Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Can't find it in the changelog or anything so I'll just ask: did gooncrawl fork before Lee's Rapid Deconstruction got killed? As in, does LRD work like it used to?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Floodkiller posted:

Yes, it still does.

I should probably update the changelog...

cool, I'll play this then

it may sound stupid but LRD was very much the straw that broke the camel's back for me and stock crawl, but I'm sick of just playing .22 forever

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



so is there some reason why clicking to move to a tile in gooncrawl doesn't work like 60% of the time?

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



PMush Perfect posted:

You might be the first person to report this bug, actually? You're very much in the minority for preferring mouse control. FK's a genius, though, they'll figure it out soon.

I only use it for long distances because just clicking on the down stairs once is much quicker than manually shimmying over, but I'm definitely noticing it just failing to work in this version pretty often. It seems to have something to do with autoexplore since I've noticed that when mouse movement stops working clicking on a visible tile does nothing but clicking on the minimap just restarts autoexplore instead of going to to the target tile. It also mostly seems to fail when I manually interrupt autoexplore.

EDIT: Mouse movement not working great is something I noticed in stock crawl too, yes, but it's nowhere near this bad. In stock crawl mouse movement will fail once and clicking again or hitting some other button will unstick it and get it working again. In this version when it breaks it just remains stubbornly broken, usually until I change floors.

cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 19, 2020

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Jedi425 posted:

habit of mashing CTRL and ALT before clicking, it seems to fix whatever the problem is.

yeah I have that habit from stock crawl and it's not working here, I can faceroll my whole keyboard and mouse movement will remain resolutely hosed

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



PMush Perfect posted:

Shift+X, Shift + period(>), shift + period again to cycle through which downstair you're looking for, enter.

while your heart is in the right place I should tell you that I normally move using the arrow keys and my unwillingness to learn or use hotkeys is such that I literally cannot remember which buttons to press to move diagonally in this game and have lost multiple promising runs by steadfastly continuing to only move in cardinal directions when I'm too lazy to just click on the square I want to go to

any hotkey you tell me that requires me to press more than one button at the same time is a complete non-starter and if I have to actually change my hand position on the keyboard then it might as well not even exist

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

Your right hand goes on HJKL, these are the 4 cardinal movement keys. Move your index and ring finger up one row to move diagonally up left (Y) and Right (U), and down left (B) and right (N):
[timg]no[/timg]

So if you just have your right hand in the normal position, it's super easy as long as you remember to use your left two fingers for diagonal movement.

This chart is slightly deprecated, you should still definitely pray to whatever gods you can when you try to play this game but there's no key for it anymore.

under no loving circumstances will I ever even consider using any form of control that requires an explanatory chart and the fact that it also has movement keys which aren't oriented relative to what direction they cause you to move in is viscerally revolting to me, never suggest such a thing again

EDIT: you're actually the first poster I'm ever going to put on my ignore list purely so that I can continue reading this thread without having my senses assaulted by this nightmare chart, gently caress you

cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jan 20, 2020

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Shady Amish Terror posted:

Chei has always been a much better god than most people will give them credit for, due to the weird, awkward playstyle. My main problem with Chei is that they're the God of Killing You For A Single Miss-key. :v:

i like chei because i like being able to cast spells in full plate

i hate chei because i hate to accidentally fat finger a movement key and have an entire platoon of hell knights kramer into vision and gently caress my poo poo up

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Are prometheans skillcapped or something? I had my weaponskill get capped out at 13 and it wouldn't me train it any higher. I'm definitely sure I didn't pick the conduct that does that.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

That sounds like the pledge is being applied, maybe it's a save game issue. Hit # to get a dump, if you have a pledge it will say "You have taken the pledge of the xxxxxxxx."

