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Is this game good again yet
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Jan 24, 2019 04:12
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Fhqwhgads posted:FR: Add a Tyrant unique that does only melee damage, cannot be permanently killed (but can be "killed" like Natasha), and can follow you up/down floors. That would just be Boris in melee form. Always kind of wished Boris was more of a threat. I can't think of a single time he's really been a major threat unless he spawned really early. He just likes to show up and be a nuisance, and then show up again when you're so buff you just squash him. goatsestretchgoals posted:As a dumbass who MiFis and uses throwing to reach out, this owns. Mulching as a mechanic exists because the devs don't want you to be able to use ranged weapons exclusively. Kind of annoying since it means you have to scrounge for ammunition constantly.
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Jan 31, 2019 09:00
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make mockery posted:you joke but im sure somebodys gonna do a roguelike w a breath of the wild style weapon system sooner or later, if cogmind doesnt already count I'd gladly play that if it took the gameplay from BotW as well. If that game had procedural generation I could play it forever. Shady Amish Terror posted:See, I know what you mean, but the way you phrased it just makes me think of Boris as the lich form of a goldfish. Man remember when goldfish and giant fish used to exist? I think my first death was actually to a big fish in a fountain vault because I underestimated its damage output.
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Feb 2, 2019 05:41
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Its been about a year and a half since I played this game. I still hate what the devs have done but I got real nostalgic about it lately. So I said gently caress it and decided to play again. I dunno who added this library memorization feature but holy hell its amazing!
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Feb 2, 2019 23:36
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Having done another 15-rune game, my initial excitement has faded away pretty fast. For two versions later, very little seems to have changed. Extended hasn't even been touched. Once again I was mutated by hell glow I couldn't avoid. I really don't get how that doesn't drive other players crazy. It feels so lovely. I've been playing this game for years. I have almost 100 wins online. I've given a bunch of feedback. And I'm pretty sure the only suggestion I've made that actually got into the game was a troll Xom vault that spawns a friendly goblin. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 02:58
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FulsomFrank posted:Try FK's amazing fork, Gooncrawl, Kraken. Tell me what you think. I have no doubt that its probably very fun and better than normal Crawl at this point. However, I'm addicted to the scoreboard aspect of Crawl. Having all my games tracked is what really motivates me to keep playing since I have clear goals to work towards. Floodkiller posted:I'm feeling powered to spite and the Oka changes are going slow, so I'll see how easy it is to modify Hell effects after I get out of work today and get that v2.0 item out of the way. Its not easy. I was reading through the dev logs and apparently changing extended to rework hell effects and the way Pan worked was a goal for 0.21... and nobody did it because it was hard and none of the devs care about making extended fun. IIRC the reason hell effects aren't easy to modify is because a bunch of them are just forcing miscasts and not actual, unique effects. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 22:26
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I'm being trolled by the game so hard. I get a +9 quickblade from acquirement super early and it lets me shred everything. All I need is a brand weapon scroll to make it viable weapon. Well I wait and wait and wait but I never find a brand weapon scroll, aside from one in a bazaar I can't buy. With no brand, the quickblade is starting to fall off. I don't have anything to use against high AC enemies. Even with my slaying bonuses and Wu's storm I'm having trouble killing some foes. But once Ir each Depths:5 I FINALLY get my hands on one and; quote:As you read the scroll of brand weapon, it crumbles to dust. 
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Feb 5, 2019 12:24
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IMO make Neqs, caqs, and OoFs give transient mutations instead. Those are still something you really wanna avoid and it keeps their threat as mutators intact.
