Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Thanks for the video length comments! The final stage is encoded in one piece at 35 minutes and will go up sometime later this week. I didn't remember how long the footage for the final final video is but it's just 25 minutes raw, so that's the only such "issue" for this LP.

FeyerbrandX posted:

Same.

Also, I could barely tell what Sonia looked like with how bad the video quality was.

Then I saw some of the concept art. "Huh, those blurs look like they're supposed to be censoring something, but theyre not quite in the right place, must just be the video quality...."
*10 seconds later*
"nope, guess that's where they think nipples are."
"In order for this concept art to work, I need her to be naked!!"

Kheldarn posted:

I could only make it half way through that video and it's bad porn soundtrack. One thing I noticed is that her legs are messed up there, too. I guess Sonia just has bad legs. :shrug:
For a moment I thought you meant my video and couldn't decide if I should be flattered or offended...

chiasaur11 posted:

Also, by the timeline, Alucard hadn't been born yet. His mother hadn't even met Dracula in 1450. Further, it's pretty weird that the Belmonts were a legendary clan of monster hunters who the church had to go crawling back to in 1476 when, with this game, Trevor would only be the second Belmont to hunt monsters.

It really doesn't fit, is what I'm getting at.
Timelines are stupid anyway - though it's a weird and obvious fuckup for sure because Castlevania should actually make that quite easy. I don't think all the centuries between "first appearance, ca. CV3" and "near future, [x] of Sorrow" have been filled yet, and [the middle ages] is such a broad setting that it really doesn't matter if the game is in 1450, 1550 or 1650 for the level of historical accuracy these games go for. Also, they apparently can just say "gently caress it, Dracula hasn't been whipped ENOUGH last game so he's back fifteen years later", because Adventure and Revenge are still canon.

Anyway, the biggest problem I have with Legends being erased from canon is the justification for it. It's obviously not a shame for the game itself to be considered a weird black sheep because it is. It really is all about Sonia and the potential she could have had in anything but this waste of good cartridge Nintendium.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ryushikaze
Mar 5, 2013

Simply Simon posted:

Timelines are stupid anyway - though it's a weird and obvious fuckup for sure because Castlevania should actually make that quite easy. I don't think all the centuries between "first appearance, ca. CV3" and "near future, [x] of Sorrow" have been filled yet, and [the middle ages] is such a broad setting that it really doesn't matter if the game is in 1450, 1550 or 1650 for the level of historical accuracy these games go for. Also, they apparently can just say "gently caress it, Dracula hasn't been whipped ENOUGH last game so he's back fifteen years later", because Adventure and Revenge are still canon.

Christopher didn't actually kill Dracula in Adventure, so literally he hadn't been whipped enough.

And the periods between 1476 and 1999 were actually already pretty full up at this point. The only century that didn't have a game in it at that point in time was the 1800s, and that's where Bram Stoker's dracula fits on the timeline.
Only Harmony of Dissonance, Curse of Darkness, Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclessia take place inside that time frame, and all of those are external, incomplete resurrections of Dracula, if ones at all.

quote:

Anyway, the biggest problem I have with Legends being erased from canon is the justification for it. It's obviously not a shame for the game itself to be considered a weird black sheep because it is. It really is all about Sonia and the potential she could have had in anything but this waste of good cartridge Nintendium.

I think part of the reason the game got erased from the timeline is because it doesn't make sense in the non-dracula parts of the timeline, and especially because it implies that the Belmont line is -Omitted for spoiling stuff- And also because the game is serious hot garbage

Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 22, 2018

Magil of Shadow
Dec 28, 2009

Proposal: Form a friendly relationship immediately.

"You have GOT to be kidding me"

Ryushikaze posted:

I think part of the reason the game got erased from the timeline is because it doesn't make sense in the non-dracula parts of the timeline, and especially because it implies that the Belmont line is descended from Alucard and thus Dracula. And also because the game is serious hot garbage

This is the reason that makes the most sense for me, if only because I can see IGA wanting the Belmonts to have their power come from their own skill/bloodline, and not because SPOILERS REMOVED BECAUSE I'M A JACKASS

Magil of Shadow fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 19, 2018

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Magil of Shadow posted:

This is the reason that makes the most sense for me, if only because I can see IGA wanting the Belmonts to have their power come from their own skill/bloodline, and not because their family has Dracula's blood in their history.
Sonia was born with her (BURNING!!!) powers, though, and I feel it's implied that God (or whoever divine) just decided "this baby Belmont is now awesome because SOMEONE needs to whip Dracula".

