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ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Good stuff---I had no idea about Bloatcrawl even being a thing. I suppose it takes some of the mantle from Circus Animals Variation that has gone quiet of late~

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ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Any reckonings on the moving target of late that is bcrawl as the other Lively One alongside Gooncrawl? Or plotting to harvest choice bits from the former into the latter?

https://github.com/b-crawl/bcrawl/releases

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Mainline Crawl has a fair mix of outright gains to go along with the outright befuddlements---but between Gooncrawl and bcrawl the overall scene hasn't been this lively since Hellcrawl and Circus Animal Variation briefly burned brightly, the latter being Particularly Out There in terms of stepping back from curation and slaughtering/mutating much of what had been.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


bcrawl popping off with a solid update, server doings, and first tournament in a week to perhaps tempt some of Vanilla's wayward infamous folk who live for such.

https://old.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/bv072j/bcrawl_dcss_fork_tournament_new_server_v112/?st=jwc3hgfd&sh=7b23b041

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


bcrawl has Done Myriad Stuff again, some new and some just parting semi-significant company with latest vanilla doings:

https://github.com/b-crawl/bcrawl/releases

Vine Stalker rework, new spells, staff/stave reworks seem like pretty nifty universal bits.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


bcrawl did an update recently with a Jiyva rework and and other accrued assorted changes---nice to see it still chugging on along.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Massive changes in trunk to just about the whole thrust of the spell schools is definitely going to be a defining point should they follow through with the lot in full---from all the cuts, to additions, to outright changes down to the core.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-6-january-2020

quote:

Hello crawlers, and welcome to the first batch of trunk updates of 2020. The teams’ celebrations raised quite a bit of Pandemonium, but in the fray several trunk changes appeared. Here’s the latest!

A new swamp worm tunnel vault offering a transporter puzzle for your death enjoyment
A new Fedhas vs Yredelemnul themed swamp rune vault with a cameo by an undead Lernean Hydra
On the back-end we’ve added catch2 testing to the build process
Foxfire no longer damage the player when swapping, just dissipate
A new abyss-escape themed ghost vault
Regeneration has regenerated for the last time, and is removed. Agony replaces it in the book of Necromancy, and Ozocubu’s Armour in the Book of Battle
A new unique Maggie enters the dungeon. Maggie is a younger version of Margery, and is a test of reaverb’s new multiple-unique-encounter storytelling approach. Maggie knows Bolt of Fire and Mesmerise, and comes equipped with a light dragon skin and a good weapon. Margery’s dragon armour is upgraded. Both Maggie and Margery have a chance of carrying Wyrmbane, which comes already slightly leveled up!
dtsund can send us an “I told you so!”. Scrolls of acquirement now offer a choice of 4-5 items: food (if you eat), gold, and three random choices from the old acquirement categories. These items are fully identified, and you can inspect them before making your choice.
However, the miscellaneous category of acquirement has been removed, so you won’t be seeing evocables on the list ever again!
That’s all for now! On the horizon, there are rumors of an upcoming crawl sudden death challenges “soon”, more magic changes, and who knows what manner of twisted sinister changes from the mind of Xom. Happy crawling!

Aside from Regen being gone,

-New new stuff sounds fine and or death trap'ish.
-Multiple-unique-encounter unique system sounds excellent on the whole
-Acquirement change is...kind of a mixed, Card-tinged bag---save Evocables getting clipped such that perhaps indicates they too are bound for the farm upstate that Regen now joins?

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


All aside, it would seem the just and true thing to do is grab as much from bloatcrawl 2 that is well and flavourfully implemented in spirit for Gooncrawl as the notions take...but man alive is that a loaded up release with strange and exotic things.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


The .25 Trunkening Continues:

quote:

You quaff a potion. It was a potion of stabbing. You feel ready to backstab. You open the trunk update like a pillowcase!

Greetings fellow crawlers. The 0.25 development cycle has proved to be a busy one, so we’re back with another Trunk Update. Many of us usual suspects have been hard at work bringing you some new toys to play with. I’m also happy to note that PleasingFungus has recently returned to drop some new crawl creations of his own. How he managed to escape from the dreaded Tower of Lemuel, we’ll never know!