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Feb 6, 2019 00:46
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Victory Position posted:with this post, duvessa suddenly suggests that weapons that are not heaviest or skill-intensive in class be nerfed to better represent weapon power across the board Nah he's busy arguing that rf+ and rc+ should only have one pip
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Feb 6, 2019 02:31
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 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20190206-095617.txt Wu Jian is stupid fun. I can't believe this god almost didn't get into the game. With a quickblade you turn into a blender that mulches enemies in a single move action. Also they are a shockingly good god for stabbers, since you can use serpent's lash and lunge to reduce the number of tiles you need to cross by 3. Lunge also lets you chain stab whole groups of enemies. Ton of fun with this character. As crummy as some of the changes might be, some cool stuff still gets added. Gonna have to try gnolls to see how they work out. FulsomFrank posted:Please tell me you're just joking. quote:I thanked the OP because the third pip should be removed, even though their reasoning is actually backwards (going from rF++ to rF+++ has a bigger effect than going from rF+ to rF++). Sometimes I look at the forum with the faint hope that something cool is coming but its always poo poo like this. Fhqwhgads posted:Walking is suboptimal. The game should just move you from setpiece to setpiece. Otherwise known as sprint
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Feb 6, 2019 23:34
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Infinite Monkeys posted:I got to endgame for the first time in a while, and mutations are a real problem. It seems like they even removed rMut too? What the hell am I supposed to do about berserkitis? Do what Amish said. Honestly I don't understand what the heck the devs think of mutations these days. There was a discussion in a Crawl discord about Zot and I said I actively avoid going there unless I need EXP now, because I don't wanna pick up irresistible mutations from OOFs. Too which gammafunk replied "mutations aren't dangerous". Which I guess kind of reflects their whole attitude towards mutations; not even worth thinking about. But hey instead of being negative, I had an idea; potions of beneficial mutation! These are always something I've always loved, even though they're rarely a big deal. Usually they just give you something like +2 AC or even hurt you by putting horns on your head and knocking off that precious helmet you loved. I still miss them in new Crawl, and something I don't like about the new mutation system is that it seems weighted towards taking away mutations first and then adding new ones. What this means is that you'll rarely get a mutation that advances past the first stage. So what if there were potions of evolution instead? An evolution potion wouldn't do anything to someone that isn't mutated, but on someone that is they would select a random mutation and advance it too the next stage. So like potions of bene mutation but working better with the existing system. Also smart use of them is less likely to randomly screw you over; you won't suddenly sprout horns, but if you already had a mutation of dubious value (wild magic) you might not wanna risk "evolving it." Just something I was thinking about... maybe if any of you like it you could at it to Gooncrawl. Dunno why I'm even bothering to share my ramblings anymore though. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 01:44
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Shady Amish Terror posted:And, I dunno, I like reading your thoughts well enough? Something amiss? Its just, when I first started playing Crawl years ago I thought the idea of a community developed game where I could actually talk to people making it was so cool. I thought it would always be this cool experience where I can see new content added and share my thoughts on it. And for a long time it was that, but then stuff stopped getting added and each new version had less and less. But for me personally, I feel like everything I've said has been totally ignored, even when its something a lot of people agree with. I've had serious problems with this game for years that could of been changed... but instead devs spend time debating the real hard hitting issues like "we should remove hungry ghosts and eyes of draining". There was a time where I wanted to learn how to add stuff to the game in hopes that maybe my cool ideas could become a part of it someday, but now I have zero motivation for that. The game is more fun, but I don't anticipate new versions anymore, and I've pretty much given up hope that the devs will ever listen to me. And that makes me sad since I've played this game for almost 10 years now. And yeah i know you guys will say "just play gooncrawl" but I've already talked about my reasons for wanting to stick with the main game at least for now. One more win and I'll have beaten this game online 100 times. I plan to do a huge effortpost about how I've felt about the game over the years for that, and its pretty much gonna be my last attempt to say anything serious about balance to the devs. I assume I will be completely ignored or mocked of course, but I wanna at least try one last time.  EDIT: Like I'm not crazy right? I feel like old versions used to have more serious fanfare than "we altered a portal vault and updated Nem (again)" Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 23:52
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Cardiovorax posted:No, you aren't. This is basically why Gooncrawl is even a thing. Trunk Crawl hasn't gone anywhere really new in years. That's not fair. Lots of cool stuff was added after 0.10, like a bunch of really unique and interesting gods (who doesn't love Gozag?). Stuff was removed and changed but it usually wasn't for the detriment of the game. And while I am usually against removal, there is a lot of stuff gone that I don't care about at all. And a bunch of the mechanical changes have made the game more fun as well. I dunno when my feelings about the game really turned sour but I'd guess it was around 0.18 or so. The rate of cool and interesting stuff being added was dwindling and a lot the changes were starting to annoy me. KoldPT posted:You can just look at the amount of posts in the threads for a more empirical way to look at this! I honestly thought Crawl had died when I couldn't find the thread because of how infrequently people have been posting about it. SA is just one part of the Crawl community though. I have no idea how the larger fanbase has grown and shifted over the years.
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Feb 9, 2019 00:12
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Cardiovorax posted:It's totally fair if you don't actually like the majority of the changes since then. Gozag is cool, but when was the last time they added a new branch to the game, or a new skill, or a genuinely new mechanic? I don't even remember, and I've been playing this game since it was still Linley Henzell's Dungeon Crawl. The dev team aren't designers at this point. They're curators. Well, I guess i'm just saying a lot of the new content is good so I wouldn't wanna throw it all under the rug. I haven't played the game as long as you, so I dunno what stuff pre 0.10 you really miss. It seems like we have the same opinion though, just spread across a time gap. Its just so disheartening... I really used to look forward to every new version. Now it just feels like the devs wanna make the game harder in pursuit of what they consider interesting gameplay. I see a lengthy discussion about cutting all resists down to one pip and making them all rarer and I wonder... why? Why do they not think gearing, the part of almost every RPG in existence, is now a bad part of Crawl? They say is always simple and straightforward and even with over a hundred wins I don't understand where the hell they are coming from. Why even focus so much on stuff like that? Why constantly rework systems people are enjoying while ignoring the stuff everyone agrees still sucks? I don't get it.
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Feb 9, 2019 05:08
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make mockery posted:they dont have any new ideas, arent interested in putting in the work required to fix current issues that only affect a small portion of the playerbase*, and dont want to let anybody else touch their baby I wonder if someone tried to push a commit to remove Hell Glow if they would even allow it. Like, I can't think of any objective reason it should still exist other than nobody bothering to remove it. What grounds would there be for it to stay? i can't think of any. Can anyone just submit code? I have no idea how Crawl development even works. I just know every time I've tried making a suggestion its never been seriously considered.
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Feb 9, 2019 13:38
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Microcline posted:I'd say all of the changes have been universally positive, and that folding curemut, benemut, and purple chunks in to potions of mutation made the mutation system a lot more engaging. Really disagree with that. All rolling all the potions together did was make mutations even less of something you should engage with. Cause now that you can't just use cure mut to purge your system, the odds of ending up with mutations you don't want is higher. Also benemut being gone removes the fun of getting a positive mutation, even if statistically its impact is minor. The whole mutation thing is a good example of the devs going with something that seems better mechanically but just feels worse. People had fun with purple eating but didn't like the way malmutate worked. So the devs responded by making it easier to get rid of mutations but harder to have fun with them. It was always a "bad" choice to eat purple but it was fun, and it didn't feel like you were gimping yourself because you had a dedicated option for cleaning yourself out. Now you just get a few minor mutations sloshing through your body as you chug mutation to get rid of the bad ones. The fact that every mutation has 3 tiers is barely relevant now. You'll never see them in the majority of games because of how mutation potions work. But devs don't seem to care how fun or bad something feels because that's not something you can objectively measure in numbers. Like the new trap system in 0.23 is okay, but it feels really lovely to go down the stairs and instantly get teleported before you can gather your bearings. Also apparently you can end up triggering a trap without even moving, which is just silly. But when I tried to talk about how crummy this felt the devs didn't even care.