I would do this but I died like 2 minutes after noticing it

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



I just looked through the morgue file and it says "you have taken the pledge of the lorekeeper"

I totally didn't

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

?
...you know, that is actually a pretty cool idea. We have DemigodsPrometheans whose gimmick is that they don't have a god. Why not have a race whose gimmick is that they must have a god and gain a specific racial ability based on which one it is? The biggest problem is that anything more complicated than a spread of damage types would take a bunch of extra coding, but this is exactly the kind of racial mechanic I always liked Crawl for: meaningfully different and unique in a way that alters their whole playstyle instead of just a slightly different spread of aptitudes and statistics.

why did demigods get renamed to prometheans anyway?

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

...you know, that is actually a pretty cool idea. We have DemigodsPrometheans whose gimmick is that they don't have a god. Why not have a race whose gimmick is that they must have a god and gain a specific racial ability based on which one it is? The biggest problem is that anything more complicated than a spread of damage types would take a bunch of extra coding, but this is exactly the kind of racial mechanic I always liked Crawl for: meaningfully different and unique in a way that alters their whole playstyle instead of just a slightly different spread of aptitudes and statistics.

You could have the new race be called "Demigods", since that name is now available. Have them work like Draconians: they have a "divine aspect" based off of a random god that gives them different abilities/mutations/aptitudes. Like if you have the aspect of Beogh, you can convert orcs and call them back, if you have the aspect of TSO you gain a Halo that increases in size as you level and cleansing flame, Zin gives you mutation immunity and vitalisation, etc. And make it so that they're not forced to follow the god that they have the aspect of, so that you can have situations where you almost have 2 gods, or you can double up and end up with a supercharged version of whatever they normally give you.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





why

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Serephina posted:

Surely you have a scroll for that? Tele, blink, fog, noise? A wand? If not, you walked into shoals unprepared so uh congrats?

I am inherently opposed to ever using consumables when I don't need to and they were completely incapable of hurting me so I held the wait key down for like, 3 minutes waiting to see if one of them would stop. They didn't, so I used a wand of flame on them.

i later lost that run to an orb of fire with like 8 runes because I was relying on sustaining Ring of Fire for my fire resistance and it got turned off somehow without me notcing and then I loving blew up

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



SirSamVimes posted:

How do you not notice that you are no longer setting everything on fire by existing?

everything was still on fire, it just wasn't my fire anymore

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



make oof malmutate the only perma malmutate in the game

make it guaranteed to hit you with rF- 3 times before it moves on to other stuff

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



make a monster that has Bonmutate and gives you permanent good mutations while you fight it and then make it otherwise the most disgustingly dangerous and horrible thing to fight

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



praying over the bodies of your dead followers as a beogh orc was cool as poo poo

everything else was mostly just tedious

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

I guess many of the newer ones just feel a lot more strict and punishing to me. Trog was always a real one-note god because his conduct cuts you off from so many options and most of the new gods seem to lean far more into his direction than in that of gods like classic Sif Muna or Makhleb, which were not always useful to your playstyle, but least also never hurt you to have.

gods should lock you off from options. That's like, the point of them: gods are always the same. They're reliable. I think not having a god should be a viable option rather than some kind of challenge run. Every god should lock you out of at least a few options in exchange for giving you guaranteed benefits. If you don't like it, be an atheist.

The gods that lack conducts are also the gods that are just super boring. Like, what is Mahkleb? He's basically just glorified lifesteal and 2 free spells. Sif Muna might as well be a loving library card. They're dull.

cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 5, 2020

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

Well, glad that you like that kind of thing. I generally don't. Not using a god is just intentionally gimping yourself, but currently, too many of them feel like they're trying to sneak conventional, restrictive character classes back in through the back door.There's a ton of gods I categorically never touch because they cripple everything except for very specific playstyles that I don't want to use and are no good for any other kind of character. That doesn't seem to me like it's a great idea either.

