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Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


It being an X game, you won't really know that for about 20+ hours

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Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Playing purely with a controller? Yeah, you're nuts. But just using a controller to fly/fight, and using keyboard/mouse while on AP/in stations, not a problem. You all have laps, right?

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


So is there no way to just quickly find stations that sell particular items from Encyclopedia or anything? Looking for some space__ items and only the pirate base is appearing as an option in the map when I turn wares on. Same deal with looking for specific ships, you have to just go to the shipyards until you find one that sells the one you're looking for?

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


OwlFancier posted:

Yes you need to explore the universe to find places that sell things, it's kind of a key part of the exploration.

Are they just super rare to find? I've got 170 stations found already. What even makes Claytronics, that seems even higher value for buying and selling.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Not that it's terribly hard to find stations with the scanner, but you can kind of cheese finding them by just selecting the plot planner in the map. Stations, gates, etc will all be already reserved space.

What are you guys using for universe traders. I got a couple Teladi M traders, but they just kind of waffle about and keep going into wait mode.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Shadowlz posted:

Man I wanted to use my joystick but I think I give up. With a joystick anytime I'm out of mouse steer the view is moving in some direction at some speed. Even if anything is unbound. This make looking at the map a real headache I'll tell ya. It's like it keeps reading the joystick input but turns off the deadzone.

This game seems to have quite a few issues with using/swapping between controls. Use keyboard/mouse, and when you pick up controller, it takes a second of input before it actually responds to anything. And vice versa. I can't figure out how to target in the map and keep gamepad control either. If I target something on the map with keyboard, then exit out and fly with pad, it clears my target and I can't get it to lock on again.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Are stations similar to X3 ones where only the biggest stations actually can dock large ships and ship is glitching, or is this just the poor AI driving skills?

I bought a giant gently caress off mining ship (Crane), and dropped a 3 star pilot in and set him mining while I sat onboard. He did the mining part just fine. Got full up, and then set course for a Teladianium station, first hop, southwest side of the grid to the gate. He made his way that direction, then for some reason, hosed off to the north and into a minefield. After about 20 minutes of the repair drones fixing the engines that got nuked, he turned around and headed for the gate...except he drove through another gate on the way that took him further north. He's navigated this system over to the highway and to the west gate (flying parallel to the highway), completely blew by the gate, turned around and has gone through that gate. The little nav path STILL shows he's going the wrong way to get to the station, but for now he seems to be slowly plodding his way the long way to the station, but it's taken nearly an hour and a half since finishing mining to make it these two gatehops in the wrong way.

Edit:

At least they queue nicely?

Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Dec 3, 2018

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


OwlFancier posted:

E: Also in zoom related news I figured out how to mod your equipment so now my kestrel does 7000m/s in travel mode.

If you're looking for zoom. Pegasus Vanguard with Argon T3 travel engine will do just about 9k

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Patch 1.2

quote:

Added Korean localisation.
Added "Keep Settings?" dialog when changing antialiasing option.
Added user-submitted default profile for the Thrustmaster T16000m FCS HOTAS (thanks eisberg1977!).
Changed default setting for gamepad mode to be "Only for controllers".
Removed hull damage on collisions until the auto pilot has learned to fly around things!
Fixed suspense music still playing even if all nearby enemies have been destroyed.
Fixed player-owned ship icons that are underneath player-owned station icons getting selection priority.
Fixed player ships assigned to stations not trading in some cases.
Fixed the movement of newly assigned managers to the managers office.
Fixed manager's office on player stations not being accessible if there is no manager.
Fixed crew re-assignment in certain cases (e.g. from M ship to docked S ship).
Fixed assigning of crew in the back of your ship.
Fixed being able to assign crew as black marketeers.
Fixed cash exploit involving hallucinogenics and hard drugs!
Fixed too many Split characters appearing as pilots and managers.
Fixed not being able to Comm managers of player-owned stations via the info menu.
Fixed exploit allowing Comm with all known ships regardless of location (increased Comm range to compensate).
Fixed repair prices being inversely proportional to the amount of damage.
Fixed mass traffic being damaged in hazardous regions.
Fixed Bring Item missions.
Fixed some unlocalised text.
Fixed excessively loud repair lasers.
Fixed certain asteroids not displaying the correct name.
Fixed mirrored logos on small argon fighters.
Fixed highway adsigns clipping into opposite lane.
Fixed high and medium graphics qualities being identical.
Fixed graphics quality presets not changing texture quality and SSR option.
Fixed black screen after setting controller sensitivity to zero.
Fixed possible freeze involving ships repeatedly recalling subordinates who are unable to dock.
Fixed several other causes of rare crashes.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Has anyone compiled a list of alternate starts that can be unlocked? So far I've only found a trading start (no idea what triggered it) but I'm going through and doing various achievements to see what pops up.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


