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Armor is not awkward unless yours doesn't fit. There was a king of France who did backflips in his. Meanwhile, in New York: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/nyregion/subway-dancers-metropolitan-museum-art.html
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Nov 6, 2018 13:21
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HEY GUNS posted:Armor is not awkward unless yours doesn't fit. There was a king of France who did backflips in his. Meanwhile, in New York: I never want to see that hot mess again... it was bad. But yes, armour is not awkward unless it doesn't fit. Armour is made for the person. Like a nice tailored suit. Sure you can buy "off the shelf" stuff, but sooner or later you are going to realize it was a mistake.
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Nov 6, 2018 15:36
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EvilMerlin posted:But yes, armour is not awkward unless it doesn't fit. Armour is made for the person. Like a nice tailored suit. Sure you can buy "off the shelf" stuff, but sooner or later you are going to realize it was a mistake.
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Nov 6, 2018 17:09
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HEY GUNS posted:my company lent me my armor and every other pikeman in it is well over six feet and beefy Ouch
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Nov 6, 2018 17:24
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Hi! We've met. I'm Chuck (with the giant beard) from Broken Plow in Pittsburgh. =P
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Nov 8, 2018 22:48
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Uziel posted:Hi! We've met. I'm Chuck (with the giant beard) from Broken Plow in Pittsburgh. =P Hahaha! CHUCK! See you in a few weeks for the Christmas thingy?
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Nov 12, 2018 14:07
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EvilMerlin posted:Hahaha! CHUCK! See you in a few weeks for the Christmas thingy?
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Nov 12, 2018 20:10
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Uziel posted:Yes, for sure, I will be there! NICE! The better half is looking forward to it!
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Nov 12, 2018 20:11
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HEY GUNS posted:Armor is not awkward unless yours doesn't fit. There was a king of France who did backflips in his. Meanwhile, in New York: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAzI1UvlQqw
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Nov 21, 2018 19:46
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HEY GUNS posted:my company lent me my armor and every other pikeman in it is well over six feet and beefy How many pikemen can you fit in a suit of armour?
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Nov 23, 2018 10:56
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Vaginal Vagrant posted:How many pikemen can you fit in a suit of armour?
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Nov 23, 2018 12:30
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Interesting thing here. Guy Windsor has put his Beginner's Rapier Workbook up on gumroad as pay-what-you-want.
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Nov 23, 2018 20:07
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Liquid Communism posted:Interesting thing here. Guy Windsor has put his Beginner's Rapier Workbook up on gumroad as pay-what-you-want. ITs a decent book and guide from what I have heard (I don't do rapier).
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Nov 24, 2018 03:02
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Modern soldiers generally carry more weight in armor and equipment (even without including the weight of an assault pack or a sustainment pack), and the weight is almost all carried on the shoulders with some weight on the waist for belt-mounted stuff. The armor plates and soft armor is all on the shoulders.
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Nov 26, 2018 00:50
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EvilMerlin posted:ITs a decent book and guide from what I have heard (I don't do rapier). Yeah, I picked it up, should be interesting reading. I don't do rapier either, but work against it fairly often, so some insight into the basics of how it works will be helpful.
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Nov 26, 2018 04:20
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Internet Wizard posted:Modern soldiers generally carry more weight in armor and equipment (even without including the weight of an assault pack or a sustainment pack), and the weight is almost all carried on the shoulders with some weight on the waist for belt-mounted stuff. The armor plates and soft armor is all on the shoulders. Yes, this is one of the things I bring up all the time when doing armour demos. I often bring my issued rig of a carrier, with my ESAPI plates, my my ECH and such along with my armour harness. Its funny to show the people the difference and how well the folks fighting in armour in the 13th thru 17th century figured how to put armour on and distribute the weight and balance points along the entire body. Hell even the Japanese couldn't figure this out even in the 19th century. There are a few good videos on Youtube covering this. I really need to make some armour videos before Charles Lin takes over.
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Nov 26, 2018 14:16
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I'm curious what gives you that impression. I've seen a lot of full Japanese armor circa mid-1500's, and it isn't really noticeably different from a harness of plate as far as weight distribution. They tend to use individual strapping as opposed to points tied to an underlying foundation garment as later period plate opted for in Europe, but it's still well distributed between the shoulders and hips. Anthony Bryant has a wonderfully detailed breakdown of the construction of Japanese armor, and is sorely missed for his efforts.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:34
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Liquid Communism posted:I'm curious what gives you that impression. I've seen a lot of full Japanese armor circa mid-1500's, and it isn't really noticeably different from a harness of plate as far as weight distribution. They tend to use individual strapping as opposed to points tied to an underlying foundation garment as later period plate opted for in Europe, but it's still well distributed between the shoulders and hips. Anthony Bryant has a wonderfully detailed breakdown of the construction of Japanese armor, and is sorely missed for his efforts. Well for one, I learned to fight in Japanese Armour while stationed in Japan. I even had a set of Yukinoshita style armour made for me by Black Hydra armoury back in the day and he kept it traditionally weighted. I've worn it a lot. Japanese armour wasn't made of steel until the 19th century. It was iron and/or rawhide and it was loving heavy for what it covered (a lot less than European armour of the same era). Japanese armour wasn't pointed like European armour. All of its weight was on your shoulders and hips. Lets take armour from both Japan and Europe in the 1500's assuming a mid level Samurai or man-at-arms (knights were mostly gone by 1500 in parts of Europe). In Europe you were covered from head to toe, literally, in heat treated steel. Japan? Even in its most extensive armour (lets say tsubo style kote and suneate) there were large areas that we not covered in plate, like most of the arms, all but the lower legs (the samurai almost never wore haidate because it impeded motion, especially while running). A full cuirass from Europe in that era was ABOUT 17-20 lbs total. A Japanese cuirass in the 5 panel or okegawa dou make, was often pushing 30 lbs. If we use earlier designs, especially those made of kozane, that weight can quickly go up. And the most important thing to remember is that whole thing about weight distribution. The kote, the sode and the dou were all on the shoulders. All of them. Kote hung from the straps on the dou. Sode hung from loops on the dou... European armour? Arms were attached at the upper arm, and then across the elbow sometimes even at the wrist. Pauldrons (splauders sometimes) were attached at the upper shoulder, almost the neck. The only thing on the shoulders was the cuirass itself.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:35
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Cool, thanks for the context, that's what I was looking for. I've not worn late-period plate myself, so that sort of insight is interesting to me. Almost anything's got to be better distributed than chain. 
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Nov 27, 2018 04:24
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all my poo poo's weighted at the shoulders and hips, because it would have been mass produced
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Nov 27, 2018 08:50
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Liquid Communism posted:Cool, thanks for the context, that's what I was looking for. I've not worn late-period plate myself, so that sort of insight is interesting to me. Almost anything's got to be better distributed than chain. The development of European armour (doesn't matter if Italian/Milanese or German/Gothic) is very cool as to how they moved weight distribution and strain on the fighter. Mail is fantastic armour (or it wouldn't have been in service for over 2000 years). But yeah, its all on the shoulders and hips/waist. And its hard to make. Its one of the reasons plate armours became popular. Plate is actually easier to make. You can have non-experts doing a lot of the grunt work with plate. Mail tended to keep on being handed down time and time again and patched up when needed. Lots of historical examples in the museums, especially German of this.
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Nov 27, 2018 14:44
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EvilMerlin posted:Its one of the reasons plate armours became popular. Plate is actually easier to make. You can have non-experts doing a lot of the grunt work with plate. Surely you can have non-experts doing a lot of grunt work with mail (making rings, in particular)?
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Nov 27, 2018 17:31
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ulmont posted:Surely you can have non-experts doing a lot of grunt work with mail (making rings, in particular)? Probably, there isn't a lot of info on it, but from what I've read in "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" , "The Archaeology of Weapons: Arms and Armour from Prehistory to the Age of Chivalry " and "Roman Imperial Armour: The production of early imperial military armour" are very clear in saying mail took a long time and a keen eye to manufacture...
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Nov 27, 2018 17:53
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ulmont posted:Surely you can have non-experts doing a lot of grunt work with mail (making rings, in particular)? Grunt work in general got much pricier after the plague. As I understand it plate had a higher material cost for quality steel but fewer man-hours of labor overall.