Also, where are you getting that Drac's blood thing from :thunk:? I said no story spoilers for exactly this reason...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


This stage is a mess on almost every level, conceptually, challenge-wise, structurally and especially in its level design. It should by all rights be two stages with the Minotaur as the proper boss, but it's not; you have to do all of this poo poo in one sitting, unless they stealthily give you a new password after one half, which I doubt.
I'll spoil a bit for the next video: there is indeed an entrace to the ~Secret Stage~ just hidden in this level, after the minitaurboss, so they probably depended on the player finding that, as I'm moderately sure it will give you a new password (has an extra map screen, even). On the other hand, while the Secret Stage is short, it's a full level, and it boots you to right after the Minotaur fight, so...you still have to do the equivalent of two stages before reaching Drac! Infuriating! If this piece of poo poo didn't basically obsolete its own extra life system, this game would be complete torture to complete instead of just unimaginably tedious.

As should be obvious from my struggles, the Minotaur is probably the hardest boss in the game, though I don't know how hard Alucard would be if he didn't fall the the easiest loop in the world. There's just no good way to dodge him and his movements are totally random. Fortunately, you can probably just Burning up, but then you don't get a Whip upgrade because I'm pretty sure Burning is 100% required to get it without taking damage. You can get yourself hit into it, but the engine is so bad, that sometimes enemies knock you forward instead of back, apparently. There's quite a lot of these tiny moments of annoyance and complete dumbshittery in this level that make it somehow worse than the rest of the game, like they had given up on trying to actually design levels even more.

Also, as I don't fail to mention at the start, having the final level be "a cave" for most of its duration (because the final stretch up to Dracula is actually laughably easy) is nonsensical if you want to follow any sane idea of escalation of concepts. It almost makes sense if you consider Sonia to be literally dumped by Alucard's idiotic decision to just lie down for a while, but...that doesn't make sense in the first place. So whatever! gently caress the cave!

I'd also like to note that the map screen doesn't actually show anything BUT the cave, and as we'll see from the next level's map screen, the tiny stretch of path between the last dots is actually meant to encompass both the cave and the cathedral, as the secret stage entrance is smack-dab in the middle of it. Maybe we fight Dracula in an overdesigned garden shed where he spends Dad Time because Alucard is hogging the master bedroom. Come to think of it, did he go to sleep way up there? Have fun crumbling down with the rest of the castle, dipshit.




Then there is Dracula himself, and I'm super happy that the game opts for "pushover" instead of "nightmare" like Revenge did. It's actually not that easy and with its two stages, reasonable but not excessive health pool and small things like his projectiles blocking yours a step up from most of the other dross we had to wade through. The little touch that you can (and should) get exactly 20 hearts in the lead-up to the fight is honestly brilliant and the one piece of actual thoughtful design in the entire game, so kudos for that. Together with Sonia's non-stop barrage of merciless putdowns, this is the singular high point of the game and my one and only argument for "needn't have been that bad" and the potential of the main character herself.

A shame, innit.


Stay tuned for the Secret Stage and a true ending that will completely stomp out and crush the tiny spark of goodwill I just let fly!


Music

Underground Watercourse (Stage 5)
Dracula Castle Cathedral (also Stage 5 I guess)

Count Dracula Battle
Vampire Killer (Final Battle)

Ending
Epilogue

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Thanks for removing the spoiler, Magic of Shadows! Could you also do so, Ryushikaze?

Only one video to go - as I said, not as long as this one (just under 20 minutes), some time next week then that's it already!

I noticed that I had an unused concept artwork lying around and realized it was for the dragon miniboss in Stage 3. I had so completely forgotten that dude that I had to quickly rewatch the video just to make sure it was the right level. This game has some Issues. Adjusted the pictures accordingly, so keep an eye out for the deadly deadly Dwagon.