As long as the pilot has 1 star, you can set it as default behaviour. They seem to follow the same logic as traders do and just look for highest quantity of demand to sell at. I dunno if anyone has noticed any different, but mine always go back to the same fields they were in/near when you initially sent them off to mine.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Xenon and Khaak need to just do their fancy trick like in the past and just magic into existence at their stations. It seems like at least the Xenon do magic resources and build from them, except they have a build queue that is 1: Mines, 2: More mines, 3: I still see a gate there, more mines. If they'd do some fleets and raids, that alone would help at least marginally for them to kill a ship or two here or there to boost economy.

I've seen some scattered postings about people saying they've seen factional wars going on, though my guess is that's purely on accident given the rarity of those claims. Trying to stop a "criminal" while player is in system, and the super accurate shooting algorithm accidentally manages to score a hit...on the wrong target, and things escalate from there.

Otherwise, the only way I can think of to stimulate the economy is to wipe out a couple factions except for their ship/equipment stations so they need to import everything to keep rebuilding their fleets (I assume they have limitless wallets to keep buying things?)

xanif posted:

Also, how can I tell which stations refine what mined minerals/gas and if a large or extra large ship can dock at them?

Keep a list of the station names, I guess. Hopefully they'll get the encyclopedia like X3 was where you could just pull up an item and it would poo poo out "We've seen this bought and sold at these stations"

For docking, look for the funky long arm pieces, those are big ship docking ports. There is no way to tell this remotely, except maybe by zooming in on the map to look at the wire diagram maybe?

Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Dec 4, 2018

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


I think a lot of people in here are recalling X3 with a bit of tinted glasses. X3 without mods was okay, but purely vanilla, trade was pretty bad (How many trading mods were there again?), the universe was mostly stagnant and peaceful with a few pockets of activity, the economy functioned mostly, but without a really solid rhyme or reason to it. Egosoft may not be great at building fleshed out games, but they've built a pretty solid base yet again that even if they can't fix up some of the lacking areas, there's the tools and capability for modders to fill in at least 90% of the issues.

Just a reminder, in X3, you could not save except in stations unless you carried around a pile of an item you had to buy up without using the cheat engine to have infinite supply.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


FileNotFound posted:

Dude - for real - turrets could hit things fine with MARS back in 2008 in combat with more ships that I have ever seen in a single X4 system. Really they could hit things fine without MARS - but MARS added target prioritization and ability to have a capital ship with different turrets for different target types - also something that is missing in X4.

For fucks sake - Freespace 2 was released in 1999 and had working turrets - which ALSO had specific targets

I seriously cannot wrap my head around what hosed up code they are using that is causing excessive CPU utilization if turrets are meant to actually 'hit' things. Really games being programmed to have the AI be able to lead to hit target is a thing that's been mastered for oh I dunno 40 years now?

It's absolutely inexcusable that they "failed to notice" that their turret logic would be broken at release. It doesn't matter if breaking turrets allowed the game to run on min spec hardware. The game is not playable with M or better ships being useless in combat.

I don't know how you can even try to defend this.

There is a thread on the ES forums where the guy who wrote the MARS script had a supernerd breakdown of the calculations to do the aiming and how completely expensive they can be if done "right". Basically, he had a calculation originally likely similar to what ES made for this, but the problem was it either devoured CPU cycles, or didn't update quickly enough to be useful (which is basically what ES has right now). He had to cheat and shortcut math calculations to get the functional mod he has. ES likely didn't test their actually good turret calculations in the full universe and just in smaller tests where it worked fine, and didn't have the time after finding out how intensive it was to completely rebuild the calculations, so instead, they just reduced the refresh/recalc rate.

Yeah, it's ridiculous that they are as poor as they are. But you're specifically calling out an example when the person who made that example is also defending ES.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


I was curious about the whole expanding the sector map thing.

This is permanent for this save, it would appear.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


RBA Starblade posted:

Did you find anything :v:

I found a mining fleet about 2000km away from anything, in an area with no belts or gas clouds :iiam:

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


mp5 posted:

I've played this game for 20 hours and I'm still not sure what you guys are talking about with this

Kind of one of the bigger (IMO more annoying) departures from past games. A lot of mechanics hidden behind questline/mission unlocks that probably shouldn't be.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Section Z posted:

Even with the arcane witchcraft involved in X AI. Did you ever use presets when churning out the traders in question?

I noticed for example, all of presets gives trader ships combat engines.

Let me just take a quick look here to double check some numbers. Okay, a Teladi Vulture Sentinel (the 12k cargo M) with a MK3 combat engine has a boost speed of 928, and a travel speed of... also 928.

Don't use presets for M traders, except when slamming minimum to print empty shells I guess :stare: Skynet running your finances would still be pretty hosed with that.

M Miners are not so bad off with the presets always being combat engines. Teladi Manorina (Mineral) M for example, says it gets 2.5k travel with a combat engine. The best possible normal speed may also be preferable for puttering from rock to rock anyways.

The little save icon next to the presets allows you to make and save presets to use.

I tried out the tweaks suggested in this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/comments/a36x7n/save_editing_argon_vs_teladi_at_war/

Now I have everything at war with everything.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Something I noticed when looking through the save file. Relations between the races are NOT locked, which means the same actions that can raise lower for play also apply between the factions. Which explains why some people have seen natural wars break out without modifying anything. Many relations before I modified it were already starting to dip down to 15-20% negative. -50% seems to be where "shoot on sight" kicks in.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Section Z posted:

While you're digging through faction stuff. Is it not possible to raise your Rep with the Scale Pact outside of modding? A string of SCA missions has done gently caress all, and none of them mention any rep gains on completion. (Unlike the chepskate Teladi, Scale spring for Friend/Foe mines so are safe at -5 neutral!) Or am I soft locked at -5 until one of the still broken buggy for me "Lucrative offer" missions is completed?

Also, one of those seemingly useless "Faction, Civilian" missions offered by scanning signals was a real winner.

They wanted a ride to a Khaak defense platform :wtc: Maybe an NPC will give you a lift someday, because I'm not even going to attempt it as a joke.

<faction id="scaleplate">
<relations locked="1">

You might be able to just delete the relations locked line.

Oddly, Civilian, Criminal, and Smuggler are the only other factions locked, even Xenon and Khaak aren't locked.

E-Also, just got the trade offer subscription, it just keeps station buy/sell orders up to date, but doesn't tell you where other stations are

E2-Speaking of trades, you may notice you can place a buy order at a station remotely from a ship. Don't do this, it'll go on autopilot with no capacity for travel mode and refuse to give you control back until it's finished and probably glitch out and make you invisible

Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Dec 5, 2018

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Astroniomix posted:

Were you doing this in a ship with no crew? Because the AI pilots handle remote buy orders just fine.

I did it while docked and in the seat.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Now I'm curious what would have happened if I let it go through a gate, or even get to it's destination.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


NeurosisHead posted:

Do I need to buy blueprints from a faction, hire a builder, then send them to my build site like in previous games or is the workflow a little different this time?

You can buy them or use scan mode on stations and grab the blueprints from sparklers, which may be the only way to get certain production paths that factions don't sell. Otherwise, yep, rest is basically the same except the building requires supplies rather than just fly and plop.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Play roulette on capital ships, I found a 4 star pilot before in the crew before. Station spawns never seem to have much talent (Makes sense, no one has picked them up onto a ship I guess?). Ship spawn fodder seems to have random skills in random stats.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Lunethex posted:

Do AI ships still randomly crash into things and explode like if you were in system? That was always fun until a mod made them bounce off haha

At the moment, there are a number of AI pathing bugs with temp "fixes" of extremes, to the point where autopilot generally cannot take hull damage when ramming things, and occasionally will (by intention at the moment) just drive through walls and other solid objects to get where they are going. Teladi trade stations are the most glaring example of this besides asteroid belts

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Gorelab posted:

To be fair just straight up 'you don't take damage on autopilot' is better than x3 where I've died way too often autopiloting into a gate. Or into the dock.

Autopilot is extremely limited though, it's only for getting from point A to nearby the point B you specify, it won't dock for you, it won't continually follow. You have to have a pilot to do move advanced commands than "move here"

Which means, it's still entirely possible for AP to get you blazing towards a station, turn itself off when it gets close, and troll you with enough momentum that you can't avoid slamming it without the AP protection.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Squiggle posted:

My first accidental test of teleportation was me teleporting to a parked Vulture as I passed the station on the highway, resulting in my pilot-less Discoverer looping the galaxy over and over.

Sending it autopilot commands did nothing, since there was no pilot, and I wasn't in it. I had to fly the Vulture over to the highway and wait for the fucker to pass by so I could teleport back to it and pull the reins.

