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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Oh dear.

Breaking hiatus to play shine I guess :ohdearsass:

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


hambeet posted:

"I gotta say, having different sleeping schedules to the rest of the caravan makes conversation interesting" beetholomew says to no-one in particular

Good morning!

I haven’t mafia’ed for a few months now, has anything major changed that I need to know about?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


TMMadman posted:

I vote we get stuck in a mountain pass during a snowstorm and we are forced to eat Beetholomew and Jaspy in order to stay alive.

This is definitely TMMs scum game, I’m sure of it ##vote tmm

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

morning all

looks like Australians are winning jokephase so far, noice. let's try and lock it in

##vote MT

I am quite concerned by her lack of engagement in our roleplaying session

Haha I read it while I was at work which wasn't enough time for me to write anything - I kept getting tripped up on you referring to me as "ma'am" even though my character is male and was going to riff off of that, but "on my phone and in 20 minute increments" isn't really my style. And then I got home and people were mafia'ing already.

King Burgundy posted:

And only specifically one flavor of them. :) I'm still assuming this was your normal starting nonsense pressure thing, but if its not, this is not a thing to hang your hat on.

Having said that. MMT is pretty quiet so far.

Also just so it's out there: I'm currently working full time + taking classes, Mondays and Tuesdays in particular are going to be busy days for me. I'm not going to lurk or anything but I'd like people to be understanding of that.

I've skimmed the game, I'm going to sleep soon but I'm gonna be here until I pass out.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asiina posted:

Why either of those opinions, really.

Assuming they're both real reads.

It's like 99% a joke, I've opened up a whole bunch of games with a d1 vote on TMM for flimsy reasoning.

To be fair: the last time I did it was here and I did feel like he reacted pretty scummily to it in that game (he was scum). So there was an element of "how will TMM react to this obvious jokevote?" and so far I don't think I see anything that seems particularly out-of-character for town TMM. To me, his "I think one of KB or MMT is scum" read more like him being off-the-cuff because it's D1.

Asiina posted:

This is a good post.

Max is my buddy in this game again.

##vote Madman

This is a real vote.

Can you sell me on the Madman case?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


BottleKnight posted:

It reads to me as a scum saying “I might join this case, but only later, to make it clear that if it’s a mislynch it was NOT my fault!”

—-

Well I suppose if bif is scum she already knows it would be a mislynch, which only makes the hedge more calculating.

(phoneposting until further notice)

##vote bk

BKs case on Bif feels faked to me, like he decided to call her scum and then reverse-engineered a reason. I’m not sure I buy that anyone would think Bif’s early d1 vote on TMM was “calculated” and required hedging, and I disagree with his assessment that his not knowing her opinion there (again, on early d1) is suspicious at all.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

sweet I was wondering when you'd have time to chime in, MT!

uh, just to correct you though, I never did in fact vote for TMM.

I did vote for MMT for a bit though :v:

Haha fair, I usually go out of my way to mention when I’m phoneposting because I’m usually skimming instead of deep reading.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I just got home and haven't read much of anything, diving in now and I should be around until deadline.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Driving back home, will be around for deadline and will catch up then.

:j::respek::v:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


SolusLunes posted:

After re-reading this, I guess I want to look at it again.

I still get a scummy gut feeling from beek, and I let it color my entire reading of their slapfight.

---

I agree with this. I would really like to see what more Beek has to say before deadline.

---

The more I re-read TMMs posts, the more and more the later posts seem scummy.

---

oh well that's good

I really want to hear what Beek has to say because him and TMM are my two major scum reads

OK before I delve into other stuff I'm going to go ahead and ##vote SolusLunes because these are not the posts of someone engaged in trying to hunt scum. Like he's not making any effort to sell people on cases, his posts read like someone who is putting opinions out there because he knows he has to.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


IcePhoenix posted:

o before e

Anyways, I'm just sick of people deciding my votes ping them on day one. It's always "IcePhoenix seems like they're overjustifying maybe scum??? :thunk:" and then I just vote with a short justification and it's "IcePhoenix is clearly trying to start a bandwagon, scum???? :thunk" and then if I'm out of thread and see a case that's good and agree with it and vote on it it's "Oh is IcePhoenix bussing? SCUM????????!??!!??!?!?!?! :thunk::thunk::thunk:" and I just don't know what you assholes want from me anymore, and it's really annoying because I would just like to play the whole mafia game instead of constantly defending myself on day one which inevitably carries over to the next days because now I'm a target.

This reads like genuine frustration to me and makes me lean town on IP. Also my gut says that if he were scum he'dve vented this in his scumdoc instead of the thread.

Also just to save time, my gut is fairly certain that Bif is town who was frustrated by BK tunneling on her.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asiina posted:

I'm honestly still feeling BK because what was scummy to me wasn't his confusion with Bif, but the fact that it looked like he'd decided she was scum and everything she did was scum, and that one thing doesn't change that for me.

Haha there are people - and I'm not going to name names - who sometimes, as town, get overconfident in their early cases and develop tunnel vision where they start to see everything someone does as scummy. :ohdearsass:

I feel like that's what their argument reads as to me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


IllegallySober posted:

I think the second attempt at the explanation comes off better than the first, for sure, and if anything I think the immediate attempt at clarification here after the first big quote-post is a point in Solus’ favor as opposed to against:


---

Between the two (BK/Bif), I think Bif comes off very aggressive (as per usual) and BK seems to over-justify as the conversation continues on. I think I have more of a town lean on BK and a more null read on Bif (as aggression is her usual style) as opposed to a scum read on either one.

---

Re-reading Hal he’s essentially a blank slate to me as far as any kind of strong opinions thus far.

I disagree with [MMT's] opinion here re: BK, but at least she’s got an explanation for her thought process. And she did mention beforehand that early-week was tough for her and is catching up now, so we’ll see what that leads to.

I’m not sure where else to go right now. Somebody want to sell me on a case that isn’t BK, for the moment?

I'm not sure I buy that IS has

(a) read enough of the game to form opinions on Solus, BK, Bif, Hal, and myself...
(b) ...without finding a single person suspicious enough to case.

I'd be fine voting either IS or Solus today.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Murmur Twin posted:

I'm not sure I buy that IS has

(a) read enough of the game to form opinions on Solus, BK, Bif, Hal, and myself...
(b) ...without finding a single person suspicious enough to case.

Basically, IS'es posting reads like my posting when I'm scum, behind on a game, and have that scummy self-consciousness where everyone seems town and I can't think of any fake cases.

Honestly I feel stronger about IS than I do about Solus, but I don't want to start pushing a new target close to deadline if people aren't around.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Ah since people are here I'm going to ##vote IS and be the change I want to see in the world.

I'm watching tv but will be keeping an eye on the thread.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asphyxious posted:

I’ve just reread illegallysober and I’m not seeing it, from peoples description I was expecting a bit of Dick Bastardly “clearly not reading the thread properly thought salad” kinda stuff but it wasn’t really there. The only thing that looks even kinda bad is asking for other cases, which just left me feeling kinda ehh.

Asiina posted:

Yeah, I look at IS and it's not the strongest case. He looks like he's trying, even if his reads are basically a bunch of town ones.

---

I'm not sure where MMT got the idea that he hasn't read that much of the game. It makes me hmmm for her to describe it that way. Not enough to vote today, but definitely a little suspicious.

Someone quote me his strongest case / scum read.

I don't see anyone can write off "even if his alignment calls are basically a bunch of town reads" as no big deal.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


TMMadman posted:

One last thing, I am also concerned about Asiina. She feels off to me in this game.

I feel like she doesn't have a town wincon.

Is there a reason you phrased it as 'doesn't have a town wincon' instead of 'is scum'?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I feel pretty strongly that

- IS is scum
- IP is the patsy (scummiest looking town)
- the reason that people aren't looking at IS with more suspicion is that he has a scumteam helping him out

I have probably ten more minutes or so before I pass out.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asiina posted:

He gives his opinions on the major happenings of the day, but doesn't find any of them particularly scummy (namely Madman, BK, Bif, and Solus). He looks at a few other people on his own, but doesn't find much there. But his reads to seem like he's actually paying attention to the thread.

I mean, it's not like there's been any super strong cases D1, so yeah I'm fine with a bunch of "I dunno, none of it is standing out to me." It's not great, but I don't particularly read it as scummy.

IS, what do you think of IP?

How do you think his reads would look any different if he were scum?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


TMMadman posted:

Hey MMT, since you asked about it. Do you have a town wincon?

I do.

To be clear, I think that "doesn't have a town wincon" is something that scum would say (since they know who isn't scum but not who is 3P) whereas "is scum" is something that town would say (since their default mode is to hunt for scum). But I don't want to start a derail on another case this close to deadline.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asiina posted:

Name names.

I don't see how you can strongly think IS is scum for not providing good reads but IP is a patsy...for not providing reads at all.

IP's sin is basically just lurking. It's not inherently suspicious to me. I'm sometimes quiet at the start of D1 and I definitely got frustrated as poo poo when I first started playing Mafia when people would case me seemingly no matter what I said. I think that the momentum on him doesn't justify the strength of the case.

IS went out of his way to make it look like he was searching through the thread looking for scum, and shared with us his observations - but he didn't find anyone to call suspicious. I think that it specifically looks like IS is trying to go out of his way to appear town despite not actually seeming to have any interest in hunting for scum, and I think that the only reason to say "I can't find any cases" (instead of just making a case that might be wrong) is that he's self-conscious scum.

BottleKnight posted:

Do you have any examples? Because I’m not really feeling IP or IS for scum and this is the part of your post that pokes out to me the most

Nah, I'd rather keep the focus on IS and this feels like a derail.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


IllegallySober posted:

But I wasn’t “giving up” on anything and to describe it as such is frustrating when I’ve been trying to contribute in and around an otherwise-lovely day for me today (which I try not to point out anymore after having been accused of using that to hide from giving reads in previous games. C’est la vie)

Regardless of what I think your alignment in an internet game is, I'm sorry you've had a lovely day and I hope things get improve :glomp:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


IcePhoenix posted:

Every post I make is scummy so I'm taking Hal's advice and just not posting

Can you quote where Hal gave this advice?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Murmur Twin posted:

Can you quote where Hal gave this advice?

If IP doesn't answer this question I'm ok with moving my vote.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Hal Incandenza posted:

Wow I mean you can do what I do and just ignore them

But overjustifying votes is definitely a thing scum do

IcePhoenix posted:

Every post I make is scummy so I'm taking Hal's advice and just not posting

How did you get "just don't post" out of "ignore the people falsely accusing you of being scum"?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


##vote IcePhoenix

I don't think IS is going to happen and I want to go to sleep.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


##vote BK

BK, want to claim your action from last night?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Podima posted:

...As the wagon train got underway some time later, everyone agreed that the parrot had indeed been delicious.[/i]

:lol:

quote:

Today's execution method is Standard Majority. A 1-Shot bonus will be available at some point during the day.

I'll ##unvote because there's no need to rush things but definitely think BK is the no-brainer vote for today.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


TMMadman posted:

##vote Max

Is this like a symbolic gesture or do you actually think Max is the right person to execute today?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

someone needs to run a mafia game with flavour based on the cooking frg. I wanna see someone claim EAT PUNCHBEEF

Haha that was the first thing I thought of when we ate the parrot :peanut:

Asiina posted:

:ghost: Go....LITERALLY NONE OF YOU! YOU ATE MY BIRD, I HOPE YOU ALL DIE!! :ghost:

:sadpeanut:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Asphyxious posted:

Rereading BK he mentions he’d vote for IP but that he thought he was town (which now makes sense), what’s interesting is he doesn’t engage with the IS case at all just says he feels better voting for IP, despite thinking he’s both town and being genuine.

Murmur Twin posted:

I feel pretty strongly that

- IS is scum
- IP is the patsy (scummiest looking town)
- the reason that people aren't looking at IS with more suspicion is that he has a scumteam helping him out

I have probably ten more minutes or so before I pass out.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


sniper4625 posted:

Also interested in this.

If it helps, Ghost of Asiina...we freed the spirit of your parrot to join you in the afterlife? You're welcome.

MMT I'd like to know why you felt so strongly that IS is scum (and I gather still do?) Rereading his posts he gave at least cursory thoughts on a few people as he seemed able, and it didn't seem like he was necessarily rushing to hop on the IP bus until the end.

(a) Anyone can give cursory thoughts, it's not like scum players just sit there quietly until they're picked off (unless they're me :eng99:)
(b) I believe that not having scum reads is a scum tell. It's a lot harder to accuse people of being scum if you already know who the team is
(c) When I looked at the d1 vote, I thought that it was abnormal how much more suspicious IP (whose frustration seemed genuine to me) looked to people than IS, which to me was easily explained by people using suspicion on IP to mask having to have an opinion on IS. Pretty much like BK did.

OK gotta go to class, back in a few hours.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

I had a similar power in a different shine game. It was a shine power so it was limited, but I would broadcast the names of people that visited me every night. Making it a recurring normal role would be kind of OP against scum.

I also had this ability in Shine 1, I believe it was called "loudmouth" then.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


But yeah, I think BK and IS are scum.

The only thing stopping me from saying "let's just vote BK, end the day, and see what happens from there" is that Pod mentioned a one-of bonus being offered this game day and I want to see what's up with that.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Murmur Twin posted:

(phoneposting until further notice)

##vote bk

BKs case on Bif feels faked to me, like he decided to call her scum and then reverse-engineered a reason. I’m not sure I buy that anyone would think Bif’s early d1 vote on TMM was “calculated” and required hedging, and I disagree with his assessment that his not knowing her opinion there (again, on early d1) is suspicious at all.

IllegallySober posted:

This is the only substantive post by MMT I can find:

I disagree with her opinion here re: BK, but at least she’s got an explanation for her thought process. And she did mention beforehand that early-week was tough for her and is catching up now, so we’ll see what that leads to.

I’m not sure where else to go right now. Somebody want to sell me on a case that isn’t BK, for the moment?

IS: what about my opinion of BK did you disagree with? What's your opinion of him now?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I’m going to sleep but will ##search

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I am here for the foreseeable future (as I just finished working a half-hour shift, lol).

I found a Singed Lasso as a result of the search. It gives me a one-shot roleblock.

There wasn't much flavor at all, other than it being found in the remains of a burned up barn. I'm honestly not sure what people are referring to but welcome any questions / information that anyone might have.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


hambeet posted:

Yeah there's no point stringing this out.

Max posted:

Swinging in the breeze here.

Asphyxious posted:

Gonna be a real barnburner!

Mafia is no place for puns :colbert:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


TMMadman posted:

I'm coming around on the idea that BK is actually scum and if he is then I think MMT/Gaspy are scum with him. It's also possible that IS is scum too and MMT went for a double bus, but that seems a bit risky.

I feel confident that Gaspy is town. I'm having a lot of trouble making an alignment call on TMM because

(a) he's giving me the impression that he's scumhunting / putting thought and work in, but
(b) I don't agree with any of the conclusions that he's coming to

I'm suspicious of the fact that TMM has had so much to say about Max (who doesn't seem suspicious to me) and then me, while barely having anything to say about the contents of the case on IS. Here are some posts in a nutshell that sum up my case there:

BottleKnight posted:

Do you have any examples? Because I’m not really feeling IP or IS for scum and this is the part of your post that pokes out to me the most

When I was casing IS, BK says that he disagrees with my scum read there, but doesn't really explain any reasons regarding why. He later votes for IP, despite saying he has a town read there as well.

Full disclosure: I'm internally already assuming that BK is scum who NK'ed Asiina n1.

IllegallySober posted:

I disagree with her opinion here re: BK, but at least she’s got an explanation for her thought process. And she did mention beforehand that early-week was tough for her and is catching up now, so we’ll see what that leads to.

I’m not sure where else to go right now. Somebody want to sell me on a case that isn’t BK, for the moment?

---

I disagreed with your opinion of BK because you were suspicious of him and I read him for town at that point. That’s pretty much the extent of it, although I did say you at least had an explanation to back up your point of view.

When I was casing BK, IS says that he disagrees with my scum read there, but doesn't really explain any reasons regarding why. Even when I asked him why he disagreed with me, he didn't really go into any sort of detail.

TMM: in a hypothetical world where BK is dayvigged right now, flips scum, and this game day continues, who would your strongest suspect be?

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Also I'm down to get this show on the road. ##vote BK

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