Now, on with the update:

Frozen Ramparts, a new L3 Ice spell that makes all walls within radius 3 become covered in icicles that release when a monster walks nearby. The icicles do light damage that checks AC but is only partly resistable. Affected monsters additionally receive a “frozen” debuff that slows their movement by 4 aut for a few turns. Available now for any Ice Elementalist in their starting book!
Tin of Tremorstones, a new multi-use evocable. When used, it creates two radius 2 explosions at range 3 that are triple-affected by AC (like LRD), but the explosions are randomly skewed and may hit the user. Most useful for players with good armour. It has a 33% chance to fall apart with each use. It’s a tin of angry earth elementals waiting to explode!
New Potion of Stabbing that gives a 50% chance to upgrade weak stabs (e.g.distracted monsters) to strong ones (e.g. sleeping monsters). I wonder what this potion would taste like?
New unrand: Cigotuvi’s Embrace, a +4 leather armour with rN+, rRot and *Drain that automatically gathers corpses to increase AC. The AC decays slowly over time but decays more quickly as more corpses are added. That’s right, the former Cigotuvi’s Embrace spell has returned, but as an unrand!
Ledas’ Liquefaction gets a boost: the player is now immune to the effects of liquefied ground made by casting it. With this spell, we can all pretend to be a centaur.
Scrolls of Magic Mapping now reveal any floor traps on the level. Now you can feel the pain of finding of a double-zot-trapped Hall of Zot:5 right after you enter the level!
The vorpal weapon ego no longer has distinct adjectives for each weapon class. Now all such weapons are described as ‘vorpal’. Vorpality is the new reality.
Shields have gotten a reskin. Ordinary shields are renamed to kite shields and large shields have been renamed to tower shields. Sword-and-tower sounds cooler than sword-and-board, in my humble opinion.
Confusing Touch is now level 3 and checks MR instead of monster HD. Additionally, the Confuse spell has been removed. Now there’s exactly one “confuse exactly one thing” spell and it’s not so overpowered.
Boots of the Assassin are now called the hood of the Assassin and use the headgear slot. Imagine wearing this while quaffing a potion of stabbing and standing next to a distracted Rupert. Nothing personnel, kid.
The demon blade Leech gains *Rage/+Rage and loses its AC-3 and EV-3 properties. Bloodbane has been removed, having been merged into Leech.
Warlock’s Mirror can now reflect piercing ranged weapons. Is there anything this little gadget can’t do?!
God conducts for harming allies now apply to spells and items that place harmful clouds. But don’t worry, demonspawn, your ignite blood mutation won’t anger Oka.
The Staff of Olgreb now grants poison immunity to monsters wielding it. The gauntlet minotaur can’t wait to try this out when he next finds Olgreb in his loot pile.
Potions of Agility have been removed. Among the less interesting of the many buff potions that fill our inventories, agility potions have been replaced with the more specialized potions of stabbing.
Monsters such as spiders can no longer cling. Rest in peace, a myriad of clinging code bugs.

Some of the above items will continue to receive balance adjustments and tweaks over coming weeks. And we’re not done adding new stuff for 0.25, so stay tuned. Until next time, Happy Crawling!

Potions of...Stabbing? Right...this update is definitely going to be all over the place in terms of "new" and stuff folded in to further trim.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Prompted yet again by a bubble up post:

https://old.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/hq3n1a/a_bunch_of_updates_to_bcrawl_featuring/

bcrawl has apparently been busy out of the limelight these past few months between the lot of this and the variety of other bits over on the Release github page.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


I guess there's also the advent of Kimchi now ( https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/jy50lb/kimchi_is_what_dcss_should_have_become/ ), but those are surely Some Changes.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Though the particulars are all over the place, I do feel it is a blessed state of affairs that between Gooncrawl, bcrawl, and apparently kimchi...at the least in terms of liveliest folks...Good Answers to nigh all problems and edge cases and whatnot always seem to manifest sooner or later.

Mainline does good work on a fair few core and exotic bits(like frozen ramparts and fox fire!) no matter what other inscrutable bits tend to somehow hang on and risk the soup boiling over---but it would be cool if it didn't seem to exist in such a precarious state as the black box of Streamlining within Roguelikes compared to the classic black box that is Nethack's interactions/machinations. Thin out a soup enough and you are back to a pot of water, thicken it enough to beget a stew that would choke out the gods themselves.


Ultimately, the next tournament in, what, Some Weeks will probably shine a definitive light on the solution* to the food clock---especially as the various attempted extended games start to pour up for actual broad data points.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


I'd like a hunger mechanic where it was something more to engage with directly in spirit---as in, it manifests as an actual Unique Spirit that will hunt you down through walls and whatnot with keen awareness needing you to kill it in likely rewarding combat as with other Uniques. Each time you do, it increases the (AUT) until it comes around again, but it also gets markedly more powerful with each encounter, perhaps brings Thematic Friends or unencountered normal Uniques eventually and then also with buffs, etc. By the end game, it would at least have risk/reward attached to it as opposed to an outright kill/scarcity timer---possibly even an Achievement beyond Runes/Tournaments/etc for successfully Conquering Hunger fully as it caps out at something like Pan Lord strength or a bit beyond.