Mind you, this isn't necessarily a problem only with the newer gods. Elyvilon has always been this weird gimmick run god that you only use when you want a particular challenge. I just think there's some conflicting design philosophies at work there and it's not always working so well.

the nice thing is that the game contains both of them, so I can play the fun gods that change the way I play the game and you can play the gods that are literally just a passive buff and 2 skills

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Jiyva_mutations

So Jiyva mutations are based on basically a d100 (roll:
code:
   if (rand < 5)         return delete_mutation(RANDOM_SLIME_MUTATION, "Jiyva's grace", true, false, true);
    else if (rand < 30)        return delete_mutation(RANDOM_NON_SLIME_MUTATION, "Jiyva's grace", true, false, true);
    else if (rand < 55)        return mutate(RANDOM_MUTATION, "Jiyva's grace", true, false, true);
    else if (rand < 75)        return mutate(RANDOM_SLIME_MUTATION, "Jiyva's grace", true, false, true);
    else        return mutate(RANDOM_GOOD_MUTATION, "Jiyva's grace", true, false, true);
So 5% chance you lose a slime mutation, 25% chance you lose a random mutation, 25% chance you get a random mutation, 20% chance you get a random slime mutation, and 25% chance you get a random good mutation.

These mutation changes are diety gifts - awarded when you gain piety. Jiyva awards if a 1-piety roll > 50 and then you hit a 1 in 4 chance. When it kicks the gift timeout is 15+2d4 so roughly +20 piety per activation.

Any one of those percentages or any of the numbers in bold above are subject to change. You could also add a new percentage chance to delete_mutation(RANDOM_BAD_MUTATION).

I've also done the following just as general quality of life improvements:
- changed chance to eat off-level items from 1 in 25 to 1 in 500
- reduced piety cost to cure a random bad mutation from 15 to 10
- changed minimum hp and mp healing to 2 instead of 1
- removed something about jiyva not allowing artefacts to be created

I'll look at stat-shuffling next.

reduce the chance to lose mutations to zero

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

How I about I cut mutation loss to 1/3 the present rate? There has to be a means of redistribution of mutation wealth or the top 1% of players will soon control all the mutations.

0

if it makes the game too easy then replace it with a chance for bad mutations instead

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



oh no wait, here's an idea: instead of spending piety to use Jiyva abilities, make it so that you spend good mutations

and, I dunno, give him some abilities that are more actually useful

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

Well, nevermind that, then! I don't really keep up with the changelogs, so I only remembered it as an existing issue and thought it was still a problem because Araganzar managed having XP issues as a Slime Apostle.

isn't the slime problem because of the fact that it spawns the slimes as Neutrals, not as your summons?

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



FulsomFrank posted:

The QoL changes have been, by-and-large, tremendous. Just a shame that 90% of the changes that are really good are often vastly overshadowed by the 10% that are pure "what were they thinking???".

some of what was removed was dumb poo poo that was bad, yes. I don't miss getting hit by a white imp and having all my potions explode.

you know what I loving miss though: racial equipment. that was cool. nobody else ever brings that up.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

Berserk level 1 only activates on 1/100 hits and only has a 3% chance for you to pass out after (vs 10% regularly). It's pretty rare to be endangered by that and I never even notice shoutitis.

shoutitis is bad in certain areas and harmless in others

berserkitis isn't even dangerous because of the passing out(although that's pretty bad), it's dangerous because it turns off all your scrolls, potions, and spells so your options immediately become limited to "punch it to death" or "run away", and if you can't do either of those things then you just die

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Araganzar posted:

Yeah there's little lasting value in allowing entropy to take its course in a packed house.


shoutitis has a lot in common with your opinion on berserkitis


Yes but it will only ever trigger if you're melee and if you ARE melee might, 50% attack/movement haste, and 50% more hit points generally make both of those very viable options. It's bad, I try to get rid of it can in no way compare to teleportitis or blurry vision or frailty, although my experience with blurry vision is from before the duration was halved and may be out of line.

Now berserk 2 is dangerous and berserk 3 is just asking for a spat. I would rather have teleportitis and slow scrolls than berserk 3. You'll get 300+ activations in a 3-5 rune game and 10% of them will try very hard to kill you.

teleportitis is probably the worst one in the entire game, honestly, every time I get it it seems to wait until I win a fight on very low health and then immediately dump me centre stage of the dungeon-wide Smiters Convention

I probably have a less charitable view toward berserkitis because I play hybrid characters a lot, and also melee things as a caster a lot

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Floodkiller posted:

Double posting, but actually I was wrong and oh my god I'm so sorry: nobody has had claw damage since Fists of Thunder were merged in 2018. Whoops, heh heh heh...:suicide:

that explains why all my attempts at playing felid have been even less successful than I expected

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Vim Fuego posted:

*crawl dev-ishly* let's just remove claws entirely, no one missed them for a year and a half and removal streamlines the game aesthetic

yes, and then remove trolls also because now they're too close to ogres

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



SirSamVimes posted:

I don't know if the ui is set up to allow you to select a specific mutation.

it probably isn't, scrap the hold system and just do the "whenever jiyva tries to remove a mutation, tell the player which one it's removing and give them the option to pay piety to keep it"

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



in order to make the game more complex and encourage more tactical thinking we've removed all the non-standard evocables and added a no-target spell that kills cerebov in one hit

at one point I facetiously said that the end goal of crawl development was a screen where you pressed o and then it either said "you win" or "you lose". I'm now saying it again, but sincerely this time.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Panic! at Nabisco posted:

Do you have to actually explore areas manually instead of just hammering O and tab?

normally no because you can roll around with gold dragon armour and still cast spells and also have the best escape in the entire game, but you do in Hell because it's entirely possible to turn a corner into a group of enemies that can use Hellfire and lose 400 hp before you get a turn

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Arzaac posted:

Maybe they ought to just remove melee while they're at it, given "its relative spammability and complete lack of permanent costs"

melee removed, too much of a no brainer, every character would want at least a little bit of melee ability

too many spells, they have now been organized: all spells have been removed except magic dart, which now automatically aims itself at the nearest enemy

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



A Strange Aeon posted:

I'm running a Hill Orc and wanted to try the Orc God. Do I need to worry about my Orc Bros cutting heads off of hydras?

a flaming halberd is basically mandatory equipment for orc jesus so you can keep the heads under control

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Jack Trades posted:

So which is the latest official version that still has the game intact and isn't missing every interesting feature? How long ago did they start doing this?

they had started by like, .10

it was very gradual and it took people a while to notice

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Arzaac posted:

Why must they take out everything fun

the lesson that the devs took from the fable of the stone soup was that all of the meas and vegetables overpowered the flavour of the delicious stone and everyone would have been a lot happier if they'd left all that bullshit out

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Cardiovorax posted:

I think it would be fine to do that. LCS, Iron Shot and Stone Arrow are all just different steps on the single-target direct-damage projectile attack scale for Conjuration/Earth Magic effects. There don't need to be three of them that are functionally identical within a single school combination. If they were spread out over multiple combinations I might disagree, but as it is that's a bit needlessly redundant.

Seems like a reasonable change. Any opinions?
it seems to me that the main reason for the existence of both Iron Shot and LCS is because LCS is in a weird spot because it's 2-3 levels higher than you'd expect it to be. It makes up for that with giant damage but that doesn't matter when you can't cast it, so Iron Shot exists pretty much entirely as a way to tide earth mages over until they can get LCS castable(or for something that they just stick to because they want to save a few spell levels/MP). Generally speaking people aren't gonna know both LCS and Iron Shot even though they have the same schools, because there's no point: you pick one and don't learn the other, outside of numbers they really are the same spell.

turning Iron Shot into Scattershot and dropping Conjuration from its requirement would be an interesting change but wouldn't gently caress over EEs by forcing them to make a straight run to LCS

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



also make Scattershot use sling bullets as ammunition like Sandblast uses rocks

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Oldstench posted:

So, would I be correct in assuming that the consensus is to not play the "official" branch and go with goonsoup?

you should play whichever branch most appeals to you

i can't really imagine why that would be trunk but if for some reason it is then go nuts

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply