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Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I can't stop eating the purple

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Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Some Xom altars should be simply a masked Abyss gate.

Like, make it so it actually says abyss gate in the text if you See or Inspect them, just give it the Xom sprite. Suppress "are you sure?" prompt if there's ever been one?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Sooo... would it be weird if Djinni could wear naga barding on their not-legs?

It doesn't feel like that's what'd make them particularly OP and it'd make naga barding marginally less prone to be a worthless find!

In my head I'm imagining it like a tubular "skirt" of sorts. Since the "lack of legs" translates to an AC penalty of sorts, I assume the "jet" at the bottom of Djinni is corporeal enough for wearing armor too?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


JerikTelorian posted:

I just found Gold Dragon Scales on D4, as a Minotaur Berserker. I can't wait till I gently caress this one up.

I just hosed up an incredible DjGo run where I picked up +4 Vamp Eveningstar on first Gozag shop and then ran into http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Elemental_Staff , had +32 Strength from rings so I could just wear Chainmail while constantly spamming Inner Flame on groups and then exploding them (guess what 100% fire immunity + Inner Flame means?)

Guess what happens with the hunger-to-equip penalty on Vamp that's meant to prevent you from hotswapping? [sp]it's just gone, you can vampswap all battle, every battle[/sp]

...and I died to a loving lone Kraken when I randomly flew about in water and then when it nearly ate me felt like "well, I'm nearly above ground, no need to waste a Blink scroll" and got slapped out of the air.

https://x-crawl.de/morgues/gooncraw...1014-132642.txt

please somebody tell me I'm a loving idiot

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Floodkiller posted:

Gooncrawl updates:
    Mortal enemies: snakes and boulder beetles.

I got that vault yesterday and loved it btw

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Would just "Goon" be too on the head?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

how do the spikes add significant weight, honestly

It's not heavier, it just requires a lot more effort to not impale yourself with as you swing it

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


tote up a bags posted:

Nice summary of this thread and 2/3rds of the last one

so is it a too radical thought to ponder if there isn't something wrong with the skill system when a lot of people find the game a lot more fun when it's just gone?

I'm not even thinking about removing it period, just maybe somehow making it less... that's the problem, I can't really figure out what exactly bothers me about it, but I do feel like something can be improved

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I demanda refund tbh

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Any weapon that's super at killing things shouldn't be balanced by "but the only way you can use it just makes it kinda bad at killing things".

SGC on underskilled characters should instead have a chance of partial self damage.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'd like to introduce you to my project where I reimplement the whole of Dungeon Crawl in python

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Irradiated Dwarves.

They're "survivors" of when a dwarven underground NPP melted down and flooded the tunels with combination of radioactive elements and magical contomination.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


You'll have to wrestle the living weapon idea out of my cold, uh... dead... uh..... hands?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Time to do some machinegunning

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Imho traps that relocate you be it by shafting or Tele should have a chance to spawn a beneficial, otherwise inaccessible vault with good loot or shop in it and shove you into it.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


can we remove swamp please

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Jester Mcgee posted:

The most problematic thing I noticed about permabuffs was that I could put on armor that was a little too heavy for me. For example, I could put on chain mail in the beginning of the game and have a 50% or so chance to cast my buffs, then I would just cast them as many times as it took to get them up, then I had them forever. I don't have any input into how to fix it, but I felt scummy while I was doing it.

Imho just divide the reservation cost by the success rate; 90% success rate increases reservation by 10%, 50% success rate doubles it, 10% success rate increases it tenfold. In theory you end up at the same amount of mana spent to get it up. If that still feels too strong because you're still not compensating for the turns wasted and miscast effects, I think you could just add a chance on each action to put a miscast effect onto you, or to make you spend the turn struggling with your buffs (no extra input necessary, just "you spent a while fumbling with your magic...")

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Can anyone share their good tryhard rc files? I finally bothered to compile from source on Windows Linux and I'm too lazy to look up how to make autoexplore and waiting instant, autobutcher, sane health limits, that nifty "skill screen pops up automatically" etc..

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'd play on X-Crawl but it doesn't have permabuffs (or at least not infusion) yet

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Floodkiller posted:

Just quoting one from this discussion, but the way I implemented it doesn't mix well with a per-spell success rate check: it adds/subtracts from a total MP reserved on casting the spell, instead of based on what the current success rate is (like Hellcrawl). This is because Hellcrawl makes each permabuff something that has to be checked at the beginning of each turn, and I didn't want to too much stuff to the game like that in case it starts slowing stuff down as I add more garbage code. I can try and come up with some formula based on Encumbrance Rating/Armor Skill/Spellcasting to apply a multiplier to the total MP reserved to have something similar, since that's probably easier than testing out balanced static reservation numbers for each permabuff.

I'm not sure I understand.

