, but the rest of it is a lot of arguing back and forth that will be more relevant after we see a flip or two, IMO.

Despite that, I still feel that TMM is the better vote.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Asphyxious posted:

I didnít really see pressure on IP and I think his reaction is a bit ott in the circumstances.

Yes.

IcePhoenix posted:

I don't like that bif has hedged so much, but the rest of it is a lot of arguing back and forth that will be more relevant after we see a flip or two, IMO.

Despite that, I still feel that TMM is the better vote.

Could you expand on why you think TMM is a better vote?

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



Asphyxious posted:

I didnít really see pressure on IP and I think his reaction is a bit ott in the circumstances.

IP does get voted up pretty early in the games I play with him, but it's only one vote. Probably not a reason to drop a 20 emote meltdown.

IcePhoenix posted:

I don't like that bif has hedged so much, but the rest of it is a lot of arguing back and forth that will be more relevant after we see a flip or two, IMO.

Despite that, I still feel that TMM is the better vote.

This feels slightly more townie than scum response to me, but it's still noncommittal enough that I have to wonder.

IcePhoenix posted:

You didn't individually but you are part of a collective and if you can't see that you must be an umpire/ref

Asiina and Max often agree on things during mafia games. I don't think what they did here with you was scum trying to make a push. You had an ok vote on TMM with decent enough reasons but you came back and defended your vote with a less than great justification.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



:smith: at missing most of joke phase btw

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007



IllegallySober posted:

Sorry, I think Iíve checked in with a post or two here but have had limited time today and a deadline in another time. I should be able to post more here late this evening and tomorrow as well.

Hoping the second part of this post will come true.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Mr. Humalong posted:

Asiina and Max often agree on things during mafia games. I don't think what they did here with you was scum trying to make a push. You had an ok vote on TMM with decent enough reasons but you came back and defended your vote with a less than great justification.

You're missing bif's involvement, friend

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

My problem with BK's vote, which he just continues afterwards is that it's too many reasons. It's "look at how many scummy things Bif has done" in a short period of time, and how every part of every post after that is an example of her scumminess.

It doesn't read as someone trying to determine someone else's alignment. It reads as someone who has decided their alignment and is making a case up after the fact.

Like it's the kind of case I think a cop would make on someone they copped as scum but they don't want to reveal.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Also IP getting mad at the softest of soft pressure I think is scummy.

I'm hesitant on that read though, because if it's genuine "tired of being cased early as town" emotions then he's only going to dig this hole deeper the more it's brought up and the more he makes it about himself, and I can easily see it turning into a mislynch later in the day as scum find ways to pile on.

I have no meta knowledge of IP getting cased early to fall back on here, so I'm going to default to believing people's emotions are real, since that's always a good default, and mafia dad a little by saying if you want pressure taken off of you, then participate and look like you're making effort to case other people and people will be more likely to believe you when you say you're town. Focusing intently on someone going "hmm that's a little weird" will only ever make them look at you worse.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




Asiina posted:

My problem with BK's vote, which he just continues afterwards is that it's too many reasons. It's "look at how many scummy things Bif has done" in a short period of time, and how every part of every post after that is an example of her scumminess.

It doesn't read as someone trying to determine someone else's alignment. It reads as someone who has decided their alignment and is making a case up after the fact.

Like it's the kind of case I think a cop would make on someone they copped as scum but they don't want to reveal.

Yeah I can see this. Itís a pretty big attack for a single post early in the game. I canít recall if BK is normally so aggressive

Max
Nov 30, 2002



This is why I'm pushing him to comment on other cases.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3980 days!


Asiina posted:

My problem with BK's vote, which he just continues afterwards is that it's too many reasons. It's "look at how many scummy things Bif has done" in a short period of time, and how every part of every post after that is an example of her scumminess.

It doesn't read as someone trying to determine someone else's alignment. It reads as someone who has decided their alignment and is making a case up after the fact.

Like it's the kind of case I think a cop would make on someone they copped as scum but they don't want to reveal.

I don't see this as true at all. Seriously, it sounds like you're complaining because BK has 3 reasons why he thought bif was worth a vote.