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Feb 10, 2019 02:46
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I really do wonder how hard it is for new players to pick up Crawl now. On one hand the UI has come a long way and a lot of obscure, weird mechanics have been expunged. On the other hand, the game has been made significantly harder and a lot more punishing. Either way I thin the way the traps work now really makes no sense. If they wanna create the illussion that you're exploring the dungeon and stepping on traps they need to actually have it tied to movement. But the devs told me that would be "inconsistent" and that anything that reveals a tile should trigger a trap. But as you said, that just creates weird meta knowledge needed about the system to know not to rest near any opaque dungeon features.
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Feb 10, 2019 14:18
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Yeah alright I'm officially done with Crawl forever. So with the way traps work now I got blinked into the center of Tomb beyond my control. I got marked beyond my control. I got put in a net to top it all off. Tomb had been changed to emphasize careful movements and positioning. It wasn't really fun but I had started to enjoy it a little more. Now it just feels like an insane nightmare contrived by a sadist. I try and talk about how unfair this all feels and the devs just ignore me. I call them out on this and they just list off minor things I could of done like reading a scroll of fog (I got blinked the moment I went down the stairs) or casting death's door (not sure how that would of kept me from being teleported) or not worshiping Okawaru (god forbid I not follow TSO every loving game). They don't care that it doesn't feel fun. They don't care that its way more difficult than it used to be. They just don't care what I say. They don't care. I've played this game for almost 10 years. I used to love it so much. I thought it was so cool that I could talk to people making it. I loved it to bits. I used to wanna make art for it. I wanted to create content for it. It was such an amazing game to me, I wanted to be a part of it. But they don't care. I give up.
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Feb 11, 2019 03:31
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Sage Grimm posted:It's almost as if they didn't test it for the extreme worst case because 3 runes is standard and Tomb is an aberration that is part of extended, only for players looking for a challenge! When I said it didn't feel fair, Gammafunk told me that 170 or something people had gotten the golden rune, so it was clearly fine. Also there's no problem with Tomb being harder, because its extended! I'm just so defeated. I thought finally coming back for my 100th win would be a grand and meaningful venture but it ended in bitter tears. And yeah, "just play gooncrawl", well call it stupid but I care about my online stat page. It gave me goals to work towards. I liked tournaments and the challenges they gave to me. There are incentives to play regular Crawl over Goon Crawl that kept me going back to it, but at this point its not worth it anymore. I might try doing small things for Gooncrawl just for fun. I know this sounds insanely stupid but it was a little dream of mine to one day make content for this game. No idea where I would even start with that though, I know fuckall about coding.
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Feb 11, 2019 06:09
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Einwand posted:I stopped paying attention to the main dev stuff awhile ago, but decided to check in out of curiosity, can we talk about the klowns? Another set of commits later apparently made the spider basket traps dump klowns on you in zot and boosted their odds of using the pie from 8 to 12%. I'm fine with that. Its nasty but Klowns being a more credible threat is fine, since they're not a super common enemy anyways. More importantly though its an interesting kind of threat that you can respond to. Stuff like that is okay. But Zot in general got a whole lot nastier with the way traps work now. You're far more likely to end up getting randomly teleported on Zot:5 now. So the traps stuff sucks but Gooncrawl should totally swipe the more interesting stuff 0.23 did. Gauntlets are much better than labyrinths (though not really a thematic replacement for them) and a lot of the unrand changes are really cool. Haven't tried new Nem; I honestly don't have the patience to play with yet another rework of that god.
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Feb 11, 2019 11:04
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Floodkiller posted:If you would like to look into something specifically related to online stats, Cerepol was working on a Gooncrawl version at one point. Not sure what progress has been made or what type of work still needs to be done on it; I haven't researched it yet either to find out. Ha, no way I could ever figure out coding stuff. Making some Vaults I could probably manage though. I gotta assume Wu jian has relatively few vaults in the game compared to the other gods. Anyone got ideas for some of those?