Adding encumb drops your buffs anyway; there's no need to check it every turn (I think wild magic fails to drop them but that seems like a fairly minor and hard to exploit circumstances so I'd ignore that). I haven't yet looked into crawl code structure yet (even though I do C++ and it's only a question of me no longer being loving lazy piece of poo poo) but I'd presume that when casting the spell, you can apply a debuff (which could be a separate entity from the spell effect itself) and determine the the actual mana penalty to apply on basis of the current failure rate of the spell, or is the spell failure badly accessible in the logic of the casting time? I mean, the game displays it in the interface on multiple points even between turns so surely it has to be accessible somehow?

Feel entitled to call me a dipshit to do it myself if I'm so smart, but I'm just struggling to understand the actual issue outside of per-turn checking which does seem unnecessary to me.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Floodkiller posted:

Yes, I could modify it at cast time only, but what about when your spell success rate changes due to things like rings of wizardry, glow, or even just skill training? If I don't put in a per-turn check/adjustment to do it automatically, people are still going to want to drop their permabuffs and recast manually whenever the MP they would have reserved is lowered.

Yeah, that's how I imagined it! Do you think that's that much of a HOM problem?

The issue as I see it is that you can ignore miscast to a point (in the end the pretty much only limits are starvation and contam mut as you desperately try to force that 99% failure through). If you implement MP reserve scaling at cast, people who want their "updated" whole manapool will have to recast once upon a time but it doesn't seem to break permabuffs as a concept to me.

If you think the micromanagement cost of forcing the recast (you're still forced to recast every time you put on body armor or shield anyway?) is too high, I guess you could do a recalcuation every time the character eats or something (I'd just hold the table of permabuffs and current success rates, force them through guaranteed for no cost but apply the appropriate new reserve), so it's not quite every turn but relatively regular.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Honestly I'm lot more bothered that every time I put on a shield is a forced recast than it'd bother me if I had the optional benefit of recasting after putting on a Wiz ring, especially because I have to take shield off every time I want to use a ranged weapon that's not thrown/sling/handxbow - I'd actually really like if something could be done about that one, even if not even technically stronger, just less tedious.

How hard would it be to make it possible to swap to a bow without losing the encumb penalty of wearing a shield, while losing the SH rating, and the ability to switch back to my melee (including the shield) without loving around with the two inventory items AND recasting all permabuffs?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Internet Kraken posted:

You're not supposed to use shields if you're using longbows/triple crossbows. If you wanna use a shield and have a ranged option there are better options for that.

To me though, a consistent problem with the throwing and slings schools in Crawl is that you have no source of ammunition. If shoals spawns you can get a bunch of sling bullets and javelins from there. If it doesn't spawn you just... don't. Its a weird bit of RNG that can totally change the power of your character. The whole dynamic of the Lair branches is weird in that regard.

I don't mean to dismiss the balance concern of perma reflect on a ranged character or anything but I'm honestly bit weirded out by "You're not supposed to do X"; again, specifically on gnolls and overall generalists worshipping Oka it's perfectly valid gameplay wise to run around with a bow and plink at the low intensity encounters saving lot of turns and sparing yourself of positioning risks and then whipping out a melee weapon and shield to crack the tougher nuts you can't kill before they make it to you and who are risky in ability to kill your face if you aren't wearing a shield. Right now, while gameplay/balance valid, it's just tedious, and that's what I think isn't justified.

Again, "you aren't supposed to be able to be super lethal and highly durable at the same time" makes sense to me, "you're not supposed to do a thing that makes logical sense and gameplay sense but is tedious" doesn't.

What if I found a super nifty shield and a super nifty bow and am in position to invest skill points into both? The limiter to make use of that should be skill points and encumb, not it taking like 15 key presses to swap between them every time, I mean, that was the entire point of permabuffs too, wasn't it?

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Einwand posted:

I feel like the difference there is that shields intentionally take a lot longer to unequip/equip than normal weapons and rings do, so presumably they're intended to be more of an intentional build than something you hotswap for the situation.

I'm okay with the turn time! It's fine! I can work around it! I just want it to take fewer taps and I don't see how's that unjustified if we can do it on technical level without messing with the balance.

And yes I could probably do this with some convoluted macro but Crawl is a game I often load up offline on some new random setup and it's pain in the rear end to drag these around.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


That's some cool uradnarts I'm literally never ever going to encounter in my life

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


code:
abyss.cc: In function ‘int _abyssal_rune_roll()’:
abyss.cc:177:45: error: no matching function for call to ‘min(int, double)’
     return (int) pow(100.0, min(1, depth / 6));
...
Makefile:1560: recipe for target 'abyss.o' failed
make: *** [abyss.o] Error 1
make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....