BottleKnight posted:

##vote bif

This reads to me as you determining whether or not to bandwagon, and deciding you might join the bandwagon later. Additionally, it’s weird to phrase it as Asiina “sussing out” when she’s made it clear the case is worth a vote. Additionally, setting up your basically-a-chain-Lynch is an intense hedge. I come away from this post having no idea what you think about TMM.

1. Hedgey post
2. Hiding behind others work
3. Setting up chain lunch

And you're saying that's not good enough for a vote.

I'm getting suspicious of you.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

Yes, it's too much for a vote.

It's early D1 and here comes beek with 3 reasons why Bif is definitely scum and then all the other posts are just more reasons she's scum and he's super confident in his vote.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

##vote beek

I'm feeling stronger about this now.

Social Studies 3rd Period
Oct 31, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER





sniper4625 posted:

Get well soon Herocat.

Still catching up on what appears to be the now standard flood of overnight posts, but both BK/Bif have explained their positions enough that I don't think either is necessarily coming from a place of bad faith. IPs overly defensive reaction is interesting, but I'm guessing there's some past game history informing that?

Lordy, no kidding! And on D1. Not that that's a bad thing by any means, mind you. To kinda pipe in with some actual slight content, thoughts so far:

On Asiina/IP: I know we're a bit past it, but... with D1's being what they are, beyond all the joke posting and nonsense all you can really do is press a little and see what comes up. Why, look at all the conversation it ultimately led to! I can see the thought with regards to IP, but I just don't think I can see voting for IP for that alone - today, anyway. Definitely noted down and filed away thought.

On the Bif/BK thing: ehhhhh. Put a gun or I guess a vote to my head... I'd have to lean a little more towards Bif(/voting for Beek, s'what I mean) but - and I say this and everything gelse without any outside knowledge on previous games or pre-read - it reads to me as perhaps a bit of an overzealous defense on re-reading the back and forth.

More in a sec, I've got like four different tabs of the game open trying to catch up.




On herocat: get well soon, brave friend! :ohdear:

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Hmm, I really don't see TMM. I held off on making a super firm call to see if he came back and interacted. This feels like town TMM to me thus far.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



I side with BK over Bif in that exchange. I think its possible Bif is scum this game. But I don't feel strongly enough about it to warrant a D1 vote. I'd hate to lose her early if she's town.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Who would you vote?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



IP's reaction makes sense to me based on his recent game history. Also, he is posting a lot more than he has recently as scum in other games. I lean town. I don't fault anyone for going after him though, I see the issues others do.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd


King Burgundy posted:

IP's reaction makes sense to me based on his recent game history. Also, he is posting a lot more than he has recently as scum in other games. I lean town. I don't fault anyone for going after him though, I see the issues others do.

Is there an almanac of player game history/posting habits somewhere, because I just realized that people could probably say anything they like on that front and those without the same length of experience would believe them unless it's called out by other old timers.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



sniper4625 posted:

Is there an almanac of player game history/posting habits somewhere, because I just realized that people could probably say anything they like on that front and those without the same length of experience would believe them unless it's called out by other old timers.

You can use votefinder to look at past games but otherwise you sort of have to rely on people calling stuff like that out.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



I'm super not feeling any of the active posters for today thus far. I think possibly scum are just hiding more among the less active folks.

I have yet to feel MMT as towny this game. Could be her. Also have my eye on Sober and Solus. I have no experience with SS3D, so not sure what to think there yet.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



IcePhoenix posted:

You can use votefinder to look at past games but otherwise you sort of have to rely on people calling stuff like that out.

More specifically, you can go to https://votefinder.org/players and look up the specific player in question to see their games and who they played with/etc.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



sniper4625 posted:

Is there an almanac of player game history/posting habits somewhere, because I just realized that people could probably say anything they like on that front and those without the same length of experience would believe them unless it's called out by other old timers.

I don't like relying too much on meta when making calls. It's OK for like, day 1, but past that you can start putting meta by the wayside. It's possible for people to actively change things up and it does also exclude people who aren't really aware of it.

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Social Studies 3rd Period
Oct 31, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER





sniper4625 posted:

Is there an almanac of player game history/posting habits somewhere, because I just realized that people could probably say anything they like on that front and those without the same length of experience would believe them unless it's called out by other old timers.

I would assume probably not. Always the danger for new timers, but I assume there'd be some leniency / understanding for not picking such up, naturally. :v: Meta knowledge is what it is.

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