|
Jordan7hm posted:That said, and this is probably bigger than comics, I really want to figure out how to engage people in real life on stuff like this. The number of intelligent and genuinely good people I know who fall for poo poo like Jordan Peterson is really disheartening. I think these people do need to be engaged, if only to point them in the direction of good arguments to the contrary. it really does depend on the person some people stumble their way into an identity without getting all the details, just buying the hype fed to them by that group at face value; I know people who have been die hards for Star Citizen from day one, guys that think Elon Musk is an American hero, and guys that thought it really WAS about ethics in video game journalisms. some of them just need to see the facts, and upon being educated about what's really going on behind the scenes and how these allegedly noble goals are actually playing out, they'll come around. I have talked people down from voting Trump. It's possible, if they're just ill informed. This is rare. Uncomfortably, excruciatingly rare. Nerds have a tendency to double down, though, and they commit. You try to give them the facts they're missing, they take it as an attack--like you're calling them dumb. The more you prove what they believe is bullshit, the more they believe in it. They wager that if they're meeting resistance, they must be right. It's where a lot of the "trigger the libs" poo poo comes from--I'm a cool guy on the right side because look at all these people mad at my team. I feel like there's a way to get through to these people but I'm not a psychologist and I can't make someone realize they're defending a hill solely because they already stuck their flag in it. I find this way more common in real life. Soft sever. Some people just aren't honest. Some people claim it's about A when it's really about a more nefarious B, but they can't admit it without looking like a massive piece of poo poo. Some of them won't even admit it to themselves. They'll talk themselves into circles trying to justify how they're really NOT racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever... this ONE INSTANCE of race/sex/sexuality is just somehow different in a way they can't properly elaborate on. Those people are hosed in the dome. I find this more common on the internet. Hard sever. And, my probably wrong advice: try to avoid having these kind of arguments in public. They're not arguments you'll often win, because the person arguing it is likely a brick wall and/or willing to say some truly ridiculous and dishonest poo poo just to rile you up, and that's exactly what they want. They don't have to convince passersby that might be on the fence that the shithead is right--they just have to make you look wrong. I forget if that chess rules story has a name or not, but it's that. You care, they don't. You're invested, they're just taking the piss. You walk away looking hysterical and they come off as smug and collected. For people not keeping up with the game, you come off like the bad guy. It's manipulation and it's lovely and it's infantile but I've seen it do wonders. TL;DR: some people are just ill informed and if you approach it carefully, and show them the things they haven't seen yet, there might be hope. Other people are nazis, gently caress dialogue, punch nazis. Or ban them. If people are just playing to rile up emotions or they're using poo poo to smokescreen their real intentions then they're not owed a microphone, a stage, or your time. slight edit: when I say don't have these arguments in public, I don't mean you should be afraid to just straight up disavow people regardless of time or place, I just mean if you're interested in having an actual conversation and genuinely debating the facts to try and sway them, don't let them turn it into a theatrical production. If you're just telling someone to gently caress off you can do that pretty much whenever feels right Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Oct 15, 2018 |
#
¿
Oct 15, 2018 05:33
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 22:54 |
|
|
Kai Tave posted:And this ties back into something brought up in the previous incarnation of this thread which is that it's fuckin exhausting to constantly be told "well maybe you should try ~engaging in a dialogue~ instead of just telling them to gently caress off and calling them Nazis!" in regards to an endless parade of shitheads who aren't in it to have a good-faith argument in the first place, particularly when you're one of the sorts of people frequently bearing the brunt of their bullshit. There is no One Weird Trick that'll totally own comicsgate and make everyone stand up and clap if only people would hold their nose long enough to put it into practice, and they don't deserve the effort. It isn't the civic responsibility of every well-adjusted person in the world to act as unpaid therapists and counselors for a gaggle of broke-brained nerds mad about women and minorities. Pretty much this, yeah. It's hard to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em--a lot of my family is a backwoods southern kind of lovely, and I spent many years of my life thinking I could just talk them out of it. They don't want to be talked out of it. They will not let me talk them out of it. In that situation, there is no use trying to talk someone out of it. It's needless stress and wasted effort. Some people just refuse to change, and a significant number of those people post on the internet. Like, I get the sentiment, because it sucks to just throw your hands up and go "well I guess my mom's a loving racist forever" but you don't do yourself or anyone else any favors fighting an unwinnable battle. Save it for someone that wants to know better.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