But like any(thing) fight now, only So Much when Ice Mages with Absolute Zero are a thing.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Spelunky and the nethack Wizard are solid touchstones---think of it as another progression mechanic as well. Instead of scumming for Xom mutations or some such, maybe you purposefully keep Confronting the spirit early on in the adventure reckoning you've got some potent consumables and whatnot to levy instead of hoard in vain, and giant surges of XP not unlike OOD Uniques of Old and drops to gain relatively OnDemand while presuming the remaining organic future encounters could* be well in hand. Gimmick builds could also have more of a chance vs tilting at attrition to get them off the ground outside of Wizmode or luck burning for early/any XP pots.

If Crawl is to be all fighting and low Environ Intrigue compared to the likes of Brogue or The Ground Gives Way, then lean into the fighting and Power Fantasy'ing to Enable rather than Excise.

I will forever wonder what might've been if Sangband had kept on keeping on to keep Stone Soup relatively "in check" as that's still the only other thing out there trying to maneuver in the same relative space..

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ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


LeastActionHero posted:

In my opinion I'm not sure that's a good fit for crawl. The Spelunky ghost is a good way to encourage people not to trawl though every part of a level, but that's okay because most parts of most levels only contain gold. In crawl that random corridor you explore could well be the tile with the only ring of resist fire in the dungeon. Plus with a punishing clock you might want to not use autoexplore, which would be terrible.

I'm not sure crawl needs a mechanic to encourage moving through the dungeon. Xom-scumming would be fixed more easily by making Xom get worse if he's repeatedly bored, and otherwise there's just no point. It's not like there are good (non-tedious) options to have to rest less - even if you run around at 50% HP, you're still on average healing as much damage as you take. Having to use the most food-efficient methods sounds like a boring consideration -oh, my conjurer had better get the dagger out to deal with these sheep, can't waste the food on spells.

I don't know I'd want to see cooking, but copying the vampire system of various effects at different hunger levels (like +/- HP, MP, breath/exhaustion recovery rate) would probably fit most within the current system. Being -20% HP would be something to avoid very strongly, but it wouldn't be "I'm screwed because only half as many rations spawned as usual".

I personally don't favor a "punishing" clock so much as an Interesting Escalatory Intrigue one per se as difficult for the sake of difficult roguelike design has long since slipped out of balance to the point of being quaint damnation not far removed from fractional spreadsheet screws being put to folks in the 4x realm as they seek Sisyphean percentages to feel again. If you have to interact with a mechanic that can well get you killed(in an ideally drawn out and agency bearing way, as otherwise you are on cursed binary ground with Thrones/Shrines in Telengard and I guess Caverns of Xaskazien 2...albeit tremendously rarer fare in the latter), it might as well also have the potential to make you more powerful and keep the character/game that much more interesting. The appeal of the greatest spear is greatly diminished without contrast with greater shields. The lands of Trivial Optimal are bland.

Full on dungeon moving push would be something like Ironman reckonings in Angband and some of the more insane ADOM conduct runs where you are only going down and unfinished business is something you have to pivot around and through with bitter gnashing---crawl shaftings would take this to levels of obscenities beyond current linguistics and how such would force hands on Rune acquisition and Shops in order of hopeful encounters.

If we're talking about salvaging and/or expanding upon other things before they are gone, breaking Beogh things to face mini wraths could stand for a more uniform interaction across the entire pantheon of Altars---could do a lot worse than ripping off Triangle Wizard by and large on top of most combat and otherwise wrath/penance effects probably now being something only experienced by an extreme minority of players overlapping with the incredibly new to the game and the incredibly experienced just forcing it for tournament gimmick badges on mollification and whatnot.

Food/Breath reckonings a neat idea though, also something semi-similar already fashioned to good ends in The Ground Gives Way. So long as The Purple still abides...

Did anybody ever get down to brass tacks on how Xom fares between his DCSS and POWDER incarnations? Could be some answer there, as POWDER remains the inscrutable bridge between Stone Soup and Nethack that nobody is quite sure where it leads or how, but still stands precariously to this day. As is, there's an odd amount of overlap with Jiyva in terms of Mutation Wrangling(still one of the best parts of the game despite being so buried for most) beyond Demonspawn and Draconics at the least.

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