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Feb 11, 2019 13:06
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I have no control over my life so I rolled a vinestalker with the sole intent of clearing new Tomb. Maybe I just had bad luck! Nah its consistently awful. I wanna know how my gameplay experience is being enriched by floating skull repeatedly ping ponging me across the room while monsters trigger zot traps over and over. It feels so stupid. I almost died on Tomb 2 because I could not loving stand on the stairs. Everytime I blinked to it I got blinked away by a dispersal trap. Its horrendous. And yet Tomb 3 ended up being relatively safe entirely because no dispersal traps were in the treasure chambers. How difficult Tomb ends up now comes entirely down to trap RNG. What fun! But hey, at least I got the high score on the CAO server.  I've yet to see anyone (other than the devs) actually say they enjoy this.
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Feb 12, 2019 11:07
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Apparently at some point Zin's mutation purge was removed and replaced with converting mut potions to cure mutation. Which is technically better except the most likely reason to want Zin's mutation purge is because you're horribly mutated with no potions left. Cool.
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Feb 13, 2019 10:28
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Cardiovorax posted:This is one of those things you could legitimately argue about. I guess the biggest change is that Zin was a good single-use final panic button. Now you can use him at any time and plan from that, which isn't actually bad - but the downside is that it's more RNG dependent. It's entirely possible to find enough potions to get two effective zinblasts out of it, but it's just as possible to not even find enough for one. Here's the thing; Zin's old option existed as something for a player clearly at their rope. If your mutations become burdensome you can purge them all away. Zin was designed to let you instantly convert your gold into piety and recover right away. Its an option I never used before (because cure mutation pots existed) but my last game it would of been very helpful. A player who uses up all their mutation potions, either through bad RNG or poor choices, is the most likely to want Zin to save them. But now you can't actually utilize mutation removal from Zin unless you save mutation potions. Its counter-intuitive. Mechanically it is better for a savvy player since you can switch to Zin, burn away bad muts while keeping good ones, and then switch to someone else. So its not a bad change but it doesn't do the same thing that the original option did. Also it makes no sense thematically; Zin shouldn't let you become a mutated powerhouse, he should be taking away all mutations indiscriminately. Course none of this would matter if they didn't take away my rmut amulets and cmut potions. Floodkiller posted:I thought Zin was also changed to remove mutations over time as well, so it wasn't a god you picked to lock them in either. Nope. That'd be fine, but if he does this it didn't happen one in my 30k turns spent scumming the abyss.
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Feb 14, 2019 05:07
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Cardiovorax posted:I thought of it in terms of a long-term investment because I don't tend to switch gods once I pick one, but when you put it like that, it is actually a bit of a problem. From a design perspective, the question now would be how often this happens and how many people rely on being able to use Zin like this, but that's not something I'm able to speak to. I mean, out of 100+ wins that was the first one I ever switched to Zin with the intent of cleaning mutations (most of my wins were also before they removed cmut and amulets of rmut though). Thing is most of the time, mutations aren't gonna be more dangerous than god wrath. So switching to Zin to clean yourself up was always a dubious choice. Zin was clearly designed with that switch in mind though, and the option WAS there. And I think its fair to say that a player who is desperate is likely to have exhausted all their mutation potions before resorting to Zin, so tying his ability too mutation potions makes no sense. Also if you had some "positive" mutation you were trying to lose like horns or wild magic, you wouldn't even be able to get rid of them. Even though Zin is supposed to hate ALL mutation. Its just another case of a dev fixing something that wasn't broken. If they added this in addition to his old ability there wouldn't be an issue. But now the ability seems designed to let you swap from TSO to Zin when you have a good mutation set and clean up your bad ones. Which is a better powergamer option, but why did that need to replace the old one? Its not a huge deal but stuff like this just annoys me. Whatever dev changed this either didn't understand the original Zin design or didn't care about it because it had never been useful to them.