yeah, assholes are gonna be assholes victory is a world where the assholes can't be assholes in public, where they're afraid to let people know they're assholes, where being an rear end in a top hat isn't tolerated and the assholes know it like, five years ago nobody would want to announce they're a nazi, ten years ago nobody would dare even hint at it the fact that dudes are doing straight up blood & soil and anti-jew chants in public spaces shows that they've gotten too comfortable you can't exterminate them entirely (clearly, because here we are long past WWII and we have nazis) but you can drive them so far into the depths of the dark that they can't say poo poo or do poo poo to anyone and a world where these fuckasses have zero power or influence whatsoever is victory enough for me I grew up in a world where the idea of real people actually spouting nazi ideologies outside a comic book or a cartoon was ridiculous because Nazis = Evil was a universal fact, as were klansmen and skinheads and all the other fuckers, they were caricatures, they were the embodiment of evil and you knew if someone on TV was a nazi they were an irredeemable villain just there to get the poo poo kicked out of them and I want to go back to that, not this bullshit where people whine about nazis getting hurt in Wolfenstein I don't want to have to go back in time and explain to my younger self that David Duke has a god drat twitter account where he says the kind of thing you expect David Duke to say on twitter and nobody stops him. All these "ethics in _____" gimmicks are just smokescreens for old fashioned shittiness and I'm glad the comics industry is starting to call it for what it is. Too many people fell for previous -gates, nobody should be making that mistake again. Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Oct 15, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2018 09:47
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:How is that bank fraud? There's no laws against having multiple bank accounts, and I really doubt the US government gives a poo poo about you paying whatever GFM's fees are. At most it might be a GFM TOS violation. it's not a crime per se, but I could definitely see it being investigated as possible laundering
|
|
#
¿
Nov 1, 2018 02:41
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:The vast majority of the right defines their political enemies as "anyone who talks poo poo about my guys", not by their actual political views. yeah, the enemy of my enemy is not conservatives have a bunch of boogie men--many don't live up to their reputation, some of them aren't even real
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2018 07:02
|
|
|
I could honestly believe it was just somebody being idealistic. I could, I don't know if I do believe it, but I could. Like, I was in that same position maybe a handful of years ago. Before really digging into what the gently caress's going on in the world, and seeing what "FREE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" really hashes out to be, I would have probably sounded just like that. There's a lot of people with their head in the sand, expecting the best behavior from humanity and not paying a lot of attention to what people actually do when they get a megaphone. It took a long rear end time for me to get over the indoctrination. The absolute necessity, the sheer power, the inarguable right to free speech was drilled into my head my entire life. That's decades, DECADES of nobody warning me that "hey, free speech could be used to recruit actual nazis on a variety of easily accessible websites." Free speech was this magical quality, an intangible light side of the force that no one was to doubt and that other countries coveted. It can take a hell of a wake up call to shake someone out of that cult bullshit. Again, I wouldn't place any bets about anyone bursting into this thread, but it wouldn't shock me if someone really was just that oblivious.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2018 07:53
|
|
|
Fish Noise posted:
A little of both, actually. As this last presidential election spiraled into madness, I did more digging into how the hell we got here. I was one of those centrist assholes--I was originally planning not to vote at all. Democrats and Republicans were both crazy, right? No, gently caress that. The more I read, the more I realized that context changes everything, and the broad brush of "well both sides have extremists" was loving ridiculous, when one side was fighting for survival and the other was fighting to kill them. Nobody called me out specifically, but a lot of rants, articles, and posts I read here on SA basically called me out, and I had to come to terms with the fact that this hmmbothsides bullshit hinged on ignorance, cowardice, or actual malevolence, and I wasn't ignorant anymore. I live in Oklahoma, so if not for the magic of the internet I would still be in that headspace of "well everyone's opinion is valid both sides can be good or bad uwu," because to me, for a long time, THAT was smarter and braver and cooler than the majority of my town and the entirety of my family, who are hardline gun nut send tha missionaries Trump is the most mistreated president capital R Republicans. Like, aside from wanting weed to be legalized, my mom is every backwoods ill informed conservative stereotype imaginable, down to speeches about how there's black people and then there's (drops an incredibly casual N bomb). This last presidential election really highlighted for me that, no, refusing to vote and claiming I don't have a party is not a good response. I wish one side was better, but the other side is full blown straight up unapologetic god drat evil and if I'm not putting in even the slightest effort to say something about it then gently caress me. I voted Bernie in the primaries, then Hillary in the real deal. I have a lot more arguments with people now, but I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I didn't. The more this poo poo spreads through the video game communities, the comic book industry, the comments section of pretty much any website, every corner of social media, the harder it becomes to plug your ears and hide. I've had to run neo-nazis off smaller forums. I've had to ban assholes with kekistani flags from discords. I've had arguments about whether or not Maynard James Keenan "has gone political." I broke out of my dickweed middle of the fence mindset well before the primaries, but even if I hadn't, this all would have caught up to me eventually. It's getting impossible not to ignore, and it's becoming much, much more apparent that if you're not picking a side then you've already picked a side. Sorry for the rant, I might still be grinding my teeth from Thanksgiving.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2018 20:17
|
|
|
hey, someone mentioned comics """journalism""" and this is what I get when I google Brie Larson super glad that google is feeding me poo poo clickbait upfront as a "top story" this is more me venting about it than contributing anything meaningful to the discussion, but god drat seriously I would sure like to look at anything comics or comic movies related without having to wade through poo poo like this SJW poster LUNATIC SLEDGE gets blood pressure DESTROYED by GOOGLE SEARCH RESULTS