Also, I hadn't realized that Alucard has his own boss music, that's in OP and update now as well. I also added a piece of Alucard concept art, if you're super starved for content ;).


EDIT: I checked out the forgotten music and already forgot it again, so I'm now listening to the original Adventure soundtrack again because it's so fuckin' rockin' good.

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Oct 20, 2018

Magil of Shadow
Dec 28, 2009

Proposal: Form a friendly relationship immediately.

"You have GOT to be kidding me"

Simply Simon posted:

Thanks for removing the spoiler, Magic of Shadows! Could you also do so, Ryushikaze?

Only one video to go - as I said, not as long as this one (just under 20 minutes), some time next week then that's it already!

I noticed that I had an unused concept artwork lying around and realized it was for the dragon miniboss in Stage 3. I had so completely forgotten that dude that I had to quickly rewatch the video just to make sure it was the right level. This game has some Issues. Adjusted the pictures accordingly, so keep an eye out for the deadly deadly Dwagon.

Also, I hadn't realized that Alucard has his own boss music, that's in OP and update now as well. I also added a piece of Alucard concept art, if you're super starved for content ;).


EDIT: I checked out the forgotten music and already forgot it again, so I'm now listening to the original Adventure soundtrack again because it's so fuckin' rockin' good.

Hey, when I gently caress up, I'll happily fix my mistakes, especially when I'm enjoying the LP this much. Also, while I'm still partially through the Stage 5 video, I have to say, that the snarky 'commentary' you keep throwing in for Sonia keeps reminding me of an old Parasite Eve LP and it's been half of what's kept me coming back, outside of the mix of 'good lord WHY is this level a thing' and your commentary.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
All's fine!

Also thanks for your comment towards the editing - nobody outside of Youtube has said anything, so I wasn't sure if it was appreciated. Now I know :). Just wish I'd have thought of it for the first two videos, but alas.

Actually, I initially wanted to do that for Chillstopher ("why do I have to do this...I'm in no hurry...don't stress me!!!") but wasn't confident it was funny enough to justify the effort, so I did straight LPs instead. Maybe in the future!

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Simply Simon posted:

Also thanks for your comment towards the editing - nobody outside of Youtube has said anything, so I wasn't sure if it was appreciated. Now I know :). Just wish I'd have thought of it for the first two videos, but alas.

For what it's worth, I've been enjoying those too, they've added a lot of character to this game and LP that would otherwise have been lacking.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Yes, the editing was fantastic.

Now there's this game I'd love to see you blind LP, it's called Mega Man DOS...

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Spoilering this in case you show the good ending, but if you don't here it is in its entirety. Even considering this is a late gen GB game I'm shocked they squeezed this out of it.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Discendo Vox posted:

Yes, the editing was fantastic.

Now there's this game I'd love to see you blind LP, it's called Mega Man DOS...
SADLY I already watched raocow LP it blind, but that's a good suggestion to watch anyway!!!

FeyerbrandX posted:

Spoilering this in case you show the good ending, but if you don't here it is in its entirety. Even considering this is a late gen GB game I'm shocked they squeezed this out of it.


lol did you make this?

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Simply Simon posted:

lol did you make this?

No, I got that from my uncle at Nintendo Konami :v:

XavierGenisi
Nov 7, 2009

:dukedog:

Just going by the videos posted so far, the biggest issue with this game is that it’s just so entirely forgettable. Outside of some small bad stuff like long as poo poo dead ended side passages leading only to a chicken leg, or that asinine power up/spike placement right before the minotaur, there’s really not much to this game at all. There’s not really any stage gimmicks to speak of, and there’s so very little enemy variety. Hell, none of the enemies that exist are interesting either. The only ones you’ll remember are just the bats because they’re goddamn everywhere. It’s just rather dull and lifeless all throughout.

The only genuinely interesting part of the game is probably the final Dracula form, and only because the sprite is interesting to look at. In practice, he’s basically a Wily Capsule from the megaman games, and not a particularly good one at that. I’d say that Dracula’s first form would be pretty good, but it’s the same sort of basic pattern that he’s done before. All we got from the game is just the bare minimum to make a decent fight in that regard.

Adventure was interesting in how utter horseshit it was in difficulty and how crap it actually plays to begin with. Belmont’s Revenge was pretty great overall. Legends, on the other hand, just has kind of a weird story start to the series that got retconned out, I guess? Its not good enough to enjoy playing, and it’s not really bad enough to be memorable. It’s just kind of annoyingly dull.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
You hit the nail on the head, Xavier - as I say in the final video (or did I say it in this one?), Legends commits the imho greatest sin a game can: it's completely mediocre. If a game is actively bad, it's at least worth making fun of, or trying to work around all the glitches, or figuring out what the hell the designers were actually going for, but this one is just boring. It's competently made enough, the engine is a little janky but we've seen worse in this series, but it all adds up to a completely unnecessary game, if that makes sense. If this didn't exist, nobody would weep for it, except for Sonia herself of course. It's just a sad little nothing.

Because ThornBrain has just finished his Link's Awakening LP, and someone commented "it never gripped me, seemed a little janky but I guess they did what they could with the hardware" I looked up release dates again and LA is from loving 1993, four years before this. I hate reiterating that point, but there is zero excuse for this being so devoid of anything. Six stages with three gimmicks between them if you squint, a password system instead of proper saving, bosses with barely existing AI is pathetic for this time period. They had the entire SNES library to look for inspiration on how to do a platformer, and almost all the GB games as well.

FeyerbrandX posted:

No, I got that from my uncle at Nintendo Konami :v:
But Mega Man is Capcom :thunk:

Also dem canon colours for Sonia

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


This super extra secret stage is...come on. Accessing it is the only clever puzzle in the game, first in you needing to figure out that the death pit isn't one from the level geometry, then by making the trap candle into something you WANT to hit. And then you get THIS. It's a whole load of even more nothing than the rest of the game, presented in an acceptable aesthetic that is reminiscent of the first Castlevania. In fact, even the level design is, what with the two floors! What Legends obviously doesn't get is that this is only interesting if you have enemies that can attack from above or below so you're always in danger and have to move cleverly. And that you have to double back on the other path eventually to recontextualize what you've already gone through and squeeze everything out of the limited screen real estate given to you. Oh, and there should be SOME sort of challenge, obviously.

At least the aesthetic is kinda nice for an early Game Boy game that came out around 1991, right?

:negative:

I think the boss has the exact same AI (if you want to call it that) as the Minotaur, which is "totally random and will get you cornered", so I just said "gently caress it" after a long recording day. As the stage is so short and easy, there shouldn't be any temptation even for a player way worse than I am to use BURNING! on anything but the boss anyway, so I pity whoever tries to figure out the boss pattern and painstakingly plays the positioning game instead. Why would you? I do that for Mega Man bosses because bustering them is fun. Key difference!


Leaving this pitiful excuse for a bonus round behind, let's talk about the Good Ending. Well, I think I made it abundantly clear that the name is a joke - the ultimate reward for going into all of those stupid loving dead ends for meaningless rewards should not be the confirmation that Alucard impregnated a 17-year-old before turning into the ultimate deadbeat dad, and it is very much not kind to Sonia to basically say "she did kill Dracula in the normal ending which was okay, but in the good ending she's a mother, and that is her real use". In fact, it's disgusting on any level. gently caress this game, I'm glad it's gotten itself decanonized, though for a reason that is in fact completely in line with the ending's casual misogyny. I'd have been fine with the "Good" ending only having Sonia letting her hair down, that would have been an awful reward but kinda funny for its utter banality. But this?

Just imagine Castlevania 1 ending with "and so, after slaying Dracula, Simon went into the next village and got totally laid so the Belmont line could continue. Soon he had many children and was a great father, The End".


Music

Dungeon of Silence (Secret Stage)

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Oct 24, 2018

Kheldarn
Feb 17, 2011



The text says, "After some time". In my head, that means she turned 20 or 21 before becoming a mother, and nothing will change that.

Anyway, thanks for suffering through all three of these games for us! I never would have made it past the first Chillstopher adventure...

XavierGenisi
Nov 7, 2009

:dukedog:

Man, what a wet fart of a secret stage and second ending. Like, the inclusion of finding these hidden items and the secret stage is kinda neat, but you kind of have to question why they even bothered in the first place, given how the only challenge in hunting down the items is wasting your time going down extremely linear dead-ended offshoots, and the secret stage is literally just more of the same poo poo they've been doing for the previous five stages and topping it off with an absolutely brain-dead boss fight. And for what? A garbage bit of extra stuff tacked onto the normal ending?

Why even bother?

Also, Simon, you mixed up the music link for the secret stage. It leads to the music for Stage 5 instead.

XavierGenisi fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 24, 2018

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
bwahahahaa, now, you gaze upon the True Despair of Castlevania Legends! :getin:

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

wow that ending is kinda gross and uncomfortable huh

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer
It's been mostly cool watching you go through these GB 'vanias, but to be honest this game was so aggressively boring I didn't watch the last 2 videos.

Hopefully whatever you try next is more interesting, for better or worse.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

XavierGenisi posted:

Man, what a wet fart of a secret stage and second ending. Like, the inclusion of finding these hidden items and the secret stage is kinda neat, but you kind of have to question why they even bothered in the first place, given how the only challenge in hunting down the items is wasting your time going down extremely linear dead-ended offshoots, and the secret stage is literally just more of the same poo poo they've been doing for the previous five stages and topping it off with an absolutely brain-dead boss fight. And for what? A garbage bit of extra stuff tacked onto the normal ending?

Why even bother?

Also, Simon, you mixed up the music link for the secret stage. It leads to the music for Stage 5 instead.
Thanks, fixed!

Dabir posted:

wow that ending is kinda gross and uncomfortable huh
It's so bad that I finally got my first very own raving moron in the Youtube comments, I'm so proud (bolding mine):

some random rear end in a top hat posted:

So, for the most part your text jokes were good. But as it went on your hit rate started decreasing, I'd put it at a 60-40 split. I'd recommend being a little more self-critical, and maybe writing the jokes, then coming back to review the video the next day to see if you still think it's funny. If there's any doubt, just cut it. We're here for the gameplay and your analysis of the experience, the jokes are just seasoning that can and should be cut if they don't add to the experience, doubly so if they detract.

You leaned heavily on "Sonia's a girl" jokes, but the bit at the end about where you knock the game for treating motherhood as an achievement is ridiculously out of touch when the whole canon of Castlevania revolves around the Belmont bloodline. Also, Alucard is not creeping on a naive, sheltered child who lacks independent drive. 17 is marrying age in the game's setting and Sonia is established as competent, so don't drag the game by comparing it to Twilight.

I think the thing that really riles me up about this is that instead of the commenting on a legitimate element, like the fact that the secret requires you to attack something the game has been training you to avoid, your venom is instead directed toward story stuff that didn't even matter since this game isn't canon anyway.

Don't take this the wrong way, I love your stuff and eagerly await the MM7 playthrough. I just want to help you create something that stands the test of time, so we don't come back in a couple years and cringe at forceful attempts at humor.
did baby get offended by my "patriarchy" line

Zanzibar Ham posted:

It's been mostly cool watching you go through these GB 'vanias, but to be honest this game was so aggressively boring I didn't watch the last 2 videos.

Hopefully whatever you try next is more interesting, for better or worse.
I can't blame you! Editing in the occasional joke can only go so far. I'm glad to have this quickly over with and archived for posterity so I can declare the GB CVs finished and can move on. In fact, this was by far my most efficient LP, with one day of recording and a very easy editing - picture making - posting routine. I think the live format has also worked pretty well, especially in a game which should be full of dead air all the time I still managed to commentate on most things without devolving into nonsense. Please correct me if my assumption was wrong - otherwise I might do more LPs in this format for games I'm blind to where my first-time impression might be interesting to hear, like, dunno, Mega Man 11 somewhen down the line.

Also, my next LP is already planned because I need something to tide me over the lonely Scandinavian winter, it's secret though. Unrelated, you guys could help tell me if this looks and sounds fine, tia!