Sounds like an easy way to keep station prices along the beltway up to date if the radar still worked?

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Hav posted:

Timeline is entirely missing.

Timeline unlocks/fills by doing the signal tower repairs.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Either I'm missing something, or you can't actually do any mining control yourself in the L mining barges? There's no turret control options or anything. Ramming speed through belts is pretty effective though.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


NeurosisHead posted:

Top of your screen, cockpit view, turn off mouse steering. You can click the shield icon (defend me, I assume), and change it to one that looks like an asteroid (which mines nearby asteroids, I assume).

I dunno about normal turrets on the L mining ships, but mining lasers didn't show up at all

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Beefeater1980 posted:

Egosoft is also, clearly, using a different yardstick than the rest of us for what is simple and not worth mentioning

Germans.txt

MrTargetPractice posted:

Sorry fellas. The save is gone but flying around in a giant fight like that was super awesome. Eventually the Argon forces locked down the Xenon forces enough where I could just park above the capital ship and plink at it without it being able to respond. Took forever but it died eventually. I didn't get "credit" with the kill so i don't now how much the bounty was worth but I ended up with like ~300k after hoovering up all the wreckage.

Someone else caught an invasion in progress.

https://clips.twitch.tv/InterestingCarefulKimchiKevinTurtle

They uhhh, don't gently caress around when they finally do decide to attack.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

One thing I did in X3 consistently was take station build missions to "increase" the economy. Every time I played, I'd do 2 or 3, and then go on to my normal empire building. I can't say if it had an effect or not considering how huge the universe was there compared to X4.

Anyway, just got enough money to buy a builder. I'm going to try the same thing. Let's see how it goes.

Unlike in X3, every station you build you retain ownership of the station once built. So it's an upfront money loser if you build a proper station, otherwise you can make good money off them by hitting bare minimum, then demolishing it (you can remove all but the dock, and then shoot the dock)

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Trade ships are where the freaks go to gather

Bonus: Yvona Fisty hasn't been purged as a name and has returned!

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


^^X4: Foundations: Yvona Fisty and a good Khaak pounding

I did. It does keep the prices updated at all times for the faction you buy it for.

Of course, you have to buy it for EVERY faction to keep all stations up to date, and it will NOT discover stations, you still have to do that part. So you know, if spending the nearly 100 mil to get the coverage seems worth it, go for it. For that price it really should automatically populate new stations for that race.

Interestingly, since putting 1.3 beta patch on, I've had 75 new stations built in the last 5 hours.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


xanif posted:

Can anyone comment if this means that turrets actually work now?

It seems very nicely balanced now, feels like X3 Vanilla with tracking. Seen some people whining because they got too used to not having to try and evade shots, but things feel a lot more normal with combat.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Popete posted:

Maybe as they build more stations the price increases?

Seemed to be race specific, the main ones were 12 mil, the offshoots were 10.

Popete posted:

Do you need to restart your game to get the changes in 1.3? Such as station building by the AI and such.

Need to, no. Definitely gave an effect on my 20 hour game pretty clearly. Might be more interesting world going on if running from the start. IMO, I'd say just keep going until the patch wave starts to die off before restarting unless something mandates a restart.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


sandoz posted:

ugh if there was just a way to queue up dropping satellites

You can. Hire a pilot to do it, you can just load them up, then just keep right clicking all over the map where you want them dropped.

Anyone found any other unlockable starts besides the trader one?

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Yeah, I restarted a 1.3 and I get a very noticeable stutter anytime I'm on stations, and occasionally in space. My in progress game is still fine.

I think I saw for someone else doing the same you can rescan the station, or another station to get the HQ mission again, might need to go in and out of the system a couple times and/or reboot the game.

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


FrickenMoron posted:

It specifically asked for spacefly eggs, not caviar. Basically in my experience unless you immediately hop onto the station you got the signal from the bar will vanish if you fly away.


Edit:

Do security slicers etc. actually do anything or can I sell those?

I think you go into engineering sections of stations and hack into things with them. Trying now, I just managed to put some together

Edit:
Hacking Production does....something, I'm sure, but I couldn't actually tell.
Hacking Trade Terminal gives you better prices at that station
Hacking Construction Line does nothing I could tell
Hacking Storage makes the station vomit out trade goods

idk, seems better to sell them

Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 8, 2018

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Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Keeper of the Secret


Before I go about dicking with it, anyone toyed with putting smaller ships with their mothership sized partners?. L sized mining and transport ships can dock smaller ships, so could I say, assign 40 S sized ore miners to an L sized ore miner and them all move as a group?

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