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Nov 27, 2018 18:07
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I have a question for you guys who have been at this for a while. How long would you say it took before you were executing all of the important parts of a longsword swing correctly at the same time? I’m in no rush since I enjoy the journey, and am feeling like I am getting a little thing improved upon each time and I am still very new to this. But now that I have gotten to the practice part of “Cutting with the Medieval Sword” and have been supplementing with some random YouTube videos there is a lot more to a successful swing than I could have imagined. I am not doing any footwork yet and I find that when I am thinking too much about my hips then my ring and pinky finger control suffer, when I think about my ring and pinky fingers then my edge alignment from fingers 1 and 2 might get sloppy etc. I know that with a lot of correct practice this must become second nature, and that is probably a different amount of time for everyone but I’m curious to hear maybe how long it took for others for that to happen. When it does all click it sure is satisfying - I can’t do it consistently (and I’m only cutting once a week to check my progress) but getting a clean cut with as many elements as I can is a great feeling. Edit: another question, I’ve been doing slow motion videos to try to see what my issues are with alignment. Is this blade wobble after the cut normal or is that from misalignment? This sword is not that sharp (I’m saving for a slack belt sander) and afterwards the cut seemed straight looking at the two pieces of the milk jug, but looking at this video I noticed the wobble and am thinking I might have scooped the swing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF63H3-SmgY Edit again: whoops, I just realized I posted in this thread and not the fencing thread. I had been posting over there and lurking here - I’ve been at this for a few weeks, reading and watching stuff the first week and starting basics the last two weeks. Last week I wasn’t following through so I’ve been focusing a lot on that as well as using my hips and trying to work on a good structure. I think that sums up what I had posted in the fencing thread. rio fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 19:08
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AFAIK, the wobbling is normal. When you're swinging a sword, you're putting a lot of energy into that swing. When you hit something, that energy has to go somewhere. Some of it goes into the cut, and some of it goes into the sword, which starts flexing in order to dissipate that energy. I think. I might be monstrously wrong.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:56
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rio posted:I have a question for you guys who have been at this for a while. How long would you say it took before you were executing all of the important parts of a longsword swing correctly at the same time? I’m in no rush since I enjoy the journey, and am feeling like I am getting a little thing improved upon each time and I am still very new to this. But now that I have gotten to the practice part of “Cutting with the Medieval Sword” and have been supplementing with some random YouTube videos there is a lot more to a successful swing than I could have imagined. I am not doing any footwork yet and I find that when I am thinking too much about my hips then my ring and pinky finger control suffer, when I think about my ring and pinky fingers then my edge alignment from fingers 1 and 2 might get sloppy etc. I know that with a lot of correct practice this must become second nature, and that is probably a different amount of time for everyone but I’m curious to hear maybe how long it took for others for that to happen. Honestly, I still gently caress up a lot. One... stop thinking. Just do. Listen to your body. If you understand the basics, let your body do the rest. Cutting without footwork to me isn't cutting well. Cutting for me is the total body dynamics from the approach, to the cut to the withdraw. Any of those pieces miss... you are not cutting well. A sword does not have to be a razor to cut well and some swords will naturally cut better than others. If you are only doing cutting practice once a week and not doing pell work 3x or more a week you are doing yourself no favours as you can easily start introducing bad habits quickly.
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Nov 27, 2018 19:57
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EvilMerlin posted:Honestly, I still gently caress up a lot. Thanks for the advice - I have been very slowly going through the book, rereading a lot of it and mainly working on slow mechanics. The author recommended leaving out footwork for those basics and that does feel counterintuitive since before I started reading it I had been trying to do that while swinging but it has helped me focus on what I’m doing more. I am going to try to get a pell set up this week since I am into the practice part of the book and he requires it but up until now I’ve been practicing basic swings trying to get the sword sound to confirm my alignment is right, which is also why I’ve only been cutting at the end of the week since when I first tried it (with no knowledge of what I was doing) I might as well have been using a baseball bat and couldn’t cut at all. I guess the pell actually raises a second question. Do I need to get a blunt to practice on the pell? At the beginning of the practice section he has readers using a dowel on the pell but that is mainly to practice ring and pinky finger control. The only equipment I have right now is my longsword and I have no idea but I’m assuming working with a pell and a sharp sword isn’t the best for the sword?
