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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Eh while I'm not fond of their pre-release approach to Rebirth I also can't entirely fault them cos it's not like they're rolling in money. I'd probably do the same thing, cos yeah I'm amazed they're still in business given the work and time gap between X3 and X4. I don't really know how else they could have done it other than cashing in, somewhat unfairly, on brand appeal.

They did put a lot of post-release work into Rebirth and much of it for free, so I'm not left with the impression they're treating people shittily out of pure greed.

So yeah I'm entirely willing to buy this on release. Again helped by the fact that I did enjoy my time with Rebirth even if it's not a very good X game.

Orv posted:

I am a little put off to hear that some of the old school races are going to be full on expansion territory, like I guess no Split to start with? But yeah, it's not like I'm not going to buy it the moment I hear enough people say "Well it's not garbage..." so whatever.

Boron obviously present problems with physiology, no idea how they'd even translate over to the new system where NPCs are things other than 90's as hell CGI clips.

Split though yeah were in Rebirth so they're definitely possible, but they had very little content to go with them so it's not a big leap between making paranids and making a proper split faction.

I admit though I'm not sad because I really like the look of paranid ships.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Oct 1, 2018

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Jesustheastronaut!
Mar 9, 2014






Lipstick Apathy

Their website says there's going to be two expansions released (2019 and the other " sometime later"). With how much of X3 theyre cramming into the new X4 engine, I'm excited to see how this game plays after 2 expansions and all the community releases that will no doubt be available at that point as well.

Siets
Sep 19, 2006

by FactsAreUseless


I've been wanting a space flight sim that does what it can to essentially be Elite: Dangerous with a slightly livelier universe and more gameplay features. This really looks like it could actually be that ticket.

Question: is this going to be a game where I can chill in my captain's quarters ala Picard and look out the window as I fly only to get paged to the bridge when we receive an incoming signal? I know this is kind of a dumb thing to want and its really not an actual gameplay loop or anything, but damnit if it isn't something I've wanted even more from a space flight sim than going from orbit to surface.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Siets posted:

Question: is this going to be a game where I can chill in my captain's quarters ala Picard and look out the window as I fly only to get paged to the bridge when we receive an incoming signal? I know this is kind of a dumb thing to want and its really not an actual gameplay loop or anything, but damnit if it isn't something I've wanted even more from a space flight sim than going from orbit to surface.

We don't really know, the whole ships having interiors thing is really quite new for X4, even from the previous game which introduced the technology.

It sounds like you can do a lot of management and sit and watch as your NPCs fly stuff around, but we won't know for sure. X3 involves a lot of management but you did it all through clunky menus from your cockpit, no interiors.

I too am hopeful though because yes I also enjoy that kind of feel in games. Best to wait and see on launch.

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

If you never played X3 then the gameplay loop was: Start as single ship/small wing which you use to trade/fight/explore/salvage/etc. until you can afford to hire ships to do them with/for you. Repeat until you have a massive fleet and enough money to build stations to create your own products from said trading/mining/etc. Repeat until you have more stations, more fleets, and steadily became lord high baron over the galaxy.

So, if they add automated piloting to their walking in ships thing then you could probably just hang out and watch your empire go about its thing.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Rynoto posted:

If you never played X3 then the gameplay loop was: Start as single ship/small wing which you use to trade/fight/explore/salvage/etc. until you can afford to hire ships to do them with/for you. Repeat until you have a massive fleet and enough money to build stations to create your own products from said trading/mining/etc. Repeat until you have more stations, more fleets, and steadily became lord high baron over the galaxy.

So, if they add automated piloting to their walking in ships thing then you could probably just hang out and watch your empire go about its thing.

Yeah this. There's lots of managing to do but I don't know how they're going to implement it. The player HQ being a central thing is very nice because that came very late in X3, and it certainly seems like it fits with you having a home base to come back to and do your managing from.

Really the interior system would be great if it let you set up a bunch of terminals on different aspects of your empire and used the 3d space to let you move between them intuitively rather than having to page through menus. A good use of the tech. But we'll have to see what they do with it.

Even just being able to look out the window would be nice though rather than having to sit with SETA on and never joggle the mouse.

Orv
May 4, 2011


Siets posted:

I've been wanting a space flight sim that does what it can to essentially be Elite: Dangerous with a slightly livelier universe and more gameplay features. This really looks like it could actually be that ticket.

Question: is this going to be a game where I can chill in my captain's quarters ala Picard and look out the window as I fly only to get paged to the bridge when we receive an incoming signal? I know this is kind of a dumb thing to want and its really not an actual gameplay loop or anything, but damnit if it isn't something I've wanted even more from a space flight sim than going from orbit to surface.


OwlFancier posted:

We don't really know, the whole ships having interiors thing is really quite new for X4, even from the previous game which introduced the technology.

It sounds like you can do a lot of management and sit and watch as your NPCs fly stuff around, but we won't know for sure. X3 involves a lot of management but you did it all through clunky menus from your cockpit, no interiors.

I too am hopeful though because yes I also enjoy that kind of feel in games. Best to wait and see on launch.

So as far as we can tell from the streams and stuff they've done, multicrew ships will have a bridge that you can stand on (sadly taking a chair seems to insert you as the pilot, so no Bridge Commander shenanigans) and issue every order in the game without ever taking direct control. However even the larger multicrew ships that they've shown are basically just corridors leading to each interaction - hangers, landing pads, cockpit, cargo - and there's not really any leisure room on even the huge ships. That might change of course.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Orv posted:

However even the larger multicrew ships that they've shown are basically just corridors leading to each interaction - hangers, landing pads, cockpit, cargo - and there's not really any leisure room on even the huge ships. That might change of course.

Booo.

This was a problem in Rebirth too, there's nowhere for you to just sit and be while your ships do their thing. Much worse there of course cos you literally sat on the landing pad.

Still, hopefully your station at least gives you an office.

I suppose if all else fails you can go sit in one of your ships.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Oct 2, 2018

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Yeah, in X3, you tended to have your own luxury yacht type ship that you personally flew while you ran your empire. That ship was usually something like a Hyperion vanguard or a springblossom. The nicer M6 class ships tended to have a good balance between power and mobility.

I personally often did personnel transport missions in something like the claimable iguana vanguard, while working to earn enough for a small fleet of automated trader mistrals. After that came my own TL ship, and then the station building began. I usually started with 1 MJ shields for easy money.

I will say that streamlining station building in X4 looks really nice. Modless complexes in X3 were a horrible mess of pipes and slowdowns.

Eventually you get your own big missile complex going and go on rampages wiping out anybody who opposes you.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


That would, actually, be a really neat feature for luxury craft, an office suite I forgot about M6 being used for that, I think I ended up in the paranid M7 which IIRC could dock a fighter.]

That's something I hope they change too, actually, the ship classes.

Because:

M1 - Carrier
M2 - Destroyer
M3 - Heavy Fighter
M4 - Interceptor
M5 - Scout
M6 - Corvette
M7 - Frigate
M8 - Bomber

Is an atrocity.

Obviously it's cos they kept having to add numbers on as they brought more ship classes in but hopefully they get a better system going forward.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 2, 2018

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

The ariadne(M7C) was a fantastic primary ship with all of its drones and ability to carry along a ts.

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006


I think Rebirth after the DLC and patches was a decent game, it just wasn't as good as X3, especially when it came to end game shenannigans. I understand before that though it was a complete mess.

Also I think they said they're using size like rebirth with a role description for ship classes, so stuff like small fighter and medium transport and so on.

Bettik
Jan 28, 2008

Space-age Rock Star


I'll pre-order this to make sure these delightful germans have enough cash to keep working on these bizarre games. It'll prolly be a mess on release but I'll play it a bit then and fall properly down the rabbit hole a year or so after release, with an expansion or two.

It really does look great though. I don't dare hope this comes out working smoothly but if it does - that'll be very hazardous to my free time.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




I'm sure I'll be terrible at this like all the other X series games and yet they'll still get my money unless it's a complete abomination on release.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Pylons posted:

Boy I hope my computer can run this.

This is my concern as well. The game is super beautiful looking and the X series has always been hardware pushing to the extreme.

Bettik
Jan 28, 2008

Space-age Rock Star


I'd forgotten all about this, but they actually did a live presentation in august '17 where they shared a bunch of live gameplay. The UI looks rougher than in the recent trailer but it shows stuff actually working more than a year ago. That's a bit encouraging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeYbb0hf10U#t=512s
(the video should start right at the beginning of live playthrough stuff.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007



are the aliens still all goofy looking.

if not WHY

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.



I’m sure I will get this and be terrible at it like all the other X games but somehow enjoy it. Can’t wait.

Mandatory Assembly
May 25, 2008

it's time to get juche


Lipstick Apathy

Are these games enjoyable enough for a filthy casual with a mouse and keyboard who has no plans to buy a joystick?

Stevefin
Sep 30, 2013



Mandatory Assembly posted:

Are these games enjoyable enough for a filthy casual with a mouse and keyboard who has no plans to buy a joystick?

Mouse and keyboard is mandatory cause what the X series is menus hidden under a space sim

I for one am hopeful this time around cause I did like X3, I just could not get through its clunky UI so I just shipped around until I died

By the looks of it they are keeping with the BSG like combat effects rebirth had, I am totally fine with that cause they can look amazing given the right circumstances, and I am pretty sure I did share a picture of that years ago in the old thread

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Yeah X games are definitely designed with M&K in mind, previously you could play them with joystick but it wasn't great because, as mentioned, the menus are a pain.

Supposedly they added better joystick support and Rebirth was playable with a joypad, I think, but yeah M&K is probably still best.

Bettik posted:

I'd forgotten all about this, but they actually did a live presentation in august '17 where they shared a bunch of live gameplay. The UI looks rougher than in the recent trailer but it shows stuff actually working more than a year ago. That's a bit encouraging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeYbb0hf10U#t=512s
(the video should start right at the beginning of live playthrough stuff.

This is cool, not seen this.

But it does remind me of one of my other favorite Rebirth features which is the gravity well for capital ships, where if you get close to one, your ship takes on its frame of reference and moves with it, it makes it really cool to fly around them in motion, and that would be super cool with a smaller player ship or the space suit.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Oct 2, 2018

limaCAT
Dec 22, 2007

il pistone e male


Slippery Tilde


Yes, this looks like exactly what I would like to play.

Can you supplant/substitute the existing empires in the X series? Or make them your puppets.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


limaCAT posted:

Yes, this looks like exactly what I would like to play.

Can you supplant/substitute the existing empires in the X series? Or make them your puppets.

Not in previous games but it sounds like it might be possible to a larger degree in this one. No formal diplomatic interface but presumably you could blow up all their stuff and build your own.

Before you could blow up a sector but it wouldn't really change ownership, and you couldn't wipe out factions entirely, they'd eventually just spawn in ships. You might still have that if you try to entirely wipe someone out. Certainly economically you can build similar empires to the starting ones and field enough ships to fight them militarily.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life


This is actually looking real loving good. Let's see how canned and bad the space legs is though

Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

X3 had a mod that stretched the game to its limits and allowed the npc empires to produce fleets for fighting over sectors as well as letting the player get involved in taking land.

Hopes and dreams that it'll be something built in for this.

Orv
May 4, 2011


That is what they're implying, though how far "dynamic factions" goes I suspect we'll have to wait to find out.

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006


I just hope stuff like the Paranid having two factions at war with each other means they have different ships.

Trustworthy
Dec 28, 2004

with catte-like thread
upon our prey we steal


I'm really curious how they're planning to break up expansion pack content.

Will we see a Split expansion, then Boron? Or will we get a Split-Boron War pack, followed by an inevitable Kha'ak invasion? Can we just skip the whole Terran thing this time around?

It's, like, the least important question at this point, but I like imagining the possibilities.

Garfu
Mar 6, 2008

Much like buttholes, families are meant to be tight.


Please let there be steam workshop integration and robust modding!!

Please let there be steam workshop integration and robust modding!!!!!!!!!

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Well Rebirth has a workshop so it'd be odd if X4 didn't.

Garfu
Mar 6, 2008

Much like buttholes, families are meant to be tight.


Oh, well cool. Being a staunch X3 supporter and addict, I completely ignored Rebirth... so I wasn't aware.

If this game has a rimworld-level modding community it will be the best thing ever.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Looking forward to the Hatsune Miku wallscrolls in the bridge mod.

Jesustheastronaut!
Mar 9, 2014






Lipstick Apathy

My biggest thing as a noob in X3 were ships that I controlled remotely to scout and trade apparently would crash on gates or other ships and take tons of hull damage or get destroyed and then I'd have to spend 20 minutes afk repairing with my suit repair laser. The only way I'd be able to make money early game was harassing enemies until they ejected then take them over. Then it's another half hour of repair laser

E:spelling

Jesustheastronaut! fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 4, 2018

Siets
Sep 19, 2006

by FactsAreUseless


When people say X games are buggy on release, what kinda bugs are we talking? I’m really excited for this game as a first foray into the series, and I normally have a pretty high tolerance for bugs. A lot of the bugs that make people get all on the forums for I tend to just kind of shrug at. Bugs for me have to be stuff like “your 30+ hour game save just got corrupted, have fun starting over!” for me to actually get mad at a game and check out. Really hoping that’s not what we’re potentially in for here.

Orv
May 4, 2011


Siets posted:

When people say X games are buggy on release, what kinda bugs are we talking? I’m really excited for this game as a first foray into the series, and I normally have a pretty high tolerance for bugs. A lot of the bugs that make people get all on the forums for I tend to just kind of shrug at. Bugs for me have to be stuff like “your 30+ hour game save just got corrupted, have fun starting over!” for me to actually get mad at a game and check out. Really hoping that’s not what we’re potentially in for here.

It's nothing that bad. It's mostly mission or script glitches, or the AI doing incredibly dumb things that cost you progress, ships or even your life. It's not as though it's unplayable, barring the occasional progress stopping bug, but because of the nature of the simulation it's a completely chaotic mess that you have basically no control over. Who knows, maybe Egosoft will be one of those companies that puts out a new game in a long-running series that finally fixes all their old mistakes. Liked or not, Rebirth on launch was at least more playable and less glitchy than any of their other launches by a long way.

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006


I'm kinda glad for them apparently turning damage off while you're on autopilot just because I've died so many loving times in X3:TC from autopiloting. So many times.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Jesustheastronaut! posted:

My biggest thing as a noob in X3 were ships that I controlled remotely to scout and trade apparently would crash on gates or other ships and take tons of hull damage or get destroyed and then I'd have to spend 20 minutes afk repairing with my suit repair laser. The only way I'd be able to make money early game was harassing enemies until they ejected then take them over. Then it's another half hour of repair laser

E:spelling

They fixed that for Rebirth actually, ships don't kill themselves and have much better pathfinding in general.

Inverness
Feb 4, 2009

Fully configurable personal assistant.

I'm really glad this is a new engine with a better sector design.

One thing I disliked a lot about X3 (the first game in the series I played) is that the sectors were arranged in a grid and all of the sectors were squares with planets only props in the background that you couldn't approach.

Despite all of the flaws of Rebirth, giving the universe more depth is something I liked a lot.

That being said, I think highways could use an improvement. I never liked how they were just glowing tunnels curving arbitrarily through space without any apparent mechanism to sustain them. That and they blocked the view of the scenery. I think they should be more like the trade lanes from Freelancer where you actually move through the structure, perhaps a ring, that maintains them. Those rings could also be a weak point that could be destroyed to break the highway chain. They could also be something you could build as a player. It should be expensive enough that you need to be a hotshot with a big empire to afford to go to that newly discovered empty system and assemble your own zones and highways to connect them.

Edit: There was a now-defunct mod that did some of what I had in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnl3l_hWziY

Fewd
Mar 22, 2007

#vmp #opsec #kolmiloikka #happoo

OwlFancier posted:

Game releases November 30th 2018

Awesome. I'm so glad Egosoft decided to redeem themselves by taking a few steps back and making this. I never even bought Rebirth and had already thrown Egosoft in the trashcan of bad developers.

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The Butcher
Apr 20, 2005

and it was all going so well...


Nap Ghost

Jesustheastronaut! posted:

Then it's another half hour of repair laser

I deffo remember in either X3 for another early iteration wrapping a hair elastic around my trigger and walking away for awhile.

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