SatansOnion
Dec 12, 2011

sounds fine to me

thank you for your service, playing this game to spare others the pain :patriot:

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer

Simply Simon posted:


I can't blame you! Editing in the occasional joke can only go so far. I'm glad to have this quickly over with and archived for posterity so I can declare the GB CVs finished and can move on. In fact, this was by far my most efficient LP, with one day of recording and a very easy editing - picture making - posting routine. I think the live format has also worked pretty well, especially in a game which should be full of dead air all the time I still managed to commentate on most things without devolving into nonsense. Please correct me if my assumption was wrong - otherwise I might do more LPs in this format for games I'm blind to where my first-time impression might be interesting to hear, like, dunno, Mega Man 11 somewhen down the line.

The format worked very well for me, don't worry! My losing interest was purely the game's fault.

Magil of Shadow
Dec 28, 2009

Proposal: Form a friendly relationship immediately.

"You have GOT to be kidding me"

So yeah, as I accidentally spoiled before the last video went up, and as revealed in said last video, the casual misogyny, and, of course, implying that Alucard would go all deadbeat dad, is exactly the reason why I view Legends was gutted from canon. Well, that, and being a poo poo awful game in comparison.

I did want to clarify something I said earlier, in that I didn't want to imply that the Belmonts don't have their own power, when I mentioned that having Alucard be Trevor's father, and thus, the Belmont clan are half empowered by Dracula, in my critiquing of that plot point. The Belmonts are holy warriors, all with various techniques as proof of said immense power. Richter started the 'Item Crash' line of abilities, Julius has his shift-teleport, and Sonia, were she canon, would fit well with her 'Burning' state, even if that was just the game devs trying to find a way to excuse bad level placement by giving players a brief invincibility state to cover their asses.


But yes, in the end, gently caress Legends. C for effort, D- for actual execution.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Magil of Shadow posted:

So yeah, as I accidentally spoiled before the last video went up, and as revealed in said last video, the casual misogyny, and, of course, implying that Alucard would go all deadbeat dad, is exactly the reason why I view Legends was gutted from canon. Well, that, and being a poo poo awful game in comparison.

I did want to clarify something I said earlier, in that I didn't want to imply that the Belmonts don't have their own power, when I mentioned that having Alucard be Trevor's father, and thus, the Belmont clan are half empowered by Dracula, in my critiquing of that plot point. The Belmonts are holy warriors, all with various techniques as proof of said immense power. Richter started the 'Item Crash' line of abilities, Julius has his shift-teleport, and Sonia, were she canon, would fit well with her 'Burning' state, even if that was just the game devs trying to find a way to excuse bad level placement by giving players a brief invincibility state to cover their asses.


But yes, in the end, gently caress Legends. C for effort, D- for actual execution.
I suspected that you meant it that way, but we couldn't really discuss this without the ending video, so thanks for holding off :). Also thanks to Ryushikaze for editing out the spoiler earlier, I appreciate it!


LP organization stuff: so this is officially over (just confirming that there's not gonna be any bonus material), and I am indeed preparing the next project already, dunno when I'll have enough material to start a thread though. As usual, I'll let you guys know in here then close the thread, and ask for archival somewhen in the meantime. Feel free to discuss stuff for as long as you want in here until the thread closes, then it's too late ;).

I guess if you want to play a little ARG, you can also hop into the YT comments and tell the idiot off together with me, or just read further thoughts of mine on why this story sucks specifically there.


EDIT: lmfbo

same moron posted:

That's really unfortunate to hear. I was with you for a while, I even lean on the side of "I can't have it both ways" on the canon aspect. I can still defend my point, but I understand that it would be convoluted and would not matter in the grand scheme.

As to misogyny, I don't think you have the first clue as to what real misogyny is, and your perspective on "how horrible women traditionally have been treated in videogames" makes you sound like a poser jumping on the videogaming bandwagon instead of an ardent fan. Maybe take a break from Feminist Frequency.

You are actually dead wrong about what morals apply, because you voiding something of context. This is the logic that gets books like Huckleberry Finn banned because they say the word "friend of the family" when they are trying to give you an accurate portrayal of their time period.

Igarashi's justification is probably given edge by the fact that a group apparently unconnected to any of the source material were given free reign to muck about and write such a historic event, especially since he had plans for it in Lament of Innocence. And he even highlights that moving forward in time increases the prominence of women and the likelihood of a female hero.

Just to be clear, I'm not judging you for your moral stances or political views, I'm judging you for letting them permeate your work, which revolves around an apolitical subject. You hold seemingly strong ideological convictions and I encourage you to reexamine them. These are easy to have as default, normal opinions, especially in the modern "enlightened" era, but often they don't hold up under truly critical scrutiny.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 24, 2018

Tuxedo Ted
Apr 24, 2007

Congrats on your first deeply concerned youtube commentor. It's a rite of passage.

I couldn't really comment on this game without going over all the spoilery stuff everyone else was already avoiding, but suffice to say I agree with everyone else here on the various matters. Having the first female Belmont character's major contribution to the whole story being reduced to makin' babies is really disgusting.

Ephraim225
Oct 28, 2010

Tuxedo Ted posted:

I couldn't really comment on this game without going over all the spoilery stuff everyone else was already avoiding, but suffice to say I agree with everyone else here on the various matters. Having the first female Belmont character's major contribution to the whole story being reduced to makin' babies is really disgusting.

...It literally just said "she had a kid, he grows up to fight drac later"...? She was gonna have a kid eventually anyways. Did the other ending say she didn't?

Magil of Shadow
Dec 28, 2009

Proposal: Form a friendly relationship immediately.

"You have GOT to be kidding me"

Ephraim225 posted:

...It literally just said "she had a kid, he grows up to fight drac later"...? She was gonna have a kid eventually anyways. Did the other ending say she didn't?

The 'bad' ending actually makes more of a deal about Sonia defeating Dracula, and says 'anyone who knows the truth is long since gone' in regards to the events, aside from her being hailed as a hero.


So yeah, it's easy to get why the 'good' ending is such trash.

Ephraim225
Oct 28, 2010

Magil of Shadow posted:

The 'bad' ending actually makes more of a deal about Sonia defeating Dracula, and says 'anyone who knows the truth is long since gone' in regards to the events, aside from her being hailed as a hero.

So yeah, it's easy to get why the 'good' ending is such trash.

These honestly don't feel like "good" or "bad" endings at all. One requires more effort, but neither is bittersweet or anything.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Many people would automatically assume that the ending that takes more effort to get is the "good" or "true" ending, because that's how it works in 99% of videogames. Because good things are a reward for your effort. Castlevania is not a Cavia game, after all, and in all the others the more-effort ending is not only the obviously better one, but often fulfilling the conditions for it unlocks a good chunk of the endgame you still have to do. This is a trend for CV games since Symphony, which, and I can't repeat this enough, came out before Legends.

There are examples for a "good" or "true" ending not actually being one or the other; many people hate that the super tediously to get 100% ending of Final Fantasy X-2 hints at Yuna getting Tidus back for example, when the stronger narrative is (obviously imho) that she lets him go. And Mega Man X5's mess of a story has three completely different endings, of which the hardest to get (you destroy the colony and Zero doesn't go Maverick) is the objective best (because humanity doesn't get wiped out), but it's also the "least" canon. Or maybe I'm wrong there because good lord does the X story make no sense.

Anyway, "good" is not an ideal word both in the literal (outcome for the character) and the meta way (how we interpret it). But imho, that's just semantics, because after all, most players would consider the 100% ending of a game "the good ending", no questions asked.

Ryushikaze
Mar 5, 2013

Simply Simon posted:

Leaving this pitiful excuse for a bonus round behind, let's talk about the Good Ending. Well, I think I made it abundantly clear that the name is a joke - the ultimate reward for going into all of those stupid loving dead ends for meaningless rewards should not be the confirmation that Alucard impregnated a 17-year-old before turning into the ultimate deadbeat dad, and it is very much not kind to Sonia to basically say "she did kill Dracula in the normal ending which was okay, but in the good ending she's a mother, and that is her real use". In fact, it's disgusting on any level. gently caress this game, I'm glad it's gotten itself decanonized, though for a reason that is in fact completely in line with the ending's casual misogyny. I'd have been fine with the "Good" ending only having Sonia letting her hair down, that would have been an awful reward but kinda funny for its utter banality. But this?

Just imagine Castlevania 1 ending with "and so, after slaying Dracula, Simon went into the next village and got totally laid so the Belmont line could continue. Soon he had many children and was a great father, The End".

I mean, CV3's Trevor (Ralph)/ Sypha ending sorta does that, talking about how they're falling in love. Not the same, though.

Simply Simon posted:

I suspected that you meant it that way, but we couldn't really discuss this without the ending video, so thanks for holding off :). Also thanks to Ryushikaze for editing out the spoiler earlier, I appreciate it!

You're welcome. Also, yes, the Dracula Powered Belmonts just feel wrong, narratively. And honestly, if Sonia was in a better game, killing a different vampire, I think it would have been awesome. Hell, it could explain how the Belmont family became disgraced, because -Gasp- A WOMAN? Make her story about sacrificing prestige for what's right.

quote:

I guess if you want to play a little ARG, you can also hop into the YT comments and tell the idiot off together with me, or just read further thoughts of mine on why this story sucks specifically there.

Nah, too much effort, but I will say that Legends is THE worst Castlevania, including the Lords of Shadow trilogy and Judgement.

Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Oct 27, 2018

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

From a gameplay perspective, this looks all the more infuriating when you consider the enemy design. Most of them can't be engaged without taking damage unless you abuse level geometry and/or have a ranged weapon, and the rest of them boil down largely to "can you mash the attack button fast enough to kill it before it touches you", because Sonia is slower than just about everything in the game. The bats are particularly egregious as they seem to be designed to attack from sharp upwards and downwards angles, which are lines that Sonia can't cover with her weapon, even while jumping or ducking.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Ryushikaze posted:

I mean, CV3's Trevor (Ralph)/ Sypha ending sorta does that, talking about how they're falling in love. Not the same, though.
I actually looked that ending up just to make sure I'm not talking out of my rear end, and all the ending does is show that Sypha is actually a women (gasp!) and then they do a loving hug. I mean, there's an implication that the future Belmonts will proooobably also carry Belnades blood, but the ending screen isn't loving Sypha pregnant giving the thumbs up.

Crazy Achmed posted:

From a gameplay perspective, this looks all the more infuriating when you consider the enemy design. Most of them can't be engaged without taking damage unless you abuse level geometry and/or have a ranged weapon, and the rest of them boil down largely to "can you mash the attack button fast enough to kill it before it touches you", because Sonia is slower than just about everything in the game. The bats are particularly egregious as they seem to be designed to attack from sharp upwards and downwards angles, which are lines that Sonia can't cover with her weapon, even while jumping or ducking.
Actually, I found only the bats really infuriating. And the dickhole enemies right after screen transitions. It's true that their speed, hitboxes and movement (straight atcha most of the time) are stacked heavily against Sonia, but...you'll always be able to just kill them before they reach you if you have an upgraded whip. And you practically always have one, because there's an upgrade after every checkpoint!
I also would hesitate to use the words "designed to attack". From how it seems to me, the bats are not designed at all; they have a completely random movement pattern that might or might not generally gravitate towards Sonia. The randomness is the true killer. Consider the shadows in the first level; they always home in on Sonia, which is terrible when they respawn from off-screen if you dare move a pixel upwards, but generally they're fine because you know when they will be where and can whip accordingly. The bats are just not predictable at all, and that's why they suck so much.

Oh, the big knights are also a huge problem because they'll charge whenever the gently caress they want, but for those you almost always have a ranged whip, so...

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
In some ways this feels like an extremely early prototype for the metroidvanias. Legitimate free-wandering through screens, selectable magics you can find in the castle that work off of a common resource...

Ryushikaze
Mar 5, 2013

Simply Simon posted:

I actually looked that ending up just to make sure I'm not talking out of my rear end, and all the ending does is show that Sypha is actually a women (gasp!) and then they do a loving hug. I mean, there's an implication that the future Belmonts will proooobably also carry Belnades blood, but the ending screen isn't loving Sypha pregnant giving the thumbs up.

Yeah, it was just the closest analogue I could think of, and like I said, not even remotely the same.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Glazius posted:

In some ways this feels like an extremely early prototype for the metroidvanias. Legitimate free-wandering through screens, selectable magics you can find in the castle that work off of a common resource...

Except that it came out after Symphony.

There's really no excuse.

  • Locked thread