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Nov 27, 2018 21:16
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rio posted:Thanks for the advice - I have been very slowly going through the book, rereading a lot of it and mainly working on slow mechanics. The author recommended leaving out footwork for those basics and that does feel counterintuitive since before I started reading it I had been trying to do that while swinging but it has helped me focus on what I’m doing more. I am going to try to get a pell set up this week since I am into the practice part of the book and he requires it but up until now I’ve been practicing basic swings trying to get the sword sound to confirm my alignment is right, which is also why I’ve only been cutting at the end of the week since when I first tried it (with no knowledge of what I was doing) I might as well have been using a baseball bat and couldn’t cut at all. Get as close to your sharp as you can in a rebated form. That way you will be familiar with it. If you can... Don't use a sharp with a pell...
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Nov 27, 2018 21:36
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I have, in the past (since I don't have room right now) done Pell work with a rawlings synthetic trainer from purpleheart. It's a bit more flexible than a sharp, but the weight and balance are close enough to feel right, and it was under a hundred bucks.
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Nov 28, 2018 01:49
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Liquid Communism posted:I have, in the past (since I don't have room right now) done Pell work with a rawlings synthetic trainer from purpleheart. It's a bit more flexible than a sharp, but the weight and balance are close enough to feel right, and it was under a hundred bucks. Yep! The Rawlings Synthetics was the very first HEMA practice blade I had. Even Regenyei didn't exist back then...
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Nov 28, 2018 02:19
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I have this one specifically, but their usual longsword is here and all of $84.
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Nov 28, 2018 06:10
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Liquid Communism posted:I have this one specifically, but their usual longsword is here and all of $84. Those work just fine.
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Nov 28, 2018 16:14
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Liquid Communism posted:I have this one specifically, but their usual longsword is here and all of $84. Which sharp longsword do you have rio?
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Nov 28, 2018 21:11
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Uziel posted:Yeah I have two of those but the weight is way off. Certainly fine to start with. I'd be more of a fan of Purpleheart's synthetics or saving up for the VB Technique feder. I have a Cold Steel MAA Italian. I was looking for the cheapest one essentially (although there were cheaper but those were questionable) and almost got the hand and a half MAS but the Italian was just 10 dollars more. Not sure ultimately which would have been better for practice cutting since the bastard sword is a better cutter but in the little info I could find on it apparently it is extremely blade heavy, whereas people with the Italian were happier with the balance.
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Nov 28, 2018 23:02
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rio posted:I have a Cold Steel MAA Italian. I was looking for the cheapest one essentially (although there were cheaper but those were questionable) and almost got the hand and a half MAS but the Italian was just 10 dollars more. Not sure ultimately which would have been better for practice cutting since the bastard sword is a better cutter but in the little info I could find on it apparently it is extremely blade heavy, whereas people with the Italian were happier with the balance. These are what I use to teach proper handling of sharps and to do fulen drills with advanced students. In my opinion they need a totally new edge as it is absolutely horrible from the factory. But they are cheap, rather durable and once re-edged can actually cut rather well. I've seen a couple of the better cutters out there get into finals with them.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:10
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HEY GUNS posted:my company lent me my armor and every other pikeman in it is well over six feet and beefy Have u considered musketeering I hear theyre the real cool dudes
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Dec 12, 2018 16:30
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feedmegin posted:Have u considered musketeering I hear theyre the real cool dudes Plus you can't 'really' stab someone with a pike, but you can sure as hell shoot a barrel full of black powder at them (which imo is much more satisfying).
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Dec 12, 2018 20:30
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DandyLion posted:Plus you can't 'really' stab someone with a pike, but you can sure as hell shoot a barrel full of black powder at them (which imo is much more satisfying). This is one of those things that made me happy about the SCA. You could drat well stick the poo poo out of someone with that simulated pike, and generally with enough authority that they had to pay attention to it. Wars are a rush.
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Dec 13, 2018 12:28
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Liquid Communism posted:This is one of those things that made me happy about the SCA. You could drat well stick the poo poo out of someone with that simulated pike, and generally with enough authority that they had to pay attention to it. Wars are a rush. This is about the only thing I miss about the SCA. Mass melees. They were and still are incredible. Being in the Heavy Lists for Pennsic Wars were often incredible. But there were just too many negatives about the SCA for me to continue with it.
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Dec 13, 2018 14:19
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