Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


I really feel like barding needs to be collapsed into just barding. Literally nothing is more frustrating than finding tons of Naga bardings over the course of the game and never finding a Centaur one or vice versa.
Though you'd probably leave Lightning Scales and Black Knight as specific to the species.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Species idea: Fulgurite, lightning-infused flying djinni-like creature that moves slow as poo poo naturally (as they're pinned to a spot they've magnetized,) but has a low-cooldown blink that costs nothing, starts uncontrollable and becomes controllable by XL14 or something. Flying and cannot land, Natural rElec, increased EV maybe, no boot slot (as they need their grounding point,) but no other armor slot restrictions. Good AE and Conjurations, low HP and bad Fighting, good Polearms and Staves skill. Terrible, terrible EE and charms (they're made of constantly coruscating energy and thus hard to self-buff whatever meat they've got.) Maybe have some various magnetic racial features.

Also just so you can finally play a gently caress.

Edit: It occurs to me that a lot of this is basically just what Barachi are. Well,

mdct fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Oct 23, 2018

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Sage Grimm posted:

A mace is just a blunt axe, after all.

But a whip is a leather sword

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Like: not doing the postgame, I guess???

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Any change that removes purple chunks as a thing you can just get and eat is a bad one

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Make the 18 Bronzemen trial into an entire level-spanning vault in the depths imo

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Jesus christ, welcome back to D7 for a while, I guess

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


I remember reading a translated set of opinions of Crawl from around the world, and the Korean ones were almost all about how the constant removal of features was always annoying, even if there was some begrudging acceptance that it made the game more accessible to play, so, yeah, it's like exactly how this thread thought of the main dev branch. The moment it became removal for its own sake, that's what broke bad on it everywhere.

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


WJC, a god that was supremely cool and was never more powerful than just being a blaster of Vehumet or whatever, is the sad story of the devs making worse and worse with every release iteration for absolutely no reason, completely against the wishes of the gods' original creator and without meaningfully taking their input.

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


If DCSS was ever, ever intended to truly be designed for new players, they would have touched rebalancing the early game from start to Lair even once, ever.

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Out of Depth monsters have always been a much more aggressive and active dissuader of sandbagging levels for EXP than the food clock ever was to begin with, and that's a mechanic that's been in the game forever.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

mdct
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Zodack posted:

As someone who really enjoys Crawl but is so bad they have only ever touched the Orb once, seeing this kind of discussion coming from both sides - even though it is heated - is incredibly interesting and helps solidify some nebulous thoughts I've had about the game floating around.

I have absolutely no authority to speak on any of the changes, other than I get a constant feeling of enjoying new things they add (Frozen Ramparts rules, and throwing Ignite Poison into the starting book was very helpful for me) but also a feeling of loss for reasons I can't put my finger on since I don't know the game well. With regards to races, I guess I'm in the "why can't we have both" camp, because I see a glut of options as a good thing. Roguelikes, at least to me, are an amalgam of crunch and balance that isn't perfect but presents at least a convincing illusion of a massive number of impactful choices to be made. The "Requirements" talk is something that's always been in my brain but not something I've ever quantified.

I, and my friends who do enjoy the game, were drawn to it precisely because it was a looming mess of systems that seemed both modern and archaic. The first time I remember going "huh, that was weird" was when High Elf was removed. Until then I had always been under the assumption the game only underwent positive development or re-balancing, and not having things removed with no replacement. I'm not exactly saying losing a race was bad because I honestly couldn't tell you how High Elf was different than Deep Elf other than it probably had more HP and less magical aptitude, but it felt weird to lose it.

This might be an incredibly dumb anecdote, but I remember once selling the game to one of my friends by telling him that casting Shatter or Lee's Rapid Deconstruction on a god altar would sometimes make the god blow you up. To this day I still don't know if that is true, or something I misremembered, or something I made up in my head about the game. But it's something that is cool and that I a) would not be surprised to learn exists in Old Crawl and b) suspect that if it did exist was removed for being dumb and pointless

Not trying to say I'm hard into either camp since, you know, I'm stupid and bad at the game, but that's the general atmosphere I get from being someone who has played on and off for a few years and doesn't follow the development too closely outside of lurking this thread.

Hey pro tip from this post: one of the biggest problems with the devs is ignoring people like you and the input you would have on the game, and feeling like you have no authority to speak on those changes is part of the problem (That isn't your fault, mind, but rather the culture built up around providing feedback and those that developers listen to people.)

New or less-skilled player feedback is in fact vastly more important than that of people who have played the game for decades. Statistically, more people playing a game at any time are new or casually doing so. Crawl used to be one of the most popular roguelikes around due to relative player friendliness and not as hard a focus on being crushingly difficult as most others.

I actively turn people away from Crawl when asking about what roguelikes to play due to how incredibly unfriendly and unlikely to succeed people are at it now, and I have not met someone new getting into it for like five years when I had frequently done so before that. It's the posterboy for games that refuse to accept the feedback of people who don't want to play in hyper-specific ways, like the release-frequency tournaments. There was a period in Slay the Spire's development cycle that I was terrified it would go down Crawl's path because the primary feedback that was being sent back was people who cared about playing on the highest Ascension levels, because casual players are less likely to provide feedback at all. But the moment they started making those changes, they got lots of pushback, and for good reason - it was making the primary playerbase's experience (almost exclusively people playing one ascension 0 or 1,) worse.

Crawl went the opposite route and has fostered that playerbase of dedicated players who want it to be more and more challenging and streamlined and simple, and that's tragic to me. It's impossible to recommend anymore. I wouldn't want to play the game without having like 8 years of experience going as far back as 0.7, like my own. It just wouldn't be fun.

Casual feedback is something that developers have to seek out, rather than receiving passively, and they never bothered.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply