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Victory Position posted:I've... got to admit, that's probably one of the best randarts I've ever seen. Could have been a ring, but wow. No slaying bonus? Psh, into the trash it goes.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:23
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So has anyone else noticed that net traps are now the second deadliest thing in the game after hubris? I finally have a little time off for the first time in forever and was gonna go ahead and finish Greater Minotaur on trunk but this makes Z5 vault just too much of a craps game. Has it always been this way and I've just forgotten how to clear Zot?
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Dec 3, 2020 23:37
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I don't remember the last time I've been caught in one, let alone enough for it to be an issu-Araganzar posted:on trunk  My recent gooncrawl problem has been an unusal number of D8 ugly things across multiple characters, plus some sort of bullshit D15 vault with multiple guardian mummies and ghouls(including a pack that spawned literally right next to an upstair). Super cool and great.
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Dec 4, 2020 00:27
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Got my second win  ! In 0.25 this time. (Last one was in 0.12  )pre:1526353 SavageMessiah the Evocator (level 27, 264/264 HPs)
Began as a Minotaur Fighter on Dec 6, 2020.
Was the Champion of Okawaru.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes on Dec 8, 2020!
The game lasted 10:17:17 (93994 turns).
SavageMessiah the Evocator (Minotaur Fighter) Turns: 93994, Time: 10:17:17
Health: 264/264 AC: 46 Str: 28 XL: 27
Magic: 38/38 EV: 20 Int: 9 God: Okawaru [******]
Gold: 7386 SH: 21 Dex: 21 Spells: 26/26 levels left
rFire + + + SeeInvis + r - +10 morningstar of the Dove {speed, +Inv Dex+2}
rCold + + . Gourm . P - +1 kite shield {rN+}
rNeg + + . Faith . n - +7 gold dragon scales
rPois + Spirit . D - +2 hat {SInv}
rElec . Reflect + O - +1 cloak {rCorr}
rCorr + Harm . Q - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
MR ++++. y - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth .......... S - amulet of Amelumaack {Reflect rPois rN+ Dex+4 SH+5}
HPRegen 0.54/turn g - ring of Sidgh {rF+ MR+ Dex+3 SInv}
MPRegen 0.26/turn Y - ring "Yziohoehu" {rF+ MR+}
@: quick
A: retaliatory headbutt, beak, horns 2, blink, cold resistance 1, deterioration
1, fire resistance 1, wild magic 2
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, silver, gossamer
a: Blink, Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility Since I've repeated the feat, I guess my next target would be a win with a character that isn't easymode lol. Also, gently caress klown pies, jesus christ. I hosed up and got turned into a wisp, my stats massively drained (int to 0), and couldn't drink potions. The only reason I was able to escape was that I was close to the stairs, there was only the one klown, and it was a decent distance from me (all by design). After that I burned a scroll of fog for every klown. It's a good thing I skipped crypt, I had to clear the place to get enough XP to get my drat stats back. SavageMessiah fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 04:22
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Hey nerds, I'm working on an article and hoping there's someone competent at diving through source code history so I don't have to teach myself to do it. Remember that double damage bug in...I want to say the tail end of .15 to the release of .16? Where damage calculated twice on like all melee hits, and it took a non-trivial amount of time for people to notice? I would love to have the exact dates on when that bug was introduced and then found, so I can describe it more precisely + get to the right parts of the old Crawl thread. Actually not even a roguelike focused thing - I'm just kind of informally investigating the idea that being the kind of numerate person who is good at systems like Dungeon Crawl also makes you more blind to real patterns that exist because you know of more reasons why an apparent pattern might just be an illusion. But this is all memories from years gone by so I want to get it fresh before I go *too* far about it.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:34
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hito posted:Hey nerds, I'm working on an article and hoping there's someone competent at diving through source code history so I don't have to teach myself to do it. Remember that double damage bug in...I want to say the tail end of .15 to the release of .16? Where damage calculated twice on like all melee hits, and it took a non-trivial amount of time for people to notice? I would love to have the exact dates on when that bug was introduced and then found, so I can describe it more precisely + get to the right parts of the old Crawl thread. Actually not even a roguelike focused thing - I'm just kind of informally investigating the idea that being the kind of numerate person who is good at systems like Dungeon Crawl also makes you more blind to real patterns that exist because you know of more reasons why an apparent pattern might just be an illusion. But this is all memories from years gone by so I want to get it fresh before I go *too* far about it. not a source dive person, but it was definitely identified and fixed during the .16 tournament. i got a MuAM win with that bug (unbeknownst to myself) on a game that went from march 19 - 21 of 2015. i couldn't tell you when it was introduced or the exact date it was fixed, though, or anything about the actual mechanics of it
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Dec 8, 2020 21:15
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Knowing that it was in the 0.16 tournament helped a lot in the code diving, actually! Because Stone Soup tags their major releases I could look for the commits between 0.16.0 and 0.16.1. So the fix was added to the 0.16 release on March 22, 2015 by one of the main devs. A contributor by the name of SeveMonahan actually provided it a day earlier on the trunk and either they let one of the devs know or the dev bot announcement on committal may have clued them in. Github is also handy in that it links the commit that it reverted, letting us see that the bug was introduced March 6, late into the release cycle. The variable damage_done was not a local variable and was modified inside calculate_damage() in attack.cc prior to March 22. So when melee_attack.cc, line near 431 was changed to be damage_done += calculate_damage(), it meant an inadvertant doubling of all player melee damage.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:26
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Sage Grimm posted:Knowing that it was in the 0.16 tournament helped a lot in the code diving, actually! Because Stone Soup tags their major releases I could look for the commits between 0.16.0 and 0.16.1. So the fix was added to the 0.16 release on March 22, 2015 by one of the main devs. A contributor by the name of SeveMonahan actually provided it a day earlier on the trunk and either they let one of the devs know or the dev bot announcement on committal may have clued them in. Exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much! So 286 is the first page where people could be encountering double damage. Will have to scroll longer to find when the consensus starts twigging on that people are winning more, but it should be interesting to study.
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Dec 9, 2020 04:25
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Wow, those changes make Swamp look like absolute hell now. Smaller, the weaker enemies are now gone, and there's now five new horrifying enemies there.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:06
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PlasticAutomaton posted:Wow, those changes make Swamp look like absolute hell now. Smaller, the weaker enemies are now gone, and there's now five new horrifying enemies there. It’s less tedious, but more dangerous in my opinion. In this sense it’s closer to Spider than Shoals now; the fenstrider witch is the meanest of the new monsters with paralyse and agony, the bloated husk the easiest (it explodes on death, kill from range). Bunyip is...a juggernaut lite? Didn’t have much trouble with revamped bog mummies, will o’ the wisps, or eleionoma, but the Goliath frogs can be surprisingly deadly with corrosion and speed. Much like the thorn hunter and shambling mangrove, none of them are that bad individually but with Swamp’s layout it’s hard to isolate them which is when they become really dangerous. Now, getting swamps and shoals in the same run during trunk, repeatedly? That was hell.
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Dec 9, 2020 10:42
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hito posted:Hey nerds, I'm working on an article and hoping there's someone competent at diving through source code history so I don't have to teach myself to do it. Remember that double damage bug in...I want to say the tail end of .15 to the release of .16? Where damage calculated twice on like all melee hits, and it took a non-trivial amount of time for people to notice? I would love to have the exact dates on when that bug was introduced and then found, so I can describe it more precisely + get to the right parts of the old Crawl thread. Actually not even a roguelike focused thing - I'm just kind of informally investigating the idea that being the kind of numerate person who is good at systems like Dungeon Crawl also makes you more blind to real patterns that exist because you know of more reasons why an apparent pattern might just be an illusion. But this is all memories from years gone by so I want to get it fresh before I go *too* far about it. Is the article going to be available somewhere online when it's done, or is this for some fancy psychology journal or something? Sounds like an interesting read.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:05
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I think part of the problem with dev teams like this is they can't leave poo poo alone that needs to be left alone. Being able to win the game is not a development failure.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:33
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The trunk dev team used to be fine, but at some point it tipped over into a group of people that only cared about a small group of high level players and speedrunning. End result is loss of lots of flavor, stuff being made harder for the sake of making it harder, and punishing people for not playing the way the dev team wants you to play.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:25
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Haifisch posted:The trunk dev team used to be fine, but at some point it tipped over into a group of people that only cared about a small group of high level players and speedrunning. End result is loss of lots of flavor, stuff being made harder for the sake of making it harder, and punishing people for not playing the way the dev team wants you to play. Now imagine the kind of person it takes to keep up a job like that, for years, without pay, and you start to understand why the Crawl devs are so tunnel-visioned, narrow-minded, and hostile towards the idea of criticism.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:50
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Cataclysm: DDA has had the same problem for years now. Originally it was a game about building gigantic deathmobiles that would make Mad Max blush and chugging mutagen until you turned into a cow with wings and tentacles. Now you have to watch your vitamin intake because you can under AND overdose. Also you can’t make end game armor because you don’t know how to apply zippers to Kevlar yet.
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Dec 12, 2020 23:17
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I'm enjoying Gooncrawl, but then I find this:  Was this a mistake? The AC boost from +4 to +8 makes it much more useful, but Regen+++ feels like cheating. And it has RMsl on top of all that.
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Dec 19, 2020 03:49
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Feels like it should be giving you Ponderous.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:22
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MayCauseDrowsiness posted:I'm enjoying Gooncrawl, but then I find this: I feel like a lot of the unrand buffs went a bit too far.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:44
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It might just be because of the rather substantial chance of a randart generating with all of jack and poo poo for good or helpful stats. It makes the unrands look way overpowered when they should really be more like the standard for how good an artifact is supposed to be.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:50
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Did the game get a lot easier? I have dipped in and out of it over the years, and jumped back in this week after watching someone on twitch. I did a couple warmup games and now I have a two win streak? I basically played the same dude twice, but still 
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Dec 24, 2020 07:42
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A lot of us (myself included) have stopped playing Trunk and moved onto the Gooncrawl fork, so... 
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Dec 24, 2020 07:53
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I just got a 3-win streak, so it does seem off. But then I died to an ant as a DEFE, so I decided it was probably just that I played a string of strong characters. Also buff ogres please. I mean look at this overpowered jerk. Why on earth can I dodge while wearing crystal plate (it's because of the gloves). code:
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Dec 24, 2020 08:04
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PMush Perfect posted:A lot of us (myself included) have stopped playing Trunk and moved onto the Gooncrawl fork, so... I'd ask to burn the witch, but it's all flying around about me and you're not even holding a staff. 
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Dec 24, 2020 10:58
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Those are some drat good gloves. What is +Riposte? If that lets you riposte with that axe, those gloves go from drat good to holy gently caress good.
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Dec 24, 2020 20:02
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They give any weapon the long blade 50% riposte, yeah. They make long blades have a 100% chance to riposte. They're probably the best gloves in the game barring randarts with absurd resistances.
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Dec 24, 2020 20:44
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PMush Perfect posted:A lot of us (myself included) have stopped playing Trunk and moved onto the Gooncrawl fork, so... What's different about gooncrawl? I see it there on the splash screen
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Dec 26, 2020 05:59
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Most important is that there are playable skeletons. The archeologist background is also really good, especially with gnolls IMO. There are some things removed from Trunk, like regen, and wands of haste, and centaurs, that Gooncrawl has kept. And a bunch of other stuff. The best QoL is probably that a bunch of spells are implemented as permanent buffs that reduce max MP, rather than needing to be recast. This is especially great for transmutations, and just nice for stuff like regen and repel/deflect missiles.
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Dec 26, 2020 06:36
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Under 15 posted:What's different about gooncrawl? I see it there on the splash screen To be more glib and smug, mainline Trunk has started pulling all these stupid meats and vegetables people keep putting in the soup because it's getting in the way of the stone. Putting it another way: Trunk removed High Elves. Gooncrawl put back in Sludge Elves. Edit: Gooncrawl also completely removes permanent malmutate as an effect normal enemies have, because it's Floodkiller's personal "I hate this and I'm not putting in the work of organizing a fork that has this" mechanic. Most of us agree it's a change for the better. (Most enemies that used to perma-malmutate have either temporary malmutate or just scary-strong attribute drain now instead.) girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 06:40
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Gooncrawl put back in Pakellas, the best god. Mainline Crawl took away a lot of the interesting uses for Nemelex and basically demands that you pick up Gozag these days. edit: I won't even get started on how much they've messed around with evocables. They really don't like Artificers for some reason. Victory Position fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 06:51
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crawl removed all of the nuances to the food and hunger system over a series of patches. then, stripped down as it was, they decided that it was a mechanic that had no reason to exist and removed it entirely. its removal immediately revealed several very compelling reasons for it to exist, but instead of reinstating it they instead added an entirely arbitrary background timer that just kills you when it runs out and which the player has no way to interact with. this encapsulates their entire dev philosophy: this mechanic requires too much player interaction so let's simplify it and make it require less -> this mechanic now has a low game impact so let's cut it entirely and put lazy band-aid fixes over any issues that this causes
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Dec 26, 2020 07:38
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My kit conspiracy is that they removed food because, well, if everyone's taking Gozag, why punish them when they have the Midas touch? It balanced them out by having to really scrounge for food; that's not so much the case these days with the Zot clock.
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Dec 26, 2020 07:54
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cock hero flux posted:crawl removed all of the nuances to the food and hunger system over a series of patches. then, stripped down as it was, they decided that it was a mechanic that had no reason to exist and removed it entirely. its removal immediately revealed several very compelling reasons for it to exist, but instead of reinstating it they instead added an entirely arbitrary background timer that just kills you when it runs out and which the player has no way to interact with.
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Dec 26, 2020 12:26
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PMush Perfect posted:I'm sorry, I fell off of reading this thread for a while. They what. they removed the entire hunger system because it, supposedly, had no reason to exist immediately after doing so the hot new strategy for guaranteed victory was to worship xom and then just wait in the Ecumenical Temple for literally a million turns until he decked you out head to toe in ultra buff randarts and pumped you up with superman mutations and then proceed to effortlessly steamroll through the entire game as an unstoppable avatar of min-max. this was both foolproof and also just the most degenerate gameplay imaginable and they decided they needed to prevent it. Rather than taking the easiest and most straightforward option where they simply reinserted the ready-made system that had existed in the game for decades to prevent exactly that scenario, they instead decided that the way to go was to just add an invisible timer that causes your character to have a brain aneurysm and instantly die if they stay on one floor for too long.
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Dec 26, 2020 12:42
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If this sounds to you like it's so stupid and it can't possibly be true and that there's no one who could have their head this far up their asses, then you'd be correct. It does sound exactly that stupid. But it's true anyway, word for word.
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Dec 26, 2020 14:51
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They could have had Xom get bored and start tossing demons of increasing feistiness to keep things exciting, but that would have been sensible. Y’know, like the old floor clock. That got removed, because MuSu could farm the OoD respawns. Kerbtree fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 16:21
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It's so funny to me because the hunger system was mostly useless, it mostly just existed as a balancing factor for a couple of things; notably, Mummies, Spriggans, and Gozag were all balanced around loving with the hunger system in different ways. But apparently that subtlety was lost on the Crawl devs because they certainly didn't change anything other than taking out hunger and replacing it with worse hunger.
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Dec 26, 2020 19:37
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Victory Position posted:Gooncrawl put back in Pakellas, the best god. Mainline Crawl took away a lot of the interesting uses for Nemelex and basically demands that you pick up Gozag these days. I didn't actually do that yet (been working on it this holiday).
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Dec 26, 2020 21:00
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Floodkiller posted:I didn't actually do that yet (been working on it this holiday).  HAIL PAKELLAS, GOD OF ARTIFICE
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Dec 26, 2020 21:33
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So wait... they removed food, and then in a separate change after they realized how degenerate that Xom strat was, introduced the zot clock? Nobody had the foresight to at least connect those dots immediately?
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Dec 26, 2020 22:34
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from what i understand you kind of absolutely have to be going out of your way to even worry about the timer, so who cares
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Dec 26, 2020 22:36
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