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Feb 15, 2019 08:47
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Cardiovorax posted:I mean, purely in the sense of giving you an utility option, I'd honestly call this the better version of the ability, because even though it requires finding mutpots first, it lets you cure mutations multiple times at will and at different times instead of only once. I'm generally more likely to pick up the odd bad mutation here and there that I want to get rid of eventually than to pick up a whole bunch that I need to get rid of ASAP. Zin gives you immunity to mutation at max piety though, so random mutations aren't an issue. You're never gonna not be at max piety when following Zin late game as well since you can just pay more of your otherwise useless gold to make him love you forever. The change is only better if you're switching to Zin to preserve good mutations (which makes no sense thematically) or swapping between Zin and TSO multiple times. Either way its a change that didn't need to replace the original one. Its not like Zin would be broken if he had both abilities.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:25
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You don't need to be at an altar to get Zin piety. You just drop gold right out of your pocket into his magic donation bucket.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:05
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You're not supposed to use shields if you're using longbows/triple crossbows. If you wanna use a shield and have a ranged option there are better options for that. To me though, a consistent problem with the throwing and slings schools in Crawl is that you have no source of ammunition. If shoals spawns you can get a bunch of sling bullets and javelins from there. If it doesn't spawn you just... don't. Its a weird bit of RNG that can totally change the power of your character. The whole dynamic of the Lair branches is weird in that regard.
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Feb 21, 2019 23:51
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Teal posted:I'm okay with the turn time! It's fine! I can work around it! I just want it to take fewer taps and I don't see how's that unjustified if we can do it on technical level without messing with the balance. Ah, well that's fair I suppose. TBh that's probably something even the mainline devs wouldn't object too. They're all about things that make Crawl more streamlined and accessible. Something that just simplifies key presses without affecting balance is fine.
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Feb 22, 2019 10:23
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nerve posted:
wtf is that death yak tile
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Feb 27, 2019 07:06
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The regular death yak tile is better. I don't like change 
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Feb 27, 2019 23:07
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Its cool and good that unrands can sometimes just be absurdly strong.
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Mar 4, 2019 05:18
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Yeah crazy as it might sound those changes actually came mostly from Trunk. The devs do sometimes make fun improvements... its just always accompanied by bullshit like the traps rework, which they probably aren't even gonna tweak. I'm pretty sure I saw gammafunk pooling through deathrates and he considered the increased lethality of Tomb and Zot:5 to be a feature rather than an issue 
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Mar 5, 2019 05:29
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I always assumed the robe of misfortune only existed as a sick joke and backhanded way of saying "ID artifacts before equipping them stupid". Not sure why it exists now, other than to waste acquirement scrolls and make you sad.
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Mar 6, 2019 03:21
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Trying to sneak through Zot:5 is a bad idea since it can easily fall apart and get you killed. Even moreso now with the trap change, though I guess that doesn't apply to gooncrawl. Speaking of which, its really cool that you guys made scoring for gooncrawl. I'll definitely give it a try now once I feel the Crawl itch again.
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Mar 24, 2019 06:35
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I mean my main experience with the current devs was being ignored and then mocked for trying to provide feedback about the game so I'm not exactly sympathetic to the idea that they are chill, nice people. Have they added anything notable to the game in the year since I last played it or is Goon Crawl the only thing worth looking at?
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Dec 31, 2019 04:25
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Some of the simplification over the years is a good thing. Honestly, I like that a lot of stuff got condensed, even if a little flavor was lost. But they've gone too far in some places, and I'm pretty sure the design mentality of "condense" is ultimately going to make the game less interesting than it could be (instead of reworking Hell and Pan I'm willing to bet they just cut out most of it). Though it doesn't really seem like their doing much with the game anymore anyways.
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Dec 31, 2019 22:31
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What does a hermit crab being "physically perfect" mean? Are they just immune to certain mutations? Also is the idea of the race just to be a heavy armour caster?
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 1, 2020 |
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Jan 1, 2020 01:02
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Rodney The Yam II posted:They can't... just give it more of a downside? That would require time and effort. Why bother with that when you can just remove something, pat yourself on the back, and justify it by saying nobody would really care (IE: the current devs don't)? I always said regeneration was a universally useful spell and that it was gonna be axed one day. The only thing that surprises me about this is that it took this long.
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Jan 7, 2020 04:00
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Depending on how much rot that causes I think people are just never gonna use it.
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Jan 8, 2020 02:49
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