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2019 06:47
|
|
|
my results actually get chuddier in incognito mode welcome to Oklahoma
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2019 21:06
|
|
|
Doom Patrol owns, and still has an 82% audience score despite a... yeah, suspicious number of half-star no comment reviews. I can almost guarantee the Danny episode kicked it off, wherever it's coming from.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2019 10:05
|
|
|
I started to ask what kind of dipshit con runners would look at funimation, rooster teeth, and god knows who else shitcanning vic and think "oh yeah I will totes keep that dude, surely none of these bigger businesses know something I'm not putting together" but it kind of answers itself, it's the kind of dipshit con runners that would tell someone they straight up didn't see what they saw with their own two eyes jesus christ
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2019 10:32
|
|
|
he's also just recognizable enough to work as an entry point into that entire cesspool of a subculture, which reinforces itself like, to convince you vic is innocent they have to prove there's a conspiracy, but luckily, there's this entire intricate series of conspiracies they can point to to back this one up (since god knows this one doesn't stand on its own merits) I had a friend who heard about the vic thing, and got most of his information on the situation from youtube youtube being youtube fed him the "whoa bitches out for white guy blood" narrative, and subsequently dragged him into other bullshit about other things he's into--"hey the SJWs banned DOA from EVO because of the titties" "did you know they're ruining mortal kombat" "sony is censoring all its games bro" in like a matter of weeks he went from being uncertain about vic mignona to being 100% convinced anime and vidja games are all under attack from the same nefarious other, and when asked to defend his position he mostly leans into "well yknow that's just the kind of poo poo they do" why vic specifically, no huge contingent of girls with dyed hair and facial piercings seem to be stalking sean schemelle or troy baker or anybody else "well they could be next, dude, this is what they do" he was always the kind of guy that, well, played Dead or Alive but the vic mignona situation sucked him into a youtube vortex, and I watched him go from eh kind of a dork but a functioning human being to someone I can barely even talk to anymore I walked in one day and he was like "y'know, white people really DO have it bad these days, I didn't even realize how oppressive it's gotten for white guys" he is not, himself, white last time I went over there he was binging "libs get owned" compilations
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2019 08:13
|
|
|
"he's not a piece of poo poo! he's not a piece of poo poo!!," my lawyer continues to insist as I slowly shrink and
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2019 13:46
|
|
|
my friend is running a mutants and masterminds game, and I now wish I could go back in time and tell myself to be social justice warlock
|
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2019 06:17
|
|
|
I don't think I've ever read a big honking crossover except to understand what's happening in the singles books spider-man got all up in civil war and I had to read parts of civil war juggs got pulled from thunderbolts, I had to read the... uh... whatever the evil asgardian hammers thing was to figure out where he went I was kind of half rear end interested in civil war but as was pointed out, I can only be fooled so many times and I went from "actually enthusiastic about crossover" to "just googling to see which books my boy juggernaut are in" to "I'll just hope someone updates the wiki, I'm not reading civil war II" to "I am no longer reading marvel books"
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2019 21:41
|
|
|
Covok posted:Just to satisfy morbid curiosity, you think it would have worked if you try to say it was because there was a character called Fuhrer King Bradley in the show that he worked on? Fullmetal Alchemist, if you never saw it and didn't know that was a character. Obviously, it would be a bold-faced lie, but I know nothing of lawyering but I know lawyers live in that gray area. I mean, I'd have definitely dove for that response instead of settling for "yeah it's just the hitler name, only thing I know it from, no I never had an opinion on it. zero feelings. about being called the hitler name like it's a cool thing. by my most dedicated fans. regularly. totally numb no thoughts"
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2019 00:41
|
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:It started as people aping the angry video game nerd but not realizing James Rolfe is actually a pretty normal guy who was doing a character. It evolved from there. James iirc was actually parodying a few other reviewers he'd seen, he just became more prominent than what he was aping (like how my old roommate had seen Dracula Dead & Loving It but had never seen Bram Stroker's Dracula) also I think Maddox was doing The Best Page in the Universe before that, also a strong influencer of the "being an rear end in a top hat is entertaining in and of itself, right?" genre
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2019 10:23
|
|
|
Retro Futurist posted:undeniably racist or otherwise indefensible I'm not even sure this is possible at this point tbh
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2019 19:49
|
|
|
edit: nevermind chimps are apes? Maybe? gently caress, man, monkeys
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2019 23:54
|
|
|
goku
|
|
#
¿
Aug 2, 2019 01:45
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 22:54 |
|
|
that there's a big overlap between people who hate "the sjw agenda" and people who just loving looove capitalism makes it at least slightly funnier, even if there's absolutely zero good intentions from pretty much anyone involved I've seen a lot of "why is there only straight white dudes in comics" answered with "because only straight white dudes read comics and marvel is a business" now that "marvel is a business" and "minorities have money too" are starting to align the older, straighter, pastier market are making GBS threads their tighty whities
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2019 01:12
|
|