(current git, it built normally before)

(I just locally set the chance to 1 because it's not like I'm going to ever survive a trip to Abyss)

Teal fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Apr 13, 2019

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


About at what XL can I expect to finish the Archeologist manual as a Gnoll? I get the hunch the answer is "lol" and I hate it because Gnoll is my favourite race and Archeologist is an awesome concept.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


TastyLemonDrops posted:

I got a gnoll archaeologist up and running. My box didn't open until I had completed all of dungeon, lair and mines.

Is this how it should be or could they get a bit of help?

I figure it might be considered a fair payoff to the fact that a Gnoll will be basically always well able to make use of whatever is in the box, but I found the pre-lair ever harder than any other class and basically always end up splatted by something silly like Natasha

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


cheetah7071 posted:



fell down a shaft into this

FR: falling down a shaft (not deliberate formicid shafting though) into a room should hard-confuse all the monsters in it (or at least put some roll on it happening for each of them)

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


My latest Gnoll Archeologist got carried all the way through most of Dungeon, all of Lair and Ork Mines by a +2 Lightning Whip and some insane loving +9 ench ring mail with +3 Str, permanent RMSL and casting Mephitic Cloud farts on anything that looked at me funny while I proudly stood in my farts laughing, thanks to fart huffing power of Ashenzari

then my crate revealed this loving thing http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Bloodbane (again, I had loving CLARITY, WHAT LUCK IS THAT?)

and basically as soon as I stepped into Spider Nest I got shanked to death by http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Agnes wielding a lajatang of speed

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


FR: remove current downsides from haste but make repeated/continuous (permabuff) use eventually induce random Chei wrath, including newly added wrath where he fills the room with torpor snails

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Chei the highway patrol

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


My issue with cursed poo poo early on that -AP and -Slay is just super boring and your punishment for id-eq a lovely one is "ha, the game will be SLOW AND TEDIOUS if you don't give up".

Could they instead just use the randart negative trait pool (and in case of the particularly bad ones, come with actual +Slay or a brand, as some sort of micro-randart?)

I mean stuff like Noisy, *Rage, *Tele, *Slow and such (stuff that could be expanded on).

"You pick up a sword, it's just extra poo poo at killing things, but you can't drop it" is fun neither gameplay nor flavor wise. "You pick up a sword and it screams loudly as you try to stab people" would be lot less of a bummer.

Teal fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 22, 2019

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I think my main issue is that the punishment for recklessness shouldn't be flavorless tedium, which -SL/-AC equip is; they make you just flat weaker, and unlike *Tele or -Stealth don't actually change how the game plays, don't create any new situations, don't make you think of specific things that'd not be worth doing otherwise, but might be worth the risk now (like looking for resist to cover the --Fr Cursed +5 Sabre has), nothing.

If there can't be consensus on if there's ways of making cursed weapons more interesting, I'd still vote for removing them altogether.

If we were making them more meaningful (as in, with actual upsides to balance off the hazards/downsides), we might actually make Remove Curse rarer (yes, rebalance Ashen if we do) and make the primary means of getting rid of the curse bit more involved, like making each cursed weapon ask for blood of a very specific (but perhaps perfectly generic) mook that's 3 floors deeper and it'd tell you, like "This +5 Longsword of *Rage won't let go of you until you avenge its previous holder by slaying a particular 2 Headed Ogre on D:8"

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


"Surely that last remaining two headed ogre with basic clubs can't deal 22 HP in a single swing after I just tabbed through like a dozen of em" says a Minotaur archeologist in an ogre cave on orc mines, on the turn before receiving 30HP in a single swing from a two headed ogre after having tabbed through like a dozen, dying.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Everyone seems to agree Archeologist loving owns so shouldn't this serve as indication maybe it should be considered that you should get more means to access Weird Cool poo poo A Bit Earlier a little more commonly?

I dunno something like very bottom of Orc having some special shop with "you get to pick only one, for free", with 1 random urandart armour, 1 weapon and 1 jewelry.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'm not sure if high gold cost makes sense because in that case all you're doing is providing means for planning around what you might get eventually; you will quite possibly stumble upon something even better or almost as good as you gather the gold.

If it'd make the game too cheap and easy it could be items that come with some difficult-to-cure turbocurse; like one that makes the item stick until
you get 2 runes or something, so you'd have to be sure you want to commit.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


Hermit Crabs were (Tollymain's?) Gooncrawl idea of beginner friendly, low equipment requirement caster race that's super bad with weapons and comes with some built in durability and combat capability so you don't have to worry about equip and can just focus on casting.

Then shortly after Fairy Dragons happened and ended up being basically straight up better at the same job, and now the crab seems a bit redundant and sad.

Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


can we add a check on archeologist to not pick the skill you have -3 apt or worse in

I'm kinda sick of getting spellcating manuals as minotaur, I refuse to take it as a challenge

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Teal
Feb 25, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


for anyone stuck with windows I can wholeheartedly recommend the windows 10 linux compatibility layer with ubuntu (and if you want tiles, xming for graphics)

it compiles just as the linux instructions say

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