Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Max
Nov 30, 2002



Hal Incandenza posted:

Max can you see bif and SS3P convos from before you were in the masonry?

Yes.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Max
Nov 30, 2002



That's why I don't think I'm looking at two scum faking it, it's about the amount of discussion I would expect from an unconfirmed masonry.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Max posted:

Scum have had the power to create masonries in other shine games before.

:glomp:

Social Studies 3rd Period
Oct 31, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER





Asphyxious posted:

When asked who they would vote for, they offer up me, TMM and... Bif.

Isnít that a bit odd? Considering they were now in a masonry with bif? Why mason someone you were on the fence with, why soft bus your mason buddy with no real reason?

I must stress that

a.) the masonry is unconfirmed.
b.) Taking my words sliiighly out of context here, aren't you? I said TMM or Bif, as one or the other would probably provide us some information based on their flips / everything else that went on, which, surprise, I still stand by! (Which was also before the BK flip when we were operating on the assumption BK was probably scum.)

fwiw, I chose Bif N1 for generating a fair bit of the discussion on D1, a gut read and a lot of the argument with BK that made sense. (No idea how hard I was hoping BK to flip scum there to clear my mason buddy.) Max N2 for being such an active driver of discussion all over the place in a way that did not read scum to me at all.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


IS: whatís your opinion of my alignment?

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Also several people have not posted their claim in the format I suggested. And MMT included her alignment even though I specifically said I can't test a post with an alignment claim.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



TMMadman posted:

Also several people have not posted their claim in the format I suggested. And MMT included her alignment even though I specifically said I can't test a post with an alignment claim.

Need me to redo mine?

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Max posted:

Need me to redo mine?

I think yours is fine since I believe the alignment restriction is for self claims.

I haven't asked but that's my read on it. Your stating that you received a result with an alignment while MMT is saying she is an alignment.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Also I'm irritated that my phone keeps wanting to go with your instead of you're.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


:beerpal: Votecount for Day 3 :beerpal:

Social Studies 3rd Period (2): hambeet, Hal Incandenza
IllegallySober (1): Asphyxious
Murmur Twin (1): Social Studies 3rd Period

Not Voting (8): Bifauxnen, IllegallySober, King Burgundy, Max, Murmur Twin, sniper4625, TMMadman, Xad :rubshands:

There are 12 people still alive. The person with the most votes at the end of the day will be executed.
The current deadline is October 08th, 2018 at 9 p.m. EDT -- that's in a bit more than 10 hours.

:siren: Today's execution method is Plurality (the person with the most votes at the end of the day will be executed thrown to the coyotes). The game day will be much shorter than typical. :siren:

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

I knew the consequences. But... I cannot apologize. I will not. If I should apologize or feel regret, then everything would have been for naught. I will never defeat the scum if I do.


I donít know when Iíll be on again before deadline so putting this here just in case.

##vote social studies 3rd period

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




I am Bodyguard {No shine power} and I performed these actions:
N1: Defend Gaspy (success)
N2: Defend Beet (success)

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




Hal Incandenza posted:

I am Bodyguard {No shine power} and I performed these actions:
N1: Defend Gaspy (success)
N2: Defend Beet (success)

Oops I checked my pm and thatís not quite right hang on redoing this

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




I am Bodyguard {Bulletproof} and I performed these actions:
N1: Defend Gaspy (success)
N2: Defend Beet (success)

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Bifauxnen posted:

so now that I got my own chart done up, I wanted to check KB's work:


That bold bit didn't feel right to me. That statement has a lot of caveats, in the middle of him listing out different possibilities and mentioning a bunch of other hypothetical stuff... but it seemed to still be moving along too hasty. Like the concession that maaaybe we could doubt Beet or Max's claims despite him finding them "natural", but no such doubt at all about how "MMT is going to give us a cop result."

He mentions other options like maybe we could have sanity issues or a godfather to deal with... but despite mentioning early, in passing, how we could maaaybe doubt Max or Beet's snoop claim, when he comes back to sum things up about the cop problem in particular, he never really comes straight out to list it as a main option to explain it here. That one of the many Snoops could just be scum.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Yeah bif I felt the same way. His list presumes no one is lying at all and two scum arenít confirming fake actions which doesnít seem very KB to me

As always, will be interesting to see if you are scum, or just have no idea who I am, even after all this time. :) It's interesting how you both ignore how many caveats I put out there as well as how obviously this is my perspective. MMT was already a town read as is evidenced by my inspiring her. So yes, obviously I have no doubts about MMT following through with what she said she would do. And you point out the bold bit as not feeling right, when I myself said I wasn't sure it was and made my own theory about why it was wrong.

What I find most interesting though, is Bif doesn't come forward with her own theory about who did the kill. Which definitely makes her look bad to me. She even says she made her own chart up, but, nothing?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Hal Incandenza posted:

A bit odd but I also think a new scum with masonry powers might well mason a scumbro first to have someone with them in the masonry to help out

I'm really not sure what to think about SS3P, that was unexpected. I do think voting him is the right choice now. If scum, then the above could make sense if he was worried about being found out by whoever he mason'd, so he mason'd Bif first to give him someone to help. But I still think we have to come back to the kill analysis. He couldn't have done the kill. So one of his teammates had to.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




King Burgundy posted:

I'm really not sure what to think about SS3P, that was unexpected. I do think voting him is the right choice now. If scum, then the above could make sense if he was worried about being found out by whoever he mason'd, so he mason'd Bif first to give him someone to help. But I still think we have to come back to the kill analysis. He couldn't have done the kill. So one of his teammates had to.

I still think IS did the kill last night based on claims.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




King Burgundy posted:

As always, will be interesting to see if you are scum, or just have no idea who I am, even after all this time. :) It's interesting how you both ignore how many caveats I put out there as well as how obviously this is my perspective. MMT was already a town read as is evidenced by my inspiring her. So yes, obviously I have no doubts about MMT following through with what she said she would do. And you point out the bold bit as not feeling right, when I myself said I wasn't sure it was and made my own theory about why it was wrong.

What I find most interesting though, is Bif doesn't come forward with her own theory about who did the kill. Which definitely makes her look bad to me. She even says she made her own chart up, but, nothing?

You did put a few caveats in there but I dunno it still seemed like a weird post

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Murmur Twin posted:

Same here - work is slammed (itís a holiday and they didnít schedule anyone beyond the skeleton Monday crew) and then I have class and I barely slept last night.

Iíll give the game a read / respond in a few hours but today (and probably tomorrow) Iím going to be somewhat limited re: time I have to play

My gut reads right now are that the scum exist in the pool of TMM, IS, SS3P, and sniper.

So I have more scum picks right now then are probably in this game, but I want to point out a couple things.

Why is no one paying attention to Xad? The part where he seemingly isn't on anyone's radar bothers me, especially given how he responded to the events of last night. He posted the minimum and went away. Look at how he posted previous to that, being so comfortable posting that he somehow forgot I was in the game having posted less than half a day before.

I think my most likely scenario is still the Xad/Bif thing, and I guess SS3P is the third. If there are four scum, I think the fourth is probably Sniper. I feel like his unnatural response to a failed action is still very representative of scum thinking and is the person I'm most sure is scum based only on posting.

Having said that, I can see scenarios where IS is the scum who did the kill last night. TMM is a scum who changed up his whole playstyle and is gambiting about the N0 flip being absorbable(note how little he's actually participating in the scum hunting now or theorizing, mostly sitting back and correcting people who aren't posting in his format). Gaspy is playing way differently then he did as town in my last game, which I found odd. So I could slot one of these folks in somewhere.

Social Studies 3rd Period
Oct 31, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER





Gonna try and make a bit of a defense here... I'll be in and out a bit throughout the day, but wanted to summarize and post some thoughts while actually at a computer/not on mobile, so pardon the slightly longer post...

For this post, I'm going to account for the fact that my creation of the masonry isn't what's in question here, it's my alignment - the masonry existing being confirmed by both Bif (my pull N1) and Max (my pull N2) ...

Max posted:

That's why I don't think I'm looking at two scum faking it, it's about the amount of discussion I would expect from an unconfirmed masonry.

Gaming this out, what? That means between the two of us, Bif and myself, there should be at least one confirmed town member, with the other possibilities being two town / one town + one scum. I know I'm migrant-aligned, and obviously Max I know you'd make your own assessment on this, but does the chat prior to your adding in seem to suggest myself as scum? Not that there's a ton to go by, mind you, but I'd at least like your thoughts on that, if at all possible, please.

Secondly, I have been informed that apparently scum masonries are a thing which, huh. Interesting. But I still stand by my earlier point, for the most part. At this point literally everyone left alive has claimed, and something doesn't add up / someone is a liar. Five cops (with two dead), a snitch and a tracker, two inventors, a motivator to double actions, the echo... come on. What's more likely, we've got liars (including the snoops!) amongst all that, or the town is so overpowered while one of the few potential scum slots goes to... a masonry? With a lack of knowledge on the meta, maybe I'm wrong and there's something bizarre going on here, but it doesn't sit right to me. Obviously, someone isn't telling the truth, and I know I'm being truthful here.

Also, I'm potentially making an assumption here, but going by what Max said a bit for our three snoops, with him having had two shine: have you all used up all your Shine? Mighty convenient none of you held on to anything to investigate a bit later, isn't it? Obviously, that could be a lie to lay low from scum or incorrect, but... definitely find that potential odd. But maybe it's better to use it fast instead, idk.

Next, I am more than happy to submit to any additional investigations or lie detecting. Seriously! If any of our snoops do have any Shine left, it could be interesting to get an additional result on me to clear up some things or see if MMT's snoop is legitimate or insane or whatever. I would very much like to live to see tonight as I have an idea of what to do with the final Shine I have left, to answer a question or two, but understandably I get that that may be hard to take on faith.

Which, next point: alright, let's say I'm scum. I'm not, but allowing that possibility for a moment... what? I invite someone to a masonry, and that's it? Legit, help me out there. Converting up to three people to scum would be absurd, I doubt it's any sort of secret lover situation - and my flavor at least doesn't make me think I'm insane in some way or form. Obviously if I'm scum I'm a vote for the scum team, and could potentially process the NK, but I doubt we're in a must lynch or lose situation. (We probably have, what, 3-5 scum?) Give me a night is all I ask for, and if the situation hasn't changed, come right back and lynch me tomorrow, certainly. (On the flipside of this argument, as a townie, I also acknowledge losing an unconfirmed masonry isn't the hugest deal either, which, I don't have a rebuttal to. I do understanding lynching me today seems the right move, but I know it's wrong.)

Finally, because I know someone will ask: my thoughts on scum?
-Hum/Xad: Not a whole ton of content from either and has been super lowkey. Same to sniper, honestly.
-I still strongly think between TMM or Bif, at least - at least! - one of them are scum.
-Gaspy keeps pinging my radar, hard, and I really don't like you went ahead and took my comments out of context earlier. But I know you've been cleared, twice over apparently, but I'd stil lwatch you closely.
-MMT, maybe, after going back through her posting, but I also won't be surprised if there's some sort of result fuckery going on.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


King Burgundy posted:

So I have more scum picks right now then are probably in this game, but I want to point out a couple things.

Why is no one paying attention to Xad? The part where he seemingly isn't on anyone's radar bothers me, especially given how he responded to the events of last night. He posted the minimum and went away. Look at how he posted previous to that, being so comfortable posting that he somehow forgot I was in the game having posted less than half a day before.

I think my most likely scenario is still the Xad/Bif thing, and I guess SS3P is the third. If there are four scum, I think the fourth is probably Sniper. I feel like his unnatural response to a failed action is still very representative of scum thinking and is the person I'm most sure is scum based only on posting.

Having said that, I can see scenarios where IS is the scum who did the kill last night. TMM is a scum who changed up his whole playstyle and is gambiting about the N0 flip being absorbable(note how little he's actually participating in the scum hunting now or theorizing, mostly sitting back and correcting people who aren't posting in his format). Gaspy is playing way differently then he did as town in my last game, which I found odd. So I could slot one of these folks in somewhere.

I was gonna cop sniper/xad last night and changed to sniper/ss3p last minute, Xad is on my list of people where I donít really have a strong read yet

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Looking at the claimed N2 actions

Asphyxious - gave item to max
Bifauxnen - jailed - action failed
Hal Incandenza - protect beet
hambeet - snoop bif - action failed
IllegallySober - gave item to SL
King Burgundy - jailed sniper with item
Max - snoop bif - failed action
Mr. Humalong/Xad - jailed bif
Murmur Twin - snooped sniper - failed, snooped SS3P
sniper4625 - jailed - action failed
Social Studies 3rd Period - gossip max
TMMadman - awaken the oxen

So it looks like the only person would could have killed SL was IS. However one of the jailed people could have broken out or one of Max/beet could be scum with bif and are using her jail as cover.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I'm still trying to resolve no night kill night 1 from the scum.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Max posted:

I'm still trying to resolve no night kill night 1 from the scum.

I think both kills must've targeted BK. There is no other option given the claims on the table.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Mafia edit: Er, both kills must've targeted Asiina.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Or someone's lying, but a Ninja is the only option in that case, right?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Max posted:

Or someone's lying, but a Ninja is the only option in that case, right?

Well no, that's kinda what I'm saying. Since no kill was blocked, the only blocker is Hal and he claims he would know if someone got hit. So both kills had to hit Asiina, meaning one of the kills had to be a ninja since it wasn't announced.

I guess the other alternative, since Hal didn't seem to realize he was BP until he reviewed his PM, is that his BP was hit on N1 when he protected. But since that is shine based, surely he'd know?

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


King Burgundy posted:

It's interesting how you both ignore how many caveats I put out there as well as how obviously this is my perspective. MMT was already a town read as is evidenced by my inspiring her. So yes, obviously I have no doubts about MMT following through with what she said she would do. And you point out the bold bit as not feeling right, when I myself said I wasn't sure it was and made my own theory about why it was wrong.

What I find most interesting though, is Bif doesn't come forward with her own theory about who did the kill. Which definitely makes her look bad to me. She even says she made her own chart up, but, nothing?

No I didn't ignore that, KB. I stated it pretty clearly up front how that statement had a lot of caveats. The problem is, even despite all that, you're practically ignoring one whole branch of the possible explanations: claimed Snoops could be scum.

I didn't continue to go on to explain "my own theory" about the kill though, because noticing this didn't actually make me think you were wrong about it being IS or Hal. It didn't make me think that Beet, Max, or MT were actually more likely to have done the kill. It made me think you could be scum, who's slipping that you already know all the snoops are town.

So it's helpful to see this is how you reacted. Instead of doing your reasonable and logical thing, to note down that possibility that you skipped over, you're acting like having a town read on someone is good enough to not go over it. And whining at me all "you ignored my caaaaveats!" when lol, no I did not.

"It's obviously just my personal perspective!" (see bolded part above.. lol you even said "obviously" twice, wonder what Gaspy thinks about that) well, it's one you put forward as trying to sound fairly objective, by working through all the possibilities of what could have possibly happened last night:

King Burgundy posted:

We have a lot of provable actions last night that kind of narrow who the killer could be.

would vote KB after SS3P.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Well, you use shine if you want to use the role no matter what, even if nothing happens.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Max posted:

I'm still trying to resolve no night kill night 1 from the scum.

I'm wondering if there are two SKs and a cult

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Being extra paranoid, I guess a third option is maybe the scum all have some kind of godfather ability that is only active when they aren't doing the kill, so they deliberately withheld N1 thinking that might be extra important given their skillset.

Max posted:

Well, you use shine if you want to use the role no matter what, even if nothing happens.

Well, did he even use it if he's claiming now to have just realized the BP part?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



TMMadman posted:

I'm wondering if there are two SKs and a cult

Paranoia is not evidence.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd


Murmur Twin posted:

Same here - work is slammed (it’s a holiday and they didn’t schedule anyone beyond the skeleton Monday crew) and then I have class and I barely slept last night.

I’ll give the game a read / respond in a few hours but today (and probably tomorrow) I’m going to be somewhat limited re: time I have to play

My gut reads right now are that the scum exist in the pool of TMM, IS, SS3P, and sniper.

Looks like I'm not the only one slammed on a "holiday."

KB I can understand where you're coming from with regards to my posting last night if it was that that far removed from typical town protocol on when to claim no target - all I can offer to that is the truth: the posts were the results of a travel tired player who doesn't always realize what is expected of someone in his position, nothing more.

A more thorough post on the actual cases at hand to come when I'm not hurriedly phone posting at work.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



King Burgundy posted:

Being extra paranoid, I guess a third option is maybe the scum all have some kind of godfather ability that is only active when they aren't doing the kill, so they deliberately withheld N1 thinking that might be extra important given their skillset.


Well, did he even use it if he's claiming now to have just realized the BP part?

I really wish I knew what sort of results Solus was getting, because the Migrant or not migrant aligned result is so specific on that front.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


I've also been wondering if SS3G is going to take out everyone in the masonry when lynched.

And then I started wondering if MMT was in on it, but I don't think the numbers work there unless it's a 4 person scum team AND item she got wasn't a role block but some kind of vig.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




King Burgundy posted:

Well no, that's kinda what I'm saying. Since no kill was blocked, the only blocker is Hal and he claims he would know if someone got hit. So both kills had to hit Asiina, meaning one of the kills had to be a ninja since it wasn't announced.

I guess the other alternative, since Hal didn't seem to realize he was BP until he reviewed his PM, is that his BP was hit on N1 when he protected. But since that is shine based, surely he'd know?

Iíd know because it would use a shine and it didnít. Iím positive no one attacked either of my protects

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Hey sniper have you posted your claim in the format I wanted?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Oh your shine use is conditional?

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3978 days!


Max posted:

Paranoia is not evidence.

If it was, I'd be the best mafia player ever.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Bifauxnen posted:

No I didn't ignore that, KB. I stated it pretty clearly up front how that statement had a lot of caveats. The problem is, even despite all that, you're practically ignoring one whole branch of the possible explanations: claimed Snoops could be scum.

I didn't continue to go on to explain "my own theory" about the kill though, because noticing this didn't actually make me think you were wrong about it being IS or Hal. It didn't make me think that Beet, Max, or MT were actually more likely to have done the kill. It made me think you could be scum, who's slipping that you already know all the snoops are town.

So it's helpful to see this is how you reacted. Instead of doing your reasonable and logical thing, to note down that possibility that you skipped over, you're acting like having a town read on someone is good enough to not go over it. And whining at me all "you ignored my caaaaveats!" when lol, no I did not.

"It's obviously just my personal perspective!" (see bolded part above.. lol you even said "obviously" twice, wonder what Gaspy thinks about that) well, it's one you put forward as trying to sound fairly objective, by working through all the possibilities of what could have possibly happened last night:


would vote KB after SS3P.

So, if you aren't scum this game. I expect an apology that you suck so bad at reading me that you have fabricated a new KB that wouldn't post like I am right now. :) But I think you are likely scum so its water under the bridge.

To be clear about your scum picks then. You currently think it is SS3P, Me, and IS. And despite thinking IS did the kill tonight, you want to do me next. Got it.

  • Locked thread