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Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



RBA Starblade posted:

A lot of what X3:AP does is straight better than X4 even now, but the problem is that everything you need to do to get to that stuff is drastically worse

Farnham's Legacy adds some neat stuff but at least at launch the economic sim was fundamentally broken (not even how X3 leaves holes for you to fill, just totally dead), Terran space (if you won the lottery to get the mission for it) was busted, and the dynamic relations were fun but made planning things a real hassle. I wonder if the recent patches made any economies kickstart

I've been playing for a while and even with 5+ of my trade ships covering a region that has both weapons factories and outposts no one has anything in stock. Pathfinding seems weird in general though, if I set a trader to Universe they'll sometimes get stuck on standby/"searching for trade route" but they trade fine if I set them to trade in a sector +5 jumps. Everything worked fine for me until Xenon Ks started appearing in the hub, I think having Xenon in the most travelled sector in the game might just be breaking everything.

Probably the most infuriating bug in FL right now is the one that makes local AI start attacking enemy ships again when you claim them, it seems to happen about half the time if you're fighting in a populated sector and a enemy bails out. All of these are supposed to be fixed in 1.2 along with a bunch of other bugs, though

Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jun 3, 2021

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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


FrickenMoron posted:

I personally think it's a waste of dev time that could be spent making the core of the game better.

It does seem like an extremely weird thing to decide to try to do and certainly I'm not willing to turn mods off for it so it's pretty useless to me. I would be surprised if there is a great deal of interest in it given that it seems a bit out of the scope of the general experience of the game.

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast


I'm not sure what their plan is either. The X series (at least since 3. I don't know about 2) has lived and died on its mod scene.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Travic posted:

I'm not sure what their plan is either. The X series (at least since 3. I don't know about 2) has lived and died on its mod scene.

2 had a bunch of mods too, it's where modding of the series got really started (i.e. the spk format was originally for X2).

Happy Underpants
Jul 23, 2007


I have grown tired of managing modified large miners. I will now use swarms of disposable medium miners, purchased scores at a time, thrown like logs on a fire for all of my mining operations.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


4.10 beta is now available for download!

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=192&t=405397


Pretty big list of changes overall, I'm a bit wary of the changes to fleet delivery missions and danger zones working OOS etc.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



quote:

Fixed attacking capital ships staying outside weapon range.

Improved range and force of container magnet for M, L and XL ships.

sounds good

quote:

Fixed explosions of large objects not doing damage.

I wonder how much damage we're talking about

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



apparently quite a bit lol

thats cool but it makes me want to buy fighter wings even less

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Flavahbeast posted:

apparently quite a bit lol

thats cool but it makes me want to buy fighter wings even less

What X4 really needs is a "fleet designer" option where it basically lets you slap down templates not just of individual ships, but of entire fleets, and then any fleets that are missing pieces will just queue up their own construction orders to refill, like resupplying with drones or missiles. The main thing that makes fighter wings such a pain (aside from the issue that a lot of ships just do not have enough docking bays and so they take forever to deploy all their fighters) is having to manually replace all these ships that are extremely easily killed.

Rakeris
Jul 20, 2014



The Cheshire Cat posted:

What X4 really needs is a "fleet designer" option where it basically lets you slap down templates not just of individual ships, but of entire fleets, and then any fleets that are missing pieces will just queue up their own construction orders to refill, like resupplying with drones or missiles. The main thing that makes fighter wings such a pain (aside from the issue that a lot of ships just do not have enough docking bays and so they take forever to deploy all their fighters) is having to manually replace all these ships that are extremely easily killed.

There is a mod for that! https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2106438676

Ice Fist
Jun 20, 2012

^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^


quote:

Improved flight pathing for small ships docking at Tokyo.

This was driving me insane. I never hung out with my Tokyos insector because of it. Going to have to log in and see how good it is now (it's probably still really bad)

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


The Cheshire Cat posted:

What X4 really needs is a "fleet designer" option where it basically lets you slap down templates not just of individual ships, but of entire fleets, and then any fleets that are missing pieces will just queue up their own construction orders to refill, like resupplying with drones or missiles. The main thing that makes fighter wings such a pain (aside from the issue that a lot of ships just do not have enough docking bays and so they take forever to deploy all their fighters) is having to manually replace all these ships that are extremely easily killed.

My ideal game is X with more cool and weird poo poo to see that can somehow turn into Homeworld for fleet management and combat.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


Give me the Economy side of X and the combat finesse of Starsector. Ideally with the exploration too and colony building.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




I've only seen a bit of X4 when it released, and now it has two expansions? Seems you can get the collector's ed for $55 on steam sales, would you say it's worth it? When my friend was playing he was having a hard time with getting other space stations to build him new ships because every station seemed to be completely out of resources and it was kind of incomprehensible to figure out how to build your own station.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Depends on how much $55 is to you, but I would say the game works a lot better on the whole than it did at the start, it's had some balance passes and stuff to make the economy generally work better, there's some mods you can install to add extra functionality and tweak the feel, and the expansions add some much needed content to the game that it was lacking at launch.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


FWIW, I played 30 hours around launch and shelved it because the game was barebones and kinda broken too. I came back a few weeks ago and got both DLCs and sunk in 300 hours by now. The no resources for ships issue is kinda fixed, hull parts are still an issue for bigger ships but you wont have an issue ordering M/S or L sized ships even. The DLCs add a lot to the game so I really recommend them.

Theres a third DLC in the works even that will focus on piracy and pirate factions.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY


The Collectors Edition is the full game, you really need those DLCs.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Outside Context Problem


FrickenMoron posted:

Give me the Economy side of X and the combat finesse of Starsector. Ideally with the exploration too and colony building.

Just take the flight feel from Elite and transplant it into X4. I doubt Elite would even miss the flight stuff, they certainly aren't doing anything interesting with it.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

Antigravitas posted:

Just take the flight feel from Elite and transplant it into X4. I doubt Elite would even miss the flight stuff, they certainly aren't doing anything interesting with it.

I don't think there's a space game I've played since 2015 where the thought "this would be if they just stole elite's flight model" hasn't intruded at least once a play session, but the monkeys paw would be that they'd take elite's implementation of supercruise too

Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 10, 2021

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


FrickenMoron posted:

Theres a third DLC in the works even that will focus on piracy and pirate factions.

Oh? I hadn't heard about that, any more detailed info?

Antigravitas posted:

Just take the flight feel from Elite and transplant it into X4. I doubt Elite would even miss the flight stuff, they certainly aren't doing anything interesting with it.

Never played elite because the gameplay doesn't look interesting to me but the flight model certainly looks and sounds beautiful in motion. Definitely an area I don't rate X4 in so much. Still haven't really gotten over the change from X3 to rebirth to be honest, X3 wasn't great in a lot of respects but it felt a lot more high stakes which I think made up for it.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Jul 10, 2021

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



I think all that's known about it so far is what's on the German government's declaration page: https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/DE/Artikel/DG/games-projekte/x4-ahoy.html

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


tildes posted:

Is there a good (ideally written?) intro guide for this game? I liked Mount and Blade and Starsector, so this seems potentially pretty up my alley. For some reason I thought it was a literal 4x game.

If you are new to the game, start out by shooting crystals out in the asteroid fields.

You need to motorboat around the rocks and keep an eye out for a flashing light on a asteroid. Once you see it, fly over, shoot the crystal, and pick up the pieces by pressing the 'O' key (not zero, the letter). Once you get enough, head to a station go to the Trader and you can sell them for easy credits.

Or you can do the manual trading thing but crystals are faster way to get some credits to buy a better boat to run around in.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Another good newbie moneymaking tactic is to take station defense or criminal hunting missions - station defense you basically don't have to do anything because the station itself will be more than capable of fighting off whatever the mission spawns in, and the criminal hunting missions just require you to blow up civilian ships that will get flagged as hostile; the biggest threat is missing and accidentally turning the station hostile with friendly fire (if you do this you can just leave the area for a while and eventually it will reset to neutral)

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

A fun thing I tripped across the other day was "buying a ship counts as boarding it" so if you take any of the "And...Action!" pirate missions that require boarding a specific type of ship, you can grab them and treat them as cash-back bonuses for just buying the ship in question


Relatedly, is there any sort of cap on "number of missions taken at the same time"? I've been hoarding ones with no time limit that fall into the category of "I'll probably take care of this, if I'm in the area, with the right stuff, eventually, probably" and hoping that doesn't bite me in the rear end later

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


I wish I could sell some civilian ships to the Yaki since i got some station building missions for them but theyre not really estabilishing their own eco, all ships they order are Moreya and the M ship. I got a mission to build a defense station for them but added a hull part factory on top of it but it's up to me to supply it.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




FrickenMoron posted:

I wish I could sell some civilian ships to the Yaki since i got some station building missions for them but theyre not really estabilishing their own eco, all ships they order are Moreya and the M ship. I got a mission to build a defense station for them but added a hull part factory on top of it but it's up to me to supply it.
Can you build them yourself and then sell the ships to a Yaki shipyard?

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


Zereth posted:

Can you build them yourself and then sell the ships to a Yaki shipyard?

You have to have +10 rep with them just to buy the ship's blueprint and have +20 rep with someone just to buy the S/M ship wharf blueprint to build the ship as well.

Some races may allow you to buy the wharf blueprint at +10 so you have to fly around and check. Don't worry, the wharf blueprint is basically the same, no matter who you buy it from........except for the Terrans. They are special snowflakes.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




No I was suggesting obtaining some basic backbone economics ships through whatever means, and then selling them to the Yaki.

Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012




Zereth posted:

No I was suggesting obtaining some basic backbone economics ships through whatever means, and then selling them to the Yaki.

I wanted to do this but never got around to it before stopping playing X4 for a bit. Would be curious to see. IIRC I remember reading somewhere on the ego forums maybe or the modding discord that the Yaki don't even have economy ai scripts which is why they don't build their own once you clear the sector. So you'd have to only take build missions and heap on a lot of extra modules each time to get an economy. Alternatively, if you're modding, use the sell station mod to sell stations to the Yaki so you can get a more vanilla looking set of stations rather than some huge mega "defense" station because build missions are so rare.

But if I had to guess I think that selling the ships means they'll be taken to the wharf to be disappeared. And since IIRC they don't have a shipyard it means they'll never end up building any kind of fleet or doing any sector taking anyway, so they probably don't even have scripts to do so.

Another option might be using the aforementioned cheat script to transfer ownership of ships to the Yaki without going through the selling procedure which might get them to default to some vanilla routine where they do trading or mining or whatever.

Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 11, 2021

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

So dumb question that I either "can't find a real answer to" or "can't find the right combination of things to look for to answer it":

I've been selling illegal goods, but since the buy requests tend to be small and I don't want my big haulers to be pulled over with 3,000 tons of illegal cargo as they drift slowly from station to station, I'd like to have a weed warehouse with a bunch of storage where my big haulers show up and dump all their poo poo at, and a bunch of small couriers with repeating orders and limited cargo space actually distribute it.

The problem is I can't for the life of me figure out how to do that without babysitting it.
- I can't set up a repeating order to "dump", just "buy" or "sell".
- I can't set up things in the logical view to simultaneously "buy everything that comes in" and "sell everything that comes in"; it seems to only allow for setting a balance point where "below this I'll buy, above it I'll sell".
- I can manually "sell" for 0cr to the station when it has no demand, but the repeating buy/sell orders have a minimum/cap so as soon as it hits the "sell" portion it bounces because 0cr is less than the minimum it's allowed to sell at.


Is there something buried in the UX that I haven't found that allows for this, or is this "esoteric weird approach the game wasn't built to handle" territory

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


Ursine Catastrophe posted:

So dumb question that I either "can't find a real answer to" or "can't find the right combination of things to look for to answer it":

I've been selling illegal goods, but since the buy requests tend to be small and I don't want my big haulers to be pulled over with 3,000 tons of illegal cargo as they drift slowly from station to station, I'd like to have a weed warehouse with a bunch of storage where my big haulers show up and dump all their poo poo at, and a bunch of small couriers with repeating orders and limited cargo space actually distribute it.

The problem is I can't for the life of me figure out how to do that without babysitting it.
- I can't set up a repeating order to "dump", just "buy" or "sell".
- I can't set up things in the logical view to simultaneously "buy everything that comes in" and "sell everything that comes in"; it seems to only allow for setting a balance point where "below this I'll buy, above it I'll sell".
- I can manually "sell" for 0cr to the station when it has no demand, but the repeating buy/sell orders have a minimum/cap so as soon as it hits the "sell" portion it bounces because 0cr is less than the minimum it's allowed to sell at.


Is there something buried in the UX that I haven't found that allows for this, or is this "esoteric weird approach the game wasn't built to handle" territory


Where are you buying the illegal wares from? The way i'd try to handle it is as follows:

- Set up station with container and docks
- Make a buy order for illegal ware X, set buy price 1 below the min price you want to sell it for
- Place buy and sell amounts manually (max out buy and sell min sell amount to 1)
- Set up a repeat order to buy ware X at your illegal station of choice and sell it to your container dock.

Ideally now your repeat order will keep supplying the station up to the max ware amount you set while your station traders will actually sell them. I cant guarantee that this works, from what I've read repeat order trades want to make profit. This probably works much better with tatertrade.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

FrickenMoron posted:

Where are you buying the illegal wares from? The way i'd try to handle it is as follows:

- Set up station with container and docks
- Make a buy order for illegal ware X, set buy price 1 below the min price you want to sell it for
- Place buy and sell amounts manually (max out buy and sell min sell amount to 1)
- Set up a repeat order to buy ware X at your illegal station of choice and sell it to your container dock.

Ideally now your repeat order will keep supplying the station up to the max ware amount you set while your station traders will actually sell them. I cant guarantee that this works, from what I've read repeat order trades want to make profit. This probably works much better with tatertrade.


This part right here is the issue I'm running into with it-- the UI absolutely refuses to allow the sell amount to be less than the buy amount. You can put sell > buy and drop whatever you have extra, but the game seems to think you're crazy if you want to do anything involving "importing a resource for anything that's not hoarding it or crafting with it". If this is the point where I need to start looking into mods to fix it then it is what it is, I just wanted to verify there wasn't something I was missing outside of "you can't do that, the closest you can get is setting up a factory and cooking the meth yourself".

Polikarpov
Jun 1, 2013

STICK TO BUILDING TRACTORS, KHARKOVITE SCUM

Just leave the buy/sell amounts on a trade station set to automatic, it'll work.

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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WoYC8ixF_0

Apparently they are introducing free axis rotation for the station builder, which should allow some interesting designs.

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